Thinking About Joining the Air Force

[Bullet1987]

I've always had a love for the U.S. Air Force, and I'm a big fan of Pilot movies as well. I don't know, it's the whole culture that's very welcoming and seems to be a breathe of fresh air. I'd like to be a fighter pilot, maybe get my hands on that F-22 Raptor! But I'd like to get some feedback from some others here who may have been in the military in the past.

[Aviation Pro]

1. After talking to recruiters....

...talk to members of line units who will tell you the truth. They will let you know what the forecasts and projections are for personnel.

[nosmokes]

55. what they said and then some. Realize that after spending all that money

making a jet jockey outta you they ain't gonna letcha go very easy. igure on doing the Reserves or the Guard if not active duty for twenty years. Which isn't the worst thing in the world that can happen to you but realise that now. YOu are making a committment now that's gonna tie you up until you're 50 or so. If you decide to do it good luck and soft landings.

[Postman]

2. Go to school instead.

[shanti]

92. Absolutely!

:thumbsup:

[Selatius]

3. Want to be a fighter pilot? Well, read this:

Someone else on another forum probably answered it for you. Below is the text. The URL is here:

http://www.avitop.com/AspNetForums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1873

First off, you MUST become a commissioned officer.

Your best bet for that is to get into a service academy. Talk to your guidance counselor and do all you can to make yourself competitive to get into a service academy. But to put it into a nutshell, you need to take a heavy math and science load while in High School AND you must get good grades with that load. GPA of 3.7 or better to be competitive. It helps to have plenty of extra curricular activities you can point to to prove you are not just an academic geek, but well rounded. Sports helps, but is not required. If you are especially athletic and have good grades, you're a shoo in. The service academies recruit athletes just like any other college. Joining the Boy Scouts and earning your Eagle rank can also be a BIG plus. Then start applying to the USAF Academy (USAFA) while in your junior year at High School.

If you get into the USAFA, you're well on you're way. If you don't, well, don't forget to also apply for the USNA, and maybe even USMA. You can cross-commission from ANY service academy into the USAF. Even if your cross commison attempt fails, if you're a USNA graduate you can become a Navy pilot with wings of gold rather than a zoomie pilot with wings of lead. Afterall, everyone knows Navy pilots are hotter than USAF pilots Smile

You can also get a USAF commission through an ROTC program. The chances of getting a commison through ROTC just go down relative to a service academy, and the chances of getting a pilot slot once commissioned also go down. But ROTC is still a good way to go about getting a pilot slot in the USAF or USNA.

If your grades are not too great, you can join the Army and fly for them. The Army's pilots are warrant officers, not commissioned officers and no college degree is required to become a warrant. But in the Army you are probably only going to get a chance to become a rotory wing pilot. The Army has LOTS of helos and few fixed wing aircraft. And absolutely no fighters at all.

Good luck with your ambitions.

[Bullet1987]

6. Why do you need math and science to be a fighter pilot?

[Selatius]

9. You gotta learn how to operate the avionics and diagnose problems with them.

It's super-geek technology. Your typical warplane in the American arsenal carries with it technology worth tens of thousands per plane. If you don't know how it operates or how to best utilize it, you're not going to fly it. You'd be a danger to more experienced pilots in the air.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Because you are required to know in great detail how airplanes work.

This involves some very heavy duty physics, specifically aerodynamics. I know a lot of airline pilots, many of them former military, and a pretty good number of them have advanced degrees in aeronautical engineering. You really have to be up on math and physics to be a professional or military pilot. Find the book "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators," the most commonly-used text for military pilots, and see if this is something you might be interested in. http://www.actechbooks.com/aerodynamics_for_naval_aviators.htm

[burrowowl]

22. Math is especially good for second guessing

the 'Puter" that may not have been loaded correctly.
In WWII my Father wanted to be a fighter pilot, given his age 22, thought to have too much sense to be a fighter pilot (even though he was a pilot already) but his math skills sent him to navigator school.
Science teaches you about gravity and understand the plane's tolerances and specs to understand how a maneuver might tear you wings off, etc.

[TahitiNut]

27. It's not just WHAT you learn in math and science, it's HOW you learn math and science.

That's a point that many miss when the subject matter area in which a student excels is examined. The mental disciplines involved in learning different subjects lend themselves to kindred subjects. Successfully traversing a math and science curriculum indicates an ability to adhere to strict logical rules, follow complex milti-step processes, and comprehend a structured area of knowledge.

Besides, all four military academies emphasize engineering and science in their curricula.

[cloudbase]

72. Hey! That's five academies!

Don't leave out the Merchant Marine Academy!

[nealmhughes]

82. People forget about that little island off the glorious Bronx coast!

Actually, I had a friend who went to the MMA and made 2 3 month cruises from Japan to Seattle and made $100K a year as an engineer. He left his wonderful Marxist maritime union job because of his wife's demand that he be home more often, then got divorced after a year of full time at home with her! He went back to the MM.

If a person has to ask why they have to have a hunka hunka of physics and math to be a pilot, I wonder if they know what a pilot does.

Now why settle on a stupid landing strip when you could be off in the wild blue yonder with Goose and Maverick! Think of Richard Gere carrying off Deb Winger with those dress whites on, Go Navy, young man!

You get a kewl sword with gold braid on it, too! Oh, you will be Mr. and not anything else until you are a Commander, so no tough nomenclature to learn for ranks!

Be especially brave and learn to fly a submarine! But you will need math, physics, and Admiral Rickover's Finishing School for that. Ready to study 18 hours a day? "Every freaking little prole loves the freaking Navy, squiggle." You get to learn the adult version of that mnemonic and what all those Greek letters and Cursive Capital Ls mean, too! And great chants, who can beat "Submarines once, submarines, Holy Jumping Jesus Christ! We go up, we go down, we don't even f*#k around! Aooga! Aooga! Dive! Dive! C&@ks*&@r, motherf*&@r, Jesus Christ, 69 docuhe bags tied in a knot, slurp, slurp, chew chew, I'm a submarine sailor, now who the f*&k are you?"

Now try out that in a bar and see if the Zoomies are back from prayer meeting or out picketing Playboy sold immediately off base, or whatever it is the Air Force do for fun.

[cloudbase]

88. The frat boys all go around wearing those Greek letters,

but the engineers know what those letters mean.

As for Naval Aviators vs. Air Force: squat to pee, flare to land.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Engineering, systems engineering

flight physics

Navigation

Stellar navigation...

I could go on

[Aviation Pro]

63. Because math and physics are how airplanes fly...

...trust me and don't get this instructor started. (Oh, airplanes also fly with lots and lots of money).

[Aviation Pro]

64. Um, not so true....

..."If your grades are not too great, you can join the Army and fly for them. The Army's pilots are warrant officers, not commissioned officers and no college degree is required to become a warrant. But in the Army you are probably only going to get a chance to become a rotary wing pilot. The Army has LOTS of helos and few fixed wing aircraft. And absolutely no fighters at all."

Commissioned officers are aplenty in the aviation branch (you need commissioned officers to run the units and every one of them has to have their wings). No college degree is required, yes, but go talk to members of the warrant corps and find one CWO who doesn't have a degree or is at least working on one. Finally, the selection criteria for aviation is competitive and trust me the high school to "wings of gold" program is more myth than reality.

[proud patriot]

91. You can also Fly Jets in the Navy

:patriot: Navy brat here

Whoops I meant to reply to the op ..:shrug:

[neuvocat]

4. The Air Force is awesome from what I heard

but like Aviation Pro said, go ahead and try to talk to some of the people who have served more recently, maybe like someone at the local Air National Guard or reserve Air Force, preferably the lower enlisted who aren't so inclined to spew the standard line of bull you'd likely hear from the higher ups. I'd otherwise say jump in with both feet if some of them weren't yanked to drive trucks in Iraq. Just be careful.

[fenriswolf]

5. also if your on this board you must be politically active

make sure you agree with the politics especially the forign policy at the time you sign up and also what you think it would be, i would wait untill the election before you join. do you really want to help the current regime with their war mongering?

[Boudica the Lyoness]

7. My son is in the USAF

He enlisted in 1994. He loves it. He's been all over the world.
One thing to keep in mind is to be careful what you sign up for. It's a little known fact that if you enlist you can sign a contract for the job you want. That's if your qualified for it. Be careful because the recruiters are sneaky as hell.

[stellanoir]

8. read the Stars and Stripes

they are a military site that offers a vast array of opinions.

Be informed, Talk to vets. Go to military hospitals before you make your decision.

Then see how you feel about the matter.

The allure of that life style can at times be a trap.

With this "misleadership" it's hardly advisable.

Ever thought of working for an airline? Or air gliding, or bungee jumping, or something ?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. "You'll be sooooorrrrry!"

Words shouted at me when we arrived at boot camp.

Truer words never spoken.

[rockymountaindem]

11. Do you honestly think you can walk in there and just hop in a plane?

You gotta get a commission and pass all kinds of physical tests, and pass all kinds of academic tests, and beat out hundreds of other people, and go through years of training before you can even think of touching one of those things. It's a lifestyle commitment, not a job.

