My daughter has a teacher proud of the fact she hasn't given an A in over 10 years

[greenbriar]

As a teacher, this outrages me.

My daughter is a hard worker and is in all honors classes. She is Gifted, and has A's in every class




I would not be outraged if I knew she didn't work hard at it, but she does.


I am at a loss as to how to deal with this.


The mother in me wants to go confront her, but the teacher/principal in me wants to let this play out between the student and the teacher


She wants to be a National Academic Scholar and until this semester of her Junior year had a 4.0

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. You could go talk to her--but don't get mad, cause she may take it out on your daughter

But, perhaps you or your daughter could talk to her, but couch the conversation in terms of what your daughter needs to do to improve in the class...and if the teacher says there is nothing, then bring up the issue--what will it take to get an A?

Is it possible to switch teachers?

[greenbriar]

5. not if she wants to continue to have honors for this class

she has a B and if that is what she ends up with, I would be okay with that if I knew that her effort was worth a B, but i have seen my daughters work and it is awesome, If only my students did one half of what she does.

AND she also does extra credit but to no avail

[Mythsaje]

10. Take it up with the administration.

I would.

[RiverStone]

126. Agreed - that's crazy!

A teacher should not wield an "a" like some kind of hidden treasure. She is not conducting herself in a professional manner. I spent 15 years working in public education and I promise you - this is both unethical and unfair. Talk to the School Board if you get no response from the Principal.

[JuniperLea]

15. Excellent advice!

I've had teachers like that, bosses too. One boss always put something negative in my review... the first time I saw this, I questioned it and he said he didn't want it to appear I was 'teacher's pet' and that everyone needs some growth goals. Still, our bonuses were tied to these reviews. And I opted for a lower salary to be in the same bonus pool as the big guys... this bonus was sometimes 15 - 20% of my salary! I'm all for merit rewards, but this bit me every time.

[alarimer]

101. My boss does the same thing

Although I would say that he doesn't put in anything negative; he just doesn't give anyone the highest possible rating (there are 5 total possible ratings) in any category. My reviews have all been positive in general, just not high enough to ever earn a "merit" raise because so many other bosses simply go through the motions of giving reviews and give THEIR people the highest possible ratings. So I never get merit raises because my reviews genuinely reflect what I have done (my boss is very fair, even though it sounds like I am complaining) while others' are overinflated.

[nosmokes]

39. What is this teacher's criteria for getting an A ?

If she has an established standard and no one has risen to that standard in ten years then maybe problem doesn't lie with this teacher? OTOH, If she doesn't have a realistic standard that students can reasonably be expected to meet with hard work and dedication thn she should definitely be called on it.

[greenbriar]

40. she really hasn't established a standard

she doesn't use rubrics


just "grades by feel"

[Maddy McCall]

76. You know this how?

[RedCappedBandit]

109. If she has no criterion..

for giving an A, and she hasn't given one in ten years, then obviously she needs to rethink her strategy. I would talk to her and demand to know what exactly is required to get an A.
An A should be difficult to obtain, yes, but not impossible. Even more so in grade school...

[Ignis]

130. There's your wedge right there.

It leaves the system far too wide open for abuse. The teacher needs to establish grading standards and stick to them. Making it impossible to achieve an "A" grade destroys the integrity of the standardized grading system.

The workplace is the proper place for random, "gut"- and politics-based performance evaluations...don't start it early in the classroom!

:rofl:

[nosmokes]

52. Then It's definitely time to talk w/ the teacher. I dunno if I'd go to admin

first. That would put everything on a hostile setting Perhaps when maybe that isn't necessary? Just an explanation that w/o a clear standard it's hard for students to know what the teach is looking for.

[rasputin1952]

94. That's what I was going to state...

If in 10 years, not one student has rated an A, this is a problem with the instructor.

It appears to me, she has to be approached through the chain-of-command. It is absurd to think that not one student in 10 years ahs not rated an A. I wonder if this instructor feels the same way about an F?

[lame54]

120. That's bullshit - if the teacher NEVER gives an A ...

there is NOTHING she can do to earn that A.
This teacher has no right to make that policy - that one grade can affect what college she is eligible for and can even deny her grants
She has been doing this for 10 years - That's outrageous

[Gormy Cuss]

2. Teacher sounds like an insecure control freak.

A's should be rare, but not impossible.

[TwilightZone]

3. In other words, she's intentionally sabotaging the careers of her students.

If she doesn't give a crap about her students, she should leave the profession.

[BootinUp]

11. She thinks she is teaching them

a valuable lesson I would bet.

[TwilightZone]

22. I'm sure.

What that lesson is, I cannot fathom. Something about life not being fair, perhaps.

[Malikshah]

73. Pretty damn good lesson that hasn't been taught for a generation.

As someone who sees college students cross his threshold on a daily basis who cannot handle the slightest obstacle or setback, I think that sort of lesson is in dire need.

[Maddy McCall]

90. I second this.

The academic standards of intro-level college students in the past five years has plummeted. I see it, too.

[TwilightZone]

95. The lesson is that if you work hard and earn grades, you get screwed over by an idiot with an ego?

Yeah, that's a great lesson.

If the story in the OP is to be taken at face value, claiming that the kid needs to learn a lesson is ludicrous.

[PVnRT]

103. Exactly

I get a little tired of the "damn kids these days" bullshit that pops up from time to time around here. What this teacher is doing isn't a lesson, it's getting off on power.

[Malikshah]

106. Face value is key.

One side of the story has been heard.

So the teacher is now "an idiot with an ego"? Talk about ludicrous.


Are there idiots in the world? Yup. Will we have to deal with them? Yup.

Will our children. Yup.

We will we always get what we want? Nope.

