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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 10:46 PM
Original message
Venezuelan Government Uncovers Video of Opposition Destabilization Plan
Venezuelan Government Uncovers Video of Opposition Destabilization Plan

by Chris Carlson
November 30th 2007


Opposition leaders Alejandro Peña Esclusa and Leopoldo Lopez speaking at a church in Caracas (YouTube)


Caracas, November 30, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com)- Venezuelan Telecommunications Minister Jesse Chacon presented a video revealing the opposition strategy of destabilization for Sunday's referendum at a press conference on Thursday. In the video, opposition leaders call on their supporters to reject the results of the referendum and to take part in nation-wide protests to overturn the constitutional reform. Two opposition leaders are being investigated for inciting violence and calling on supporters to break the law.

.....

In the video that has been posted on the internet at various web pages, including YouTube, leaders of the Venezuelan opposition can be seen speaking to supporters in a church in Caracas, calling on supporters to create "pockets of protest" all over the country after the national vote this Sunday.

"It is a more efficient mechanism that generates a political crisis and a crisis of instability that forces the regime to withdraw the reform," says opposition leader Alejandro Peña Esclusa in the video. Esclusa insists that the plan for massive protests must be a group effort all across the nation, making the government unable to control it.

Alongside Esclusa is opposition mayor Leopoldo Lopez, who also speaks in the video, making the case that the electoral results cannot be trusted, but he does not give explicit support for the destabilization plan.

.....

"How is it possible that the temple of God be used to incite violence?" asked Chacón. "The pulpit should be used to call for peace, not for violence."

As a result of the finding, the Venezuelan government launched an investigation of two opposition leaders, Alejandro Peña Esclusa and Carlos Guyón Celis, for publishing various videos online that incite violence. Government intelligence will investigate the two leaders for their involvement in calling on sectors of society to not recognize the results of the national vote on Sunday and to break the law.

.....


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just spotted your post. Kicking this to the top. People need to see it. n/t
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oops
K&R
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm so glad that Chavez is up to the challenge.
There should be round-the-clock protests against them wherever they raise their heads. I am so glad that there conspiracies are being exposed. Clearly they want to provoke another fascist coup in the mold of Pinochet and Suharto. Luckily, Chavez is far more adept than either Allende or Sukarno and will not hesitate to politically obliterate these scum. He is showing an excellent model for how progressives should win, wield, and consolidate political power to serve the people's interests.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. And Chavez being no
slouch has all that history to learn from.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Omg. "How to catch the Right Wing with Their Pants Down".
lol
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Blaah blah dictator blah blah corrupt blah blah asshole etc...
The CIA and their contractors are busy little beavers, in both hemispheres.

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
83. Doesn't say CIA. Says opposition leaders. What do you know of them? Where do they come from?
Blah, blah, criticism of any sort at all? I hope not.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. White riot. I wanna riot. White riot. A riot of my own.
Edited on Fri Nov-30-07 11:19 PM by 1932
The crazy thing about this is they're asking people to riot and risk their lives so that a few people who aren't risking their lives can get rich and powerful.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. that's not crazy at all.....
that is how, down through history, with very few exceptions, it always happens

who do you think was behind Hitler?

who took all the risks, and who went punished (as well as unpunished) when we "won" WWII?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
55. Excellent Summary!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Andale. Kick!
:rofl:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. I Don't Speak Spanish
but Alejandro Peña Esclusa is all over YouTube ...

Recommended.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Keep it kicked.
Throughout the weekend.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Gee, it almost sounds like they expect to lose the referendum.
But we've been hearing how Venezuelans really hate Chavez, and are marching in the streets by the tens of thousands. So there's no way the opposition could really lose the referendum, right?



Unless, of course, the RW opposition really IS just a -30% minority, and the vast majority really DO support Chavez.

Ya think?
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. simply amazing
the government puts its people in a meeting of opposition members

they are using the footage they took as evidence of some conspiracy to incite violence completely ignoring the right of the people to protest if Venezuela is truly a free country, as Chavez supporters like to claim

but of course the Chavez fans will say that the opposition posted these videos on line which might make sense in some bizarro universe




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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. One problem with that theory is the Chavez government has no
history of resorting to violence and the opposition does it in a heartbeat AND has been caught doing it repeatedly.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. the Chavez government does have a history
tear gas against student protesters?




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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
64. I have to wonder if that's true. The opposition students got
violent more than once in the last two weeks, trying to provoke the police into an armed response. They were running around setting fires and destroying property. At one point, the fire department had to go rescue some Chavista kids that were trapped in a university building that was being attacked by the mob.

Initially, this story was reported as "police use tear gas and water cannons on student protestors" and the Chavez government was tarred with it. It took two days for a retraction to be issued. It's not clear to me, though, that the police didn't use tear gas at some point during these last two weeks or so.

It's been a real struggle to just try to get reliable information. It's made me really worried about what will happen once we get the White House back. I'm afraid the next Democratic president will have to endure what Clinton did from the press only much worse.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. There Is Protest, and There Is Destruction
These people weren't advocating protest within the system.
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spag68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-30-07 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. Chavez
First of all, churches have been used to foment revolution for many years, and how do we know here what is right for venezuela? How do you support someone that wants to be a dictator until 2050? How do we know what he is up to, and how do we know what our govt. has to do with it? It's all well and good to say these things from the comfort of our own homes, and we all know that Exxon was robbing that country for at least 70 years. It seems to me that the "people" are no better off with Chavez then anyone else, or are all the food shortages made up? I suggest reading overseas news, and watching bbc, not just going crazy here.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. Reforming Venezuela's Constitution (Speech by Ambassador of Venezuela to US, Nov 19)
Reforming Venezuela's Constitution

by Bernardo Alvarez Herrera
November 20th 2007


Presentation by Bernardo Alvarez Herrera, Ambassador of Venezuela to the US at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington DC.


Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez Herrera
Photo Credit: Chris Leck


.....

Since President Hugo Chávez’s first election in 1998 and his most recent re-election in 2006, Venezuela has undergone a dramatic revolution in peace and democracy. After a failed coup attempt in 2002 and a sabotage of the oil industry in 2003, the Venezuelan government has aggressively worked to expand the means for political participation; create an equitable and sustainable economy; and address longstanding social deficits.
To that end, and in accordance with Article 342 of the 1999 Constitution, on August 15 President Chávez proposed 33 reforms to the constitution. The reforms were aimed at helping speed the redistribution of national resources to Venezuela’s neediest; decentralize political power and grant communities more say in federal affairs; and outline the legal foundations of the country’s new system. After the reforms were proposed, the National Assembly debated the reforms in three rounds, approving a final slate of 69 reforms in late October.

But unlike traditional political debates, the discussions of the reforms occurred throughout Venezuela and were open to massive public participation. In a 47-day period – from August 16 to October 7 – some 9,020 public events were held and 80,000 phone calls made to a special hotline, mechanisms through which the Venezuelan people were free to offer opinions and critiques. Over 10 million copies of the reforms were distributed to the public, and one poll found that over 77 percent of the Venezuelan people had read them. The reforms are set to be voted on in a national referendum on December 2 – leaving their fate in the hands of the Venezuelan people.

Much has been made of the reforms, most of it ignoring or distorting key details. One reform would extend the presidential term limit to seven years and do away with term limits. Of course, the president would still have to face regular elections and the recall referendum, an innovative democratic mechanism that allows the Venezuelan people to cut short the term of any elected official. Another set of reforms would codify new forms of public property, though while restating the rights to private ownership. And another reform would limit certain political liberties during national emergencies, though while maintaining key due process rights and the right to life and personal integrity – thus keeping with international standards.

Of course, critics tend to ignore many of the most progressive reforms. One would prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation or health. Another would lower the voting age to 16 – following a similar move made in Austria this year. Two others would formalize the right to adequate housing and right to free public education, while others still would create a social security fund for the self-employed, protect Afro-Venezuelan heritage and guarantee the full rights of prisoners.
The critics of the reforms not only misunderstand their purpose, but they also fail to recognize that since President Chávez was first elected, their worst fears and warning have not come true. Democracy remains vibrant in Venezuela (the 2007 Latinobarometro finds that Venezuelans are again second most likely in the region to express satisfaction with their democracy), the economy continues to grow (four consecutive years of 11.9 percent average growth) and social programs are yielding important advances (a drop in poverty from 55 percent in 2003 to 30 percent in 2006). Moreover, many of the critics of the reforms seem to underestimate the capabilities and intelligence of the Venezuelan people. Even though Venezuela’s process of change has proceeded peacefully, democratically and openly, there is still a poor understanding of the capacities of the Venezuelan people to determine their own interests and govern themselves. To these critics, the Venezuelan people – the great majority of which are literate, educated and engaged – are easily manipulated. This simply isn’t true.

The reforms to the 1999 Constitution are fully consistent with the changing needs of a democratic country like Venezuela that is seeking an alternative model of participation and development. The process by which the reforms were debated indicates a high level of civic engagement and participation, a key element of any democratic system. When you remove the reforms from the usual political dynamic surrounding Venezuela, it becomes clear that many of the reforms’ basic principles – increased participation and social justice – are agreed on by most people. Ultimately, the Venezuelan people will be able to decide whether or not these reforms succeed in the national referendum set for December 2. The basic request of the Venezuelan people is that this democratic process be understood and be respected.


Bernardo Alvarez.
Venezuela Ambassador to the United States.
November 19, 2007



Good wishes to all Venezuelans this weekend.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Ambassador Alvarez makes a point that I have made time and again,
although I don't make it as politely as he does.

"...many of the critics of the reforms seem to underestimate the capabilities and intelligence of the Venezuelan people. Even though Venezuela’s process of change has proceeded peacefully, democratically and openly, there is still a poor understanding of the capacities of the Venezuelan people to determine their own interests and govern themselves. To these critics, the Venezuelan people – the great majority of which are literate, educated and engaged – are easily manipulated. This simply isn’t true." --Ambassador Alvarez

When our war profiteering corporate news monopolies--and their sad echo chamber here at DU--paint Chavez as a dictator, they are insulting the Venezuelan people, and they are really using Chavez as punching bag for what they would like to do to the poor, the homeless, the workers, the cannon fodder, the slave labor--stomp them into the ground, silence them, send them cringing back to their hovels, and, if necessary, torture them, chainsaw them and throw their body parts into mass graves--as U.S.-connected rightwing paramilitary death squads are doing to union organizers, small peasant farmers and political leftists in Colombia--terrorize and kill them.

Our war profiteering corporate news monopolies, the Bush Junta and apparently some DUers want Chavez dead. Silenced. Toppled. Disempowered--if not disemboweled. They DON'T LIKE him being president of Venezuela. It cuts into their ungodly profits. And they have no respect for democracy or for the people of Venezuela who have gone to a great of trouble to create a good democracy.

It is the people of Venezuela who have elected Chavez, each time by increased margins. It is the people of Venezuela who rescued him from the rightwing military coup, and to whom he owes any power that he has. And it is the people of Venezuela, really, who are making this peaceful, democratic revolution. It is a grass roots driven revolution.

And these promoters of the "Big Lie" about Chavez don't think the people of Venezuela would recognize a "dictator"? They had a true dictatorship shoved down their throats, and repelled it. It is the OPPOSITION who are the would-be "dictators." The people of Venezuela know this better than anyone. That is no doubt WHY they want Chavez to remain in office--much like the people of the United States wanted FDR to remain in office--for FOUR straight terms. (FDR was a "president for life"!) He is NOT a dictator. That is the point!

No one who supports gay rights, or a shorter work week, or dispersing budget power from his own hands to community councils, can be a "dictator." That is not what dictators do!

And the emergency powers that have been proposed, and that the majority of Venezuelans are likely to approve, are to PREVENT ANOTHER RIGHTWING COUP! It seems obvious to me! Why isn't it obvious to everyone else? They don't want their elected president ever to be caught again without sufficient power to head off a coup. WHY ELSE would a PRESIDENT put this matter TO A VOTE? A "dictator" would simply TAKE the power--like Bush, as a matter of fact! And it is Bush, the Bush-CIA, the Bush embassy, their global corporate predator pals and their Democratic Party colluders whom the people of Venezuela fear--not Chavez!

They don't think the people of Venezuela are smart?! God, they are SO smart! They don't want to have to pour into the streets again, in the tens of thousands, at risk of their lives, to deal with these rightwing plotters and fascists who keep trying to destroy their democracy. They want THEIR representative--Chavez--to prevent it, on their behalf. And clearly they trust him to do so, without in any way damaging their democracy.

Well, in any case, I think that's going to be their verdict on the amendments. No wonder it's stirring up trouble on the right. They are about to be denied an easy road to their heart's desire--another coup.

Alvarez was right to point this out--ever so politely. Show some respect for the Venezuelan people! Don't "underestimate the capabilities and intelligence of the Venezuelan people."
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. This is the way I see it as well. The Venezuelan people are driving this.
If only our citizenry were so engaged in their future... but the viciously controlled media make sure Americans do not read or hear about stunning realities happening all around us.

This speech by Venezuelan Ambassador Alvarez and your eloquent reply should be read by everyone.

Thank you.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. The Ambassador will be a guest on WJ on Sunday morning. nt
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Thanks for the alert. I recall the clip you shared with DU'ers from LinkTV in which he appeared.
He's a very gentle, courteous, kind person. It will be good to see him again.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
42. Thank you for the heads up, sfexpat2000. Will try to catch it. n/t
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
57. Sunday, 9:40 am: Ambassador on now, Washington Journal, CSPAN 1
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well, it's pretty easy to see "conspiracies" against you everywhere when...
...there are conspiracies against you everywhere.

I wonder if these guys got their paychecks from the NED or the IRI?

NED;
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=National_Endowment_For_Democracy

IRI in Haiti;
http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/blogs/12392/Haiti_Force_Feeding_Democracy

Ex-CIA agent Philip Agee spills the beans on NED in Venezuela;
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7513

Chavez is definitely under attack, and it will get worse. Especially if President Chucklefuck bombs Iran, and Iran asks Chavez to switch off the taps to the U.S.

Sadly, we live in interesting times. If you are not hip to the notion of False Flag attacks, now is the time to get hip;
http://www.joecrubaugh.com/blog/10-false-flags-that-changed-the-world/

(The inclusion of Rome may be over the top, but the others stand on their own merit.)

-rep.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Great links. So good to read ex-CIA agent, Philip Agee's comments.
Appreciate your taking the time to post them: they're all very worthwhile.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Thanks for adding those great links to this discussion. The Agee interview is a must read.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. excellent links... nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. USAID. n/t
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BornagainDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. AGEE!
Now here is a guy with some huge, uh...er. nerve enabling appendages. He is a Smedley Butler of the Intelligence Community!
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
24. Here's a link to the video, in Spanish! I hope he's broadcasting it on public tv
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mike098762001 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Is “Operacion Tenazas” disinformation from the Venezuelan government? « Mercury Rising
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Not that it's totally illuminating, here's a babelfish version of the article from the site
Edited on Sat Dec-01-07 10:34 AM by Judi Lynn
you linked. As you can see, it's a REALLY rough, but it's possible to feel you can grasp some of the information, anyway:
VIDEO) They show competing leaders from a church summoning to not know results By: Press World-wide Web YVKE Date of publication: 29/11/07 impri it to me mándaselo to your velveteens The Mayor Leopoldo Lopez, was between the competing leaders in the church. Credito: File - VTV The conductor of the Hojilla, Mario Silva, had access to a video where Alexander Rock Sluice, leader of the Venezuelan extreme right, and Leopoldo Lopez, mayor of Chacao, debated the past in a church in Samanes (Caracas) 21 of November on the plans for the 2 of December. Rock Sluice is in favor of "the candelita" plan: ten thousand centers of protests at national level singing fraud immediately Tibisay Lucena announce the results, that, in opinion of Rock Sluice, will lead to a governability crisis. This happens at the same time that Vice-president Rodriguez asks the Episcopal Conference if the churches are being used to destabilize. This Wednesday, the program "the Hojilla" of Venezuelan of Television showed a video in which Leopoldo Lopez, mayor of Chacao, and Alexander Rock Sluice, leader of the competing extreme right, explained the plans that they soon have for this Sunday of referendo for the Constitutional Reformation. Even though the conductor of "the Hojilla", Mario Silva, did not explain as it was the church where it happened this meeting nor when became the same one, the same videos can be found in the Youtube vestibule (to see 1, 2, 3 and 4) as well as in the Digital News Web site. The person who raised them, of "giancarloga" name, affirms to have recorded these images the 21 of November of the 2007 in a small church of the sector Samanes, in the Southeastern of Caracas. "We do not know referendo", affirmed to Rock Sluice. "We beforehand do not know the electoral act as well as the results; if the CNE announces that it won Yes, that act is írrito and null." It affirms that the Reformation is an act of treason to the mother country, and that the important thing is not to discuss if to vote or not to vote, but to prepare itself at night for Sunday, when the candelitas execute the plan "". "day 2 at night, or day 3 at dawn, Tibisay Lucena it is going to leave in national chain and is going to say that Yes it won, probably with a percentage of the 65 percent". Rock Sluice requests that, it has vowed or no, the people must be prepared: "a million people, divided in 10 thousand centers of protests same day, to the same hour, at national level, they are not possible to be repressed with 200 armed men. It requires to require to all the military institutions and police (...) It is a mechanism, much more surely efficient, that forces to a political crisis and of governability that the regime forces to retire the Reformation." Leopoldo Lopez took part affirming that he thinks that yes he is due to go to vote and who in referendo of 2004 "there was fraud", because there were witnesses of table of the no opposition in many of the tables. It thinks that the effort must focus in preparing table witnesses, to which Rock Sluice proposes that, instead of that, must organize 10 thousand centers of protests in a joint effort that must include all the parties of opposition. Used churches to subvertir the order Rock Sluice directed in the years the eighty political party of extreme right Shared in common Force, neofascist character, and was an outstanding leader of the Christian sect Tradition, Family and Property, radically preservative and anti-communist, that isolated the young people who participated in her and was prohibited in Venezuela in 1984 when she was discovered that they glided to assassinate al Pope Juan Pablo II to his visit to our country. The presentation of this video agrees with the denunciations of vice-president Jorge Rodriguez, who has demanded explanations by two days consecutive to the Venezuelan Episcopal Conference, to the cardinal Jorge Urosa Sabino and the father Luis Ugalde, on the presumed entailment of sectors of the Catholic Church in "guarimbas" or violent protests that happened this Monday in the states Carabobo and Aragua, that caused the death of the worker of Petrocasa Jose Anibal Oliveros Yépez at hands of competing extremists. According to Rodriguez, the day Sunday a meeting was made in the Diocesiano Institute in Beautiful the Andrés urbanization of Maracay, with the presence of Oscar Perez and Carlos Guyón Celis, two leaders of the competing grouping radical "National Commando for the Resistance". Rodriguez also denounced that Monday at dawn, some churches carabobeñas were used to organize there from guarimbas, distributing itself in same rubbers, gasoline and "miguelitos" (tacks to burst rubbers of automobiles).
(snip/)
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
Babelfish
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
27. Are they calling for protests
or violent protests?

It seems as though they are preparing to protest results which they don't like. According to the article, they are planning pockets of protest, but not violence. Chacon takes it to the next step, saying "How is it possible that the temple of God be used to incite violence?" Since when does protest = violence?


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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. They're telling people to get cans of gasoline and old tires and they want to cause
a political crisis if they lose the vote.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. It didn't state that in the blip that I read in the OP
Is there a spanish language version where it states that?


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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. post 24
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
32. For those DU'ers who wondered about CNN's connection to any of this,
you may find the following interesting. I knew the material about Gustavo Cisneros, as many, many DU'ers already do, but I did NOT know about his connection to "CNN en Español!"
This is no coincidence ... CNN is complicit ... especially since 'CNN en Espanol' is owned by the Cisneros, one of the two wealthiest Venezuelan families, totally anti-Chavez, and heavily involved (through Venevision, one of Venezuela's most anti-Chavez television stations, owned by the Cisneros) in promoting the April 2002 coup against Chavez and the subsequent violent employer sabotage of the country in 2002 and 2003.
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=77142



Gustavo Cisneros and his American fishing pal.


You may recall reading that Gustavo Cisneros has been a close family friend of George H. W. Bush for YEARS, as a good old "fishing buddy."



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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Meanwhile, the Miami Herald is beating the drums...
Chances for Venezuelan reforms growing slim, December 1, 2007

BY CASTO OCANDO AND CASEY WOODS

Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez's supporters filled the streets ahead of Sunday's referendum as polls increasingly predicted their defeat.


CARACAS --
President Hugo Chávez's supporters filled the streets of the Venezuelan capital by the tens of thousands Friday as they closed a campaign to approve controversial constitutional reforms in a vote Sunday, but the latest poll showed a growing margin for a ''no'' vote.

The swing toward ''no'' came as Chávez critics from Caracas to Miami,....


But the latest poll, taken Monday through Thursday by Venezuela's Hinterlaces firm, showed the ''no'' vote winning by 6 percentage points in the closest scenario, and 21 points in the most lopsided, depending largely on turnout.

Hinterlaces said 80 percent of those polled said they would vote on Sunday for sure -- a high turnout is expected to favor Chávez's opposition -- while 11 percent said they probably would vote and 6 percent said they would abstain. The company polled 1,642 voters in 15 states around the country.

Some surveys still predict a Chávez victory on Sunday. And Chávez supporters have warned against biased polls that predict a defeat of the reforms so that the opposition can claim fraud after the vote. By law, the Hinterlaces polls cannot be published in Venezuela so close to the Sunday vote.

.....




BUT, with a big hat tip to Judi Lynn, Hinterlaces polls are linked to Chavez opposition.

Whaddya know.



More from the Herald:


Several anti-Chávez groups had urged voters to stay home, arguing that the vote will be rigged in the president's favor and that going to the polls would then only legitimize a fraud.




WTF?? Venezuelans know that to stay home is to legitimize a fraud. I swear, this is Florida/Ohio/New Mexico redux. But, this is BushWorld.


(In Miami, FL) The consulate decided last week to change the polling site from Tropical Park to the consulate, at 1101 Brickell Ave., Borgo said, because of concerns that the Park space was ''too open.'' The move, however, has sparked concerns and criticism from many in the community because of the lack of space and easy parking at the downtown consulate.

''It's going to make it much more difficult to vote because the consulate is going to be crowded,'' said González. ``It could be a disaster.''



Another WTF?? Suddenly moving the voting place in Miami from an "open place" to one that's crowded, no parking, so just don't even bother to vote anyway... WTF, Miami Herald! Shame!







We are being firehosed with an aggressive propaganda campaign.



All the News That's Fit to Buy, Alexander Cockburn in The Nation, December 8, 2005:


Almost from its inception, the CIA had journalists on its payroll, a fact acknowledged in ringing tones by the agency in its announcement in 1976, when George H.W. Bush took over from William Colby, that "effective immediately, the CIA will not enter into any paid or contract relationship with any full-time or part-time news correspondent accredited by any US news service, newspaper, periodical, radio or television network or station." Though the announcement also stressed that the CIA would continue to "welcome" the voluntary, unpaid cooperation of journalists, there's no reason to believe that the agency actually stopped covert payoffs to the Fourth Estate.

In his Secret History of the CIA, published in 2001, Joe Trento describes how in 1948 CIA man Frank Wisner was appointed director of the Office of Special Projects, soon renamed the Office of Policy Coordination (OPC). This became the espionage and counterintelligence branch of the CIA, the very first in its list of designated functions being "propaganda." Later that year Wisner set an operation code-named Mockingbird to influence the domestic American press. He recruited Philip Graham of the Washington Post to run the project within the industry.

