Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Health Care Fraud: One More Reason Why Government Sponsored Universal Health Care Is Essential

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 10:43 PM
Original message
Health Care Fraud: One More Reason Why Government Sponsored Universal Health Care Is Essential
Edited on Sat Dec-22-07 11:41 PM by Time for change
Health care is too important to the well being of the American people to entrust it to for-profit corporations.

A 2004 report by the Institute of Medicine noted the amazingly ironic fact that, although the United States leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy country in the world that does not offer universal health care to its citizens. The report noted 18,000 unnecessary American deaths every year resulting from lack of access to health care. There are currently 47 million Americans without any health insurance, and the health insurance carried by a large portion of the more than a quarter billion Americans who are insured is woefully inadequate.

To understand why our country’s mostly privately run health care system is so inadequate, let’s start by looking at the issue of health care fraud.


A brief look at health care fraud in “fee for service” systems in the United States

An excellent discussion of health care fraud in the United States is provided by Malcolm Sparrow’s 1996 book, “License to Steal – Why Fraud Plagues America’s Health Care System”. Though somewhat outdated, the good majority of principles discussed in Sparrow’s book are as valid today as they were then. On the scope of the problem, Sparrow has this to say:

The proportion of the nation’s health care budget lost to fraud and abuse remains unknown. Conventional wisdom, crystallized in a 1992 Government Accounting Office (GAO) report, puts it at 10%. But the 10% figure has no basis in fact. The GAO report merely says, “Estimates vary widely on the losses resulting from fraud and abuse but the most common is 10%... of our total health care spending…”

The 10% estimate has been politically useful: high enough to be credible in the face of continuing media revelations about fraud and to justify the “get tough on fraud” rhetoric, yet low enough not to disturb the medical profession too much. The truth is, of course, that nobody knows the true figure, because nobody systematically measures it… The true level of fraud losses could be lower than 10%, or it could be significantly higher.

None of that has changed in the 11 years since Sparrow wrote it. There has still been no systematic measurement of the fraud problem, in spite of a multitude of evidence that it is massive.


Why is there so much health care fraud

Sparrow spends several chapters detailing the many reasons for health care fraud, and those details are beyond the scope of this post. The general principle can be gleaned by asking yourself if you would ever leave your wallet containing several hundred dollars unattended in public. Regardless of how positive a view we have of our fellow citizens, few people would answer yes to that question. It simply would present too tempting of a target.

Our health care system can be looked at in the same way. It presents too tempting of a target to individuals or corporations whose main purpose for existence is to make as large of a profit as possible. I don’t know what percent of corporations are honest. But any system as complex and non-transparent as health care requires great vigilance in order to prevent fraud. Unless that vigilance is routinely exerted (which has never been the case) the system provides an open invitation to fraud.

The so-called “free-market” principles that right wing ideologues believe always are fair and work to benefit everyone simply do not apply to health care. In order for free-market principles to be fair, among other factors, people have to understand what they’re buying. Health care is way too complicated for that. If you buy a car and it breaks down a month later, it’s a pretty good bet that the car was defective. The same cannot be said about health care because there are way too many other factors that influence people’s health. Nobody can understand the value of the health care (or health care insurance) that they purchase unless they are highly intelligent and spend tremendous amounts of time analyzing it. Few people have that much time. We need a federally run Food and Drug Administration because ordinary people do not have the capacity or time to evaluate the safety of every food and drug that they need. The same thing can be said about health care.


Health care fraud in “managed care” capitation systems

When Sparrow wrote his book our country was in the initial process of turning towards “managed care” capitation systems for health care. This change was driven largely by the awareness of health care fraud.

Under managed care capitation systems, money (premiums) is paid up front to the corporation, which is then responsible for supplying medical care to the customer, as needed. Thus, the corporation serves as an insurance carrier, and at the same time it is also a provider of health care – though the health care may be sub-contracted out to others. Since the money is paid up front at the beginning, the need for billing separately for each service or drug is largely or totally eliminated. Since a major type of health care fraud under “fee for service” systems had been billing for services that were not needed or not even provided, it was recognized that capitation systems would eliminate that type of fraud. Thus, it was widely believed that capitation systems would eliminate the great majority of health care fraud.

But such a belief was very naïve. It is of course true that under capitation systems corporations cannot commit fraud by billing for services that are not needed or not provided, since the corporations do not bill for services under these systems. But rather than eliminate health care fraud, capitation systems merely change the way that it’s perpetrated. Instead of billing for services that they don’t provide, fraudulent managed care systems merely refuse to provide services that have already been paid for up front. They have all sorts of tricks for doing that, and it’s extremely difficult when it happens to prove that it’s fraud, rather than mere incompetence or “clerical error”.

