BUSH DID IT?? Negroponte Warned CIA Against Destroying the Torture Tapes

[L. Coyote]

Did the Decider directly participate in torture?

If everyone said, "Do NOT destroy the tapes" it becomes more obvious that BUSH gave the order to destroy them.

Was there a live feed to the WH Op Center and Langley during the Torture?

That would explain the rash of crimes to "Cover Up the Cover Up."

Negroponte Warned CIA Against Destroying the Torture Tapes
By Spencer Ackerman - December 17, 2007 - http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004925.php

Tally it up. Advising against destruction were: Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) with Nancy Pelosi "concurring," Goss as both a congressman and CIA director, Harriet Miers, anonymous DOJ officials, and Negroponte. Those with an appetite for destruction were, of course, Rodriguez and, reportedly, lawyers within the CIA's operations directorate.

Add another name to the wall of fame. Newsweek reports (http://www.newsweek.com/id/78065) that John Negroponte -- Mike McConnell's predecessor as director of national intelligence -- told then-CIA Director Porter Goss not to destroy the torture tapes. That instruction, apparently documented, is going to be crucial: advocates for Jose Rodriguez, the CIA official who destroyed the tapes in 2005, have said that they did not receive clear instructions from their superiors firmly telling them to preserve the recordings.

In the summer of 2005, then CIA director Porter Goss met with then national intelligence director John Negroponte to discuss a highly sensitive matter: what to do about the existence of videotapes documenting the use of controversial interrogation methods, apparently includ­ing waterboarding, on two key Al Qaeda suspects. The tapes were eventually de­stroyed, and congressional investigators are now trying to piece together an extensive paper trail documenting how and why it happened.

One crucial document they'll surely want to examine: a memo written after the meeting between Goss and Negroponte, which records that Negroponte strongly advised against destroying the tapes, ....

[MADem]

1. Nope. That idiot isn't stupid.

He's spent his entire LIFE getting other people to do his work FOR him. He's very clever in that regard.

Cheney gave the order.

IMO.

[L. Coyote]

2. Deja Vu all over again: Nixon Ordering Tapes Destroyed.

Classic moments in Republican Political Crimes = Haldeman: "Yeah. But you have to get somebody to do it."

Nixon ordering Haldeman to break into the Brookings Institution.

N: They have a lot of material. I want--the way I want that handled Bob is get it over. I want Brooking. Just break in. Break in and take it out. You understand.

H: Yeah. But you have to get somebody to do it.

N: Well, you--that’s what I’m just telling you. Now don’t discuss it here. You’re to break into the place, rifle the files, and bring them out.

H: I don’t have any problem with breaking in.

N: Just go in and take them. Go in around 8 or 9 o’clock. That’s right. You go in and inspect and clean it out.

Nixon Ordering Tapes Destroyed.

N: Maybe we ought to keep the the whole goddamn campaign period. We can prove we never discussed anything pertaining to the crummy Watergate. When you think of all the discussions we've had in this room, that goddamn thing never came up.

H: Who you going to prove it to? Could also argue that, you know

N: That we destroyed stuff?

H: Well, you discussed that.

That afternoon Haldeman told Nixon he would review the tapes.

H: Pull out what we want, and get rid of the rest of it. And we want to get rid of the rest of it,

N: That's right.

Nixon Discussing Pardoning Subordinates for their Crimes.

N: What I mean to say is this. We're talking in the confidence of this room. I don't give a what comes out on you or John or even on poor, damn, dumb John Mitchell. There is going to be a total pardon.

H: Don't, don't even say that. (Haldeman is now aware of the secret taping system)

N: You know it You know it and I know it.

H: No, don't say that.

Nixon ordering investigation of Jews.

N: Please get the names of the Jews. You know, the big Jewish contributors to the Democrats. Could you please investigate some of the -------. (expletive deleted)

MORE: "I’m Not a Crook"
The Public Face and Private Political Reality of Richard M. Nixon
http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/discourse.html

[MADem]

4. The irony there is, if Nixon HAD destroyed THOSE tapes, as Pat

urged him to do, we'd never have this information. We'd never know his full mendacity. An argument could have been made through the mists of time that he was unfairly persecuted by rabidly antiwar Democrats.

Thus is the Lesson Of Nixon, you see. Cheney was in Nixon's WH, he knew the score and remembered the outcomes. Lesson One--Destroy the tapes. Lesson Two--Stonewall. Lesson Three--Deny, deny, and deny some more.

[L. Coyote]

5. We saw the lessons in action in Iran-Contra. Lie to protect trhe leaders.

Study this thread. They are still working full time to hide documentation, even reclassifying material on the shelves of libraries

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

Negroponte has been part of all this since Honduras.

[MADem]

9. I'll wager none of the charges proposed are ever levelled against the guy.

The guy has been out of office for awhile. What's taking them so long?

They'd better get prancing if they're serious, he ain't getting any younger.

I'll wager pigs will fly before he's charged.

[L. Coyote]

11. I'll wager politization of justice and past offenses correlates in various ways, same politicos ....

[madokie]

17. this is a cheney whitehouse, monkey boy is what his name implies, monkey boy

and monkey boy plays his part well. to be where he is today he sold his soul to the dark lord darth cheney and there's no doubt in my mind about that. The dickster has been many many years working to be where he has little boots and himself at now.

[L. Coyote]

3. IMPEACH Petition > Yes, we passed the > 80,000 < mark, Next STOP 100,000

Yes, this is a shameless kick for impeachment :rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2485264

[EFerrari]

6. Check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2491057

[walldude]

7. Wait a minute.. The Democrats knew about this?

Years ago? Swell..

[L. Coyote]

10. Where are you pulling that from. The lied to the Rs on the Hill too!!

[EFerrari]

8. Oh, and not Bush, Cheney. Harriet Miers speaks for Bush.

Notice that among the people who are saying don't do it, none of them are Cheney's people? :shrug:

[DemGa]

12. I'm sure the Resident knew but

they would not directly involve the Resident. This is all Cheney's work, with Bush's knowledge, of course.

[Sydnie]

13. What reason would there be to record this?

1. Teach others the techniques? (then you would keep the tapes as instructional materials)
2. Records of what they said during their "interrogation"? (then you would keep the tapes as evidence)
3. To entertain the administration and their friends at parties? (then you could record over them like an old sitcom recording once the party is over)

Which one makes sense to do?

Any WHY would these be videotapes and not easily reproducible DVD's? Are we really using that archaic technology for somethings so sensitive?

[EFerrari]

14. Remember the FBI's new computer system -- that was a bust?

:shrug:

We've debated whether "tape" was just habit for "recording" but I bet it was tape at least some of the time.

[L. Coyote]

15. Surely "tape" is just a word here. The data streamed to Langley at some point.

So, any investigation will require a search for electronic media.

The stream may have been to White House Operations Center live too.

[EFerrari]

16. A DUer reminded us yesterday, that the US has a big, secure NSA

installation in Thailand that was built during Viet Nam . . .

[L. Coyote]

20. Is this where the split optical fiber stream is sent? all telecom traffic in USA?

I was told SE Asia was part of the illegal eavesdropping scheme, where traffic was routed to avoid US law..

[ThomWV]

18. "Strongly advised against" What in hell does that mean? Events in a nutshell

When your boss tells you not to destroy something do you then go forward and destroy it? What if you are told that not only your boss, but his boss as well as his boss's lawyers tell you not to destroy something, do you then go ahead and destroy it?

No, picture this instead. Goss caught between Rodriquez who destroyed the tapes and his boss Negroponte is the only person who was in a position to step over the wall of lawyers who also advised against the destruction of the tapes. Goss briefs Bush every morning. So in my mind everyone says on record that the tapes are not to be destroyed. The keeper of the tapes has but one conduit to decisions about what the fate of the tapes will be and that conduit is Porter Goss. Goss would not of his own accord order the destructing of the tapes with the full weight of the White House lawyers against it unless Bush, who he sees every morning, told him to get rid of them. That bypasses all the lawyers and it leaves only Goss to give Rodriguez the go ahead to torch them.

[L. Coyote]

19. We can be certain of one thing. Bush always has a cut-out of deniability

They had that perfected by Iran-Contra, insulating Reagan and Bush from the crimes by maintaining deniability.

Haldeman famously told Nixon, when ordered to do a crime, "Yeah. But you have to get somebody to do it."

Nixon probably thought, "Not me, you!"

[Didereaux]

21. CHENEY! CHENEY! CHENEY! goddamit Bush doesn't even know what a fucking tape is

well except the kind they keep sticking on his 'booboos' when he falls.