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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:40 PM
Original message
Second shooting in Colorado today...from LBN
Edited on Sun Dec-09-07 04:41 PM by Cerridwen
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=vi...

COLORADO SPRINGS Authorities say two to three people were shot on Sunday in the second shooting of the day in a religious organization.


The gunfire erupted in the 10,000-plus member mega-church, New Life Church, around 1:20 p.m., according to authorities.

The El Paso County Sheriff's Office says there are two to three victims, which possibly includes the shooter.

The Associated Press reports four people have been shot outside of the church, but it is not clear if this included the two to three people shot inside the church, as reported by El Paso deputies.

New Life Church was founded by Ted Haggard. Haggard was forced out after admitting in November 2006 to sexual immorality and purchasing methamphetamines from a gay escort.

http://www.9news.com/news/top-article.aspx?storyid=8247...

First one today: http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=82457


This looks very bad and very scary.


edit: "flesh out" subject line
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. The drug dealer didn't get paid?
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. People are injured and possibly dead and thats the best comment you can make?
wtf
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Would you be so ugly about this if these people were NOT fundamentalist
Christians?

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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am beginning to be afraid to go to the grocery store
Back in Maryland they have Pea Pod which delivers groceries. I wish we had them out here and then I'd just stay home permantly till 2009 and the Democrats can restore order.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. while I fuly understand your fears, please don't let them rob you of your ability to move
in the world. that means that the bastards win

the day of the omaha shootings, one of those twits on cnn said something lilke "it happened at a mall in omaha, but it could have been YOUR mall"

nice touch of fear-mongering there.

"illegitimaqti non carburundum"
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Not exactly what I meant by scary, but I get what you're saying.
By scary, I meant it looks suspiciously like someone or someones have declared a "take out the 'fundies'" day. I don't like the looks of that at all.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. It's a mark of freedom in our society that people are afraid to leave their homes.
What, you want to live in a police state like France? :sarcasm:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. perspective folks...
These events are high profile, but quite rare when you compare your very real risk of dying in a motor vehicle accident. Life has some risk, no matter what you do...
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Don't think like that, Bitwit.
You are at more risk every time you walk down the steps or into your bathroom than in any public place.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. two dead in the arvada shooting earlier--not a good day for fundies.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. We loves our gun rights here in CO.
If a few people have to be killed or maimed here or there, it's just the price we pay for freedom.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Shall I list for you the churches (and other buildings) that have been bombed
Edited on Sun Dec-09-07 05:03 PM by Cerridwen
in order to show you how asinine your statement is?

I put this post up because 2 churches not far from each other were attacked. I figured that was noteworthy.

Your post detracts from that particular point.







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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I wonder if it was the same shooter.
But I am too busy to compare timelines.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. At first I thought there might be a chance.
I understand one church is about 1.5hrs away from the other.

As news breaks, I hope I'll be disabused of that particularly ugly idea. Though 2 or more shooters isn't any prettier than one on a spree.

:(

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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Two is worse.
It's bad enough that we are experiencing an ever-increasing incidence of nut-case shooters, each trying to top the other.

But if this was two guys with a plan, the possibility of copycat teams is truly disturbing.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Your post reminded me of something. ARGH!
"Leaderless resistance" - I'm not sure how accurate Wiki is on this but here's the link, just in case you're not familiar with this particular concept/strategy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Not necessarily a bad thing. A friend of mine was a gunner in the Dutch Resistance..
at the age of twelve.

She was a shooter, and she has told me some wild stories.

Anyway, the Resistance was very much a localized leaderless resistance movement. Because in that type of situation there is no chance that the snake will lose its head.

She is a remarkable woman, even after all these years.

And get this, Cerridwen. Her husband-to-be was a sailor in the Dutch Navy who was taken prisoner and held in an underground prison in Hiroshima. One day they felt what they assumed was an earthquake. And the next day the guards didn't show up.

So they waited underground for a few days and still no guards.

They decided to break out and make their way top-side.

I often try to imagine what must have gone through their minds when they surfaced.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Not necessarily; though I think it depends on which side of the resistance
one is sitting, yes? :D

I agree, though, if one were to fight in a resistance movement, the leaderless variety could, in many ways, be far more effective, I would presume. If working in unaffiliated concert with a more "traditionally" organized resistance movement...hmm. Sorry, my thoughts stray into strange areas these days.

Your friends sounds like she has some wonderfully, horrific tales to tell. Her stories alongside those of her husband's (they did marry, right?) must be hair-raising, to say the least.



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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's tragic and scary how commonplace this has become.
I can't even keep up with the mass shooting stories anymore. Malls, schools, and now churches. No place is too sacred for gun violence in America. Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems the media used to depict the killers as these angry, anti-social loosers, but anymore, they are depicted in more in-depth stories as almost sympathetic characters. Like that boy who did the shootings in the mall last week. It disturbs me. I don't understand how a supposedly good person loved by friends and family could turn monster and randomly gun people down. Then again, shooting someone or something can be seen by some as an impersonal act: from your brain to your finger to trigger to the bullet actually doing the killing at a distance. Guns make it 100 times easier for people to kill.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm not allowed to carry a gun to church in my state, and people wonder why I would want to.....


Shit happens there too.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. Violence teaches violence. Why not gun control? Why not peace?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Know peace? No profit.
My first thought in answer to your question.

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. There are other ways to make a profit than war. As the song says: When will they ever learn, when
will they e-ever learn.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. When, indeed. When, indeed. *sigh* n/t
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. This is the 3rd church shooting.
There was another a few months ago. It is quite strange that Christians
are killing other Christians. Aren't Christians spozed to be peace loving?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-09-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Christians *are* peace loving. Those who would use Jesus as their logo...
not so much. My experience with the second type is that they worship at the altar of Capital by offering up graven images of Currency while singing war songs in honor of the god they call Patriotism.

The first type are Christians. That second group didn't learn about following false prophets and the evils of the worship of money; they're either gullible, ignorant, or cynically exploitive.

But, that's just my experience. YMMV.

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