Therefore, whereas fraud under “fee for service” systems manifested as additional costs (for taxpayers or individual patients), fraud under capitation systems is manifested as the withholding of needed medical care. Sparrow saw all this coming before it happened:

Under fee-for-service, the most damaging forms of fraud are perpetrated by providers, at the financial expense of payers. Under managed care, most fraud will be perpetrated by the middle layer of intervening corporations, and the victims will be the patients. Not only will the new forms of fraud be more damaging to human health; they will be extraordinarily difficult to detect.


My personal experiences with health care fraud

I relate my personal experiences here just to give an example of how it’s done and how widespread health care fraud is. Anyone who saw Michael Moore’s great documentary, Sicko, will recognize this type of situation. Sicko revealed in much detail how some insurance companies utilize processes such as rejecting all claims above a certain amount of money, in order to increase their profits. Here’s a recent example. There doesn’t have to be any basis in reality for rejecting the claims, other than the corporation’s desire to make large profits. The insurance company might even routinely cave in easily in certain types of cases to customers who complain. But there will always be those who don’t complain, so the potential for profit can be tremendous. And there is no penalty to the insurance company for initially rejecting valid claims, unless it can be proven in court that they committed fraud – which is extremely difficult to do.

In the early 1990s I had health insurance through the state of Pennsylvania (which contracted with private insurance companies), which was supposed to be pretty good, relatively speaking. Yet a great many, if not the majority of my valid insurance claims were initially rejected.

One rule my insurance company appeared to have was that whenever medical care was received from a provider who was not an “approved provider” the claim would be rejected unless it was a medical emergency. I had two occasions to test that rule with respect to my children, whom I had to take to emergency rooms on one occasion each. On one occasion I took my son in for treatment for a migraine headache, and on another occasion I took my daughter in for evaluation of symptoms that were indistinguishable from appendicitis.

Both migraine headache and appendicitis are medical emergencies – there can be no question about that. Migraine headache is a medical emergency mainly because the pain is typically so severe that it is tantamount to torture. And appendicitis is a medical emergency because if untreated the appendix can rupture and lead to a fatal infection. Yet my insurance claims in both of these instances were rejected, on the basis of my insurance company’s assertion that they did not represent medical emergencies.

The claim that the migraine headache was not a medical emergency was patently ridiculous, since the emergency room physician documented “migraine headache” in my son’s emergency room medical chart. Furthermore, my son was having unbearable pain, so even without a diagnosis of a condition known to constitute a medical emergency, the pain alone should have been considered a medical emergency. In the case of my daughter’s suspected appendicitis, it turned out after blood tests were drawn and after extended observation that she didn’t have appendicitis after all. However, on the basis of what I knew when I took her to the emergency room, she was having a medical emergency. Therefore, it was a medical emergency. Her symptoms were identical to those of appendicitis.

I immediately recognized the fraudulent nature my insurance company’s assertions that these two instances did not constitute medical emergencies, since I am a physician. Consequently I wrote lengthy letters of outrage in both cases, appealing the insurance company’s decision to reject my claims. In both cases they must have recognized that they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if they were taken to court, and they quickly reversed their decision and paid up. But how would most people who aren’t medical professionals respond to an insurance company’s assertion that a medical emergency was not a medical emergency? I imagine that many or most people would simply reason, “Oh, I guess my insurance company knows what a medical emergency is”.

And that’s how many insurance companies make much of their profit. How many? Nobody knows.


The case for universal federal government sponsored health care

18,000 unnecessary deaths per year in our country due to lack of access to needed medical care speaks of a dire need for a health care system that provides access to care for all Americans.

One of the most ridiculous objections that the right wing ideologues / wealthy conservative elites frequently bring up with respect to government sponsored health insurance is cost. Certainly these people must be aware that market-driven health care is far more expensive than government provided health care, due to all the bureaucratic administrative costs required for any multi-player system. It has been estimated that one third of health care spending in our country goes towards administrative costs. Nobody knows how much of that is lost in fraud or efforts to control fraud, but it’s undoubtedly quite a bit.

But in a health care system provided by the federal government the motive and opportunity for fraud is greatly reduced (unless we have a Bush/Cheney type of Executive Branch that refuses to comply with Congressional subpoenas AND Congress lacks the will to respond appropriately to executive tyranny). Without the involvement of corporations, the profit motive, and hence the driving force for fraud, is absent. Civil service health care professionals who work in government are generally trained and indoctrinated to provide high quality health care, rather than to produce profits for their employer. Their whole approach towards the issue is different than what we see with much corporate health care.

Thus, any rise in taxes to pay for a government sponsored health care system will be more than compensated for by the money that people will save by not having to pay out-of-pocket expenditures for health care.

Another objection we often hear from the right wing ideologues is that government provided health care is “socialized medicine”. :scared: Spreading the fear of “socialized” anything is always good for fighting the passage of programs that benefit ordinary people, such as Medicare or Social Security, or any of the multitude of New Deal programs that FDR used to lift so many people out of poverty.

But hey. If Congress dislikes “socialized medicine” so much, why do all of our Congresspersons receive it?


Closing comments

Though the United States spends 53% more per capita on health care than the next highest country, its health care is ranked only 37th among the world’s nations by the World Health Organization. That is just plain sick, and signifies an urgent need for radical changes in our health care system, especially with regard to improving access to care.

Dennis Kucinich, alone among 2008 presidential candidates, has drawn up plans for a single payer universal health system. There is no reason at all why we shouldn’t adopt such a system – except that our corporate media will be sure to parrot right wing talking points if it looks like it might be enacted into law. Although John Edwards’ health care plan doesn’t go as far as Kucinich’s towards eliminating unnecessary corporate for-profit components from our health care system, he does propose a universal health care plan, along with a surefire way to get Congress to pass it: If Congress refuses to enact a health care plan that will ensure universal access to health care for the American people, he promises to take away their federally funded health care program from them.

Edwards and Kucinich have the right idea. In today’s corporate for-profit U.S. health care system, fraud doesn’t just cost us a lot of money. It prevents thousands of people from getting the medical care that they need to live or remain healthy. Getting that fraud under control is a monumental task which has never been attained and isn’t likely to be attained any time in the foreseeable future unless the problem is attacked at its roots. By far the best option for doing so is to simply remove the root cause of that fraud – provision of medical care by corporations whose main goal is to make huge profits – from our health care system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R!
Very well said, and very important.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Thank you
It is a shame that right wing ideologues have blocked so many Americans from receiving decent health care for so long.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you would like wider dissemination of this fine, fine article...
PM me and I can work with you on getting it onto the site I webmaster, World News Trust.

http://www.worldnewstrust.com

This is great stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. That's great, thank you
I sent you the article by regular e-mail and will work with you to get this published on your site.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Only Kucinich has the Right Prescription
for Universal Health Care in America.

Kucinich 08...Right Then...Right Now...Right For America :patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I support Kucinich
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Can he unilaterally remove their health care?
Although John Edwards’ health care plan doesn’t go as far as Kucinich’s towards eliminating unnecessary corporate for-profit components from our health care system, he does propose a universal health care plan, along with a surefire way to get Congress to pass it: If Congress refuses to enact a health care plan that will ensure universal access to health care for the American people, he promises to take away their federally funded health care program from them.

I like Edwards and I definitely support universal care, but I'm not convinced of his "surefire way" to get it passed. I don't think that he can constitutionally take away their health care, can he?

He can make an issue of it. He can point out how unfair it is that they receive coverage from the tax dollars of uninsured and under-insured people. But I'm pretty sure that there's no constitutional way for him to actually unilaterally remove their coverage. Am I mistaken?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I don't know if he can do that legally
Edited on Sun Dec-23-07 11:29 AM by Time for change
I admit that it sounds implausible that he can do it legally, but there might be some way to do it, and I'm inclined to believe that Edwards wouldn't have said it unless he had some legal mechanism in mind. OR, alternatively, he may be talking about shaming them into losing their health benefits if they insist on claiming that federally provided health care is "socialized medicine".

Edited to say: How about this? He could send a bill to Congress saying "Congress shall not receive socialized medicine as part of their benefits package". If they pass it he can then rescind their health benefits on the basis that they themselves claim federally funded health care to be socialized medicine, and withhold it until they decide otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm not sure what that would achieve.
I have strong doubts that they would vote to remove their own health care benefits.

