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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:48 PM
Original message
I'm speechless - this picture speaks volumes
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 03:47 PM by shance


I guess the rich, privileged, draft dodging Yale and Harvard boys have had enough of all the "free speech garbage" , I guess because people are beginning to wake up to who the real enemies are.

Look at the men being arrested - men who fought and sacrificed in a war, unlike the Yale/Harvard boys who did everything they could to avoid active duty. Ironically now the ones who were used by the good ole rich boys are now the ones being arrested for protesting what we all should be protesting.

Oh and Happy Veteran's Day.....


The article:


More than a dozen members of an antiwar veterans group were arrested yesterday as they protested the exclusion of their message from Bostons Veterans Day parade.Members of Veterans for Peace lined up in front of a podium at City Hall Plaza holding antiwar placards, as color guards from Massachusetts military units and JROTC bands from across the state filed into Government Center for a ceremony, sponsored by the American Legion, to honor veterans after the parade. Some protesters wore gags, which they later said symbolized the fact that, while they were permitted to march in the parade, they were prevented from carrying signs opposing the war in Iraq.

We were exercising our First Amendment rights, said Winston Warfield of Dorchester, a member of the group. The First Amendment protects free speech, even when you dont agree with whats being said.

When Boston police asked the demonstrators to move from the front of the podium so that the Veterans Day services could continue, they refused. As the Boston Firemens Band played The Marine Hymn, several protesters were placed in plastic handcuffs and led away.

Our free speech and civil rights are being abridged here, said Nate Goldschlag, a Vietnam-era veteran who was among those standing in front of the podium. We are veterans, too, and we should be allowed to express our opposition to this war.

2007 Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/12/18_arrested_in_antiwar_protest_by_veterans/

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Shame on those police officers!!!!!
SHAME!!!! ... doing their job, you say? FUCK OFF!! :eyes:



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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not sure who you are talking to SR - I'm certainly not supporting the officers.
n/t
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Not you!
... of course! ;)



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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. They aren't called pigs for nothing.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
114. Oh stop. That is not the point of this thread and you know it.
n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is the new america
and why we need to hit the streets

By the way... this time this made it to papers... GOOD

And I salute those folks as Ameircan Heroes
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Absolutely Nadin. They love that we sit on the computers typing away.
While they steal Americans blind.

Absolutely. The computer has become in many ways our worst enemy.....of course as I sit here typing.

xoxo
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. not sure I agree with you there...
As always, it's how we use our computer that counts! I'm going to be using mine a great deal more to coordinate protests from now on! :patriot:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
66. Nothing says Veterans Day like putting a veteran in handcuffs.
Viet Nam veterans should be used to it by now. :cry:

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Freedom, What freedom?
These people fought for freedom, the bu$h regime uses the phrase fighting for freedom. WHAT FREEDOM?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's not the cops' fault or decision - they probably HATE to be doing this. Keep your
anger for those who deserve it.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They need to refuse the order. Police should refuse to act in ways which violate the Constitution
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 03:02 PM by shance
Because it affects their freedoms and future as well.


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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. They're not political activists, they're doing their job. I'm guessing there was
some legal (half-ass) justification for the arrests, otherwise they couldn't get away with it. Holding them accountable is like holding the troops in Iraq accountable for the war. Like we SHAMEFULLY seemed to hold the soldiers in Nam responsible for THAT war. Unforgivable. And I never want to make that grievous mistake again.



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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Perhaps you didnt know it was the Vietnam soldiers who refused to fight
they began revolting and rebelling. That is the essential reason the war machine of Vietnam shut down.

Watch the documentary Yes Sir No Sir! It will explain how that is exactly what has to happen. Those who are being used by the "slave masters" so to speak are the ones who can actually stop the war machine and the needless death and destruction.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
80. I think you mean "Sir! No Sir!"
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #80
117. Thank you - that's exactly what I meant.
:patriot:
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
81. Donovan
Universal Soldier Lyrics
Donovan
He's five foot-two, and he's six feet-four,
He fights with missiles and with spears.
He's all of thirty-one, and he's only seventeen,
Been a soldier for a thousand years.

He'a a Catholic, a Hindu, an Atheist, a Jain,
A Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew.
And he knows he shouldn't kill,
And he knows he always will,
Kill you for me my friend and me for you.

And he's fighting for Canada,
He's fighting for France,
He's fighting for the USA,
And he's fighting for the Russians,
And he's fighting for Japan,
And he thinks we'll put an end to war this way.

And he's fighting for Democracy,
He's fighting for the Reds,
He says it's for the peace of all.
He's the one who must decide,
Who's to live and who's to die,
And he never sees the writing on the wall.

But without him,
How would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau?
Without him Caesar would have stood alone,
He's the one who gives his body
As a weapon of the war,
And without him all this killing can't go on.

He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can't you see,
This is not the way we put the end to war.

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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #81
101. slight correction
It was written by Buffy Sainte-Marie. http://www.creative-native.com/lyrics/univelyr.htm
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #101
113. I noticed that too...
and am not surprised a "bluescribbler" did as well. ;)

(You should hear my Buffe St-Marie imitation!)

Much as I love Buffe St-Marie and Donovan Leitch and respect their singing and songwriting talents, I have to confess that this particular song has always disturbed me.

I remember so well when it was a top hit on the radio charts during the Vietnam War, and I felt then that it hit awfully damn hard at guys who were being drafted to go fight whether they wanted to or not. They risked doing serious prison time if they did not answer their draft notice and call to duty in the prescribed way.

However, the idea that the lyrics to "Universal Soldier" might make young people who hear the song think long and hard before volunteering for the armed services nowadays sits okay with me. I think individuals should ponder well and search their souls before signing up for an occupation wherein the primary thing they will be trained to do is to kill other human beings.

Reading this entire thread has been engaging and emotional for me. I began it last night very late -- fell asleep reading it, in fact -- then checked back through it again this morning.

I wondered then and still wonder if anyone here has caught the History Channel program Band of Bloggers, about U.S. soldiers in Iraq doing live blogging from the areas of operations there. I hope a great many viewers see it in the upcoming months and years as it is re-aired. Definitely offers a lot of food for thought -- for everyone, but especially for soldiers, their families, and those considering becoming soldiers, sailors, airmen, or marines.

As one of the bloggers from the show said (to paraphrase): "Don't think this is about liberating the Iraqi people or anything like that because it ain't. It's about liberating your fat asses so you can have $2.90 per gallon fuel at the pump!"

Another soldier blogger commented, after finding himself involved in a heavy firefight: "I was thinking, man, this was a really bad idea, joining the army and coming to Iraq. I'm going to get my ass killed here."

There's this thing some of my Vietnam vet pals call "the warrior class" -- individuals who feel a calling to protect others who are weaker and more vulnerable than themselves. Folks living in their own communities and countries who don't have either the means or the will to fight for themselves.

Warriors tend, I think, to have a very good understanding of just who they are and why they do what they do with their lives. But for everyone who doesn't see him- or herself in this class of special people yet who considers joining the armed forces for other reasons, I just have to hope that they're doing the requisite amount of careful reasoning and soul searching!

Takes a lot of courage, and frankly a pretty sharp analytical mind when it comes to military law as well as moral obligation, to "do the right thing" in refusing wrongful orders once you've signed on the dotted line with Uncle Sam....


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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #113
122. Thanks
I fancied myself a bit of a folksinger back in the day. Until I heard a recording of myself "singing", that is. :-)

I certainly didn't do the "requisite amount of careful reasoning and soul searching!" when I enlisted. I was fresh out of high school and didn't yet know what I wanted to do with my life. I knew I wasn't ready for college yet, and the draft was looming on my horizon, so I figured a tour in the Navy would help me figure things out. And, to a certain extent, it did. I learned that I wasn't cut out for military life, and that war, to me at least, is fundamentally wrong.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I'm sure the Gestapo officers in Nazi Germany were just "doing their job" too.
When "Doing you job" butts heads with what is morally right one's moral duty comes first.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. "I vas only folloink orderz!"
It's not so funny when it's taken out of the context of Hogan's Heroes. How have we become what we used to hate and scorn?
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Everyone who cares about the future of this country is a political activist
or should be.....
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
75. Spoken like a true "law and order" citizen.
It doesn't sound as if you've ever been arrested. MKJ
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freebrew Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
90. a mouse in your pocket?
'WE' do not hold the soldiers from Vietnam accountable for that war.
There were a few that followed illegal orders, some of that can be forgiven(then, there's My Lai).
The problems the guys from that war had with the 'people' had more to do with COINTELPRO
and not from the people's movement.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
94. Did you notice the commercially made sign around his neck
This must have been a staged event. The sign must have been made up in advance. I hate being sucker punched and this looks to me like that is about to happen.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. WTF does that have to do with anything?
So they have nice signs....

Does that mean they are paid protesters......on George Soros' payroll?

Maybe they are commies?

They look like pissed off Veterans for Peace to me.

WTF?
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
115. What a dumb thing to say.
Those are NOT necessarily even "commercially made" signs at all, anyhow! Sheesh....

These days anyone with a computer and printer can make up such signs in a few minutes. Just because some of these vets knew how (or had a friend or wife who knew how) to make decent printed signs means you are being "sucker punched"?

Because some thoughtful, concerned veterans, some of them aging and thus risking even more to be out there like that, love their country enough and took the time and had the sense to make up good signs so their message would be clearly seen and understood -- this means to you that you are about to be "sucker punched"?

Man, you got you some real heavy suspicious vibes going for ya there....

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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. How did they know in advance they would not be allowed to speak?
Maybe I am missing something here but I assumed they showed up for a veterans day event and were denied the right to speak at or participate in. I guess it is possible they were informed before hand they would not be allowed to participate. Now that I think about it more that is likely the case...
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. You bet they knew beforehand.
Organized "big parade holiday" events like this one generally require groups to register ahead of time in some fashion; and while I wasn't involved in this case, I'm pretty sure they were told in no uncertain terms that they would NOT be allowed to march in the parade with all the other veterans. They probably knew at least a couple of days before the parade date that they would have to do something along the sidelines.

I thought they were brilliant -- and even respectful, unlike the parade officials were to them -- to do it like they did, honestly.

Not only were they well organized themselves to come up with the new signs that emphasized the SILENCE that was being imposed on them (along with the bandannas around their mouths), they had probably also received treatment similar to this on previous occasions when this group had tried to participate in parades or events.

They could have put really nasty messages on their signs, and they could have shouted and behaved obnoxiously to get attention. But instead they took the high road and used their brains to create scenes that would "speak" loudly for them without disrespecting all the other vets that were allowed to march proudly. They also didn't disrespect the onlookers who were there to enjoy the day.

But they surely made their statement, anyway, didn't they!?

I'm very proud of them for their courage, their decency, their determination, and their fine example of how veterans should act and how all people should be respected and allowed to gather and speak, in spite of how they were treated!



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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. Sure, but it also could effect their dinner table.
If they get fired or put on leave without pay for refusing an order, then their paycheck suffers and so does their ability to provide for their families.

The culprits are the lawmakers who enact Constitution-busting laws against free speech, not the police who have to abide by the letter of those laws.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
56. Aw...compare their potential suffering to the actual torment at the Iraqi

dinner table. One million Iraqis dead.

One million places that will never be set at any table.

The cops' potential sacrifice seems paltry.

Compare their "might get fired" suffering to those who shed blood for the Constitution.

Aw.... a few missed meals. How terrible.

We should all be so lucky......


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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
86. I absolutely agree with you
when will we start seeing cops putting their sorry asses on the line and start rebelling against the evil empire?

I must say, though, that I was somewhat gladdened to hear a few sympathetic comments from the cops as they loaded the 92-year-old veteran into the paddy wagon.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
111. Yep they can step back from the situation and restore that peace.
They should always be peace officers first.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I've met some Boston cops
I'll bet they didn't enjoy arresting those veterans.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. The vet in the foreground is wearing the Purple Heart
:patriot::cry:
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. I didn't see that Sarge. Thank you for pointing that out.
n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. It sure looks like it - Purple Heart with star (multiple awards)
It's in the right order to be a Purple Heart ... precedence above a GCM and NSA.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Looks like a Nam service ribbon in there, too.
That man is a true warrior. He has never stopped fighting for what he loves.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. All parents should show their kids
how their kids who fight will be treated in the future.
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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
102. I'm not sure
I zoomed in, and I think it may be the Good Conduct ribbon. Looks more crimson than purple, to me.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #102
107. Top row looks to me like Purple Heart (gold star), National Defense, GCM.
Since I never really wore my own ribbons after getting a southeast asian suntan, and never spent the time memorizing their appearance and precedence, I could be quite wrong. I think that is the precedence, though. The bottom row DOES, however, look like it has the Vietnam Campaign (green/white) ribbon and the RVN Service (yellow/orange) ribbon.

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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. I hate the American Legion n/t
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. And their chickenshit fraud liar President who called himself a "Vietnam vet"
but never left Fort Dix!
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. is this what happens when you step outside of a "free speech zone"?
and I'm proud to be an american.......
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think it shows that the American Legion and VFW
is populated by a bunch of old asshole fogies. They support a president who went AWOL, who got high on drugs and wouldn't take a pee test, but won't support REAL VETERANS WHO DISAGREE WITH THEM.

My husband was so upset with the way they supported bush over a real hero John Kerry he dropped out of the VFW.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. When I was a girl, my dad took me by the shoulders,
looking direct into my eyes and said "Let me tell you about our veterans .."

It was on a Memorial Day, and we were at a parade. The WWI vets, then the WWII vets marched down the street. Many of the older parade watchers saluted these men as they went by, and many had tears in their eyes. I don't remember what I said, I was a small girl, but I must have said something awfully stupid.

It really shook my dad up. I know he shook me up when he spoke to me so sternly. He didn't have a mean bone in his body, I only knew his gentle side, so I sure did pay attention when he told me that whatever I think and do in life, I am to NEVER, EVER trivialize a veteran.

I learned from him not to just think of a vet as someone who just served for my freedom, but to understand what that vet might have had to endure. Quite possibly the unimaginable for my freedom. "Things a man doesn't talk about to their families."

I've never forgotten that lesson. This country is so easy to not only dismiss our veterans, but to disrespect them as well. Quite honestly, this administration is doing shameful wonders to disrespect the active duty. Keep them out of sight and out of mind. Use them when politically useful.

Seeing that picture in the original post breaks my heart, just as this administration willingness to use torture pains me.

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Sam Ervin jret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
49. I had one of those dad's too. He spoke of this day, worried about the infrastructure, the oil
spills etc.. and this was back in the late 60's early 70's.

They thought him utterly mad.

Turns out he was just very angry at the stupidity.

I hope these Men get to see the day their ideas are vindicated.
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kedrys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
88. My dad was born on Armistice Day
I found out pretty early in life why it was such a solemn day, even though I was born in Canada. I really wish they'd kept the name of the observance; it has a lot more history attached to it.
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bluescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #88
105. I agree
Armistice Day is sacred. Veterans' Day is not.

--Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast Of Champions
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. but, you know - we don't live in a police state
nope. :eyes:
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Most of the officers were 'nice' considering the circumstances.
Seventeen veterans and one Code Pink lady were arrested for disturbing an assembly.

Note the look on the faces of American Legion guys standing behind us.




The oldest veteran arrested was 92.

We were all out by 7PM-ish.