Trento writes that "one of the most important journalists under the control of Operation Mockingbird was Joseph Alsop, whose articles appeared in over 300 different newspapers. Other journalists willing to promote the views of the CIA included Stewart Alsop (New York Herald Tribune), Ben Bradlee (Newsweek), James Reston (New York Times), Charles Douglas Jackson (Time), Walter Pincus (Washington Post), William C. Baggs (Miami News), Herb Gold (Miami News) and Charles Bartlett (Chattanooga Times)."

By 1953 Operation Mockingbird had a major influence over twenty-five newspapers and wire agencies, including the Times, Time and CBS. Wisner's operations "were funded by siphoning off funds intended for the Marshall Plan. Some of this money was used to bribe journalists and publishers." In his book Mockingbird: The Subversion of the Free Press by the CIA, Alex Constantine writes that in the 1950s, "some 3,000 salaried and contract CIA employees were eventually engaged in propaganda efforts."







A related post on another thread by donsu here



Bottom line:

Many Venezuelan people support their President. The President's opposition is publishing bogus polls, predicting a *resounding defeat* of the Chavez referendum. The opposition is discouraging voters from voting by producing these polls; telling voters that by the act of voting, they will be "legitimizing fraud"; even changing the voting station in Miami, FL to a less accessable location for voting. And don't forget the massive media blitz against Chavez in Venezuela and in the US, as evidenced above, in own own newspapers.

If the referendum passes, then the opposition will go on full court press to dispute it because it *didn't agree with the polling* (by an outfit connected to the opposition). See how that works?







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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
59. Ocando must be CIA because he works the propadanda beat.
I caught him doing the same thing about two weeks ago. When I busted his sourcing, the Herald removed my post from their forum.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #59
62.  We are under a blanket of anti-Chavez propaganda now.
With Rummy's piece in the WAPO today, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html">The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez, using language "....he has repeatedly threatened his neighbors" in the first paragraph... (C'mon, Rummy, that is SO 2002.)


.. and in the NY Times this morning, from the former general who has known Chavez for 35 years, RAÚL ISAÍAS BADUEL writing Why I Parted Ways With Chávez, saying that "...all Venezuelans, from every social stratum, are responsible for the institutional decay that we are witnessing." (Sounds as if he's confused with Washington, DC.)


....and with CNN and assorted propagandistic newspapers, it's a deluge!


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Baduel's name came up in that memo. Also, our State Department
has been saying the election is not being monitored and that is being astro turfed to a degree. I just caught it again in the Chicago Tribune. It's a lie.

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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. See post 65 on this thread. Yes, it IS a lie.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. How did the Ambassador do this morning?
He's a well spoken man whose job just got a lot harder.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Very well spoken, patient with ignorant calls. Appealing for respect for Venezuelan people.
He reiterated most of the points he gave in the Nov. 20 speech in DC, on the new Constitutional provisions they are voting on today.



Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez Herrera
Photo Credit: Chris Leck
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. The last time I saw him was on a Link program where
he had to counter the RCTV smear. You would have to be very patient to do what he does.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
68. "Firehosed" is EXACTLY the perfect word to describe what they've done to us.
I have NEVER seen a propaganda storm even one fourth the intensity in frequency and space taken as this unbelievable #### storm of non-stop anti-Chavez crap. It's so blatant, you'd ordinarily think it would cause some of these clowns to wonder if they actually have been given the truth about Venezuela at all! But no, you've seen their brain-dead remarks.

They'll only take it all as an indication they are REALLY ON THE RIGHT TRACK about all this. They don't have the ability to to question, to test, to study what they think they know, and look for answers if they discover they have any questions. That's why they're right-wingers.

For the Venezuelan operatives in Miami to discourage voting in their own referendum shows they know their side is in trouble doing things the right way. Same with Republicans here. To get the power they all want, since the public wouldn't give it to them on a dare, knowing their total lack of decency, they have to murder and to cheat, and to steal!
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
53. Yikes. As they say, a picture says a thousand words.
It speaks for itself.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #53
61. Creepy, isn't it? In 2002, right after the coup attempt failed, Gustavo Cisneros and the elder Bush
both went to a resort in the Dominican Republic owned by Cuban "exile" sugar baron family, Pepe and Alfie Fanjul, who also own sugar plantations in South Florida and the Dominican Republic (having once owned vast sugar holdings in Cuba) and these two men had a personal vacation together over days, presumably discussing Venezuela.

Gustavo Cisneros is also of Cuban descent, although he lives in Venezuela and owns a lot of Venezuelan media, sports teams, cola company, beer company, etc. His next door neighbor, Roberto Alonso, is a prominent anti-Chavez militant who has been involved in two different plots to kill Chavez, who has always advocated violent protest against Hugo Chavez, a violent activity termed "guarimba."

The man who compiled and wrote Cisneros' fawning biography is a well-known Miami Herald journalist, Pablo Bachelet, upon whom they can always count to push right-wing extremist propaganda from the Herald.



Photos of the Cuban "exile" sugar corporate welfare recipient, receiving multiple millions per year just in subsidies, (paid by US consumers), Pepe Fanjul, who was one of the Dominican Island resort hosts to Cisneros and Bush #41 immediately after the kidnapping of Chavez and the coup:





Brother, Alfie, and Pepe and Alfie and wives

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/socialdiary/2003/socialdiary09_25_03.php
http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/socialdiary/2006/02_03_06/socialdiary02_03_06.php
http://newyorksocialdiary.com/socialdiary/2005/01_18_05/socialdiary01_18_05.php


The Fanjuls were the subject of a class suit for their exploitation and inhuman working conditions inflicted upon desperately poor labor, most of it imported from the Caribbean to toil in horrendous conditions at their Florida sugar cane plantation.