I think that the recent case of Nataline Sarkisyan could possibly mark a turning point. It needs to be brought to public awareness. Maybe we need to propose a "Nataline's Law" guaranteeing single payer universal health care to get people's attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Doesn't the fraud cut both ways though - insurance company AND provider?
The insurance companies and providers are in cahoots (while, at the same time trying to screw each other). Insurance companies negotiate with providers to pay a percentage of what the provider charges for a procedure. The providers then raise the price of the procedure in order to get a larger piece of the pie. Then the insurance companies negotiate again and then the provider raises the price again. Does anyone else remember when the health care industry wasn't a giant con game? Providers charged a reasonable fee, health insurance companies offered reasonably priced policies that actually provided good coverage and everything worked quite smoothly. Somehow greed got kicked into this mixture and like a snowball rolling downhill, it gets more out of control with each passing year. Providers now charge the uninsured the rate insurers only pay a percentage of (on the rare occasions an uninsured appears for health care). The few providers who buck the system fight to stay alive. My own doctor has called it quits. He's been fighting non-Hodgkin's lymphoma for years and the combination of his own uncovered medical bills and not being reimbursed adequately by insurance companies for his patients has caused him to close his practice and work on a per diem basis in the local ER. The end problem isn't the medical care, it's the payment system. The meme "socialized medicine" does not apply when speaking of universal, single-payer coverage. "Socialized payment" maybe. The system has to be changed and it can't take years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes, it certainly does
In the days when health care used to be almost all fee-for-service, providers were by far the main perpetrators of fraud. Many of them weren't even real providers of health care. They were just phony sham businesses set up to make a killing on health care.

Certainly greed is found today among both providers and insurance companies, and there is a kind of battle going over prices, with the providers wanting them high and the insurance carriers wanting them low.

You're right. The payment system is all screwed up, and the whole business is an easy target for fraud, especially with regard to withholding necessary medical care from patients.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. Could Edwards really hold our rep's health care over their heads?
Probably not without one HELL of a fight. But I think his promise to AT LEAST TRY to use it as a tool of leverage is as important as actually doing it.

We need to think about what universal health care would mean BEYOND what it means in terms of health! The very cancer that it currently perpetrates upon the total economic fabric of our nation is like trying to win a yacht race with an anchor in tow!
John hopes to point this out more than blackmailing congressional health care. Sure, it pains me that the BushBot we have for a rep in congress has full health care coverage for himself and his family. This when this knothead ALWAYS sides with Bush's anti-health agenda while not having to worry like so many of us do.
But imagine this pea-brain having to come to his constituents here at home and explain the gorge of disparity between himself and those he pretends to represent!

I'd vote for Edwards JUST ON THE STRENGTH OF THAT PROPOSITION ALONE! Just to see him take office and give the K-street sucklings notice. What a SWEET SCENE that will be!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I feel much the same way
Edited on Sun Dec-23-07 10:34 PM by Time for change
I think Edwards is ready to fight it too.

I have to admit that I don't understand the legal basis for doing that, but I assume that there is a mechanism that Edwards is aware of, otherwise I think he wouldn't have made that promise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. There is no legal basis. It's called the "Bully Pulpit", and he would use it. He'd make
every single lawmaker on Capitol Hill explain why he/she voted against healthcare reform.

But again, unless I'm missing something, Edwards and Kucinich do NOT share the same plan. I'd love to talk about Edwards' plan, but to couch it in the same language as is being used by MM in Sicko and by Kucinich in HR 676 is not accurate. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kick & R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. So how can regular people beat the lobbying system the HMOs have lived off of for years?

That's the only way you're really going to change the system. As long as politicians bear more heat from HMOs than they do from people, nothing's going to change.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. So how do we get universal health care without pissing off the health insurance industry?
Edited on Sun Dec-23-07 09:17 PM by Alexander
Can we even get universal health care without pissing these people off?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I doubt that very much
Universal, single payer government sponsored health care will cut insurance companies out of much of the picture, and they will not like that at all.

But that's the way it's got to be. They are a major part of the problem. Their greed for more and more profits, which they accomplish by denying needed medical care, is a big part of what got us into this mess. Somebody has to stand up to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
f the letter Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Absolutely not :
That's the reason that exactly one candidate is even willing to say the words "single-payer universal health care" out loud. Until one of the 'mainstream' candidates utters those words i won't even think about voting for them
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. do we care if we piss them off? they are not just thieves, they are murderers
the health insurance industry kills people, the source of its profit comes from taking people's money for premiums and giving back as little as possible

the nature of the beast is evil

think about it for a moment, and you will see that a for-profit system HAS to work this way, because the more people who are denied help or cheated of repayment for the help they received, the more the industry profits

it should be completely shut down, if people want to gamble by putting out big money and maybe they get something back and maybe they don't, there are many casinos available all over america, with mostly competent gaming operations to oversee the results -- but this kind of gambling has NO place when human health is involved

they are the enemy, make no mistake about it, and yes, they are going to be pissed but there is no way an HONEST health insurer would be able to report increasing profits in a world where 1) advanced technology means health care is more expensive and 2) the population is aging

if they don't go quietly, i'm okay with putting some ceo's and cfo's in prison if that's what it takes, i really don't care what happens to them because they are killing US and there's more US than there are THEM at the top skimming off billions

i just don't see where capitalism can work in this situation and so far it ISN'T working, with all the money we spend, we have lower life expectancy than the other western countries that do have universal care, where it counts, we are the losers and we pay the cost in lost years of life, the highest cost there is...and all so a few can make billions? fairness needs to come into play at some point
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. Edwards plan is NOT Universal Single Payer. Kucinich is the sponsor of and only candidate
who is supporting HR 676 - which is true single payer universal healthcare. Edwards' plan is a mandate. I don't see where the two are even vaguely similiar. Edwards keeps the insurance companies in and mandates that people sign up. Clinton's plan is also a mandate. Obama's plan will supposedly cover everyone, but has no mandates, so I don't know how that will work. I certainly wouldn't vote against Edwards because of his plan - its obvious we're all going to have to settle for something less than HR 676 to eventually get there - but its not exactly correct that he's offering what Kucinich is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I didn't say he was offering what Kucinich is
Edited on Mon Dec-24-07 12:23 AM by Time for change
Specifically I said "Dennis Kucinich, alone among 2008 presidential candidates, has drawn up plans for a single payer universal health system."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Right, but your article was about USP. And you were answering questions
based on the model of HR 676. And then at the end you were supporting Edwards' plan, which has nothing at all in common with HR 676 and said: "By far the best option for doing so is to simply remove the root cause of that fraud – provision of medical care by corporations whose main goal is to make huge profits – from our health care system." And Edwards' plan does nothing to remove ins. companies from the equation.

Now, I'm not going to dog Edwards about his healthcare plan. I like him and if my candidate doesn't get through, I'll be voting for him and most likely campaigning for him. Someday I hope to sit down and have a little chat with him about his healthcare plan :-) There is nothing in it that cuts out the insurance companies. Nobody's does, but Kucinich. Like I said, it serves no purpose to harp about it, because all we can do this time round is hope to get closer to USP (Universal Single Payer). I just object highly to interweaving the two in a long article and giving somewhat the impression that Edwards has a Universal solution. None of them do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. it just makes steam come out my ears
by the way, if your son ever has another headache that severe, he still needs to get it checked out, sometimes it is a medical emergency beyond the pain issue, as a teen i lost a friend a year older to encephalitis and another boy younger than me nearly died of meningitis, in both cases caused by mosquito borne diseases, severe headache pain is often the first symptom esp. of the mosquito borne encephalitis species and we now have west nile in all of the contiguous 48 states to fear

it's too bad that the individuals making these fraudulent decisions can't be jailed for the fraud, they would be less willing to help their companies steal and cheat if they faced jail instead of promotions and bonuses for the fraud

if you defraud someone in your spare time, it's a felony, if you do it on the job, well, it's all part of the game and won't be prosecuted? i don't understand, law enforcement could act on this and put a stop to it in a few weeks, even without any changes in current health care coverage, if they really wanted to get on their hind legs and protect people

blatant example, at my husband's company one year when caught denying an obviously good claim put in by the company president's wife, they ADMITTED they were denying all claims on the first go-round as an "audit"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-25-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. No doubt about that
Unfortunately, white collar crime in this country just doesn't generate the concern and punishment that other crime does, regardless how many people it injures or kills.

I was fortunate with regard to the two examples that I cited in my OP. First of all, it didn't prevent my kids from getting care, even if I hadn't fought my insurance company on the case. I paid for it out of pocket, and they simply refused the claim. Many aren't that fortunate -- they frequently can't afford life saving care that their insurance company fraudulently denies. Secondly, I knew enough to complain and recover the money they were trying to screw me out of. All it cost me was a good deal of time, and a great deal of frustration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. Then there's Medicare fraud.
Hubby didn't know that two of the partners at his old practice had been fined for getting caught in Medicare fraud. Didn't stop them, either--they kept on overbilling for every patient. Disgusting. Hubby was so worried about getting caught up in an audit of the office that he underbilled just to be safe.

Now he's in an office that is very careful to bill properly, and he feels so much better. Fraud is never a good thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC