"Special right," my ass. Obama said on the 700 Club that

[rateyes]

gay spouses have the INHERENT right, not a "SPECIAL RIGHT" to visit their spouse in the hospital, and that ALL people, gay or straight, should be treated EQUALLY. And, OMG, I'll bet that some gay spouses who visit their husband/wife in the hospital might actually be "prayerful" about their spouse's condition!! :sarcasm:

Again, I'm not voting for Obama, but those who want to jump on him for using the word "prayerful" need to give it a rest. That's as intolerant as the fundies are.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Would you be so understanding if Hillary had said it?

[rateyes]

3. Yes, I would.

I'm not voting for either one of them. Much ado about nothing.

[maddiejoan]

2. If Obama truly believes this --

-- why isn't he in favor of same-sex marriage?

[rateyes]

4. I don't know. I didn't know he wasn't.

Same reason, I suppose, that Hillary supported The Defense of Marriage Act.

[maddiejoan]

6. Why are you bringing up Hillary?

What does she have to do with this discussion?

[rateyes]

9. Because it was a Hillary supporter,

who was blasting Obama in another thread. I don't think it to be inconsistent to be opposed, in general, to gay marriage, while at the same time recognizing a gay marriage and the rights of gay married couples to be treated the same as heterosexual married couples.

[maddiejoan]

14. I think it's damned inconsistent.

Is it an inherent right or not? Are we equal citizens or not?

[EFerrari]

30. It's not but the difference between personal belief and public policy.

Citizens have the right to disagree and are expected to uphold the law. During these endlessly expensive (and profitable) campaigns, those lines get all fouled up.

[maddiejoan]

35. Sorry.

He's talking out both sides of his mouth here.

[EFerrari]

36. Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out that a person

could disagree with equality but also, uphold the law.

[LostinVA]

18. Hillary doesn't support DOMA

[rodeodance]

10. He is against same sex MARRIAGE-but for civil unions

[maddiejoan]

16. Then he doesn't really believe in equality.

Only candidate that does , it seems, is Dennis Kucinich.

[sandnsea]

41. His church performs same sex marriages

He isn't against them, he just thinks the rights can be extended through civil unions quicker, that's all.

[GodlessBiker]

5. The fact is that many, many people seek inspiration and solace through prayer.

It makes no sense to ignore those voters.

[Tyler Durden]

25. Inspiration and Solace are just fine.

They get that in the local UCC church, along with LGTB members and joint prayer services with the Flint Islamic center.

There's nothing wrong with being religious. There IS something VERY WRONG with being "religious" and a stinking bigot using that belief for cover.

[GodlessBiker]

37. Should he take a meeting with a leader of a country that executes gay people?

In other words, as a candidate, he should not talk to Americans who disagree with him; but as president (or even as a candidate), he should talk to the leaders of countries who disagree with him?

[Tyler Durden]

38. THAT country is not THIS country.

There's a difference here. Of course the leader of this nation would have to speak with leaders of other and hostile nations: he or she just doesn't have to go on their version of the "Today" show for coffee and donuts and smoozing.

HAVING to talk to Kim Jong Il is something you hold your nose and do. Going on "The 700 Club" when the person who runs that show made it clear he thinks GOD almost wiped NOLA off the map because of Gay People is bullshit.

[Bluebear]

42. You said it. nt

[BuyingThyme]

7. 700 Club? Fox News all full up?

[Neecy]

8. what's wrong with 'prayerful'?

I've known two lesbians who were deeply, and I mean *deeply* religious (I dated one of them, and attended church services with her for the first time since I wore a size 6X) and I don't think it's a terribly shocking thing to say. To each their own, and there are active GLBT faith groups in all religions.

[rateyes]

12. Nothing wrong with it...

I should have used the :sarcasm: smilie. I'll make the edit.

[Neecy]

26. gotcha....

Okay, here's my take on this: I'm glad he's going on programming such as the hateful, intolerent 700C and knocking down the 'special rights' nonsense. If it makes even one person in the viewing audience actually stop and think it's not a bad thing.

I want a president who can lay the groundwork for my civil rights. And I think that's what he's doing. Fine by me.

[EFerrari]

11. What was he doing on the 700 Club?

He's going for the intolerant vote now?

Sheesh.

[rodeodance]

13. yes, I had the same question.

[rateyes]

15. I don't know...

I guess he figures that evangelicals vote. Probably the same reason other Democratic candidates attend Catholic fundraisers, or suck up to people like Rupert Murdoch. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

17. Between this and Sanchez giving the Democratic address last time

I just feel like shaking someone. :shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

27. I feel like SLAPPING someone.

If Obama wants to appeal to some off the wall fringe group, why doesn't he declare as a Republican and get it over with?

Hell, if he did THAT, Hillary Clinton couldn't get elected dog catcher.

[Tyler Durden]

20. I know evangelicals who think the 700 Club is for morons.

I'm sorry, but Obama is digging a hole that I won't join him in.

Pat Robertson is the guy who said that Katrina was punishment for toleration of homosexuality. Barack Obama has gone from lying down with the dogs to just lying down in their shit.

[goodgd_yall]

49. I think it was that other guy who died a while ago

whose name I can't remember that said Katrina was punishment for homosexuality---not Pat Robertson.

[Tyler Durden]

50. If not specifically, then generally:

From one of the "sites which shall not be named" for Robertson's views on such things:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46737

I won't cut and paste, and you really don't have to go there: same ol' song and dance.

[LostinVA]

21. There's a huge difference between Catholics and fundies

You can't compare Dems campaigning at Catholic fundraisers to pandering to Pat Robertson and ex-gay ministries.

[rateyes]

23. Not a huge difference when it comes to

gay rights and abortion rights.

[LostinVA]

24. Well, the Catholic Church doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin

Nor do they believe it can be changed.

That's a pretty big difference.

Plus, many Catholics disagree with the official stance of the Church hierarchy. The same can't be said for fundies. When I got married, most of the guests were Catholic. My grand-FIL is even head of the Knights of Columbus.

[rateyes]

28. I must have missed the memo....

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/Homosexuality/default.asp

They think abortion is a sin. And, I'm pretty sure that they are opposed to "the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships.

[LostinVA]

32. American Catholic is a weird spin-off of the Catholic Church

And I stand by what I said earlier, MOST Catholics do not agree with the the official stance of the Church hierarchy. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most liberal states with the most rights for gays are predominantly Catholic states.

[Hoof Hearted]

46. Oh REALLY? Why did the Catholic Church abandon orphans rather than let gays adopt?

Hmmmmmmmm?

In a stunning turn of events, Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley and leaders of Catholic Charities of Boston announced yesterday that the agency will end its adoption work, deciding to abandon its founding mission, rather than comply with state law requiring that gays be allowed to adopt children.

The Rev. J. Bryan Hehir, president of Catholic Charities of Boston, and Jeffrey Kaneb, chairman of the board, said that after much reflection and analysis, they could not reconcile church teaching that placement of children in gay homes is ''immoral" with Massachusetts law prohibiting discrimination against gays.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/03/11/catholic_charities_stuns_state_ends_adoptions/

What a bunch of shite.

Edit to add: This is the tip of the fuckin' iceberg, but of course most people already know that.

[Tyler Durden]

51. Isn't it as long as you don't DO anything about it?

Sort of like it's ok to be gay as long as you're celibate?

[LostinVA]

52. It's an odd catch-22

You're not supposed to do anything about, because it's sex outside of marriage and they don't recognize gay marriage.

That being said, I know priests who personally disagree with the Church's stance on gay marriage. Haruka and I were going to have a Catholic priest read at our wedding. He's a family friend of Haruka's. Unfortunately, he couldn't come because of a severe illness in the family.

[Tyler Durden]

53. If it were me, I'd just ask God to speak up if he objects.

Just being silly, Lost.

[LostinVA]

19. He's BEEN going for the intolerant vote

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have given a speaking platform to an ex-gay clown.

[EFerrari]

22. I was hoping that was just a really stupid mistake.

The sight of politicians parsing with the lives of others is beyond disgusting.

[rucky]

29. Pay close attention to what he's doing.

He's turning their own coded language on its end. Yeah, it's a bit dishonest, but it's the best rhetorical strategy for getting through to these numbskulls, if there's any hope of it at all. Heads will explode over this. I can feel it.

[rateyes]

31. Obama seems to understand the first rule of politics...

to win, you have to get at least one more vote than your opponent.

I don't fault him for what he's doing. I'm still not voting for him, nor Hillary.

[rucky]

33. I think for him, it's more than just politics.

It's mission driven. He's inserting himself right smack in the middle of the culture wars - not accidentally. And he's approaching it in a way we've never seen before. Trust me on this - he's attempting something huge and incredably gutsy, here.

and I'm not voting for him, either, but he's earning major points in my book.

[rateyes]

34. If so,

I hope he continues, win or lose.

[sandnsea]

40. My god, how is it dishonest?

He went right into the 700 Club and supported gay rights, and a woman's right to an abortion.

The only numbskulls I see are the ones at DU who don't understand that he's turning the fundie world right on its head.

[Hoof Hearted]

39. Obama was on the 700 club? REALLY? The 700 club?

Jesus Christ.

[Chovexani]

43. If he really thinks all people should be treated equally

He should come out for full marriage equality. Funny how he says "gay spouses" when, under his plan for a fair and just system, there'd be no such thing.

If not, he's just another bullshit talking centrist pandering and talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[Bluebear]

44. Remember, though, gays are "a statistically insignificant portion of the general population."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3760092&mesg_id=3760118

[Chovexani]

45. Oh I forgot

There are more phobes than queers, so he doesn't need our votes to win.

[Aristus]

47. Because we have a sound-bite driven media, here is my sound-bite on the subject:

Special rights? Shame on you! They're ALWAYS special rights when someone else wants them; It's only when WE want them that they become 'civil' rights.

[Lil Missy]

48. I've lost interest I once had for Obama, but I agree this has been blown entirely out of proportion.

[Prophet 451]

54. OK, I'll jump on him for it

This is not a criticism of people of faith but I'm pretty sick of candidates making sure to wear the crosses on their sleeve and out-Jesus each other.