Important articles on the two sugar 'gentlemen' and their fiendish, exploitive abuse of human workers:
Bitter Sugar
http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-08-26/news/bitter-sugar/

THE POLITICS OF SUGAR
S U G A R ' S
F I R S T F A M I L Y
http://www.opensecrets.org/pubs/cashingin_sugar/sugar08.html

From Vanity Fair,
by Marie Brenner

at her website, click on the title:
IN THE KINGDOM OF BIG SUGAR

http://mariebrenner.com/articles.html
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
70. Chavez: "People at CNN, listen carefully: This is just a warning." (Do not interfere with process)
(Chavez) also spoke of the destabilization and misrepresentation of Venezuela by the international corporate media and threatened, "If any international channel comes here to take part in an operation by imperialism against Venezuela your reporters will be thrown out of the country, they will not be able to work here," Chavez said. "People at CNN, listen carefully: This is just a warning."

If the opposition private TV channel Globovision, "takes part in the game of imperialism" and if they violate Venezuelan law by publishing premature or false election results before polls close, they will be taken off air immediately, Chavez said as the crowd responded, chanting, "That is how one governs."




Yet, in OUR own country, we have a cousin of Jeb and George W. Bush, John Ellis, calling the 2000 Election at 2:16 AM for George W. Bush on Fox News (sic), when all the votes were not yet counted.


This is what it comes down to, people. The harsh reality.


This is our fight now.


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
33. Apparently the same opposition newspapers are calling for violence, again.
Edited on Sat Dec-01-07 11:02 AM by Judi Lynn
Venezuelan Vice president warned to opposition violent groups that most of the people want to live in peace
ABN 28/11/2007
Caracas, Distrito Capital

Caracas, Nov 28th (ABN).- Venezuela Vice President Jorge Rodríguez warned to violent groups belong to the opposition sector, which insist on promoting destabilization and violence to suspend the referendum to take place next December 2 nd, that most of the people want to live in peace.

Rodríguez made these remarks during an interview broadcast Wednesday in the private TV station Venevisión.

During the interview, Rodríguez made reference to a masthead published in a national newspaper, the title reads as follows: 'Next Thursday could end this hell.'

He mentioned that the masthead was published in the same newspaper that on April 2002 titled the march planned for April 11th as follows: 'The final battle will be on Miraflores,' (The Presidential Palace).

(snip/...)http://www.abn.info.ve/go_news5.php?articulo=112339

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
34. Did you know one of the opposition groups was created in Washington? I didn't, until a moment ago.
Found it in this article, when I was looking for more information on "guarimbas," the violent protests which have been promoted by various high-profile opposition militant leaders:
~snip~
Yesterday provided us with a clear example. Manuel Rosales (president of Un Nuevo Tiempo (UNT), governor of Zulia state, 2006 candidate for president), who is seen as many as the ‘head’ of the opposition held court in the Portuguese embassy with representatives from all European Union (EU) ambassadors in the country. His line: “Chávez’s perpetual reelection will harm your interests and your liberty in this country.”

He also complained that the opposition doesn’t have the same influence over the population as the government and insisted that they are not forming a ‘plan B’ as was widely circulated around the 2006 elections. (Far-right politicos and websites such as www.NoticieroDigital.com made many ominous statements in the lead up to the elections such as ‘December 3rd is not as important as what we do on December 4th .’ The plans included among other things the return of opposition ‘guarimbas’ –violent street blockades and destabalization efforts— which played a prominent role during the bosses' strike of 2002-3. For more detail, see George Ciccariello Maher's analysis in 'Plans B, C and D' at http://www.counterpunch.org/maher11252006.html). As always, however, Rosales here gives the lie to himself. Venezuelans sympathetic to the Bolivarian Revolution often see the opposition as both 1.) so without domestic support that they must depend on foreign allies such as the United States, the Vatican, and etc; and 2.) culturally made up either of European immigrants brought over during the dictatorships and the oil booms to fill an immediate need for highly skilled in the petrol and financial sectors of the economy OR (and perhaps more importantly) as a self-styled elite demographic centered in Caracas and Maracaibo who see themselves as White, European, and entirely above the mestizo and black majority of the country.
(snip)

Primero Justicia (PJ), the Washington-founded opposition party has been focusing on the ostensible constitutionality of the reforms being voted en-bloc rather than one-by-one. Their position is that the supreme court needs to rule on the ambiguously worded Article 344 of the existing constitution which allows for the reform to be voted upon in either manner. They have conducted national surveys, held rallies, marches, press conferences – the normal course of events in a political campaign – missing the opportunity to actually debate the issues of the reform.
(snip/...)
http://gringo-venezolano.blogspot.com/2007/09/la-reforma-or-yet-another-self-imposed.html
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
36. In a medium biased against Chavez, at least the picture are positive:
Edited on Sat Dec-01-07 11:38 AM by mogster


From this negatively biased article (NO):
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2007/12/01/519893.html

To follow the situation in V. from a country far away is a strange thing, you get the filtered conservative articles like this, containing Chavez' 'exclamations' in the fact box, and no data you can trust.

Earlier this year, when the TV channel RCTV didn't get their license renewed, there was a huge hubbub in the Norw. media about how Chavex was anti free speech, and an interesting episode occured when Norwegian Cathrine Koester Hauger, a supposed random eye witness in the town of Maracaibo, called the paper and said 'there's chaos in whole of Venezuela'. She was bylined as being an aid-worker, working for the org. AFF.
Now, if you investigate a bit, the three letter org. AFF stands for Alliance For the Family, a catholic conservative organization with ties to the US counterparts.
AFF is a non profit, tax-exempt organization order section 501 (c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code, based in Washington DC, that has interest in networking with American and Hispanic organizations that share its objectives and concerns, both in the United States and abroad.
http://www.allianceforfamily.org/
It is a part of a larger scheme:
http://www.worldcongress.org/WCFUpdate/Archive05/wcf_update_503.htm
The chapter in Latin-America operates from Venezuela, and is lead by Christine Vollmer, an orthodox catholic who is a member of Council for National Policy. The org. is a repub religious setup with members like Dick Armey, the LaHaye's, Trent Lott, Jack Abramoff and other well known names.
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnpbase.html
http://www.seekgod.ca/1998cnp.htm

So innocent eyewitnesses reporting to the media are usually not so innocent, and are working actively against Chavez. Koester Hauger has been very active against the Norw. media, and they never tell us that she's a part of the political opposition, but portray her as an innocent bystander, telling us all what she sees.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. mogster: that's how I busted the AP in the first place.
They put out a story about state violence against a student protest.

