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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:40 PM
Original message
Are you willing to pay higher taxes?
If it means

Universal health care
Quality education
Social programs for the most vulnerable
A prison system that focuses on rehabilitation
Solid infrastructure
Subsidies for clean industry
Redistribution of wealth


Because if not, then you can forget about ever turning this ship that is the United States of America around. Who here is willing join the rest of the civilized world and say it's about "we" instead of about "me"?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. yeah
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. No, I am not. We can have everything you name without raising taxes
we just have to stop feeding the MIC.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That's true, too.
But if the question is really -- are these your priorities and would you be willing to sacrifice some in order to have them -- then yeppers, I would.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well, we do have to put some taxes back to proper levels. Income from capital should be
taxed the same as income from labor. Wealthy people who live on their investments shouldn't pay less in taxes than people who have the same income but work for it and actually EARN it.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. yep, I totally agree... labor is way over-taxed right now..
while investments are not. That's not really fair at all.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. exactly.
Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 09:46 PM by QuestionAll
the money going down the iraq shithole alone would have been able to provide for a lot of that list.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. $20,000 US per family
To your point, the cost of Afghanistan and Iraq Wars:

$20,000 USD per family.



'Hidden Costs' Double Price Of Two Wars, Democrats Say


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/12/AR2007111202008.html?referrer=emailarticle

The economic costs to the United States of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan so far total approximately $1.5 trillion, according to a new study by congressional Democrats that estimates the conflicts' "hidden costs"-- including higher oil prices, the expense of treating wounded veterans and interest payments on the money borrowed to pay for the wars.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sure thing. nt
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Fed_Up_Grammy Donating Member (923 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. No !
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. Why is that?
What would you do in order to pay for those things?

:shrug:
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not to support a "permanent presence in Iraq."
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not one cent of the federal income.....
tax you pay goes towards any of those things. It all goes into the pockets of IBs. According to the Grace commission. So no I am not!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yup. . Actually, for a starter, I'd be happy if I could be sure that
my money wouldn't just go straight into CronyPockets.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not until my taxes stop funding the Empire. (nt)
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hell yes, but .....
We need to eliminate "corporate personhood" and get the tax rate on the rich up. The nonsense of CEO's with payday's 100 or more times that of the guy on the floor has got to stop.

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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
48. I'm with you there---tax the rich, offshore accounts, and spread the wealth
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Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. I am paying higher taxes
And I'm not seeing government use that dough for anything on your list right now.

Over the course of the past seven years I have seen my property taxes double. And that middle class tax cut we have heard so much about kind of got erased by that VAT I have worked my way into.

I think we can get the things on your list if the government stops allowing corporate welfare, no bid contracts, massive black ops budgets, and mercenary armies to drain the national coffers.
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smitty Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. No, raising taxes is not a panacea. I like to keep the money I
earn, I can spend it much more wisely than any city, county, state or national government.
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Mutineer Donating Member (659 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. There is adequate money to pay for those things without raising taxes
but it would mean the end to legislators pet projects like bridges to nowhere. Not to mention a certain war in iraq which is bleeding the treasury dry. Raising taxes is not the real issue here. It's budget reform. No more pet projects.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. No. The gov't needs to clean up fraud, waste and war first
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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. No.
See posts #16-#18.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. for me its always been about we and not me
I have no problems with paying taxes and never had. this world would be so much better for all people if we all worked toward the common good some not for only me all the damn time like so many do.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. Some of the higher taxes would be off-set by the health care premiums
now paid by the employer/employee..

If the employer's share is $400 a month and the employee's share is 200, that employee would be getting a $600 a month RAISE..and would suddenly be free to change jobs for a better job if he/she found one.. THAT one thing would cause emplyers to have to start paying actual raises to keep employees from bolting for greener pastures...and it would mean real raises for people..not the "well I'm giving you a $50 a week raise, but your co-pay doubled and your share of health care went up $80.00 a week"..

Employers could go back to offering a WAGE for a job done, and would have less reason to go snooping through employees "personal lives" too

If they are no longer paying for health care, it's none of their business what medications you take, or if you drink or smoke on your own time..
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. what makes you think that the employer's share would convert to employee wages?
Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 10:36 PM by QuestionAll
i don't see that happening.

the employee's share, taken directly from the paycheck, yes- but the employer will find other uses for their would-be former contribution.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. techincally, they are included as "employess benefits" and have been used as
an "instead of a raise" tool for decades.. Unions especially have had this one pulled on the,.. They routinely take LESS wages, in order to have the benefits, and employers always INCLUDE those bennies when they tell the employees how much they are REALLY being paid, so I would certainly think those monies SHOULD start going to the employees..

That withheld-for-health care money is probably why "wages have been flat".. Instead of raises going to the employees, it's been siphoned off to insurance companies & HMOs..
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. it might happen for some union workers...
but by and large, i'd be willing to bet that the employer portion will remain just that.
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. Employee wages would rise through competition if people could seek new jobs witout concern for...
health benefits from employers. Your health benefits should not be dependent on where you work. This ties people to a particular employer and discourages people from looking for new jobs, which is the main method for most people to obtain better pay.

An older person or a person with a family that needs health insurance is at a disadvantage in a job search. Employers expect to pay higher premiums for those people and either offer lower pay or completely eliminate these people from consideration.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #37
46. and any raises are usually "take-aways" anyway, since every raise
is coupled with an increase in the employee's share of healthcare..

It's indentured servitude, and as much as employers complain, secretly, they love it..

We were held hostage to a job my husband hated, but our firstborn required a lot of medical help, and we could not get insurance on our own, or when he checked into other job, he was told that our son would not qualify for a specified amount of time, and would have limited coverage..(the was at a time when he was having surgery at Mayo Clinic, 4-6 times a year)..so we were tethered to that company..and they knew that my husband would jump through any hoops they wanted him to..
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. Absolutely.
AND I want more of what goes to war now to go to caring for people and bringing jobs, as well as soldiers, home.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. Maybe
I'm one of the people who pay WAY more into taxes than I get back in services and other benefits.

If you want me to pay more, you'll have to show me a detailed cost-benefit analysis so I can decide whether or not your specific proposal is worthwhile.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. No. I'm for the Top 1% paying higher taxes.
:-|
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. Change the frame
are you willing to pay higher service fees to live in this society?

And my answer is YES

The investment usually pays with dividends
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Absolutely, unequivocally, YES...
All those things are certainly worth paying more taxes to me!

K&R
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. Tax the rich and tax their overseas bank accounts.
Add taxing the churches to that, and we'd have enough to pay for all those services without raising the taxes for the other 99% of the population.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. I would only agree to pay higher taxes
if all those filthy rich bastards had to pay higher taxes ... and I mean a LOT higher taxes. It's not fair that they get to skate while the rest of us carry the burden.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
33. Yes. And under the right administration I would be willing to pay higher taxes
to pay down this horrendous bill we have left our kids and grandkids.
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. Nope,
I am already over taxed and can barely afford to live. This year I just got my property tax bill and it went up $400, that is $400 I did not have nor was I expecting, I fucking had to take out a payday loan just to pay my property taxes so I did not lose my home.

I suggest that the government stop wasting money on bullshit programs like NASA and the defense department before they ask me to foot more money I don't have.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. While the Defense Department is the lion's share of taxes
you realize that NASA is less than what one percent of the US Budget, ON A GOOD YEAR?

My god, people should get informed

Oh and by the way... those property taxes have gone up nationwide because local governments have lost federal grants due to the war in Iraq

Oh and in case you wonder, many of those programs which were once funded are mandatory
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. Less than 1% is still a lot of fucking money for a bullshit program.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. I would pay more for a better functioning society.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
38. definitely
I'm in the bottom 20% of income earners thanks to my crap jobs, but I'd be willing to pay much more in taxes to have those things for everybody (not just me). If universal health care meant people even worse off would have their basic health needs met, I'm all for it. But I do realize your list is probably a pipe dream at this point; too much selfishness and libertarianism in American society to make it work.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. Yes, as long as that includes a halt to corporate welfare
Many of the things you have listed are a spit in the ocean compared to corpoate welfare.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
40. After the top 1% income "earners" (meaning they make the money off
of every one else's back) and corporate welfare is stopped DEAD IN ITS TRACKS.....Yeah! Count me in!

Until then....nah.

Peace,
M_Y_H
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
41. The economic assets of a country are like a big pie. You can allocate the pie to war and boondoggle-
or you can allocate the pie to health care, education, infrastructure, research and development, etc., that is you SHIFT the funds, NOT increase them.

A study of the REAL cost of the Iraq war to date indicates that it has reached a trillion dollars so far, and there is no end in sight. That money alone would cover universal health care and improvements in education.

The U.S. sends several billions of dollars each year to Saudia Arabia and other Middle Eastern oil states. When you add in the billions of oil profits each year to Big Oil and you have the price of upgrading our infrastructure. Pass laws mandating better gas mileage for cars as was done after the "Arab oil embargo" in the 1970's and you reduce demand for oil, stabilize its price, and you save billions of dollars to spend in America.

Last, but not least, the loss of jobs to Asia, as much as the tax cuts for the rich, has drained the federal treasury due to the fact that Chinese workers don't pay taxes to the U.S., but American workers do. One gigantic boost in revenue to pay for all of the goodies mentioned in this post is to change the trade laws to bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.

Increase jobs and you increase the tax base and generate lots of revenue. There is no need to raise taxes. Just stop wasting them on wars, gas-guzzling cars, huge, unwarranted profits for big oil and big insurance and you can have all the goodies you want.
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
42. of course. n/t
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geek_sabre Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
43. hmm
Universal health care-perhaps, though I'm not impressed with any plans so far. We need to come up with a system that will work for 300,000,000+ people. We need to make sure that we can sustain a universal system without compromising innovation in the medical technology/pharmaceutical industry. We need to see success at a city, state, and regional level before wasting our time and money trying to turn the US into Europe overnight.

Quality education- yes, but not until there is a serious plan to change the system (ie, throwing money at failing schools doesn't make the students learn) We need to reform our entire preK-12 education system.

Social programs for the most vulnerable- sure

A prison system that focuses on rehabilitation- sure

Solid infrastructure- sure

Subsidies for clean industry- Yes, though I think removing subsidies from businesses that aren't ecologically sound is more important

Redistribution of wealth- Hell no. The only real way to narrow the gap between rich and poor is through education. Fix the education system, encourage people not to drop out of high school, discourage materialism and living outside of one's means, and promote saving, investing money, and an entrepreneurship. Giving everyone the tools to help themselves is the only long-term solution.

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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
44. We shouldn't have to pay higher taxes. Stop wasteful spending
on the military budget, and raise taxes on the rich. If we had universal health care, corporations would be more apt to build here instead of Canada.
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-27-07 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
47. Yes
I don't mind paying taxes if I get something back for it or if it improves someone else's life.
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