64 million (deaths) question: IF GOVT-FUNDED STUDIES IN '75 SHOWED POT'S ANTI-TUMOR EFFECTS, ...

[Fly by night]

.... than what in the plu-perfect hell would cause us to sit on this information for three decades? When a potential cancer fighter was at our finger-tips (so to speak) all this time?

WHAT HAVE WE KNOWN AND WHEN DID WE FIRST KNOW IT?

To begin with, the "64 million" number was pulled completely out of the air by me. (As an epidemiologist, I should know better.) But I am SURE we can calculate in short order the mortality from cancer cell types that cannabis had demonstrated its potential anti-tumor effects on over thirty years ago to come up with a pretty depressing number. So the focus of this thread is "ok, folks, just what do we do, and where do we go, with this information within the body politic?"

THAT is a question worthy of Bob Koehler, Bill Moyers, Dan Rather, Keith Olbermann et al -- for any modern political commentator of whatever persuasion to get behind. (After all, cancer is, with some large exceptions, an equal opportunity killer.) That's why I am starting this thread, to discuss among ourselves just how far we are willing to work to (finally) make medical marijuana a widely-discussed part of the national political dialogue.

I think this particular story -- pot's demonstrated anti-tumor effects -- is a very useful potential "hook" both to broaden the citizenry's exposure to the medical cannabis issue and to promote a wider and more open-minded political discussion about the need for drug policy reform around this issue. That's what I hope folks will chime in on re: this thread. (Cautionary tales are welcome too about the political risks of a more open discussion of the medical cannabis issue as part of the 2008 political contest.)

By way of background, you should read (or jump over here from) a recent thread, "Cannabis may halt breast cancer": http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3070811

What are your thoughts and ideas, folks?
----------

Cannabis prohibition has been in place in this country for less time than the life-span of one old man. If humankind has benefited from the medical uses of cannabis for over 5,000 years of recorded history, can we not (as a nation and a species) decide we made a mistake 70 years ago?

It is time to return the Goddess to Her (gentle, useful, respected) place among us.

Support medical marijuana programs in your state (or work to initiate a program in your state).

Make medical cannabis re-classification a national Democratic platform "plank" issue in 2008. (Speak up now, Dennis Kucinich, Bill Richardson, Mike Gravel et al. Speak now so that we can, once again, hold our peace.)

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he? And he/she can work to make it happen.

I appreciate DU for keeping a steady and open discussion (through regularly-posted 'Greatest" threads) about the need for serious drug reform policy shifts in this country, particularly around medical marijuana. If we never stop fighting, we cannot lose.

We are the ones we've been waiting for.

What say you?

[Fly by night]

1. Kick #1, before I get ready to drive south on the Natchez Trace for Thanksgiving.

Columbus, Mississippi, here I come!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Have you no heart?

Think of all the poor pharma companies who will lose millions on their cancer maintenance drugs if we actually find a cure!

[texastoast]

3. I say

Follow the money.

And fuck 'em. Learn what you need to know about all the ways nature heals on your own, because Western medicine will seldom tell you.

[Fly by night]

4. Why I care ..... (or rather, my perspective on things....)

www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Cover_Story/2007/04/26/Marijuana_Martyr/
www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-koehler/devil-weed_b_45019.html
www.saveberniesfarm.com


Why do you care.....?

[silverweb]

47. I just finished reading all three links.

I'm proud to "meet" you as a fellow DUer, and very angry and so terribly ashamed of what this administration and its WoD fascists have done to you.

You're fighting the good fight. I hope you're able to save your farm and fully get your life back.

As Koehler's article says at the end, "an ignorant and arrogant administration is in power right now and will impose the Dark Ages on all of us for as long as it can." We must all fight them into extinction.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

5. There are quite a few alternative cures out there.

Some are herbal and ancient, some were discovered in the early 20th century and suppressed (the ones concerning oxygen) and others are dietary (the Dr. Johanna Budwig diet).

You can find all this stuff on the web.

Then there was the Italian doctor who gave a terminally ill 11-year old boy in a coma from a brain tumor, baking soda in a 5% solution in an IV into his carotid artery, going straight to his brain, which cured the child. He woke up in a few hours and was totally cured.

For this the Italian government yanked his medical license and destroyed him.

[TheWraith]

13. Do you have a reputable link for any of that?

It's not listed on Google that I could find, and it sounds suspiciously like the sort of bull that gets repeated ad nauseam as "fact" on alternative medicine websites.

[silverweb]

50. Try these...

http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/2-1st-cured-patient.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Italy%2Bbrain+tumor%2Bsodium+bicarbonate+solution

[mitchtv]

6. What kind of message are we sending our kids? (comment on decriminalizing

Thanks John Edwards for the stupidist comment in the campaign. (He wasn't even asked , he voluteered)

[Hippo_Tron]

9. It's unfortunately the kind of irrational bullshit that Americans eat up

When I heard that comment I want to yell at him, "Prove It Asshole!". But it's a problem that began long before Edwards and he's playing in a political climate where the drug war is the status quo and any questioning of it is on the fringe.

At least the Democrats will stop the DEA crack down on medical marijuana. It's a baby step but at least it's a step.

[Fly by night]

10. That we're not paying attention, John. That's the message they're receiving.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. OMG WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDRENS OMG!!!111!!!

Yeah, another all-time classic from "Authoritarianism's Greatest Hits"

[duhneece]

7. At 56 yrs old and with my son in prison for meth

I believe marijuana should be legalized period. Of course, I am 100% for the use of medical marijuana and went to Santa Fe when the Dept of Health had a hearing on the subject. I am trying to get funding for our little non-profit to bring this kind of info into our community, via county fairs, health fairs, community events.

[Fly by night]

8. Taking the long, slow trail from middle TN to northeastern MS. Get to drive the Natchez Trace ...

... almost all the way. So I hope others will help keep this thread K&Red and will share their own thoughts about where we are on "getting real" with this issue (one among many, I know.) I'll listen to ATC and enjoy the late November rain.

And think about what it is like now, what can happen and what it can be.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. We need fundamental reform of our entire system.

The bullshit layered on top of bullshit that has accumulated over the last 30 years or so of collective insanity all needs to get power-washed out of the our barn and we need to start over.

[Boxerfan]

12. Personal experience...3 tumors,all benign!!!

I've had what the Doctor was sure was a Malignant melanoma. He was a specialist in a SF medical school. He was amazed the biopsy came back begative but I was not arguing.

6 years later I had a parotid gland tumor removed. Again, benign.

2 years after that a basal cell carcinoma-Benign!.

I have been self medicating for years & thanks to Oregon state law I am legal in thier eyes.I heard about this study years ago from Great Britian??. It was only 3-4 years ago & they pretty much nailed the tumor protection cannabis provides. It was not news to me.....I believe while it doesn't PREVENT tumors it renders those that do occur less harmfull...

Another note about med MJ. It doesn't really eliminate pain,it allows your mind to forget about it. I can work MUCH more effectively in a memory heavy job with med MJ vs any prescribed medication...
Happy T-day!!

[truedelphi]

32. A wonderful CA man, Steve Kubby, was treating his tumors

By smoking weed.

He also decided to run for governor during the 1990's.

Got busted for the pot. (Big time surveillance was being done on him after he became political.)

And even though the prosecution said that they believed the testimony regarding how marijuana shrunk his tumors, they did not care.

The law is the law.

[RainDog]

14. And not just tumors

edited because, yes, spell check is my friend...

some people who have migraines go through a process in which the headache pain is so bad it makes them vomit. Not just nauseous. If those people had a puff or two they would bypass that entire experience and, in fact, be more productive because they wouldn't have a migraine "hangover."

and, tho of course I never inhaled or even ever tried pot, rumor has it that marijuana may act as an aphrodisiac because sensory experiences can be enhanced, not to mention just a shift from work stress.

anyway, if I had ever tried it, that's what I would say about my experience... I mean the migraine part. O8)

In any case, the whole thing with mj is ridiculous.

Dodd got a bump there for a while when he talked about decriminalization. Richardson's state favors medical mj. Like I said on another post, if candidates talked about doing this because of all the medical benefits, and in the face of so much disinformation about negatives, but told Americans to get out and REGISTER TO VOTE, we could make this happen. Justice Stevens also thinks mj laws are like the prohibition era. Some candidate needs to be courageous enough to do a "Have you no shame?" moment to deny the health care benefits to people with cancer and other, non-fatal health problems.

If the dems wait until Ron Paul steps up to do this... well, I guess that's why they'll win, in part, because people despise Bush so much. That is, if Paul doesn't pull votes from the dems on an issue like this.

[RainDog]

15. somebody, anybody, don't make the thread killa, please!

[dysfunctional press]

17. i have the kind of migraines that make me vomit...they REALLY suck...

but pot doesn't help- sleep(if possible) and hydrocodone generally do it for me.

i smoke LOTS of pot- about an ounce/week.

[RainDog]

20. um, maybe that's why?

it doesn't sound like a medicinal sort of use, maybe? I don't know. I do know of some people who have used it with real success for migraines tho.

[dysfunctional press]

22. no, actually it isn't from that...

it is medicinal use, although i'm not in a medical mj state. i have a severe autoimmune arthritic condition that affects mostly the spine- ankylosing spondylitis. it went un/mis-diagnosed until i was in my mid-30's.

i will admit that my pot use started in my teens as 'recreational', but as the condition and it's associated pain began to manifest itself (still undiagnosed) i found that the pot made it a lot easier to bear.

when i finally limped into a reputable dr.'s office when i was 35, he was able to diagnose me correctly, and started me on oxycontin for the chronic and almost unbearable pain- which helped IMMENSLY....i was upfront with him about the mj, and he was very supportive about it, and saw no problems that i should be concerned about.

the migraines are much more related to the AS, and my disrupted(due to pain) sleep patterns. unfortunately, i have another condition- raynaud's syndrome, that prevents me from taking medications designed for migraines- it's contraindicated in raynaud's cases, which has to do with spasms in the small blood vessels in the wrists and ankles...

[RainDog]

36. I'm so sorry for your situation

And I apologize for my flip remark. It sounds like the AS and Raynaud's stem from the same "arthritic" problems - obviously I'm not doctor. What is the state of your spine? If you have "bamboo spine," are there ways to help alleviate that condition.

I've been very fortunate, as far as my physical health. I do have some severe migraines, but that's nothing compared to what others have to deal with. I also make a good rain predictor, but I think that's from sinus headaches.

As far as medication, I never took anything for my migraines until one time I had one that was so severe I had to go the emergency room of the hospital and they gave me something to knock me out. But after I was divorced, I went for several years without insurance, so there was no way I was gonna go the hospital for anything if I could avoid it. That's when a kindly person in my town explained the medicinal benefits of a little bitty bit of herbal migraine treatment. Why pay for expensive medicines when there's some available for free that works as well if not better - and actually better, because the effect is so much faster and doesn't knock you out. Prior to that, I hadn't partaken of any cannabis product for about 15 years.

I honestly do not see why I should have to worry about being a "criminal" in a situation like that.

And now, have to go baste the poor fowl that was sacrificed for my animal proclivities today...

[dysfunctional press]

49. i think that the raynaud's was exacerbated by my construction job-

i was a (union) laborer for a concrete construction company that specialized in building/remodeling sewage & water treatment plants, and i did a LOT of pneumatic-hammering work, and apparently it's one of the worst things for the condition.

also- the construction job was another reason my AS went undiagnosed for so long, as doctors convinced me that it was a mild arthritis, aggravated by my line of work.

so i left the trades and the union, (and the union benefits/disability) and got a desk job as an international corporate travel agent- at the rotary international world headquarters in evanston IL . unfortunately, when you have AS, a desk job is even worse than a construction job, as you sit on your ass all day, allowing your spine time to do some fusing...so i got worse faster...yadda yadda yadda...i was in a car accident, went to a chiropractor, and she finally gave me a correct diagnosis.

the REALLY FRUSTRATING thing is this- had my condition been correctly diagnosed while i was still in the union, i would have had FANTASTIC disability benefits, compared to my social security- which i obviously had to take early, making my monthly check already much smaller than could have expected had i retired at 66 rather than 38 - on top of that, one company that i had worked for had taken my fica deductions from my check, but never actually paid them into social security, and it accounted for about 12% of my total fica money, so my monthly amount is just that much smaller still. and since the company went bankrupt some 20+ years ago, and i don't have my check stubs from way back then- i'm s.o.l., with no recourse, per the SS administration.

as to the state of my spine- my lumbar and cervical are totally fused, the AS was fairly dormant for awhile, but recently has flared back up and is going at my thoracic- although it's not at the level it was at when my lumbar/cervical were affected. i take methadone for chronic pain- i used to be on oxycontin, but when i lost my medical insurance, my dr. switched me to methadone to save A LOT of money...i've been taking it for 8+ years. i also do stretching/yoga, and try to adhere to a starch-free diet, especially when i'm flaring...and there's always the weed.

i would really like to live long enough to see the u.s. develop a sensible policy in regard to both marijuana AND hemp. it's criminal how much research time and money has been lost studying it over the past decades due to our IGNORANT and CORRUPT drug laws.

[tridim]

28. I knew a guy who smoked pot or his migraines..

He told his doctor that pot was the only thing that worked. The Doc disagreed, said he should stop smoking and prescribed him a strong opiate instead. :eyes:

Some doctors are nothing more than drug dealers that get you hooked on the hard stuff so you'll come back for more.

[elehhhhna]

30. anecdotal but...a few years ago

my super-anti-drug neighbor lady "got" cervical cancer which killed her in a matter of about 18 months.

I scored some tiny bit of really good weed when I heard about it and put it aside ...for her. (I knew if she wanted some she'd ask me: she was very self righteous and thought I was the "wild one" and I don't even drink!)

When the day came I answered. Small one hitter, small lighter, pre-cleaned smoke (a pinch, really). Showed her what to do and sent her home.

30 minutes later she was giggling and felt good enough to take a bath, which was a big deal, as she was really tortured by that illness in her final months.

no regrets.

[tridim]

33. I tried the same thing when my friend got brain cancer.

She declined because she thought pot was "bad for her". She preferred the morphine pump until the day she died. Not saying she shouldn't have been on the morphine, but I'm sure the pot would have helped too. It's sad that even when on the brink of death people still believe the anti-pot propaganda.

[elehhhhna]

45. She was probably just very afraid. Shame. Weird part, here --

this woman was not my friend. She was a venal, snobbish, Republican alcoholic who hated me on sight.

We never saw eye - to- eye but this hippiewannabe changed her thinking about some things and she, mine, and both our spirits became more generous.

[killbotfactory]

42. my headaches have effectively been stopped

since I started smoking pot. I used to get headaches with great frequency, often coupled with nausea. Whatever was causing them, poor diet, alcohol, poor sleep, or a combination of a few factors, marijuana has pretty much cured me. It has also helped tremendously with social anxiety, something which I had previously taken paxil for, and which was proscribed to me with all the care of a drug pusher selling crack. Meaning no analysis of my condition and no warning of the numerous horrible side effects I would experience. It has allowed me to put my life back together after poverty and alcohol abused nearly destroyed it. And for this I risk going to jail and having my money and belonging stolen by the state, and being branded with a criminal record. Wonderful.

[bvar22]

16. I say...

MANDATORY daily cannabis consumption for ALL Americans as preventative Universal HealthCare! :hippie:

[opihimoimoi]

18. I Second the Suggestion.....K&R

[Betsy Ross]

34. I'll smoke to that! n/t

[Ignis]

44. In the words of Bill Hicks:

"Shut up and smoke that: It's the LAW!"

:hi:

[Fly by night]

19. Thanks for keeping the thread kicked while I drove home to "Possum Town", Mississippi

Mt first Thanksgiving with family in three years.

The last two, I spent locked up in a federal Bureau of Prisons halfway house for providing cannabis to four terminal patients.

It's good to be free again. Free enough to work to prevent others from having the same experience.

[RainDog]

21. a happy thanksgiving

I'm sure this must be the best one in a long time. how did you get arrested?

this really is a disgusting situation for terminal patients to have to fear prison, too, much less someone who tries to help them.

they knew, surely, the sentence was ridiculous - otherwise why were you in a half-way house. I'm glad to hear that you're out now.

[Fly by night]

24. Read the links in post # 4 above. They will explain all.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[eShirl]

23. Medical Freedom of Choice should be right up there with Freedom of Religion

Am I right in remembering something about it almost made it into the Bill of Rights?

[windoe]

25. Hear hear!

Freedom to live and die as we please as long as it does not infringe on another.

[windoe]

26. In this work based society

that has also become militarized, I believe drugs like caffeine, nicotine, alcohol are much more conducive than cannabis, since the stimulants provide nervous agitation for work hours, and drinking promotes aggressive behavior (in many people) and the needed anesthesia. Cannabis for most people promotes a peaceful non aggressive mood, stimulates creative thought and the questioning of meaningless boring work--and you know we can't have that around here.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

27. Thanks for this information

Quite amazing.

[OzarkDem]

29. Keep doing the research

Breast cancer has been cured in test tubes and mice many times. Translating that effectiveness to human beings is another story.

It would be great if the ingredient worked to stop the spread of cancer, but we won't know until its been tested in human clinical trials.

Those supporting medical marijuana need to get the researchers to do the work to bring its use into evidence based medicine if they want to see it legalized.

[Fly by night]

46. Unfortunately, cannabis research is severely restricted in the US.

Because we consider cannabis to be as hazardous as heroin and more hazardous than cocaine and methamphetamine, medical scientists do not have the opportunity to study cannabis the way they can so many other substances. And if they go through the multi-year process of obtaining permission, they can only use poorly-produced, poorly-processed and very weak pot grown at the U. of Mississippi in their research. This pot is so poor that the government provides 300 joints/month for the handful of federally "approved" patients to use -- that's 10 joints per day.

With the people I helped, most were able to get by on one or two joints per day, even in their end-stage conditions.

That is why we need to re-classify cannabis from Schedule 1 to any other classification (some have argued that cannabis would fit fine in Schedules 2 through 4 -- the higher the classification, the more flexibility would exist for medical use and research.)

Two different DEA judges have recommended this re-classification in the past 20 years. To date, no DEA administrator has accepted their recommendations. We need to appoint a DEA head who can finally apply common sense and compassion to cannabis in this country.

[Bunkie0913]

31. What a story

This is quite a country of freedoms we live in. I read the links in post #4 and have the greatest appreciation for your efforts to help others deal with devastating diseases. I hope your personal struggles with the confiscation of your possessions and your own chronic illness take flight on the wings of truth and justice.

[krj44]

35. as far as the anti- tumor effect

that i cannot attest to but what i can tell you is this and supported verbally by my doc,i was injured in nam have gone through about 12 surgeries over the years,the back being the most painful,i do not like pain killers and the other array of pills afforded me,however bust a jay and couple of miller lites and the pain is gone,whats amazing is its not addictive.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Frequent sex and/or masturbation by men in their teens & 20s prevents prostate cancer, too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

Just another in a long line of facts that "they" (The Church/Government, as if there's really a difference) would prefer you not know.

[RainDog]

40. And electrolysis can get rid of that palm hair...

:rofl:

Humans are strange, aren't they? you have to wonder who came up with some of these lies...

[killbotfactory]

41. marijuana can help in both cases

it really is a wonder drug!

[Warren DeMontague]

43. You're preaching to the choir. Although I haven't smoked it in years, I fully support legalizing it.

The drug war is a ridiculous sham.

[chelaque liberal]

39. Found on-line: 19 76 government research report

http://www.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/14.pdf

249 pages

[Fly by night]

48. One Thanksgiving night, bursting at the seams, self-kick.

Thanks to all for the posts on this thread.

We will return the Goddess to your honored place among us, soon I hope.

[RainDog]

51. I was utterly shocked

when I read about the blocked studies from the 1970s.

Why can't the American Cancer Society lobby for more research and allow humans who want to be part of tests do so?

And as far as politics go - since the majority of Americans seem to support medicinal marijuana - maybe Congress could up that 11% approval rating by having some legislation that actually helped all Americans if they need it.