When I studied the Reuters photos, the images told the opposite narrative. It was opposition student protestors that were behaving in a violent manner. And, they looked much smaller in number than reported. And, there was a bigger crowd of (peaceful) students marching in support.

It took about two days before a correction was issued. And that correction was only put out by Reuters although the story was astro turfed by all our major outlets. :wow:
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Yeah
I sometimes wonder how much of what we consume as pure happenstance, like eyewitnesses, bystanders and 'people that just happened to be on the scene', that really is carefully placed information by paid information agents, or people politically involved.

But the media isn't innocent. Like in your example, they take part, and they always take part for the conservative side.
I call it 'the venezuelification' of the media:
http://www.iterapi.com/index.php?cat=72&art=355

Both in Norway and in the US, today the media is in misstep with the population's political wishes and the population's need for information. It's very worrying.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I am horrified to hear this about Norway! I visited there in the '70s and was
very impressed with the people and their socialist democracy. Two things were pending at the time. EU membership (they voted it down), and they'd just discovered North Sea oil, and were taking stringent measures to insure use of the profits for the benefit of all of the people, and to minimize the corrupt influence of the "gold rush" oil boondoggle economy that might hit local towns. They were very smart people, it seemed to me, with a fabulous train and boat transportation system, and reverence for, and vast government funding for, the arts. I don't agree with their whaling policy, but then it's very difficult to end an indigenous industry, with roots back to the Icelandic sagas. Aside from that, they seemed to do everything RIGHT.

I hate to hear that their news media has gone over to the dark side, like ours has. I don't know much about how it is organized, but I imagine that global corporate predator news monopolies are involved--as here, and as in Venezuela. It's shocking that the Norwegians would put up with that. I hope there are Norwegian activists who are doing something about it. Norwegians have a lot more power, as citizens, than we do. They could actually throw fascist/corporate news monopolies out of their country, sooner rather than later, if they got organized. We have a long struggle ahead of us before we can do that--achieve true "freedom of the press," with multiple viewpoints presented, and wider public access to the broadcasting airwaves (which the public OWNS). (Did you know that Thomas Jefferson advocated public financing of newspapers--with no content control--to insure variety of opinion, and freedom from big business influence? Interesting idea.)
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Hi Peace Patriot
Things are changing also here, and this is much due to the influention from the corp. world abroad, and the media ownership like in the US. There are still 'good' media that will report unbiased, but the media the majority watch/read are adopting the way of the 'trash' media; strong conservative/corp. bias (and anti-left bias, whatever the 'left' means) and fluffy, crime-oriented news reporting. It's the 'feel good'-people :P

It takes time before people wakes up to 'new media', here as in the US. It's a difficult matter to handle for any population. You have Bush to wake people up, because not even biased media can cover up his ways. Norwegian journalism has taken a solid turn to the right, and the normally peace-oriented Norw. population follows as their information is unbalanced. They get all of the terror, and none of the Bush criticism, if you know what I mean. Public funding of media has it's merits, and there should be more public funded media outlets and more money for the ordinary citizen wanting to inform other citizens, no doubt.

Thanks for answering. And for caring :-)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I don't think it is exactly for the conservative side.
The corporate side?

The powerful side?

I'm not sure what the category is.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Yep, that's a point
And maybe the religious-revolutionary side? ;-)

Nothing is like it was, conservative means revolutionary, while the liberals becomes the conservative lot, wanting brakes put on.

I so NOT like politics :crazy:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
71. Thanks for opening the eyes of some of us who were not aware this has been happening in Norway.
It seems the Scandanavian countries have always been portrayed here as being deeply liberal!

Hoping the change in direction is only momentary, and the country will be back on course SOON.

Thank you for that great photo of Hugo Chavez. He does look a little tired, doesn't he? A couple of the men around him look very watchful. He is undoubtedly in great danger any time until the right-wing is finally shown it's not going to control the world any longer.

Here's a photo of a sign carried by an opposition member in a demonstration a couple of years ago in Venezuela:

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BornagainDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. The counter-revolution will be televised. hee, hee
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm sure multinational corporate interests and some Western governments, like the U.S.,....
.... are not at all supporting this destabilization, right? I mean, this is nothing like the corporate-backed overthrow and murder of Allende by Pinochet, right?

:sarcasm:
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
49. k & r
for explaining the truth behind the curtain.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. Kicking & Recommending!
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. Saturday: Pro-Constitutional Reform Closes Campaign with Massive Rally in Venezuela
Edited on Sat Dec-01-07 09:51 PM by seafan
Pro-Constitutional Reform Closes Campaign with Massive Rally in Venezuela

by Kiraz Janicke
December 1st 2007



Rally in support of President Chavez's constitutional reform (ABN)


Caracas, December 1, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com) - In a hard-hitting speech Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez told over 500,000 supporters at the final campaign rally in favor of the proposed constitutional reform on Friday, "If the ‘yes' vote wins on Sunday and the Venezuelan oligarchy, playing the empire's game, comes with their little stories of fraud," he will suspend all oil shipments to the U.S immediately. "The U.S. will not receive one drop of oil," he declared. Chavez also warned private media against promoting violence and destabilization after the referendum.

Beginning in the early hours of the morning, a sea of red filled Avenida Bolivar, the capital's principal boulevard and overflowed into Avenidas Mexico, Lecuna, San Martin, and Universidad, dwarfing an opposition rally of around 200,000 the day before, as Chavez supporters wearing T-shirts emblazoned with ‘Yes to the reforms' danced and sang as they waited for Chavez who spoke at 5 in the afternoon.
Perusing the crowd through a pair of binoculars, Chavez announced, "The avenida Bolivar is full, overflowing on the north and south, over there avenida Lecuna and avenida Universidad are full. The Bolivarian people are here saying ‘Yes.'"

.....

He also emphasized that the vote on Sunday represents more than simply a vote on the reforms. "To vote ‘yes', is a vote for Chavez and the revolution, to vote ‘No' is a vote for Bush," he said.
"We are not simply confronting the pawns of imperialism, those that play the dirty game of imperialism here," he said referring to the opposition, "Our true enemy is US imperialism." .....
"They (opposition) say they will only recognize the results if they win ... and they will take to the streets," Chavez told the rally. "Fine. We'll see you in the streets then, we are not afraid."

.....

He also spoke of the destabilization and misrepresentation of Venezuela by the international corporate media and threatened, "If any international channel comes here to take part in an operation by imperialism against Venezuela your reporters will be thrown out of the country, they will not be able to work here," Chavez said. "People at CNN, listen carefully: This is just a warning."
If the opposition private TV channel Globovision, "takes part in the game of imperialism" and if they violate Venezuelan law by publishing premature or false election results before polls close, they will be taken off air immediately, Chavez said as the crowd responded, chanting, "That is how one governs."

.....

Dr Graciela Angarita, an orthopedic surgeon who attended the rally also criticized the international media portrayal of Venezuela and told Venezuelanalysis.com, "The truth is the majority of people support the president and the reforms."
"The government has done a lot for the people," she said and pointed to the social missions, which provide free education and healthcare. She explained that under previous governments there was a lot of repression and the poor were excluded.

"This is a revolution that is going to spread across all of Latin America," she added.

.....



Good wishes to the people of Venezuela on Sunday.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-01-07 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
54. Lordy, Lordy! Can You Imagine The US Having Such a Policy?
We could call it Anti-Terrorism, Domestic!

Of course, the only reason Chavez can do this is he isn't breaking any laws to begin with, and the elections are monitored....
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Dave From Canada Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
58. The website you linked to is just a pro-Chavez mouthpiece.
King Hugo in his own words:

"If God gives me life and help," Chavez told supporters Friday, "I will be at the head of the government until 2050!"
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071202/D8T99U200.html

And with his new "Constitutional reforms", he'll have control over the central bank, be able to detain citizens without charge in times of "emergency", redraw the country's political map, and handpick provincial and municiple leaders. Cause who needs to elect those right? I'm sure King Hugo knows best.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Ven Analisis is more accurate than the New York Times, who
reported on Friday that the elections would not be monitored when that is a falsehood. It may be pro Chavez but they do not fabricate like our so called paper of record.
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Dave From Canada Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #60
80. It's a Chavez mouthpiece. They would never criticize Dear Leader. Especially when he has the power
to shut them down.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. As usual, no substance just invective. Check. n/t
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
65. Chavez will still be subject to the people's direction via recall referendums and re-elections.
So this *dictator for life* meme is a falsehood. The Venezuelan people can remove a public official from office at midterm by a recall vote. Would that Americans had that opportunity!


Also, the Ambassador of Venezuela to the US said on Washington Journal this morning that it is ridiculous that another falsehood is being pushed about the lack of election monitoring. He said they have monitors in place from 135 (if I heard correctly) countries to do just that.

CNE: More than 80 international observers will monitor referendum process



We, here in America, are the people who are being repressed by our own government.


Whether it's our election process, our legal rights, our civil rights, our privacy rights, our rights to free speech and to peaceful assembly, our rights to habeas corpus and a multitude of other jackbooted violations.... we are the people being oppressed.


And this regime does not want us to think about it.


So the regime projects what THEY THEMSELVES ARE DOING onto the duly elected leader of another country, in this case, Venezuela.


It won't work any more.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Our own State Department is proving that the memo is not a fake.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 12:10 PM by sfexpat2000
How do you like that. The second arm of the pliers is to taint the election. As soon as I read the "no monitoring, claims of fraud" in the NYTs on Friday, I knew something was really on. And this morning, I see a direct quote from State. Bastards.

Here is the Chicago Tribune article:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-chavez_avila_nudec02,1,743156.story?page=2
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Well I guess a copy is to much to ask..
considering they went to all the trouble to intercept and decrypt a cable transmission. They could at least scan a copy and email it to a media outlet of their choice. Pravda whatever. You REALLY think Venezuela has the technology to intercept and decrypt a us communication. Do you have any idea how complex those systems are.

And if they could break our diplomatic cypher you think they would admit it? We would then change the cyphers so they would no longer be able to read.

Did you read the language in that document. read it, then go to read some fisa released cia documents.

You will not a significant difference in the language used. "sworn enemy" and other drama tend not to be in high level communication.

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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
75. DLC users here will automatically side with the "poor" Rich Venezuelans...
They are one and the same, wealthy folks with a sense of entitlement and inherent ownership of the planet.
The actual poor down there are just mush brain sheep lead by a populist monster.. How could these Peons possibly know what they do by giving a man the chance to stand for reelection? or Executive order that allows the president to call a national Emergency? or equal rights to GLBT? FOOLS! the Rich should own Venezuela!

I dont think any of them will be happy until an installed dictator is back in power funneling the countrys wealth back into the states.

You notice they get to vote on that Law? when did the US citizenry vote on the Bushes National Emergency plan?
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Dave From Canada Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Nobody hear is in any way supporting Bush. When will Hugobots realize that opposing Chavez
doesn't mean you support Bush. And nobody said the rich should own Venezuela. Strawman.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. The word is "here". n/t
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. yea yea.. ok nobody said it.. we agree on that.
What we don't agree on is what they actually want.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. There's also a huge issue of "race".
Those dark people are getting just a little too assertive for the oligarchy.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
76. RadioVenezuela: Peaceful voting, less than 1 hour left before polls close.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 02:28 PM by seafan
Venezuela's vote will end at 4pm local time. (1 hour ahead of Eastern Time Zone in US)

No media outlet is permitted to give any tallies until polls close.


Links here, with thanks to Peace Patriot, who posted these earlier:



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Thank you, seafan!
:hi:
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. Y're welcome,sfexpat2000! What a day. n/t
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