Suck it up and deal. Walk it off. Learn from it.

[TwilightZone]

111. If the teacher did indeed brag to students about giving out zero A's in the past ten years, then yes

"idiot with an ego" is a perfect descriptor.

[Malikshah]

117. That's a big if there.

Again-- one side is being heard.

Or are we into railroading folks here?

[TwilightZone]

118. Hence, the "if".

I have never made any claims to the veracity of the story. I am simply saying that if it is indeed true, this teacher is someone who does not belong in that profession.

[Marrah_G]

121. This is DU!

Who needs two sides of a story!

:rofl:

I love the forums, but sometimes posters do get silly and over-zealous before hearing both sides sometimes. Better a bit of passion then and abundance of indifference though.

[Goblinmonger]

123. Of course we aren't

why, that would be like saying that there are a huge amount of students crossing your threshold that can't handle any obstacles without giving their side of the story.

[Malikshah]

134. Nice try-- but no cigar.

I hear their sides of the story in great detail. Personal life stories that 99.9% of the time don't have thing one to do with their poor performance.

[NorthernSpy]

114. if that's your attitude, you'd better not complain when people game the system...

You wanna teach people that good work won't be rewarded? Fine. But you forfeit your right complain about cheating and laziness and dishonesty.

Because that's the REAL lesson you're teaching: there's no such thing as fairness, kids, so you might as well do whatever you think serves your interests.


If you don't have to be fair, then why the hell should anyone else?

[Malikshah]

119. Good work needs to be defined, as does reward.

It is all about intrinsic and extrinsic values when it comes to education.

Do you want students to perform for the grade? Go train seals.

Do you want students to push themselves to do their best regardless of the outcome? Become a teacher.

The use of "fair" is also quite interesting.

"It's not fair" is a common complaint of many growing up. Life isn't fair all the time. You pick yourself up and look at the larger picture and learn from everything and everyone. You will then truly succeed.

[Goblinmonger]

125. So if the outcome doesn't matter

but the process is important, you wouldn't see any problem with giving all As, but, alas, you bemoan that above.

[Malikshah]

135. Wow-- 2 for 2. The jouney is more important than the destination.

That is where the learning comes in.

[NorthernSpy]

127. most of ones schooling DOES consist of learning to work for a reward...

It's how we get people to do stuff.


It's absurd to expect people to work at things they're not personally crazy about without an enticement of some kind. We know folks aren't going to just show up and collect garbage for free, so we pay them.


Also, it's unrealistic to expect that students will develop a personal zeal for ALL fields of inquiry.

"It's not fair" is a common complaint of many growing up. Life isn't fair all the time. You pick yourself up and look at the larger picture and learn from everything and everyone. You will then truly succeed.

Acknowledging life's irreducible unfairness quotient is one thing; deliberately creating an unfair system designed to withhold even well-deserved rewards is another. It's a big mistake to assume that kids won't figure out the difference and respond accordingly.

[Malikshah]

136. Where is the proof that the teacher is deliberately acting to create and unfair system

??

Collecting garbage = education? That's what I get from the post. Please tell me I'm wrong.

[reggie the dog]

137. the earlier you learn how to cheat the system

the better off you will be. this is what I learned growing up in the USA. I was born in 1979. From what I see The key is to cheat the system without getting caught. I mean cheating any system too. Successfull people often cheat on taxes, grades at school, they use influence and favors to get jobs, and they generally just hire a lawyer to litigate their way out of it if they are caught.

[Occulus]

129. You sound *just like* my mom and dad

:rant:

My parents saw I was doing quite well in school, and so started setting completely manufactured obstacles after graduating high school. Nothing I ever did from that point on was good enough for them, no matter the effort or the accomplishment. When I surmounted one obstacle, they set a larger one. Then a larger one.

Mind you, the entire time I was surrounded by people whose parents were actually proud of their kids and actually gave the the support that my parents only gave lip service to, and so I was completely confused- what was *I* doing wrong, that everyone around me simply wasn't having to deal with? Being confused like that helped to push my grades down further, a result no doubt intended by my mother and father.

My grades fell as the completely manufactured pressure continued to build. Suddenly, they decided their seventeen-credit-hour-bearing music-student son would also have to work a minimum number of hours per week- hours that I had to slash directly from time in the practice room, because that was the only thing I could take time away from. I was barely hanging on in my other classes as it was, and they knew that and used it.

When my parents found out I was gay, they suddenly had a bright, shiny new reason to express their disgust. After giving me a wet ditch to sleep in over that (I was stupidly living at home at the time), they proceeded to put on so much pressure that I became completely crushed under the strain- strain I wasn't seeing anyone around me going through.

Finally, after my grades had fallen from the 3.85 I graduated with to a 2.4 due to their stress and ever-rising "benchmarks" (some of which, perversely, they refused to go into detail about, like a sign that says "SPEED LIMIT: 40?", they decided to just yank school funding completely to "teach me a lesson". I didn't have the money for school (they calculated the "when" of it so there wouldn't be any financial aid left to be awarded, of that I'm dead certain; the timing was too perfect) and I had to drop out. For good.

By the way- I *was* a fairly accomplished musician, the which my parents knew I had potential for when I was only five years old. They didn't tell me anything about it until I figured it out for myself in my teens, of course, because then I might have gotten too good to control and crush. The end result, the aftermath of this brutal mental war, is that in spite of having been in choir (including several honors choirs), played oboe and percussion in band, piano in jazz band, and having marched colorguard with the Madison Scouts drum and bugle corps, in spite of natural ability in music being a gift I was born with, I don't want anything at all to do with music for the rest of my life because my own parents "taught me the lesson" you seem to be advocating.

Their "lesson" killed every dream I ever had for my future. Persons who seem to feel jolly well dandy about this particular "lesson"- that Nothing You Do is Good Enough- need to get out of education AND parenting, and they need to stay out. I don't want anyone to have to go through what I did, at the hands of either their teachers or their parents.

"We will we always get what we want? Nope.

Suck it up and deal. Walk it off. Learn from it."

Learn from it? How about, I learned to hate and avoid people who think that way because they're fucking evil compassionless pricks? How's THAT for a "lesson"?

Learn from it? How about, "I have learned that people who think that way deserve to be stripped of any and all their personal accomplishments, and I need to stand in the way of their personal goals just out of pure, hardassed spite?" How's that for a bloody "lesson"?

:grr:

:rant:

[Malikshah]

142. You want to get personal-- here goes

Your parents weren't good parents.

You're taking you're own heartbreaking story and applying it wholesale to my post.

I am sorry you had such lousy homophobic parents. Mine pushed me, accepted me when I came out, and have been proud of what I've accomplished and chastised me when I screwed up. They let me make my mistakes and didn't let me get away with anything.

My statement of walk it off and suck it up and deal still stands.

Succeed in spite of them.

And enjoy yourself. :)

[Occulus]

161. You really did miss the whole point

The gist of everything I said was related to the "nothing is good enough" mentality, which the teacher in the OP might hold (that is what we're discussing, right?). I was only illustrating the possible damage that can result to a person from living with that mentality over time.

I'm sorry you didn't get it. I posted that to illustrate a point, and it just totally passed you by.

[Ignis]

143. Sadists always say "it's for your own good," don't they?

That's an awful story, but thank you for sharing. Perhaps a few readers will realize how hard they're pushing their own Junior Geniuses and take the time time hug them, love them, and tell them to "do your best, honey!"

One can hope, anyway.

:hi:

[Occulus]

162. See, that's the thing

I wanted to push myself- and finally, once I figured it out, did- but they didn't want me to go in the direction I did.

Oh, I could tell you stories. My mom tried to take possession of my paycheck one day while on the same job I was. And she visibly resented having to hand it over to me.

That one sticks out like a neon sign.

[Ignis]

131. That's ridiculous.

Even in the non-academic "real world," there are means by which you can protest unfair treatment at the hands of authority.

Should we expect our female co-workers to put up with glass ceilings? No, they can complain to HR or to a labor board.

Should we expect citizens to put up with police brutality? No, they can file a grievance with the department, to a city council, etc.

Are these methods of dealing with abuse all effective? Not necessarily, but these avenues still exist to protest unfair treatment. Whether or not you resolve the issue to your liking, you have the opportunity to try and correct the problem.

Teaching children to just "shut up and take it" is one of the reasons we can't get our Idiot DimSon King George II impeached today.

[reggie the dog]

138. from what I uderstand

black folks should have just put up with segregation. It was the "real world". Come to think of it the USA never should have rebelled against the UK, taxation without representation was just the "real world"....

[Malikshah]

146. Then on top of everything else-- one's education was sorely lacking.

The context of this discussion is the student teacher relationship.

[Ignis]

159. Reggie's education was sorely lacking?

Does he know this? I don't see him saying anything of the sort in his post. From what I understand, in fact, he's a teacher.

[Malikshah]

145. "Shut up and take it"??? Where did I say that? Where did I use those

exact words?

I'm all for questioning authority and have been for years. I also know what battles to choose and when and how to fight them.

Get over yourself with this connection to the Shit King.

You cannot treat education as a business-- nor apply the same standards of action (your example of glass ceilings, etc.) in the student/teacher relationship. The motto of business is the customer is always right... that's not the case in education.

In fact, "business" mentalities applied in education are what is killing education in the States today

[reggie the dog]

148. I am a teacher

what interest do I have in not giving A's to students that deserve them? Why fuck their possibility of a grant, scholarship etc.?????? To teach what lesson?????

[Malikshah]

152. It is all semantics. As a teacher, I don't give anything. The students perform

and earn the grade they are assigned.

Scholarships and grants do not depend on one grade. They are related to any number of factors.

[reggie the dog]

153. you are being picky about the word give

I only give people the grades they deserve.

[Malikshah]

155. I assign the grades they earn

I'm not the one extrapolating and getting my knickers in a twist.

[Ignis]

149. Oh, forgive my paraphrase.

You said this:

Suck it up and deal.

...which is obviously the exact opposite of "shut up and take it."

:eyes:

[Malikshah]

154. Yup-- at least you got the wording right this time.

How about looking into the context.

Or is that too much?

Love the emoticons.

[Ignis]

158. So explain the difference between the two phrases.

...Since you're so very particular about the wording thereof.

Emoticons really aren't that difficult. When you reply, you'll see a link for "Smilies lookup table" in the Message Options section of the post. That shouldn't be too much for anyone to handle.

:hi:

[Johonny]

112. I agree

Nothing gets you work hard like knowing you can't achieve success no matter how hard you work? Yeah that will get the students fired up. A teacher that hasn't given an A in ten years is a bad teacher.

[aquart]

19. Worse: she's intentionally sabotaging high achieving students.

This doesn't really affect the C people. It's an attack on the ones who are the best and the brightest.

[TwilightZone]

21. Excellent point.

I simply don't understand people like this. I'm sure that she has some internal justification for it, but this helps no one.

[Superman Returns]

4. if someone can't an A in ten years

than something is wrong with the teacher. Granted, there are times when parents are in the extreme and demand teachers to give their child an A despite the fact the kid didn't deserve it. But this teacher seems to be a bit over the top in her grading.

[Mythsaje]

6. Fine. Then don't "give" an A.

Make them earn it. But damn well LET them earn it.

This is no teacher worth having.

[Mz Pip]

32. I would ask the teacher

or have your daughter ask the teacher what she needs to do to get an A. What exactly does and A look like?

Some teachers are just jerks, but if this teacher has such high standards she should be able to articulate exactly what they are and what constitutes meeting those standards.

If she can't then she is just a jerk. No child should be denied the opportunity to earn an A.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Quixote1818]

7. This teacher lacks common sense

Getting an A simply means you understand the material very well. It's not a test to see if you are the smartest human on the face of the planet. If what you are saying is true then the teacher needs someone to explain to her how grades actually work and that she has flunked at understanding the grading system.

I would most certainly take this up with the principal.

[Zodiak]

93. Getting a "100" can be an asymptote

But getting an "A" should not.

I've known a few teachers/professors like this. All of them were profoundly sad and bitter human beings.

I would never teach like that. An "A" is hard to achieve, sure, but it should be "gettable" by the top 5-15% of students. Otherwise either the teacher is ineffective at communicating the material or has unreasonable standards.

[Quixote1818]

97. And as someone pointed out below. A teacher who can bring more than

the average number of students into the A column is the most effective teacher. If you can't bring ANY kids up to the A column then perhaps you just suck as a teacher.

[Flabbergasted]

8. Ask her what her reasoning is? nt

[greenbriar]

13. my daughter says ..."its fine mom, it still gets me on the honor roll"

she is not really a confrontational person



This is why I have not taken any action yet

[Flabbergasted]

20. Your daughter may be right. Can you let her weather the storm? nt

[greenbriar]

30. I am trying

but it is taking a LOT of self control

[Evoman]

9. Is she in high school?

If she is in college, she is old enough to take care of her own problems and you shouldn't get involved at all. If she is in high school, I would be cautious if I were you. Your daughter should calmly talk to the teacher and ask her what she can do to get an A. If the teacher starts bragging that she won't get an A, cuz that's the way she rolls, only then get involved. Calmly. Like adults. With your daughter there.

No smack-downs, you hear?

[TexasBushwhacker]

12. I wonder if she's just blowing smoke

As someone who taught for 9 years, I guarantee the principal would have been in my face if I wasn't giving ANY A's. In fact, he was in my face because my students had lower scores on their final exams than other teachers (who had given their students study guides that had all the answers to the test).

[bunnies]

14. I had a teacher like that.

I couldnt stand her and I hated her class. She shouldnt have been a teacher imho. Id say something to the school.

[aquart]

16. Why hasn't the principal of the school noticed this?

I mean, if a teacher is so bad that no one can manage an A in her class....isn't that a problem?

[Vincardog]

17. When I was in high school I carried a 100% average thought the year. The class average was

so low that the teacher "Gave" everyone in the class a 6% boost.
I got a 99% on my report card because "No body is perfect".
Talk to the principal about your concerns. See if you can have her transfered to another class.
You have to ask yourself why this teacher does not believe s/he can teach an "A"? Most likely s/he is just a control freak who gets off screwing up "Perfect" records.

[thepurpose]

18. Why would a teacher be proud of this? If she hasn't given out an A in over 10 years

then perhaps she is teaching very well. If I was a teacher I would be more proud saying no student has ever got less than an A in my class and we are not breaking my record with this class.

[Quixote1818]

24. Good fucking point!

You just nailed it.

[Downtown Hound]

23. I'm normally not one to complain about teachers

You get good ones and bad ones, and you just have to take it in stride like much of life. But in this case, I think you have every right to take it up with the administration. No class should be so impossible that a single student can't get an A in ten years. That's ridiculous and any such teacher that sets up a program like that has no business being a teacher.

Wanting your students to earn their grades is one thing, and I support that. But setting them up to either fail or achieve substandard success is ridiculous, and teachers like that really should be driven out of the profession.

[rucky]

25. Grades are overrated.

literally.

[liberalnurse]

26. Has anyone checked out this claim of 10 years/no A's?

If so, take it to the School Board. I'm surprised no one else has voiced concern.

[Maddy McCall]

78. I agree with you...until the parent discusses this with the teacher...

it could have just been something she joked about in class...

Sometimes people get upset when their child doesn't excel in a class, and they scapegoat the teacher. Before DUers lynch this teacher, it'd be best for the parent to talk to her first, and get the WHOLE story.

[greenbriar]

80. I have exchanged emails with her

am waiting to see her semester grade


She has her gifted IEP in Jan...I may speak with her about this then if my baby is still struggling

[Maddy McCall]

91. That's hardly a conference.

[knitter4democracy]

140. Can't. Privacy laws.

Parents and students can't, but administrators can with names removed to look at grading trends. That's an awfully odd thing to not get caught.

[calteacherguy]

27. How do you know she hasn't given an A in ten years?

Did she tell her students this? I always tell mine I hope they all get As.

I don't "give" out As, but if students earn them, they earn them. If none of my students were getting As I would worry there was something wrong witht the way I was teaching.

[Boojatta]

28. Your daughter should tell the teacher that your daughter knows

a teacher who hasn't given any mark higher than C in fourteen years.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

29. How is that possible? I would see myself (as a teacher) as a

Failure if I could not produce at least one "A" student per year. How does she live with herself knowing what a dismal failure she must be. And, Yes (and I am not one for interfering) I would say something to this teacher the conversation would be about her attitude and HER crede for teaching. I would seriously consider a consult with the principal. My BS detector is going haywire on this.

[greenbriar]

31. I haven't looked her her record, but I know that my daughter has the highest grade 89%

and she will NOT round up



I have seen my daughter's work...great stuff and she always gets an 87 -- 89%

If I were grading it, I would giver her 100% and not because she is my daughter but because her work is impeccable.

[blonndee]

46. self-delete. Shouldn't even do it. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

82. But she IS your daughter, and it's impossible to be objective...

when it concerns your daughter. You say that you're a teacher...can you not talk to another teacher in the district and get an idea of the veracity of this?

You say that this teacher "grades by feel." How do you know this? You say that she has no rubric. How do you know this, when you say in this thread that you've not even talked to her yet?

Third thing. How do you know that your daughter has the highest grade in the class? Have you polled other parents of students in her class?

Maybe you should talk to some of the parents of kids in this class to see if they're having the same experience.

[greenbriar]

85. I have talked to other teachers in my building that know her

they confirm what my daughter has shared with me


they have all told me to go to the principal

I just really don't want to go that route

[Maddy McCall]

89. Are these teachers in the same district as her?

Do they teach with her in the same building? I am not talking about "knowing her." I'm talking discussing this with someone who has a daily professional relationship with her.

I just find it difficult to believe that any teacher can keep his or her job and never give an A in a class. I wouldn't be able to keep mine (college) if I never gave an A.

And in 10 years, your daughter is the first to complain? Surely other parents have gone to adminstration over this, correct? In ten years, certainly they have.

If you're sure that you're right, then why be afraid to talk to the principal? Of course, I don't know why you'd even consider going to the principal, when you've not even talked to the teacher.

What I'm trying to say is--and you should know this if you're an educator--you should 1) take heresay as what it is until AFTER you've talked to this teacher, and 2) respect the chain of command.

Your daughter's hesitance to address this issue is certainly a cause for you to be skeptical. She's got a 4.0 until this teacher, but doesn't want you to handle the situation?

[beyurslf]

33. If a teacher can't get one student in 10 years to excel in her class

(ie: get an A) then maybe she should reconsider her teaching methods.

[greenbriar]

34. my daughter says she is bad

but as a person, if she wasn't her teacher, she would be likable and she has great post high school advice

[HCE SuiGeneris]

35. What occurred 10 years ago that created this roadblock?

It is tragic that some event in the past has a negative impact on the present children's future.

[greenbriar]

37. that is a really good question

.

[Vickers]

116. Or maybe something *hasn't* happened to her the last 10 years...

:P

[laureloak]

36. And the teacher has the support of the Principal?

What is her number grade? How does that translate to letter grades?

[greenbriar]

38. I can not see the prinicpal supporting this

but I would be willing to bet he doesn't realize it


She only teaches 2 classes and does Gifted IEP's the rest of the time... it is really hard to find gifted facilitators

[aikoaiko]

41. Your response to your daughter should be, " make her give you the A with excellence".

Getting an A was my personal vindication in a couple of classes.

[pitohui]

42. this is where game selection comes in

at this point (late december) there is likely nothing you can do about it as a parent, except to point out that students need to choose their classes and their teachers wisely

the kid is not getting an A from the teacher who doesn't give As, however, as a student, my mom warned me of such teachers, and i was always careful not to be enrolled (or to find a way to drop) their classes

if it's too late to get her switched to another class, the child who was better at game selection and who picked the teachers who give the easy As is the child who will be valedictorian

you see, school really DOES prepare you for life if you look at the meta-game -- the lesson she learns from this is probably more valuable than many hours of book learning

once the child is in the class with the "bad" teacher and you didn't hop on it right away to get her switched out, you lose, i mean, crap, it's december, if it's high school, the year is half over, if it's college, the semester or term is over, too late to drop, either way, she's screwed

you have to be pro-active, school isn't just about rote learning or about hard work, it's also about networking and learning about people such as the "bad" teachers from the kids who have gone before you and then quickly acting on that knowledge

one of life's most important lessons is that you MUST learn from other people's experiences who have gone before you -- or else you have no choice but to learn the hard way

[riverdeep]

43. I would go through the proper chain of command here.

Meaning first, have your daughter just engage in a casual conversation with her about what it would take to get an A. Surely there must be something? If this is satisfactory, fine. Let it go at that. If not, you and your daughter can have a meeting with the teacher, put it in terms of 'clarifying' the standard. No need to be confrontational yet. If this isn't satisfactory, then the principal is next. Then the school board, and so on. But, from what it sounds like, this may not be worth it to you, and that's fine, too. You have to pick your battles. I would at least do the first one, and have your daughter find out what it takes, though. It can't hurt.

[Cerridwen]

44. Request a copy of the teacher's transcripts from her high school and college.

And, no, I'm not kidding.

I've had teachers in high school and college and a couple of supervisors who were that way. Their take on the world is that "perfection = success" and since there can be no perfection, there can be no success. Their way of "teaching" this it to make anyone lower on the food chain beat themselves into a frenzy in an attempt to please them enough to get a "passing grade;" whether in a classroom or on the job. My guess would be a streak of sadism brought on by their own insecurities; if I were to do a psycho-babble 101 on them.

Make her prove her "perfection" before she's allowed to pass judgment on your daughter or her classmates. Then follow some of the great advice I've seen here.

People like your daughter's teacher make me want to scream. They apparently consider themselves a failure and refuse to "let" anyone else succeed where they, themselves couldn't.

:(

[sandnsea]

45. I can't believe the number of rollovers

Why would anybody put up with this for 5 seconds. The teacher/principal in you ought to want the bitch fired.

[greenbriar]

47. I do, but I also have to be diplomatic

and if I embarrass my daughter, she is likely to deal with things on her own and not include me

[sandnsea]

55. So be diplomatic and get this resolved

As a parent, citizen and professional. It's unacceptable. Period. Be a parent, tell your daughter you can't let this teacher get away with this. If she's as smart as you say, she'll understand. Somebody has to stop her from doing this to other kids, maybe kids who don't have parents with the same interest and credibility you do. This is why schools in wealthy districts are better, the parents are a force to be reckoned with.

