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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:22 PM
Original message
Thank God We Argue on DU
You know what time this is. It's that time that comes every four years where everyone is picking and pecking at each other over in defense of their own favorite primary candidates or in attack of the opponents.

Where even our closest positions on issues are oceans' apart and the exact same vote on a bill can be broken down into a million different reasons and explanations.

The Primary Season is here and as always things get a bit heated here on DU. I was a mod during the 2004 primaries and I remember how often I had to log on during the day to put out fires.

It's understandable completely that tensions be high at this time. After all we all need to push very hard to get the candidate that represents our values (whatever they might be for you) to be our General Election candidate and lord knows once we're in the General Democratic and Progressive partisans become the ignored voices when it comes to the direction of our candidates' campaigns.

But here at DU we manage to continue our arguments beyond the campaign season. Our disagreements are plentiful and the sharpest of wits challenge each other in intellectual text battles, so to speak.

Whether it's our disagreement over the direction of our party or how to handle Bush and the Right or disagreements over conspiracy theories, Policy differences, theological discussions, arguments over gun ownership or even over cultural issues we're always finding ways to disagree.

AND THAT'S GREAT!

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if we were more civil in our disagreements but we mostly agree on the crux of major issues. That we take things further in challenge conventional wisdom on a topic or that we pick our way to the inner details and workings of an issue makes us all EXCEPTIONAL.

If we don't have these discussions, who will?

Let's face it. The Media doesn't. Their talking heads are slightly different shades of the same exact color. They've made up their mind and their pundits are there to impress their opinions onto you. They masquerade disagreements as if they are being balanced but they do it in a way that no real dissent is allowed to win. Not to mention the fact that most of the serious and important topics that need discussion and coverage are ignored altogether.

Most other websites also ignore serious discussion. We all know the idiots on Free Republic don't allow anyone to roam beyond the preset opinions of the Collective Bush Borg. Most other sites contain either no political discussion or casual political discussion (where political topics are buried underneath tabloid celebrity news).

Republicans and Right Wingers quell disagreement within their ranks rather quickly and loudly. Opponents are turned into lunatic fringe characters whom even their message board posters mock openly.

Here we have a diverse set of opinions and I totally credit Skinner and the other DU Admins with giving a large amount of leeway to discuss topics even if they seem somewhat deferential to the views of the Democratic Party. And unless you're openly campaigning from outside the party to defeat our candidates, I think there is a pretty wide berth for open dialogue here.

Sometimes when I discuss politics with other people, especially those I disagree with outside of DU I long for the arguments here. Those people are fed talking points and know nothing outside of whatever the WH press briefing their talking head recited to them verbatim.

Here the vast majority of disagreements are crafted on more fact based, researched information.

I dare you to ask Republicans to back up their arguments with source links (I double dare you to get credible source links from them). Here people have a multiple list of places they can link their sources from. Sometimes those links are wholly truthful, sometimes not but either way people here are not just basing their decisions on a fat jerk off who is hooked on painkillers and rambling hatred on the morning radio.

I appreciate the depth of discussion and debate here. We're all passionate about what we believe which is so refreshing considering how apathetic the public in general has been about politics the past few decades. The weakening of our country's democratic ideals and values stems from such apathy and when you have high school students believing in high numbers that the WH should be vetting stories and that freedom of the press goes too far then you know that we need MORE places like DU.

I don't care if people are pushing buttons and being angry, I don't even care about mudslinging right now. At our core we have very similar beliefs and the fact that we're not apathetic and are willing to fight for what we believe in (not to mention fight for our country) makes DUers the best people in our country hands down.

If our country was made up of more like ourselves we might actually be the beacon of light and hope to other countries like we once were. We'd lead the world by example and show others how democracy, while imperfect and argumentative, can succeed no matter how different others view the same problems.

We've been given an 8 year horrific glimpse of what happens when dissent is squashed and when people are forced to agree with one view. When the most evil amongst us are the carrier of views we are forced to accept, everything our country stands for is in peril.

SO THANK YOU ALL for your passion. For your wisdom. For your courage to stand up for your beliefs.

You are the beacon of hope for this thing called Democracy and better yet the light at the end of what has been a dreary decade long political tunnel.

Whether it's Hillary, Obama, Edwards or someone else that wins our nomination we have the satisfaction of knowing we deeply debated every single policy stance, every personal flaw, every past political move so that we truly know what we are supporting in the election to take America back from the criminals.

It's a hell of a lot better than being the idiot Freepers whose only debates are, "Which one loves God more?" and "Which one will finally nuke those Iranians?"

I am proud to be a DUer.

-Rp
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let me raise a glass (of ice tea) to you and note your very nice post :-)
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great post
but I still advise staying out of GDP tonight if you value your sanity.

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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Can't argue with that...
Edited on Fri Dec-28-07 09:44 PM by RiverStone
But if I did, that would be OK too! :hi:

Our spirited debates ARE DU. It's called Democracy.

We will mostly pull it all together after the nominee is named next August. Till then...

argue on!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'll raise a glass of club soda with cherry syrup in it
and toast to that one. Good gawd, this place would be boring without all the arguments. The mods make sure the arguments don't degenerate into total stupidity unless the stupidity is especially entertaining.

Posts that dis one candidate or another are the ones I follow up on, checking the facts. If they're incorrect, I correct them. If the poster insists on repeating a lie to make it come true, then I figure it's a campaign flack for another candidate and add to the ignore list.

All of this stuff is necessary if we want to make informed choices. It's certain we won't get it from the major media.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sometimes the spectacle is inspirational.
:D



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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Don't tell me, Swamp Rat, let me guess....
You're not a big Hillary fan? :evilgrin:

I never fail to be impressed by your work!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. neither nor
She does, however, often inspire me. :D



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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's a very positive way to view our discourse RP. Rec # 4
We just need one more folks! :toast:
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Happy to send this off and away to the place where Great Threads go.
Thank you for writing it and for remaining a voice of reason. And for being the Voice of Mods Past :-)
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well stated
and thank you

:applause:
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. So I have an actual purpose here?
Great! And all along, I thought I was just a burr in people's butts. :D
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. God always gets the blame.
:shrug:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R. (nt)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. One of the main reasons I joined DU, is
the wide spectrum of ideas, opinions, comedy and much more.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. I love the arguments
It's the "You sound just like a Hillary/Obama/Whomever supporter" comments that just suck out loud. People need to get past superficial gotcha crap and dig in, not just here but nationally.

Won't happen, of course. But it needs to anyway.

Oh, P.S., your candidate sucks. :P

;)

Good post.

:toast:
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. I am proud too to be a DUer. We do okay.
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cynthia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. and thank you for saying so
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. You've done a wonderful job of expressing the experience that is DU
Thank you for taking the time to express what is in many of our hearts, but with an eloquence that some of us (such as myself) lack.

:kick: &R
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. Very true nodding and agreeing doesn't make for intresting debate...
... In something so importnat as politics we have to have our ideas challenged to refine our thinking on issues. Everybody has a valid opininon, everyone has something to offer. Whether positive or negative there is something to learn.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. Nice!
Edited on Sat Dec-29-07 10:30 PM by lisainmilo
I expecially like this part....


"I dare you to ask Republicans to back up their arguments with source links (I double dare you to get credible source links from them). Here people have a multiple list of places they can link their sources from. Sometimes those links are wholly truthful, sometimes not but either way people here are not just basing their decisions on a fat jerk off who is hooked on painkillers and rambling hatred on the morning radio."


:rofl:

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