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"if we go to play baseball we must respect what the umpire dictates"-Hugo Chavez

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:44 AM
Original message
"if we go to play baseball we must respect what the umpire dictates"-Hugo Chavez
He said this speaking to hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans tonight, about the upcoming vote.

Are these the words of a "dictator"?

-----------------------------------

I just read Oscar Heck's breathless account of the rally, with rough and ready translations, obviously written in haste and some of it quite fragmentary. But this baseball analogy came through loud and clear. It's something our corporate news monopolies never mention--Chavez's passion for baseball, cuz they know we all think that anyone who loves baseball can't be all bad. It's an American litmus test almost. He was poor as a kid and didn't have bats or balls, so he and his friends played with sticks and rocks. When he grew up and became president, he vowed to provide well-equipped baseball parks in every poor area of Venezuela, and has kept his promise. He boasts that Venezuela has the most baseball parks of any country in the world. That's in addition to schools, medical centers and other services in poor areas never before served by government, that the rich elite never bothered their privileged little heads about.

You may not like Heck's gushiness, but he definitely puts you there among the Chavistas, everybody crying and singing the national anthem.

It's important to feel things, you know--whatever you may think of policies and politicians. To feel is part of understanding--what all this means to the poor, what it means to people who turned back a U.S.-backed rightwing coup, who survived a crippling Exxon-Mobile/Bush sponsored oil bosses strike, who triumphed through three difficult elections, voting Chavez in with increasing margins each time, people who are scorned by corporate elites and positively hated by Bushites, ordinary people, workers, shopkeepers. This is THEIR revolution. Chavez is just the ikon of it. What it must be like to be in such a crowd, with the global corporate predators of this world circling all around them, talons bared, led by Donald Rumsfeld.

Chavez must make them feel safe. Ikon of their sovereignty. Eye of the hurricane, focusing their energies and intentions in solidarity with each other.

Yeah, it could swell your ego and tempt you to become a "dictator," but I don't think it has. It's a vote--a ball in the air--and the umpire will decide. The umpire being the people. That's what he said.

Something else Chavez said: "Let the whole world know that this only happens in Venezuela ... we, the children of Guaicaipuro, the children of Simon Bolivar, of Josefa Joaquina Sanchez, have awakened ... we don't care if the Kings of the world tell us to shut up ... we will never again shut up."

A lot of us here in the U.S. don't understand this revolution very well. And we don't understand the brainwashing and propaganda that we are subjected to very well either. Too bad we couldn't go to both rallies--the rightwing rally yesterday and this one, and just be there and feel it. Yup, the rightwing had a big rally, too, with their right to do so fully protected by the people they despise. Would they do the same, if the situation was reversed? There is a lot of reason to believe that they would not--from their previous actions, and from their current threats not to recognize the vote, and to disrupt the country if it doesn't go their way. As Patrick Fitzgerald famously said, of Scooter Libby, it was as if he'd thrown dust in the eyes of the umpire--Libby's lies and perjury--preventing Fitzgerald from completing the investigation and identifying the crime and the criminals.

Dust in the eyes of the umpire. It's how we judge the justice of things--baseball.

-------

"Oscar Heck: Never have I witnessed so much love with so many people present" 12/1/07
http://vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=77183

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," By Donald Rumsfeld 12/2/07
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2384690
(what would Donald Rumsfeld do if he didn't like the umpire's call?)

Venezuela Analysis says it was 500,000 (news report)
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/2942
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. If the umpire is paid off, then yes...
They'd be the words of a cunning dictator with a gift for crowd exploitation.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm going to start doing shots every time someone posts a gratuitous
dictator comment.

lol
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Ooh, easy. Pace yourself.
The ones spreading lies for the right would want you to shut up and lie down.

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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. you're going to have some kind of a head ache when you awaken
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Careful! That much alcohol could be life-threatening.
Folks who're duped by the corporate media are far too plentiful, even on DU.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I rethought that. I like my liver!
If I hadn't checked for myself with two monitoring agencies, I'd believe that the voting will not be monitored. The NYTs printed it and the State Department is saying it. It's pretty hard to compete with that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. "We will never again shut up."
:)
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
4.  What a horrible, horrible dictator...
"After voting; we must stay organized to prevent violence ... and if by any chance the opposition wins we must accept the results ...although it is almost impossible for them to win ... as we did when they won the call for a presidential referendum (2004) ... if we go to play baseball we must respect what the umpire dictates ... if the YES option wins, the opposition will have no option but to accept and respect the changes to the Constitution ... the Constitution -- the 1999 Constitution -- that they never acknowledged before but now defend ... where it says that in order to win you need more votes ... that the one who obtains less votes is not the winner."