[Stuart G]

48. I was a teacher, I knew people like that.

High School...27 years. It is simple. People like that, when it came to grades were..NUTS...............

[many a good man]

49. Does she give A- minuses?

I had professor once that demanded perfection. The smallest little error got me an A-. It made me work harder and harder and when I finally got an A it felt unspeakably good! She was one of my favorite professors of all time. Tho, to tell you the truth, I think she gave As to people she expected less from.

[ohio2007]

51. bet she doesn't give a shit minus either

[L. Coyote]

50. As an instructor, Sorry, wrong distribution curve that!

[Mutineer]

53. If she's that open about her policies

then why hasn't the school administration investigated her for this? It seems wrong to me.

[librechik]

54. speak to her supervisor--she shouldn't hurt GPAs over stubbornness

Those equate to cold hard cash nowadays. She's causing your daughter a serious handicap to success in college. That seems like incompetence. Or abuse. Probably both.

There should be a strict number system that all the teachers have to follow to be fair to all.

If she gives her less than what she deserves, sue. I'm serious.

[rocktivity]

56. Her entire class has the right to know how to get an A out of that teacher

Are you saying that this teacher doesn't BELIEVE in giving out A's? Is there no student anywhere can possibly meet her standards? Or would she consider it a personal failure if one did? Her egotism is overshadowed only by her contempt for the very people she is entrusted to nurture. Have your daughter find out what it takes to get an A, and if you don't like the answer, go over the teacher's head.

:headbang:
rocknation

[blonndee]

57. Where are you, Judge Judy?

What is it that she says, again?

[blonndee]

58. Oh yeah, I remember: If it doesn't make sense, IT ISN'T TRUE!

I love Judge Judy.

[blonndee]

64. edit, again.

I'm really trying to be nice, especially given the PMs. But this is pushing the limits, consdering recent events. I'm quite skeptical.

[greenbriar]

65. well, be skeptical all you want

I don't lie


if you don't like or agree with what i say, don't post on my threads, but I have been open and my daughter is FIRST in my world

everyone here knows it


and don't give the impression that I PMed you more than once.

[blonndee]

67. Didn't give any impression--YOU PMed me. And you don't lie? Hmmm..

Good luck telling me what threads to post on, too.

[greenbriar]

72. ONE Pm

and if you want to judge me by all means do


but do it openly


the snarkyness is childish


Mythsaje and I are fine

I explained myself clearly


I clearly was at fault for my oversight

it is done and over

[blonndee]

77. You are right. I should have said, PM. I still retain my opinion as I'm sure do others

regarding your own judgment and character. I have an open mind and haven't formed conclusions; however, I'm not as willing as some to accept anectodal "evidence" from you as meaningful as I might have before, given recent events.

Unfortunately, it's not "done and over." At least not in the, to use an old cliche, court of public opinion.

[greenbriar]

79. thats your right!

Thanks

[Marrah_G]

124. "if you don't like or agree with what i say, don't post on my thread"

That was a typo or an error, right?

Anyway, I think you should go talk to her face to face. Then decide where to go from there.

[Dorian Gray]

160. Ditto

Complaining about her here will do little to help Greenbriar or her daughter. Talk to the teacher one on one. Respectfully. As you would hope any concerned parent would come and talk to you. See what you can do, and see what her point of view is.

Maybe your daughter is just having trouble in her class.

Until you talk to the teacher, you don't know whether your daughter is coloring the situation slightly to benefit her. (Not even on purpose. People do that all the time subconsciously.)

[Occulus]

133. Well, thinking people hate her for precisely that same reason

I see things happen that are true and don't make sense every day of my life. Judge Judy is a bad judge, in a lot of ways. Thank god that crusty dried-up old bag o' bones doesn't preside over an actual courtroom...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. I had a professor like that in college

After the first midterm in a required philosophy course (it wasn't his course in particular that was required; we just had to take four credits in the philosophy department), he told us that he didn't think any undergraduate had enough depth of thought to get an A in philosophy.

At that point, he was an insecure first-year professor, and his pronouncement had the effect of encouraging the students to blow off the class.

I know about and dislike grade inflation, but if NO ONE ever gets an A, then there's something wrong with the teacher. I taught for 11 years, and although there were some years when I gave very few A's, there were always SOME outstanding students.

[dailykoff]

60. Could be a line.

You know how teachers find a line that seems to get a response and then roll it out whenever they need it. Or a misinterpretation. I'd start by asking her if it was accurate, then take it from there.

[blonndee]

61. Could be a line, in more ways than one, don'tcha think? n/a

[AlCzervik]

62. why do you have to confront her, why can't you just have a meeting with her

and start with out something like "What can my daughter do to raise her grade up in your class?", imo that opens the door to having a conversation, btw i'm not saying your daughter isn't working hard enough, i'm trying to give a way to open up the conversation, ask an open ended question and you'll usually get an answer.

[greenbriar]

63. I think I will request a meeting with her in Jan

I have done the email colleague route and really didn't get a satisfactory result

[Generic Brad]

66. I've run into professors who said similar things

And I earned A's from every one of them. Near impossible expectations are still possible. It may have been said merely to motivate a roomful of over achievers.

[greenbriar]

69. my daughter has requested and completed several extra credit assignments

one was to create a hand drawn pictoral essay of Julius Ceasar.

I thought it was really awesome, she only got 1/2 credit because the teacher (not an art teacher) didn't like her drawings.


Daughter even put color symbolism in each character and a matrix to explain the symbolism

It far exceeds anything any of my students have ever done


I took it to show my collegues and they too thought it was great.



I think this teacher may be better suited to teach college

[Generic Brad]

83. It sounds like your daughter is suited for grad school

Bets of luck to her.

[greenbriar]

86. she used to want to be a doctor

now she wants to be a criminal forensic scientist

[NC_Nurse]

68. Has your daughter talked to her?

I think it would probably be good for her to speak with the teacher first. Tell her about her goals and ask her what she needs to do to get an A.
If the teacher is not responsive, then you could speak to her yourself or to the principal.

I think kids should learn to stick up for themselves whenever possible. They will have unfair situations to deal with throughout life and mom can't/shouldn't
always step in. There are a lot of helicopter parents out there whose kids aren't learning how to fend for themselves.

[greenbriar]

70. They talk about post college quite a bit

daughter says that if she were not her teacher, she would love getting advice from her

[NC_Nurse]

87. Why can't she get advice from her?

What's the problem with asking her for advice about college or post college?

[greenbriar]

88. nothing...She says the lady has good advice

I think there is just a mental road block that needs to be resolved

[MikeDuffy]

71. Perhaps it is just as well for your daughter to not obsess about grades.

As a freshman at Rice University in 1966, a fellow student who studied in the residential college's study room adjacent to our library along with me often from 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning eventually shot himself in our attic coffeehouse, and the rumor was that he could not keep his grades up to the standards he was accustomed to before college.

Because suicides due to competitive pressures were a historical and on-going problem, Rice had tried to deemphasize grades to some extent by not calculating GPA's for students and not using A, B, C etc but 1, 2, 3 (on the other hand, they had + and - modifiers to these same grades, so I am sure there were many struggling for as many 1+'s as they could -- I only made one 1+ in four years).

As a last comment I would emphasize the importance of learning "critical thinking" skills -- I for one am still struggling to learn them...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

96. I remember when Rice was infamous for its high suicide rate.

Since it's a highly competitive technical school.

A teacher who gives no As sounds like the professors at the law school I went to.

This is a huge school by grad school standards -- over 1,000 students. As were quite rare. I didn't get any, and all my life school and college had been mostly easy.

[Malikshah]

74. Extrinsic vs. Intrinsic Learning. I'll opt for the latter. The former

is vacuous and fleeting.

As my dad would often ask me when I was confronted with this sort of situation...

What did you learn from that?

*That* was the lesson that stuck. The "A"s sure as hell are long forgotten.

[greenbriar]

75. one of the reason's I have not interjected myself yet

but I hate to see her beat herself up


Hubby and I have told her she will have teachers like this in college, and sometimes it is best to just know you have done the best you can and thats all you can do.


But...the mom in me wants to fix it

[Malikshah]

107. I agree-- but if she has to wait until college to get folks like this

then count her lucky.

I've still got scars from a mean 4th grade teacher. But the fact is that I remember it and remember the advice given and moved on.

Good luck with all that. I am not in the position you are in, but I've been in the one your child has been in.

Things have a way of working out.

[proud patriot]

81. You can always discuss with the Principal

How best to resolve your anxiety about this issue ..

That is how I would go forward .

[greenbriar]

84. I would hate it if someone went to my principal over me

I just don't know how to approach her about this

and part of me says my kid is 16 and needs to start dealing with things like this on her own



the mom in me wants to protect her from everything but I know I can't


I do know she takes her studies very seriously and this hurts me

[proud patriot]

92. Then I would write the teacher a letter

perhaps if it's written it'll be easier to
ask why A's are so difficult and what you
can do as a parent to support your child .

:hi:

[DFW]

98. Sounds like a teacher who is proud of bring a bad teacher.

We had some of those in Germany, too. It's not limited to the USA.

[readmoreoften]

99. I can't stand teachers like this. I give "A"s to all people who work their asses off.

Egomaniacial freaks. Pet peeve of mine.

[Hippo_Tron]

100. I honestly don't see this as a horrible thing

If she has all A's and one B+, colleges are going to look at that one B+ and say "That must have been an extremely difficult class and not only does she get excellent grades, but challenges herself by taking classes where she isn't guaranteed to get an A." They're going to want the kids who challenge themselves and get a 3.9 over the kids who don't challenge themselves and get a 4.0.

I'm sure it's extremely frustrating for your daughter right now, especially since it does sound like she certainly deserves the A. I also think it's important for every kid to learn that getting a B isn't the worst thing in the world. But hey I only graduated with a 3.6 so maybe that's just me.

[BlueIris]

102. You can't be the first person irritated by her arrogance or misconduct.

Before you approach the teacher (or an administrator) maybe you should put your ear to the ground and see who else has noticed this and/or complained, what they found out and how you might want to proceed based on what the gossip turns up.

[Stuart G]

105. This post is right on...

This teacher is already well known by the principal and the administrators. My guess is that she is probably a pretty good teacher with a bad attitude......That happens often. And they have placated her too. Yet this attitude is ...nuts. even if she is a good teacher.

..So the boses need to talk to her again...and..She needs to give some As...It is only fair. So if she doesn't give some As..then she should be given the worst classes to teach, for a year or so. Then she will give some As..that I guarantee you..

..This person is unfair to the students who put out so much that they have earned an A. And I believe that there are always a few students in the whole group taking the class..usually one or two...and the students know who these people are....who really deserve an A.. ......at least that was my experience from teaching more than 25 years............

[NorthernSpy]

104. I diagnose a severe case of Humanities Rigor Envy Syndrome...

It's a lot harder to play these kinds of games when you're teaching math, or anything for which the grading criteria are more objective than not.

Some people in the humanities cast an envious eye over the sciences' reputation among students for being academically challenging. But they fail to notice another important attribute of math and science teaching: a healthy focus on objective criteria in grading. Attempts to toughen up the humanities can't rely on objective criteria to the same extent, and so some people come up with grading schemes that are irrational, arbitrary, vague, ego-driven and unfair.

[Wizard777]

108. Guard that A ! Guard that A ! Don't let them kids anywhere near it.

They might touch it and get it all sticky. :dunce: :crazy:

[mnhtnbb]

110. My son was assigned an AP class jr year with a teacher who was known

to give best grades to track students (he's the track coach)and hardly anyone else got an A.

We asked for him to be reassigned to the other AP US history class--same period--and I asked the principal
to divulge the grade distribution for the two teachers for the past three years. The principal refused--on the grounds that was 'personnel' info (in a public school)and my son's request was denied. He got no better than B's the whole year, even though he's always had A's in all his history classes.

Public schools, by and large, have no accountability--and I'm a product and defender of public schools.
Too much of this kind of thing goes on and is not addressed by principals.

[Vickers]

113. Can't bring any of her students up to "A" level, huh?

She should be fired for incompetency.

[JeanGrey]

115. If your daughter is doing "A" work and is not getting "A" credit

then this teacher is way out of line! You should talk to her. This could bring down your daughter's average because her teacher is a jerk.

[Pale Blue Dot]

122. She's proud of the fact that she sucks as a teacher? nt

[LeftyMom]

128. She needs a new job. Students are not the enemy, and sabotoging their GPA is not a victory.

Better grades will improve chances of college admission and scholarships. Which isn't to say they should be given away like candy, but students should have the opportunity to earn them, and grading should be fair.

Unfortunately gifted programs are full of these teachers who think that it's their moral obligation to bring bright students down a peg, on spurious grounds if they must.

Please talk to the administration. Even if nothing gets done about your daughter's current grade (and I would emphasize the overall problem rather than your daughter's grade, and get other parents involved if you can,) they might be able to get her to use more objective grading standards in the future. I would also insist on a transfer for my child, to prevent retaliation. (Then again, impatience with this sort of shit is one of the reasons I homeschool.)

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

139. Do teachers like this not realize that their silly pride is standing in the

way of kids getting into the schools they want, getting the scholarships they need, planning for the future?

This is selfishness, pure and simple.

[knitter4democracy]

141. I was a hard grader when I taught. Still, no As is ridiculous.

I could never have gotten away with that, either.

I would tell my students at the beginning of the year that I didn't give A+ grades. They'd whine and howl, but I would tell them of the three students who earned A+ semester grades for me. Then they'd understand.

I graded by feel, too, but I usually gave out clear standards. I had a list of mechanical errors I'd look for so they knew to edit for those, and I had a flexible content rubric so they knew what I was looking for. Usually, students kicked themselves out of A range from mechanical error.

This is what I would do: I would request a meeting with the teacher, the principal, your daughter, and yourself. Have your daughter bring in all of her work for that class, the extra credit and all. Ask the principal to review the work as well as whatever the teacher passed out. If she can't defend her grading decision to her principal, and she most likely can't, things will happen. If she retaliates against your daughter, make sure she reports it. No principal wants this kind of headache to deal with and will be watching the teacher closely.

Setting kids up for failure is not okay. That's not her job, and she's making her students rebel against her. That's bad.

[MilesColtrane]

144. Check this to see if she's grading accurately.

Look at your daughter's test scores.

If you can find a test in which she answered 91% or more of the questions correctly and did not receive an A for it, then you would have evidence of the teacher's skewing to bring to the school board.

Of course, with essay questions and the like it won't be as easy to prove.

[Blackhatjack]

147. That reflects badly on her teaching skills.... No Merit Raise For Her!

Would you want a teacher in your school who is unable to teach well enough for even one of her students to get an 'A'??

If this is an ego problem, then she needs to take a leave of absence until she fixes HER PROBLEM.

Teachers have great influence and power over students, for both good and evil.

[JCMach1]

150. Insist that the principal switch her teacher NOW...!

I had a guidance couselor screw-up my NM Scholarship... Don't let this happen to your daughter...!

[greenbriar]

151. I just did

We have a meeting Jan 2nd

[JCMach1]

164. Excellent... I hope that will help...

As many people have expressed here... a teacher who doesn't give A's for 10 years has not been doing her job.

The problem is the teacher, not your child.

[proud2BlibKansan]

156. That's outrageous

Yes, you should definitely complain.

[greenbriar]

157. I really wanted her to work this out...there will be teachers like this in college

but after meeting this woman, and talking to teachers in My building who know her they have all said I should become involved


SO

we have a meeting Jan 2

I have demanded to see all of her ESIS grade printouts and such

[Hoof Hearted]

163. Awesome. I know it was a hard decision but I'm glad you are doing this.

Most University level instructors and Professors don't try to run this kind of scam, they're usually more mature than that and under pressure to please their customers.

I think you are doing the right thing. I'm happy for you and your daughter. I know you said she's the non-confrontational type, and I'm sure that's worked very well for her throughout her short life. She's been a model student, after all, so prior to this there's been no need for confrontation.

She isn't in college yet, and at this point I think there is one very important lesson she needs to learn from you. Sometimes, even when you don't want to, you have to fight. You have to be willing to stand up and say "This is wrong". Even when you are unsure of the outcome, sometimes you have to at least try to make right an obvious wrong whether it's on behalf of yourself, your family or others.

Best of luck to you. Go into that meeting understanding that you are meeting a bully. Go into that meeting knowing that you are the better person.

:hug: :hug: :hug: