Does anyone know what the Constitutional succession is for the VP should he be removed from office?

[Pachamama]

It occurred to me this morning that I didn't know exactly and several other people I was talking with had all different understandings of what it was. (Everything from the Sec. of State, to the Speaker of the House, to the President appointing someone, to whether they needed to be confirmed by the house or Senate, to an election being held etc.). We discussed Spiro Agnew and ofcourse how Gerald Ford became VP, but we all were not certain of what the actual procedure was and with recent discussions and the introduction by Kucinich of a resolution to bring impeachment proceedings against Cheney, we wondered what it was. Many in the Democratic leadership seem to convey the fear that if Cheney was impeached, then we we might end up with someone worse than Cheney or Bush might appoint/nominate Jeb Bush (explaining why they don't want to impeach Cheney), but it was unclear to us how that would even work.

Anyone here know? :shrug:

[Bucky]

1. If the VP office is vacant, by law (not by the Constitution) the Speaker is next in line

The president appoints a replacement (according to the 22nd amendment) to the VP, subject to majority approval by both houses of Congress, at which point the speaker of the house becomes 3rd in line to the president again.

(on edit) This is spelled out rather confusingly in the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution. The rest of the Constitution just says that if the president dies, the vice president moves up a notch. All other successions to office are determined by law. Since the 1940s, the order of succession has been...
1. President (or, in case of fraud, evil monkey pretender to the office)
2. Vice President (or, in case of ditto, meglomaniacal supervillain who gave the monkey his soul-reading superpowers)
3. Speaker of the House
4. The oldest imagineable senator from the majority party
5. Secretary of State
6. Secretary of Defense
7. Billy Graham
8. Undersecretary for Protocol in the Department of Health and Human Services
9. acting-Senior Deputy of the Calcasieu Parish, Louisiana, Sheriff's office

However Congress can at anytime change the law. The 22nd Amendment allows the president to replace the Vice President with majority approval by both houses of Congress. This was made necessary by the elevation of Calvin Coolidge to the presidency in 1923, when the sitting president died, the office of Vice President was vacant, Congress was out of session, and Coolidge himself was the smartest guy who happened to be taking the White House tour that very afternoon. Talk about stroke of luck!

[Crabby Appleton]

4. Which is precisely why there would not be republican senators

voting to convict cheney if he were impeached by the house.

[Pachamama]

6. So Nancy doesn't want the job? Whose next after her? The Pro Tempure? The Sec. of State?

I don't even know who the Pro Tempure is, but we all know Condi....I guess if Nancy takes herself off the table, the Republicans and Joe Lieberman and Diane Feinstein could all get excited about Condi for VP! (And imagine W finding out he can have Condi by his side...).

[NoPasaran]

2. If the VP leaves office, the President nominates a successor

Who then needs to be confirmed by a simple majority of both Houses of Congress. It's all spelled out in the XXV Amendment

[H2O Man]

8. "

[Gidney N Cloyd]

3. I don't think there is a succession to the VP office as long as there is a sitting president.

If both Cheney and Bush were successfully impeached, the Speaker of the house would become president but the VP office would stay vacant until someone is nominated by the new president and approved by the senate*.


Of course, that was all back when we had a constitution.


* NoPasaran is probably right about it being both houses.

[Pachamama]

5. Here's something interesting - All three of the first replies were discussed by my family today...

Whose right?

[NoPasaran]

9. With all due respect to my fellow posters, I am

The 25th Amendment was applied when Gerald Ford became VP following the resignation of Spiro Agnew, and when Ford named Nelson Rockefeller VP following the resignation of Richard Nixon.

The 22nd Amendment sets Presidential term limits.

No replacement for VP: that was true until the Twenty-Fifth Amendment was passed. So LBJ, Truman, Coolidge, Teddy Roosevelt and earlier VPs who attained office following the death of a President did not have VPs until they were elected to full terms in their own right.

[Independent_Liberal]

11. Glad you brought this up NoPasaran

I was just going to bring up the Nixon-Ford situation and a few of those others you mentioned. After the resignation of Agnew in 1973, we had a Democratic Speaker of the House (Carl Albert). They didn't just use the succession line, Nixon was forced to appoint Ford who was then House Minority Leader. After Nixon's resignation, Ford moved into the presidency and got to appoint his own VP who ended up being former New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller.

I'm wondering who the options might be if Cheney is impeached or forced to resign. I think the options will most likely be McCain or Thompson or Powell. It would be pretty ironic if one of them got in and then if Bush is impeached or resigns, they appointed George Pataki as their VP who was also Governor of New York. But I think most likely it would be Cheney resigns, Bush is forced to appoint McCain VP, Bush resigns, and the McCain becomes president and appoints Powell his VP.

[Bitwit1234]

7. Google for the Constitution. It says

that the vice president position does not have to be filled, althought the president can nominate ANYBODY he wants. BUT that person has to be approved by and up or down vote by congress. The cloture clause does not apply in this case. So if the Democratic congress doesn't want them tough stuff.

[Pachamama]

10. I just read the 25th Amendment and if I'm understanding it correctly, the President has 30 days to

nominate a person to fill the role and the simple majority of those present in the House and the Senate vote to confirm this person. If however they cannot confirm this person (or any other nominees), it seems that it used to be the VP role could remain empty and that it can now go in order of succession.

Here is Section 2 of the 25th Amendment:

Section 2

In case of the removal of the Vice President from office, or of his death or resignation, the President, within a period of thirty days thereafter, shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by both Houses of Congress by a majority vote of those present and voting.

[Whoa_Nelly]

12. So, IF this actually happened, who do you think would be McFuckwad's choice?

These are the first who come to mind:

'Sleeza
(crossing the gender AND race barrier all in one fell swoop just to garner more Repug donations and votes)

Karen Hughes (that would be HUGH!!!1!)
(Always brought back in as his "beck and Call Girl aka karen At The Ready!)


Some military yahoo
(I can never remeber all their names...
and who was that one man that testified in a hearing that was with a general...this was about 6 weeks ago??)


So....speculate, people!

And Happy Thanksgiving! :hi: