Cyberbullying.... Mom: Web hoax led girl to kill herself

[devilgrrl]

This is quite upsetting... :-(

DARDENNE PRAIRIE, Mo. - Megan Meier thought she had made a new friend in cyberspace when a cute teenage boy named Josh contacted her on MySpace and began exchanging messages with her.
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Megan, a 13-year-old who suffered from depression and attention deficit disorder, corresponded with Josh for more than a month before he abruptly ended their friendship, telling her he had heard she was cruel.

The next day Megan committed suicide. Her family learned later that Josh never actually existed; he was created by members of a neighborhood family that included a former friend of Megan's.

Now Megan's parents hope the people who made the fraudulent profile on the social networking Web site will be prosecuted, and they are seeking legal changes to safeguard children on the Internet.

more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071117/ap_on_re_us/internet_suicide_7

more: http://www.mydeathspace.com/article/2007/11/15/Megan_Meier_(13)_hung_herself_in_her_closet_after_becoming_the_victim_of_cyber_bullying

[Az]

1. I am gonna go out on a limb here and suggest she had other problems

And a good chance they involved (or rather didn't involve) the parents.

[sandnsea]

2. "suffered from depression"

Does that qualify as "other problems"? And are you blaming her parents for an organic medical condition?

Are people legally liable when they intentionally badger someone, knowing that the person is mentally ill or otherwise handicapped? I don't know, but I hope the assholes are haunted for the rest of their lives. What an incredibly shitty thing to do.

[Az]

7. After reading the full article I am switching my suspicions

I agree that what the other "adults" were doing was stupid and mean. But a suicide as a result of their actions is definitely an unusual outcome to say the least. Until you notice the fact that Megan was on meds for her depression. One of the effects of antidepression meds is to lower inhibitions such that if a notion of suicide enters the mind it is more likely to be acted upon on a whim. I would be interested in knowing just which antidepression meds she was on.

[Kingshakabobo]

49. I's less of an "unusual outcome" if, at one time, the offending adults acted as a guardian .....

.....of the girl (during a family vacation ) and KNEW she was taking medication for depression - the offending parent knew the girl had problems.

If I were the girl's parents I would test that theory in a civil case.

[TorchTheWitch]

3. Read the whole story...

http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2007/11/11/news/sj2tn20071110-1111stc_pokin_1.ii1.txt

Yep, Megan had depression problems, and the adult who perpetuated the hoax knew that.

[devilgrrl]

4. She had problems with getting harrassed by adults

eom

[Az]

8. She had a problem with the adults and meds (I suspect)

See my post above. I read the full article and I agree that the adults behaved horribly. But to expect suicide out of a result of their actions is unreasonable. I suspect the meds had a larger part to play in her suicide. Instead of going after the other adults her parents should be taking a look at Pfizer or whatever pharma was manufacturing her antidepressants.

[TorchTheWitch]

17. Why is intent to commit suicide necessary to be charged?

The woman knew about Megan's depression issues. There is such a thing called negligence and reckless disregard. There was most certainly intent to harm.

If you drive recklessly and have an accident that kills a passenger in your car you can be charged for manslaughter. There doesn't need to be intent or even intent to just harm.

[Az]

19. After reading what transpired I think there is a lot of misinformation in it

I am digging through some more resources but honestly the net is the worst place to try a case.

[Dorian Gray]

28. I agree...

I don't think that anybody could have suspected that she'd commit suicide. But what kind of parents would be involved in a stunt like that? It's idiotic. They should be shamed in their community. And shunned. Idiots.

[Guaranteed]

6. Definitely have a good look at the article

and what these people were doing to this kid.

A couple of parts should get your blood up.

[Midlodemocrat]

33. .

:applause:

I'm having a really hard time with the people defending this monster. What she did to that child is inhumane.

[devilgrrl]

35. Oh, I know. Doesn't it make you sick?

:puke:

[Midlodemocrat]

36. I don't understand it at all.

I have two teenagers and a 'tween'. Sure they got into 'internet' arguments with friends. They rant about it, two hours later everything is back to normal and everyone is friends again.

I cannot for the life of me understand a grown woman who would create an internet account solely to torment someone else's child.

I think she should be prosecuted and put in jail.

[devilgrrl]

37. How about all the jerks here blaming the girl for her own suicide????

:wtf: is that?

But but but her parents shouldn't have let her have a MySpace account.

:eyes:

Un-fucking-real!

[Progressive Friend]

5. The "parent" who set up the fake account should definitely be punished

What a scummy society the US has become.

[Az]

9. What charge?

Yes they were scummy. But what charge would you hit them with?

As to our society... don't be so hasty. There is far more good in our society than rot. The real problem is ignorance and disconnection. Plenty of good and compassionate people out there. You just have to look around a bit.

[Progressive Friend]

12. At the very least, child abuse and harassment

Considering that it is illegal for adults to have sexual relations with 13 year old children, it should also definitely be illegal for adults to encourage 13 year old children to kill themselves.

[TorchTheWitch]

13. I would certainly think so

Especially to intentionally inflict torment on a child known to have emotional problems.

[Az]

16. That would be a hard charge to make stick

Particularly considering there is no evidence of a post telling Megan to kill herself. The only suggestion of that is from Megan's father that claimed to have read a post that now cannot be retrieved. That counts as hearsay evidence and is not valid in a court of law.

I understand the emotional reaction here. But I also fear that the story is getting tainted and out of control. This is the problem with trying a case in the court of public opinion. It ebbs and flows with the emotional outrage of the public. Getting to the truth is pushed to the side quite quickly. We simply don't know enough about the case. The intent of the adult that started this was not to harass. And she claims that the account was hacked at some point. I have personally witnessed this on Myspace where someone I know has come into a forum and started acting bizarre. Only to later find out that their account had been hacked. This is a fairly common prank on Myspace and the point of it is to totally ruin someone's reputation. Whether this is what happened I cannot say. But then neither can anyone else not directly connected to investigating this case.

[countryjake]

22. Well, there seems to be some hard charging...with sticks, pitchforks...

torches...the mob is growing by the minute and this "guilty" family will be needing real anonymity, quick, now that the media is running with it.

According to the "reports", the 18 yr old girl who worked for the "perpetrator" typed the last message that was retrieved from the hard drive by the FBI, tho she had been given the password, no hacking. Your guess about there being more than meets the eye sounds about right, to me.

[alarimer]

25. Good. They need to be treated they way they treated her

At the very least.

[countryjake]

29. So what the bullies did to that child wasn't heinous?

I don't see the logic in such a response. If you think mistreatment is wrong, why advocate mistreatment?

[brentspeak]

23. If not charged, at least identified

The article does not name the adults who were involved with this. Making public their names would be just desserts.

[countryjake]

26. Oh they're public...everything, right down to their place of business...

has already been posted on blogs all over the net, phone number, address, everything needed to turn this into an even more horrific tragedy than it already is. And the media is eating it up...CNN's 360 knocking on the door, showing their home very clearly for every irrational thug in that area to think up new and even worse cruelties. I haven't a doubt that some avenging angel will soon be on the news for meting out the rightful "punishment". Where do these "just desserts" end?

[Guaranteed]

54. If the intent can be established, they can be convicted of murder.

The cause of someone's death can be far removed from the perpetrator but still lead to conviction where the perpetrator truly intended that the person die.

[countryjake]

24. So you think bullying is something new?

Back in the days before it was groovy to be PC, making fun, harassing, downright condemning was standard fare for all sorts of people, kids, anyone who didn't fit the "norm" of what society preferred.

The saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me!" wasn't invented for nothing. And people putting people down has been around forever.

I really feel a sense that some are longing for the days of public shackling and stocks, reading the internet response to this story, (not saying your response is bad), and it does seem that, with the FBI involved last year when it happened, if a crime was committed, those parents would have been punished already.

[BuelahWitch]

34. It's true bullying is not something new

But the parents of bullies getting involved is what is particularly heinous. These jackasses acted like middle school children

[countryjake]

59. When the dead girl & her former friend set up that original fraudulent account...

it was time for both set of parents to get involved...the route which each family took to address the problem of their girls hanging out at MySpace is where they became less-than-responsible-adults.

[Occulus]

40. You really think words can't or don't hurt?

You're that naive?

That little singsong phrase you quoted is the worst possible advice a child can get when they're being teased or bullied. It only encourages the people doing the bullying. I know, because I tried it, over and over, because that's all anyone would teach me regarding how to respond to being bullied.

I ended up very close to suicidal. When my mom gave me a wet ditch to sleep in (and I mean that as literally as possible), I almost tried it. I was this close --> ||

Dismissing it "nothing new" is part of the overall problem. It's sad that you can't see that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

44. I'm so sorry that happened to you

And that the people who were supposed to protect you were so clueless.

I can relate. I was mercilessly teased in elementary and jr. high. Not only did no adult step up to protect me, some of them actually joined in on it!

Just because something happens all the time is no reason to ignore or minimize it.

[countryjake]

58. What, exactly, do you think that "overall problem" might be?

I think you missed the point of my reply to Progressive Friend. His remark that US society has become scummy was what I addressed. Do you agree with him that this is some new phenomenon of nastiness that is sweeping our nation or do you think that it's been around since time immemorial?

I'm sorry that you were never offered adequate therapy or counseling to deal with your situation. Many children of the past dealt with verbal harassment, mental cruelty, severe neglect, and criminal physical attacks, all by themselves with no support from any sympathetic agency; it has been and continues to be a problem, but at least, there are now a few legitimate resources that children can use as their advantage to address and resolve such issues.

It's sad to me that you think your mother was exceptional in her disregard of your feelings. Many, many folks out there can relate similar horror stories and far from dismissing such behavior, they recognize such trends and tendencies and actively fight for the inherent rights of minors as individual citizens in this nation, apart from their parents.

[TorchTheWitch]

10. Photo of Megan - she was lovely

From this site - http://www.dreamindemon.com/2007/11/14/myspace-hoax-leads-to-megan-meier-suicide/

[bananas]

11. "What was said to Megan Meier May come back to haunt you, Lori Drew."

http://bluemerle.blogspot.com/2007/11/what-you-said-to-megan-meier.html

Tuesday, November 13, 2007
What was said to Megan Meier
May come back to haunt you, Lori Drew.

"Everybody in O'Fallon knows how you are. You are a bad person and everybody hates you. Have a shitty rest of your life. The world would be a better place without you"

I fretted about whether to name you. I'm tired of waiting for someone else to out you.
I hear God forgives those who repent. Maybe some of your neighbors will, too. But stay as you are, and I think those words from your "Josh Evans" sockpuppet may stay with you longer than you had thought possible.

I don't know what the future holds, but I hope you can find some way to atone for the pain you brought to the lives of so many.

Labels: dardennes prairie, Josh Evans, Lori j. Drew, Megan Meier

// posted by SarahW @ 11:41 PM

<snip many comments>

[Az]

14. Longer article on the story here

http://stcharlesjournal.stltoday.com/articles/2007/11/10/news/sj2tn20071110-1111stc_pokin_1.ii1.txt

The adult in question claims in the police statement that the account was hacked at some point and taken over and that it caused a lot of confusion. I can attest to the fact that there was a rash of hacking going on recently when an exploit for stealing Myspace passwords was going on. Whether that is what really happened is another question.

[bananas]

15. poynter.org: Paper blasted for not naming adults linked to girl's suicide

edit to add: embedded links in the original.

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=133136

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2007
Paper blasted for not naming adults linked to girl's suicide

The Lee-owned St. Charles Journal recently wrote about a teenage girl who killed herself after two adults' postings on MySpace. The paper declined to name the pair, but blogs outed them. The Lee paper was criticized for its editorial decision, with one newspaper employee writing on Jezebel.com: "Every day newspaper journalism as we know it gets one step closer to death, as readers turn to blogs and TV and other media for information. This wimp of an editor, who doesn't have the guts to name the wrongdoers involved, has just hastened our eventual demise by at least another week or two."

[Az]

18. Yeah, who needs Judges and Juries any more

The public out to be a good enough place to decide what happened and deal with the perpetrators of the crime. We should get a group together and head on over there and provide some real justice. We can even give this group a name.... um... I like David Lynch a lot... lets call the group a Lynch Mob. Yeah. :sarcasm:

Sorry but we are all operating on third hand information on this case. We don't know what went down and already people are calling for jail time for these people? This is why our system is dying. Because we have turned into emotional zombies. Instead of lurching into the streets for brains we respond to whatever emotional tidbit is dangled before us and react to it.

I believe in innocent until proven guilty. And I don't think a newspaper or a blog is the place to put a person on trial.

[bananas]

20. They're not being put on trial.

They're being outed.
Big difference.

http://hitsusa.com/blog/317/megan-meier-suicide/

<snip>

46. M.C. Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

I just stumbled across this site. I am so upset by this story and have been for several days after hearing about it. It’s nice to see others are as bothered by this as me.

Just an FYI…

This is the response I received from the Sherriff when asked why charges weren’t filed. They seem to be more curious as to what the Meirer’s motive is bringing this up a year later..How sick is that? Just because this family is finally letting the public know of their tremendous heartbreak and lack of justice, they’re looked at as the bad guy because they are stirring it up again in the sherrif’s eyes.

Their Response….

“The FBI and local law enforcement investigated this event last year and determined there are no CRIMINAL violations to charge. We can only enforce the laws enacted by others. We cannot STRETCH the law to fit the desires of society to right a terrible wrong. One might question why this outrage was dormant for more than a year. The only entity to benefit now from reliving the events is the media .”

I then asked….

From what I understand, the family was told to stay quiet while the
investigation was going on. Therefore they are now free to speak
about the events. Is this not the case?

Their response…

Once again, that was last year.


<snip>

48. Blaine Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 5:09 pm

My name is Blaine Buckles and i have known the Meiers my entire life. I live right next to the Drew’s and they are the ones who caused all of this for Megan. They are some of the most sick and vile people i know. What they did will never be forgiven. It is all true, and if you dont believe me check the police report that Lori Drew herself confessed to everything. P.S. Lloyd you are a moron, they have every right to be angry, you sound like you dont know anything about law. I believe in our United States consistution there is a little something about “freedom of speech” and peoples opinions matter and they have every right to speak what they think. So why dont you just shut your damn holier-than-thou mouth.

<snip>

[Az]

51. And how is outing not a trial by media/public

Look, investigate all you want. You are only going to at best get second hand information. And by outing these people you have a very real effect on their lives. You better hope you are right. I prefer to trust in a trial system that directly investigates issues and puts the evidence before a jury and judge. This is a mob. It is appealing to the emotional revulsion of the situation and fanning the flames. Its ugly.

[tammywammy]

38. The woman that did it, Lori

confessed to it!

[Az]

53. To what?

To creating an account and monitoring Megan? Yeah she confessed to that. But I don't see any confession that she told her to kill herself. We have a load of circumstantial evidence here being pumped up by a hysterical blogosphere.

The claims of Megan before she hung herself were that it was a group of people harassing her. Not just the mother.

We don't have the whole story. I reserve judgment until the all the information is available. And its not likely to become available. So yeah, this is an ugly situation. But do we destroy someone's life just because we think they are responsible? Is that who we are?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

41. So she should have shut down the account and owned up to being the creator of it

BEFORE it led to the tragedy. Had she done that, come clean to Megan and her parents about who "Josh" was, the whole thing could have been prevented. She had plenty of time to do that.

[tammywammy]

43. And this happened over a year ago

The recent hackings have nothing to do with what was going on a year ago.

If it was being hacked, she should have shut it down immediately and told those parents what she was doing.

[countryjake]

21. Anderson Cooper covered this on CNN this week...

MySpace teen suicide - Anderson Cooper 360 Report
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/16/bts.myspace.teen.suicide.cnn

During Gary Tuchman's interview with Megan's parents, they were asked if there was any further contact with the Drews, and Ron Meier said they'd basically told them to "Give it a rest!"; can't much blame these grieving parents for being angry now, a full year later, since they are the ones with charges against them.

Deadly Cyberbullying
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/17/tuchman.mo.myspace.suicide.cnn


Nasty bullying is certainly nothing new to this world, between kids and teens or even adults. The Internet simply makes it easier.

[Dorian Gray]

27. I don't think that the kids

who created the other account (or the mother who supervised it? WTF?) should go to jail, but I hope that they now realize that their actions were malicious and awful. How sad for the family who lost their very troubled child.

[countryjake]

30. There are horrific threats against that kid & her family...

posted on some of the local blogs that have run with this story. This is becoming sad for all involved now, and since CNN's piece ran last night, I think they may have to head for the hills or get some sort of legal protection.

After skimming thru some of the comments at those blogs this morning, there are now death threats, promises of arson, and everything imaginable directed at the dead girl's former friend and her parents. It is officially "out of hand".

[Dorian Gray]

32. Yes, that is out of hand...

definitely. And two wrongs do not make a right. It's one thing for the neighbors to turn their back on them. But to threaten or actually harm them? Just as (if not more so) awful as the original act.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. Nobody should threaten them but if they had any decency they'd move

Their presence on that street is a constant and cruel reminder to Megan's parents.

[countryjake]

61. I doubt they'll have much choice in the matter soon...

judging by some of the things that have been posted on the internet, especially the stuff directed at the girl who started the whole thing, Megan's former friend. One of the local blogs that I looked at yesterday morning, full of these girls' peers, it seemed, has now been removed from the web...it was full of seething rage and from what I gathered, that kid was never accepted by anyone in those two towns, even before Megan made friends with her, so I doubt the family would want to stay in the neighborhood. Unless they don't care about their daughter's safety. The threats were very real and too close to home.

[MadHound]

31. A question for her parents

Why in the hell did you let your child peruse places like MySpace? My God, it is nothing more than a magnet for such shit as happened here.

Yes, I agree that the people who perpetrated this hoax are cruel, heartless assholes. But the parents need to accept some responsibility for letting their daughter get involved in such a place. It's a big bad world out their on the internet, and not one that a child should face alone and unsupervised.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

39. That's true in general, but doesn't quite cut it in this case

The adults (and the child they enlisted to help them) who participated in this prank knew Megan personally. They weren't random strangers in the ether. That they chose the MySpace forum to bully this particular girl is not the point. If the 'internets' didn't exist they could have easily used the mail or telephone, or some other method. This type of sick malicious gaslighting existed long before computers. (Of course, had they used the US mail to do it, then Megan's parents might have some better legal recourse to go after them.)

[TorchTheWitch]

47. good point

Without the internet, they could have tormented Megan some other way. Bullying isn't new... only cyber bullying is. If those people used any other method other than online (phone, mail, in person, whatever) it would be a whole different thing and would never be chalked up to "oh well, shit happens". These people were on a mission, and just chose the internet as their preferred method (and undoubtedly chose that method because it's the easiest to not get caught or punished if caught).

[TorchTheWitch]

46. But how do you stop them?

If a kid wants to be on MySpace, one way or another they will. If their parents won't allow it, then they'll do it at a friend's house who has no supervision at all online. I think it was better that Megan's mother allowed her to be on MySpace with only the mother having the password and approving or dispapproving of who Megan spoke with and monitoring her when she was on there. Megan was apparently satisfied with this arrangement which kept her from free unlimited unsupervised access which she undoubtedly would have gotten on a friend's computer. Heck, these days you can go online right on your cellphone. Megan could easily have gotten access behind her parents' back any number of ways.

It is far too easy for kids to do what they like online regardless of what stringent rules their parents set down about it. I think it's better to compromise with a kid than to say no entirely. Better to give them the access they want and supervise that access than for the kid to get unlimited unsupervised access some other way, which they WILL.

[Corgigal]

45. One of the saddest local stories

I've read in awhile. We constantly hear about bulling from groups/kids to other kids. However just the thought that an adult would ask a co-worker to set up a web page to trap a depressed, over weight 13 year old just turns my stomach.

I guess my DU liberal creed isn't as good as others because if I lived in this neighborhood I would have to fight back daily thought of kicking that grown adult womans ass. I have two young daughters and I couldn't imagine doing something so nasty.

[depakid]

48. I have feeling there's more to this than meets the eye

Since it happened over a year ago, why isn't there any mention of a civil suit?

Seems to me the adults involved could and should have been sued- and bankrupted. Might even be able to make a claim on the homeowner's policy.

[tammywammy]

52. The Miers aren't intending to sue

"The Meiers do not plan to file a civil lawsuit. Here's what they want: They want the law changed, state or federal, so that what happened to Megan - at the hands of an adult - is a crime."

http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2007/11/11/news/sj2tn20071110-1111stc_pokin_1.ii1.txt

[Az]

55. Thats what I am getting off of this

There is a lot of issues here that are not clear. And parts of the story do not scan properly.

[Guaranteed]

50. BTW- if it WAS the intent of these people that the girl kill herself, that IS, legally, murder.

Where intent is established the required cause-in-fact is usually stretched to its absolute limits.

[dsc]

56. That is nothing short of despicable

That poor little girl. I can't imagine a level of hate that would justify doing that to a 13 year old.

[fortyfeetunder]

57. A bunch of sick jerks

Supposedly adults setting up a fake account to lure a child...guess we can't call them MATURE, can we? I call it emotional abuse.

RIP Megan...

[bitchkitty]

60. Appalling on so many levels...

I don't have children, but if I did, they would not have privacy from me, as far as their online activities went. The computer would be in the middle of the living room and I would be so nosy that their friends would pity them.

That said, what really makes me sick are the adult women who participated in this sick prank against a child. OVER A MONTH? What kind of person is that obsessed, much less a whole family. Some example they set for their own children. Practically all 13-year olds are a little mental. The tiniest little thing will weigh on their minds for days. That she was depressed (did these women know she was depressed?) made things that much worse I'm sure.

Harassing a child can't be legal, and these were adult women harassing a child.

I cannot imagine how her parents are coping. Obviously they're not, very well.