Doesn't he know that riots and political violence are fundamental to democracy?

:sarcasm:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for this post "Peace." It's a good read and especially for those
who don't get what Chavez is trying to do and the people he's trying to do it for which are part of him.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. He also said he wanted to play dominoes & go fishing with Shrub in retirement.
I'm still not all that sure Shrub will give up the office, but it looks like CHAVEZ plans not to retire till 95 yrs old. It's the humility of bowing to all those elections.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It does make one wonder, but FDR ruled by winning elections for 13 years.
16 years is what he would have had if he had lived.

Now that doesn't mean that I am comparing Chavez to FDR in ANY OTHER WAY besides the number of years they served (and the lonegvity that Chavez seems to desire), but it is something to think about.

FDR may have stayed to see WWII through and also because of the failed Bushie Smedley Butler Coup because he knew that freedom in America was already under threat by the people who's grandchildren would succeed 66 years later in ending the American Experiment.

Chavez, who faces similar threats from the grandson of the man who would have been the Ambassador to Germany of the Fascist States of America in 1935 if the plotters whom Smedley Butler turned in (God Bless his patriotic) had succeeded.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651

Just something to think about. I am still thinking about it, and I am still undecided about Chavez.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Time to get UNdecided. The first quack, WAY BACK, was enough. n/t
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Time for you to decide about Sacco and Vanzetti, then.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 05:34 PM by tom_paine
Innocent victims or murderous socialist-anarchists?

C'mon, make a quick decision and tell me what it is.

:evilgrin:
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. "Would they do the same, if the situation was reversed?" Well you got me there.
I think if the situation was reversed, the usual Bushie SOA methods would out.

Those same SOA methods (minus the overt brutality) the Bushies now use regularly on we Americans to steal elections, neutralize the oppositon (nonviolently, mostly, at least in da Homelant), etc. etc.

Hmmmm. I am trying to be somewhat dispassionate in lookng at this, there is so much "Chavez is a Saint" and "Chavez is the Devil" talk on DU it is hard to navigate.

I was leaning towards Chavez being more of a Leftie Authoritarian, and it still may turn out that he is. But as I watch this latest episode of "As the Venezuela Turns" I begin to slide back to the fence in the middle.

I have to say, though, with his overblown hyperbole such as Bush is the worst tyrant in the history of man (which, bad as Bushler is, is absolutely and 100% UNTRUE...it is ridiculous), makes me distrust him, too.

On the fence...still watching and listening to both sides...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. While you sit on the fence, Tom_Paine, some Blackwater sharpshooter or
rightwing Colombian paramilitary sharpshooter is cleaning the rifle that he may be paid to use, to put a bullet in Hugo Chavez's forehead, or his back. That's how I see it. And, following that, torture, jail, leftists shoved out of airplanes, mass graves, beatings, brutality, poverty, silence for the poor and the just and the peaceful in Venezuela, possibly escalating to Bolivia and Ecuador. Another dark night in South America.

I feel very strongly that the good and principled and well-informed people of our country cannot sit by the sidelines while this happens again. I am with the people of Venezuela and their free and transparent choices, and THEIR revolution. It is theirs. And if Chavez doesn't serve them well, they will remove him. Thus far, they have given him overwhelming support, time and again. And if they feel that these constitutional amendments are not good for their country--perhaps go too far too fast, or whatever the conclusion of the majority is--they will rebuke him and tell him to slow down. And that will be good, too, in my opinion, so long as the elections are transparent (they are--very) and no other thing is coercing them (yet to be determined--Donald Rumsfeld's threats in the WaPo yesterday, and other threatened violence, retribution and chaos may be a factor in this one).

I do understand the need to protect one's psyche--living in an extremely unjust country, as we do--by taking a distant, bemused, objective (or so we think) viewpoint about the horrors that our government commits in our name. It is very, very, very difficult to face it, and it is not just one thing--Iraq--it is many; and it is not just now, it goes back decades; and it is not just brutality, torture and war, it is vast impoverishment, to make the rich richer here.

I cannot be this kind of objective about Latin America. I have been about Iraq--maybe because I don't have as big a heart connection to that society, whereas I do with Latin Americans. Or maybe it's because the atrocity in Iraq is so big, the mind can hardly take it in. Estimates of a half million to a million people slaughtered by the U.S. military in that country are probably accurate. It staggers the imagination, not because it is unprecedented, but because...I thought we'd gotten past that magnitude of naked aggression, as a society, and as a world. I'm not without feelings about it, but I have tried to be objective about what we can DO about it. For instance, I think our energies are better spent restoring transparent elections in the U.S., so that we regain the power, as a people, to prevent such horrors. Protesting to a deaf president and a deaf congress may be important as moral witness, and to hearten people, but it will not move our corrupt political officials, as long as we do not have the power to throw them out.

Or maybe it's because the deed is done in Iraq. We can't bring the dead back to life. Whereas, with Latin America, we at least still have the chance to prevent the carnage and horrors of the past from being repeated. Also, I am a Californian, and grew up in two cultures. Our towns and streets have Spanish names. Half our population is Latin American. I have Mexican-Americans as in-laws, and nieces and nephews. About Latin America, while I do think that our power as a people is an important issue--our power to create just policy--I feel so close to the matter, that I cannot sit back and look at the developing horror of Bushite policy as a political problem.

One other thing bumped me off the fence. I recently learned the magnitude of the carnage in Guatemala, in the 1980s, with Reagan's direct complicity. Two hundred thousands Mayan villagers slaughtered, on suspicion of being "leftists." Women and children skinned alive. Whole villages wiped out and incinerated. Parents and children forced to witness each other's torture and death. This was happening only one country away from me, in the 1980s, and I knew almost nothing about it--certainly not the scale of this horror. Did my ignorance and silence--and those of others like me--contribute to that colossal crime? I considered myself a leftist. It's true that the scale of it (and Reagan's complicity) has only recently been revealed, in a UN-sponsored 'truth and reconciliation' process. But was I not, as an American citizen, obliged to know what my government was doing--no matter the obstacles to information?

I MUST not sit on the fence this time. I must not sit back in blissful ignorance. I am determined to know what's going on, and determined to do everything I can to inform others. And the Bolivarian Revolution--Latin Americans pulling together, to create the political and economic strength to defend themselves--is a wondrous and unexpected development. It is not all dependent on Chavez, and will survive and move forward with or without him. Of that I am convinced. But our horrible corporate media is trying to make it all about him, as a surrogate for the vast poor brown population of the south that their paymasters want to continue exploiting and brutalizing. The poor need strong presidencies--in Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador (where this government structure fight is also being waged)--just as we needed a strong president here, when the Great Depression hit. Where would we have been, had FDR not asserted a whole lot of power, to get the situation under control and reversed?

I think Chavez is right to act with strength and to seek more power--just as Evo Morales in Bolivia and Rafael Correa in Ecuador are doing. They need FDR-like powers to cope with the devastation that "neo-liberalism" has wrought on their countries. To call that "dictatorship" is robber baron propaganda. And there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Chavez has abused, or ever would abuse, the power he has, or the power these current amendments would give him.

So I am not neutral on Chavez. I think he has been slandered--and by very bad, greedy people, for very bad reasons. It has opened my eyes to how corporate media cabals work. I think the evidence is in--and I have searched far and wide for information. Every time I have investigated one of these "dictator" charges against Chavez, it has evaporated before the facts. They are all bullshit. They are disinformation.

In my view, sitting on the fence is not an option in this case--not for me. We need to spread the word on this--that we are being lied to and brainwashed again--and do whatever we can to prevent another U.S.-instigated tragedy in South America, that will shatter the lives and hopes of millions of people. I think that the Bolivarian Revolution will succeed, whatever the global corporate predators do, even Rumsfeld's dream of war in the Andes. But how much grief is going to inflicted on these poor people, before their independence and self-determination is achieved?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Food for thought. Thank you.
n/t
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've been to venezuela both before and after
chavez took over.

I gotta tell you, that for the VAST majority of people, they are far better off with him than without.

from basics like food, water, sewers, to those luxuries like education, health care, etc.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. When a white guy says it in English, he's presidential.
When a slightly browner guy says it in Spanish, he must be a dictator.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. We've talked before, here on this board, about how "race"
is an issue in this election for Venezuela and how it dovetails with the new American nativism. I agree with you.
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