[Didereaux]

12. The Air Force is almost completely controlled by evangelicals now...

A very cursory search on the net will prove that point. The USAF Academy in Colorado Springs has had one scandal after another for over 10 years becuase of complaints that evangelicalism is forced down the cadets throats. You follow or you are out. If you survive that then your promotions and assignments are determined by your degree of exhibited 'faith'. I believe their is even a GAO report on the problem. It is little different in the enlisted ranks.

My son who is Navy career knows several in the USAF, they swear the stories and reports don't go far enough.

The Army has a large taint, as does the Marine Corp(only surprise is the reduced amount in the Marines). the NAvy, for whatever reason seems to be the least infiltrated, but that can't last much longer under present conditions.

[sandyd921]

24. Glad you posted that

I suggest that the OP take a look at the website of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation before signing up.

http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

There are stories there about the religious coercion in the military, especially the USAF, that will make your hand stand on end. :scared:

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. I hear the Air National Guard of Alabama has openings

Maybe you can get out early if you have connections.

[Speck Tater]

14. I joined the Air Force to see the world.

I never saw anything outside of San Antonio, Texas. Not a bad gig, though, all things considered.

[baldguy]

15. Do you like hot, dry climates dealing with lots of unfriendly people?

[Blue-Jay]

23. Texas?

[tammywammy]

16. Remember, not everyone that joins the USAF is a pilot

I have a friend that's a captain in the AF and he started out as a mechanic.

[soothsayer]

17. you'll get that incredible fighter pilot ego they pump into you in order for you to

be able to do all that amazing stuff. you'll probably enjoy it, but it will grate on the rest of us (but who cares! follow your bliss)

[Giant Robot]

19. I was approached by a recruiter

And considered joining as an Air Force social worker. They were throwing a hell of a lot of benefits my way. Made it very tempting. But I spoke with other AF social workers to learn about the life there, and learned they were deploying to Iraq as well. Considering I'm just a big coward with an infant daughter, I had to politely decline the offer.

So listen to the folks here who have been through it, and especially talk with any AF personnel you can, BESIDES the recruiters. Think and do not be lulled in by people telling you what you want to hear.

Good on you for wanting to serve. I hope things work out well for you.

[rwheeler31]

20. don;t

[AnnieBW]

21. If you do go into the Service

Definitely go AF or Navy. I've interacted with all five branches (I count the Coasties as a branch). Most of the people that I've dealt with are AF or former AF. They're all incredibly smart folks.

A word to the wise, though... you will have to have perfect vision or close to it to even make it to flight school. My brother-in-law is an airplane nut and was going to join the Air Force when he graduated from high school. He was all set to go, until they tested his vision without contacts. Needless to say, he failed that test. Instead of being smart and going into intelligence or another field, he backed out and went to college for aerospace engineering. That might be a good option for you to consider, too. He went to Purdue University, but there are other good engineering schools.

[Bullet1987]

26. You can't wear glasses in a fighter jet?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. Nope. I think they still require 20-20 vision, uncorrected.

[elshiva]

56. My cousin could not be a pilot in the air force because

he wore glasses.

[Fleshdancer]

33. do you know if someone can test after having lasik eye surgery?

I know vision has to be 20/20 but I've always wonderd if they asked if candidates have ever had corrective eye surgery.

[burrowowl]

48. Lasik thins the cornea

might not help with the G forces you will be subject to.

[Bullet1987]

49. I was talking about PRK...

[Mojorabbit]

57. Same thing happened to my first husband

He failed the depth perception test but by then they had him. It was a good career choice for him though.
My sister is in the AF but in the medical field. She did the first gulf war and Afghanistan.

[Thothmes]

78. Based on 24 years experience

in the United States Navy, go in the AF. They are much better then the other services at looking after the welfare of their personnel.

[Wcross]

25. I assume you are 20 years old?

You are in college, right? What is your major? Have you joined the ROTC yet? You MUST have perfect 20/20 vision uncorrected. You must be in perfect health. To become a fighter pilot you must be able to beat the thousands of others who desire the same. To fly the f-22 you will have to prove yourself the best of the best. You will have to be one of the best pilots in your training class to even be considered.

One last question, how many flight hours do you have now? Dual instruction & solo? How do you know you will enjoy flying if you have no flying experience? Go down to the local airport & get a introductory flight. See what flying is all about. After the flight decide if it is what you really want.

(Disclaimer; I have never been a military pilot, I served in a Marine corps tank battalion. I am a licensed private pilot)

[Bullet1987]

29. I'm in college and 20 years old...

I didn't know you needed 20/20 vision though...I guess that eliminates me. My health is fine as far as I know though.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. You could still be an airline pilot, if you're interested in flying.

Think about it -- there's a huge demand for pilots right now.

[Bullet1987]

31. I could get laser eye surgery though.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. That might work.

http://eye.taragana.net/archive/us-air-force-changed-the-policy-to-permit-lasik-surgery/

[Captain Angry]

38. I'm pretty sure that eye surgery will disqualify you.

The pressures of the cabin can be very hard on the eyes.

I think they'd rather have you in glasses.

[Wcross]

40. That might work, see what the Air Force has to say about it though.

They may or may not accept that. It would be wise to check their regulations first.

[Wcross]

37. I wouldn't call it "huge".

To get in the right seat will cost you 30-50k in education & buying flight hours. One health issue will end your career & the regional airlines don't pay squat. DO THE RESEARCH before you go this route.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

39. Oh, trust me; it's huge.

I work in the industry, and there is getting to be a serious pilot shortage. The regional airlines are hiring pilots with as little as 300 hours. :scared:

[Wcross]

44. What is the pay for a 300 hour pilot? 10 bucks an hour?

300 hours is going to cost at LEAST 20,000 dollars, much more if it is multi-engine time. As an added warning to the young lad, it is feast or famine in aviation.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. The starting pay is still horrible, but the upgrade time is pretty short now.

You might have to live on ramen noodles and saltines for a couple of years, but your income will improve after the first few lean years. Regional airline captains don't do too badly, and If you can get to a major airline within six years or so, you'll make a decent income after the first probationary year (though not as good as it used to be).

Yes, it's very expensive training, but once you get your CFI you can have other people pay for your flight time (that's what I did).

[Paulie]

70. Some research

Can someone with no flight training safely land an airliner? Plus: Pilotless planes, overpaid pilots and other aviation myths.
By Patrick Smith
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2007/12/21/askthepilot258/

Facing a serious pilot shortage, airlines are hiring crew members with remarkably little experience. What does this mean for safety?
By Patrick Smith
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2007/12/07/askthepilot256/


:)

[Wcross]

35. The problem with flying for a living.....

The problem is one little health problem could throw you out of a job.

[VP505]

69. If your really serious about

becoming a pilot and want to go the military route you might want to consider the Navy over the Air Force. I can tell you from personal experience that Navy and Marine Pilots in general get better training. If you want to know more about that PM me.

[tuckessee]

36. Are you cool with killing people, like Iraqis, Iranians, etc? n/t

[Wcross]

65. He wouldn't be killing them in an F-22.

The F-22 is an air superiority fighter, he would kill opposing fighter pilots in an air to air duel. Not as bad as dropping a 1000lb bomb on "suspected insurgents".

[Ilsa]

41. Friend's AF husband had to go to Iraq. He and the others came home with cancer.

Testicular cancer. He and three other guys in his group. They didn't give me the explanation why there was such a huge concentration of testicular cancer in this one group.

[TwilightGardener]

42. My husband is in the Air Force--he says there's actually a pilot shortage right now.

(He's an officer and on an air crew, but not a pilot or navigator). He said that he thinks the rules have changed and that they will allow laser-corrected eyesight for new pilots, but you'd have to speak to a recruiter about that, specifically. As other people have mentioned, a lot hinges on things like ROTC, what degree you're seeking, previous pilot experience, health/physical condition, grades. If you graduate without ROTC, you still might try Officer Training School, but that's kind of tough to get in some years (took my husband several tries). You might not get to be a pilot in the AF--keep that in mind if you join up, but there are all sorts of other AF officer careers you might find satisying--including navigator or weapons officer if you still want to fly. My husband started out as an enlisted troop, handling ammo, and kind of worked his way up and cross-trained and finally got accepted into OTS, and now he gets to fly, finally. He loves the AF--4 more years until retirement. There's no other career where people will constantly pat you on the back and reward you for doing a good job as much as in the military, and the AF is the best service in the way it treats its people (despite the recent evangelical BS my husband sometimes runs into). Good luck!

[Bigmack]

43. You also need to find out...

what happens if you wash out of flight school for any of the thousands of reasons.

Pilots are Perfect Physical Specimens. What happens if you have some kind of hidden condition that precludes you from flying?

Do you get transfered to the grunts? (A friend's son is/was a Navy helo pilot. They sent him to Infantry training and he's on the ground in Afghanistan.)

Do you get transfered to Supply?

Once you sign the contract they own your ass!

Find out what the phrase "exigencies of the service" means.

[Bullet1987]

45. I just found out my school has Air Force ROTC!!

Since that's one of the ways of getting commissioned...I may just do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Make sure that your MOS is written in the contract

read that contract with the family lawyer before you sign it

And they will promise you the sky to get your ass in there

[Angleae]

84. Won't matter what's in the contract.

If the military wants to change it, they'll just claim "military necessity" and change it.

[ChazII]

79. Bullet, best of luck

to you in what ever you decide. It sounds like you are a smart student and a researching your options.

[dysfunctional press]

50. you'd be better off flying large cargo planes...

it's better training for an eventual career with an airline.

i've heard that they prefer that to fighter jet experience.

but at this point, i would recommend thinking long and hard about it, and do some serious research into both the eye things and that whole evangelical thing mentioned upthread. unless that's the way you already lean, it could make for a very unpleasant and downright frustrating time.

[PakistaniDUer]

51. Why don't you be a commercial pilot?

I was a big fan of fighter pilot flying myself when i was a young kid but then I learned that usually you end up blowing up people in third world countries for stupid reasons so now I'm resolved if I ever fly to make it civilian...

[tom_paine]

52. Ex-USAF here. My advice to you is this:

Don't do it. I say this not because I think serving in the USAF is inherently bad, and I will address specific drawbacks further down. The problem is with all current military service. When I was in the USAF, more than 20 years ago, I served the Old American Republic, which is to say I served the interests of the American People and for their defense.

Because of that I feel my service did honor to myself and the nation. I regret none of it.

But that is not the case today. Serve the USAF, or any military branch, and you serve the Bushies. Not the American People, but the tyrants who have stolen our nation and their corporate allies. To my mind (you may not agree and that is OK) this would bring dishonor to me and the nation, and I am glad I got out before I was faced with such a dilemma.

Even if the Bushies relinquish their Throne in Nov. 2008, one may not consider the Old American Republic restored, and certainly not if a Designated Bushie Successor like Rudy 9/11ani sits in the throne, keeping it warm between Royal Bushies.

So, that's the "Big Picture". If you decide to go in anyway, here are some things to know (and because it has been some 20 years since I was in, some of this may have changed, though I expect little has, in terms of the base culture):

1) Be prepared for "office politics" on a level you never imagined. Given I was enlisted I can only speak to my own experience. In my time, promotions were meted out on a point system called the "Weighted Airmen's Promotion System" (WAPS) and it was supposed to eliminate "office politics" because it would no longer matter. WRONG! Some things never die, I suppose, and USAF "office politics" are far FAR worse and more cutthroat than anything I have experienced in the civilian world in the 20 years since I have been out.

2) Have a thick skin. VERY thick. If you are one of those people who is bothered by being lied to, you'd better jettison that characteristic because I have never been lied to so consistently or frequently as I was in the USAF. If they tell you "black", smile and say "yes, sir" but almost all of the time assume they said "white". Believe little of what they tell you, ESPECIALLY the recruiters, who will say any fucking thing to get you to sign on the dotted line. If they tell you some bullshit like "you'll never get sent to Iraq", you'll be sent to Iraq. It's just the way it is.

When going through the recruitment process and all throughout your career, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING. Accept no promises about what your job will be...get it in writing, they ahve a form for everything. People that don't get in in writing, especially concerning what job you will get, get the shit end of the stick. If a recruiter promises you that you will get sent to fighter training school, ask him if you can have the form that reserves that slot for you. If he is bullshitting you, you will find out in short order. GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!

3) Better have a very thick skin for injustice, too. If injustice makes you crazy, even if it is happening to someone else, jettison that characteristic, too. You will see more injustice than you have ever seen, and after Basic Training, very little of it will have a higher purpose. I have seen people sent to Correctional Custody (a kind of second basic training, but wholly punitive) for things they didn't do. I have seen people railroaded into Article 15s (administrative punishment) for things they didn't do. Lost "time in rank" and demotions...seen that, too. Better for you if you can look injustice in the eye, swallow and say nothing. I had a very hard time with this one.

4) Regarding the merger of office politics and injustice: Ass-kissers and brown-nosers get away with murder. A brown-noser can be busted for drunk driving (or used to be able to, anyway) and walk away with a wrist-slap. A regular person will get an Article 15, loss of pay, loss of time in rank, and maybe a stint in Correctional Custody or worse. If that kind of shit bothers you, swallow it.

5) It is also wise if you pretend you are going to reenlist, even if you do not intend to. I know it's dishonest, but after being lied to so much for so long you won't feel bad about giving it back. Why should you pretend to be certain you will reenlist? It gives you a little of that "brown-nose" status without actually having to debase yourself in that way. If you get in a jam, the fact that you have made it known that you are going to reenlist will make them handle you more gently, after all, they don't want to lose a prime sucker to wake them up out of their doze by smashing them with injustice.

6) Make sure you stand up for yourself (I am talking about after basic training), and I am not speaking of physically. Lots of bully types in the military who can smell weakness and will delight in making you miserable. I learned this early on on my experience was immeasurably better for it. people who think they can push you around...WILL. I cannot really give you specifics, per se, as everyone's experience is different, but in terms of the stuff I mentioned in 3) it is far better to witness the injustices levelled against those who won't stand up for themselves than to have it be YOU that is being railroaded for something you didn't do because they knew you wouldn't stand up for yourself.

Having said all that, I cannot say that my USAF experience was wholly bad, not even close. And because I served the Old American Republic and the American People, I can look back upon it with pride. I learned a tremendous amount of stuff, much of it how NOT to be (how NOT to manage people, how NOT to motivate people, how NOT to be trapped in a job I hated by credit card debt - beware of that one - massive credit card debt is probably the main reason people who really don't want to reenlist, reenlist etc.), but that doesn't diminish the learning and personal growth I experienced in the USAF.

I met a lot of nice people in the USAF, and experienced a lot of new things. I traveled places I would not have normally gone. And there were many good times, though most of them had nothing to do with work, I wouldn't have had them if I hadn't enlisted.

So, there you go. There's more, but I have probably overwhelmed you with info as it is. Good luck in your decision.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I was enlisted 20 years ago, you would be an officer today. Your experiences may be significantly different than mine should you enlist. The life may be different but the underlying issues I brought up will be the same, and I would bet the culture I mentioned in my 6 points hasn't changed all that much.

[watercolors]

61. tom paine is right, listen to him

Grandson is in his fifth year of six year contract. has become very cynical of AF. H4e know intends to leave after his tour. Here was a young man who wanted this so passionately.He did two tours in Iraq, he has been in Afganistan for almost a year now, a few more months to go. He received very little of the schooling that has been promised, most he has done on his own. He has everything in writiing and signed,believe me he has changed his tune and has seen all the politics involved.He is proud of his job,but not of his country 's leader.

[conspirator]

62. Be sure to read all the SMALL PRINT, or you may end up driving a jeep in Iraq

instead of an f22

[IsItJustMe]

71. I know of a guy who joined to be a fighter pilot and is now a MP in Iraq. I have to admit, I have

no clue of how the AF makes their decisions.

[Thothmes]

80. Serve the Bushies

but only for one more year.

[MagickMuffin]

53. Are you Red Green Color Blind???

This could also keep you off planes.

Here's a link to some tests:

http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html

[uppityperson]

58. Some people don't know they are until they do this test.

Gave it to a bunch of people. 1 guy gave me all the "wrong" answers, didn't know he was colorblind. I asked him to trace the numbers with his fingers, was amazed at what he saw vs what I saw.

[MilesColtrane]

54. I've never been in the military, but my dear old dad was a Staff Sergeant in the USAF.

He had the good fortune of running a dental clinic in Okinawa during the Korean War.

Sometimes it's better to fill cavities than to be cruising over the Yalu with Russian MIG pilots trying vaporize you.

[BoneDaddy]

59. I want to be a center for the New York Knicks

but I am a white guy 5'11", and am 40.

[INDIA]

66. lol! From reading his comments thus far I'm not sure how serious

our friend is about REALLY joining up. This thread reminds me of a couple drunk/high conversations I've had. "Yo man, It would be cool to be a fighter pilot, and like fly and stuff, now give me another hit off that bong."

[BoneDaddy]

74. I know but I couldn't help it reading the post

sorry, but it made me chuckle.

[cloudbase]

73. With the Knicks, you might have a chance. n/t

[BoneDaddy]

75. Lol

they stink.

[JohnyCanuck]

60. Join the USAF and do your part

to spread more depleted uranium around the world so that we can all soak up some DNA mutating uranium oxide particles into our lungs. No fair that it is only the brown people living on top of oil or on pipeline routes that are getting most of it right now.

http://www.grassrootspeace.org/keith_baverstock_23june05.htm

[NNN0LHI]

67. Want to go drop fire on innocent people per the orders of the Crackhead In Chief?

Whoa dude.

Sounds like a culture of death to me. Better check if that is fresh air you are breathing or something else.

Don

[Wcross]

93. Bush wouldn't be "crackhead in chief" by the time he is in the air.

Hillary, Obama, Al or John might be though. Lets not forget ALSO that the f-22 is an air superiority fighter which will not carry ground attack ordnance.

SOMEBODY has to defend the United States of America, why not a level headed young democrat such as Bullet1987?

[NNN0LHI]

94. SOMEBODY has to defend the United States of America?

From who?

Don

[Wcross]

95. From whom?

From any country that would seek to do us harm. Believe it or not deterrence is a way to discourage attacks.

If you are claiming there is no need for the military then we have nothing to discuss.

[NNN0LHI]

96. Name one country you believe has both the capacity and the will to harm us

If you are claiming we need to be dropping 'smart bombs" on innocent people to protect us you are right.

We have nothing further to discuss.

Don

[Wcross]

98. China, Russia come to mind as potential threats.

We need an effective military to deter any thought of aggression towards our country. If you feel we have absolutely NO need for an effective military you are wrong.

[NNN0LHI]

99. US has enough nukes to turn the entire planet into a cinder and you think we need a bigger military?

Thats not enough of a deterrent? You are kidding me ain't you?

Don

[Wcross]

100. Personally I would prefer we also have a conventional deterrent.

If all we had are nukes it is likely that any disagreement would end life on earth as we know it. If all you have is a hammer all problems suddenly become a nail.

Seems to me it is wise to have the capability to counter threats from other air forces.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1281276.html

A bold, new combat aircraft designed by the legendary Sukhoi Design Bureau and now undergoing tests in Russia has taken aim at America's next-generation fighter, the F-22. The Russian challenge comes in the form of the single-seat Sukhoi S-37, the world’s first combat aircraft to successfully exploit forward-swept wing (FSW) technology.
First word of the S-37 leaked to the West in 1997, and took Western defense analysts by surprise. Now, after more than 120 test flights at the secret Zhukovsky Flight Test Center near Moscow, it is clear that there is nothing like this bird flying anywhere in the world today. Its creator, the Sukhoi group, is considered to be Russia's premier combat aircraft producer. Sukhoi currently produces a family of topnotch operational fighters and fighter-bombers all based on the very agile and powerful Su-27 air superiority fighter. These include such models as the Su-33 aircraft carrier-based air defense fighter and the thrust-vectoring Su-37, a fighter and ground-attack aircraft. The general director of the Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Sukhoi Aviation Military-Industrial Complex, Mikhail Pogosyan, is proud of his company’s success. But looking to the future, he sees the need to build a fifth-generation fighter and to find an eventual replacement for the Su-27. "The S-37 program a critical importance for the development of our company," he tells POPULAR MECHANICS.

[NNN0LHI]

101. So you think Russia is going to fly one of those over here and bomb us?

Come on now.

Don

[LanternWaste]

102. And if we had no military at all...?

And if we had no military at all...?


Seems a bit naive (to me) to believe that if we had no military there's be no aggressors to take advantage of that.... :shrug:

[NNN0LHI]

103. Still got the arsenal of nukes as back-up

We are never giving them away.

Don

[ieoeja]

106. It worked for us the first 150 years. n/t

[Wcross]

105. Why would I think an air superiority fighter could bomb anything?

I do think it could be used to secure the airspace over a battlefield in order to allow ground attack aircraft to operate. You do understand that Alaska is a very short distance from Russia, right? You have heard about aerial refueling, right?

Sticking your head in the sand is not a very good national defense policy.

[balantz]

68. Never been in the military myself.

I would advise that you know in your heart (or gut, or somewhere) it is THE number one thing you absolutely want to do first in your life. If you want to be a fighter pilot I would follow some of the kind of advice above and make sure you qualify and get what YOU want from the recruiter. I read that these days you might need to be a fundamentalist Christian to get the really "neat" jobs. Lastly, are you okay with the thought of being in the position of killing people for your "government", no matter what the conflict is, and some of those people being possibly innocent victims?

[Parche]

76. Air Force

Hey,
I was in the Air Force, make sure you get what you want
They put me in SP, and sent me to Minot AFB guarding 'Nucular' Missiles'
TOO MUCH FUN.......
So make sure you get what you want when you join up
The Military is good, but you have to have a true Leader as Commander in Chief......:hi:

[LWolf]

77. Based on family members that

have served in the Army, the Navy, the Coastguard, and been deployed as civilian support for the Airforce, and having lived near an airforce base for 30 years of my life:

If you want to join the military, any branch, decide if you want to enlist or go in as an officer. An enlisted person will not have the same opportunities.

So some self-reflection and make sure that you are ok with acts of killing and destruction on someone else's orders, whether those you are killing are guilty of anything or not. Are you ok with dropping depleted uranium on people?

How is your stomach? If you get carsick, don't count on becoming an airforce pilot. Can you handle mastering all of the skills needed? Access to stealth bombers or fighters, or other such craft, is for the cream of the crop. Those who don't make the cut may end up handling drones. That's the civilian support I mentioned; I had a family member who was deployed to fix what airforce guys broke, and keep predator drones in the air. I was told that too many of those assigned to the predator drone were less than competent, and too many resented the assignment, as well.

Last week I visited with a young woman who just finished all of her training and is being sent overseas. Airforce, but she opted for the firefighting division. She got all of her firefighting training done, can attend college (paid for) while she is serving, and come home with lots of benefits, and already well-trained for a civilian job. She's happy with her choice.

Look at everything carefully, and make sure it is a choice you can be happy with in any eventuality.

If it is, good luck!

[Stinky The Clown]

81. Take two aspirin and go to bed. The feelings will pass.

[Swamp Rat]

83. If you do not have perfect eyes, you will NEVER be a fighter pilot.

and I mean P E R F E C T vision. There are plenty of other comments on this thread regarding the qualifications (such as high-level math and engineering skills) necessary for becoming a fighter pilot, but if you were not born with perfect eyes, it is totally and completely impossible you will ever pilot an F-22, let alone an old F-104. My father, who was an officer in the USAF SAC, said you should find another profession, if you are only interested in becoming a fighter pilot.

I know it sounds harsh, especially since it seems you have your heart set on it at this time, but I am sure you can find something else to do in life that is very rewarding.

[K8-EEE]

85. TRUE! My dad was in the AF & tested SLIGHTLY color blind

I mean SLIGHTLY....and that was it for his plans in the AF, he was assigned to a lot of boring stuff.

[Swamp Rat]

86. Same here.

He ended up becoming a navigator, because his eyes were not PERFECT. Nevertheless, he flew numerous dangerous missions, sitting atop hydrogen bombs. Every time I watch "Dr. Strangelove" I think of what might have been, especially since he worked for Gen. Curtis E. LeMay. :crazy:

I suppose I had a shot at becoming a fighter pilot, since my eyes and physique were great at the time I took the enlistment exams, but eventually decided I did not want to be in the position of killing other humans, ever. So, instead I chose music, art, and academia. I am sooooooooooooo glad I did. :)

[Stardust]

90. We're so glad you chose the latter, too, Swampy!

[mnhtnbb]

87. Hubby is Major, USAF (Ret). Did two years during Vietnam,

stationed at McLellan AFB in Sacramento, CA. He is a psychiatrist. There is only one thing to say about his experience, which is, he never refers to the USAF as anything other than the Air Farce.

Caveat Emptor--life in any branch of the military is NOT--I repeat--NOT a movie. Think long and hard
about having to take orders which serve not the people, but the masters.

[K8-EEE]

89. good advice n/t

thank you

[Blarch]

97. Well, then there is this....

He said people were being assigned to jobs they weren't trained for. He cited Air Force airmen being used to guard prisoners and to serve as drivers and cited one instance in which an Air Force surgeon was assigned typing chores after three days at her new post.

"We got her back," Moseley said.

Others are being assigned to help the Army provide security in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070424/air-force-woes/


Since 2003, more than 30,000 airmen and sailors have been retrained to do things they normally wouldn't be called on to do, like run vehicle convoys, take part in street patrols, and get used to the sound of an AK-47 — the weapon of choice for insurgents in Iraq.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10314346


The training range is Army, as is the duty itself - one of the most dangerous in Iraq these days. But the young men and women clad in camouflage and helmets training to run and protect convoys are not Army; they're Air Force.

They are part of a small but steady stream of Airmen being trained to do Army duty under the Army chain of command, a tangible sign the Pentagon was scouring the military to aid an Iraq force that was stretched long before President Bush ordered 21,500 additional U.S. troops there.
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,132397,00.html



You might end up kicking in doors instead of soaring like an eagle.

[nomo]

104. Dropping bombs on civilians from the sky

Makes you a coward. And don't kid yourself, in spite of the slick gear you'll be flying, you'll have more blood on your hands than a Navy Seal.

[Wcross]

107. The F-22 DOES NOT carry ground attack ordnance.

There goes that theory...........