Oh yea, we had a little thing going




Did any DUers attend? What was your take?
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Powerful pictures - thank you for posting/
n/t
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jackster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. as a Vet, these photos bring tears to my eyes
I'm so proud of our Massachusetts veterans standing up!
Thank the universe for men and women like this who understand the REAL price of freedom
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. great pics, thanks for sharing
:thumbsup:
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. I'm proud of those Vets and thanks for the pics! n/t
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kimmylavin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. Great pictures.
Brave men.
Screwed up country.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
61. As a European woman reading DU, these veterans wearing their flag upside down
bring tears to my eyes. Hundreds of millions worldwide want you to take your country back and will help in any way we can.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
67. thank you!
:hug:
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
70. I'm so proud of those men
A 92 year old too. Bless them for fighting for the men and women in Iraq. These men should have been joined by all the veterans.

:patriot:

Sonia
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
74. Thank you Solider.
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
95. I wish I had been there to support the veterans for peace.
Thanks unhappy camper! :hug:
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rabies1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
97. Think someday soon you wont be able to post these photos?
Thanks for sharing.
These are remarkable men.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
103. Thanks for posting those pics...
a question, however.

How does that situation get resolved? Obviously, the protesting vets have interrupted the Memorial Day ceremony by standing in front of the podium. Was it their goal to shut down the ceremony entirely, or were they going to protest for a period of time and then let the ceremony continue?

If they weren't going to leave of their own volition, should the remainder of the Memorial Day ceremony be scrapped?

I'm conflicted about this. The vets have a right to protest, obviously. But should the protest be allowed to be indefinately disruptive?

Sid
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. What kind of moran does a person have to be
To think that every Veteran must support every subsequent war? How ironic to have fought for this country and then have someone tell you they don't want to hear your opinion on a subsequent war. You'd think in that case, your opinion would count extra.

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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Veterans should support peace
The whole purpose of war is not to fuel the military industrial complex but to protect the innocent and peaceful against harm. It's not about promoting the empire either which some veterans might think. It's a travesty to silence veterans who support peace -- promoting peace is exactly what they and everyone else should be doing.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Shut up and wave your flag.
:evilfrown:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Those protesting vets are true patriots!
God bless them. :patriot:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. Whatg a disgrace...arresting veterans trying to exercise the rights they fought to maintain.....
SO our soldiers can fight and die to preserve democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan, but cannot make use of its benefits here in America...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm What's wrong with that picture??
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. "SO our soldiers can fight and die to preserve democracy....
in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Is that why the US Troops are in those countries?
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. That is what prez shit-for-brains claims...as do his brain-dead supporters...
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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. That's one of the most heartbreaking pictures I've ever seen.


Where is my country?

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
37. Ironic beyond words.
They fought for our freedom .... er uhm fought for .... what again?
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
39. Veterans Against the War & MFSO
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 05:34 PM by xxqqqzme
were excluded from the parade in Long Beach today. They were told the parade organizors didn't want protest. Both groups marched in the Parade last year w/o incident.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
40. Wow. What an iconic, defining picture!
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rockybelt Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. Arrests
It scares me that this seems to be happening all over the country. People being arrested or being refused the right to march on Veterans day. I mean VETERANS being refused the right to march!
Is Blackwater already training our city and state police?

THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN GERMANY!

Torture, arrests, no habeas corpus, spying, private army, kidnappings, police brutality.....Does anyone recognize a pattern here?

THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN GERMANY!

Anybody that criticizes the administration is trashed. Incompetent loyalists promoted within the party. Dissenters fired from public office. The justice system politicized.

THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN GERMANY!

Leader (president) grabbing more and more power. Complicit congress.

THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN GERMANY!

THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN GERMANY!

THE SAME THING HAPPENED IN GERMANY!
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. All that is needed is a
Law that says that you can sue any one denying you your rights and that especially means the police. The police or to protect our right to free speech. If arresting a person exercising their right to free speech, they must present a signed statement, with the person name on it, who gave the order to stop the peaceful right to free speech. A permit to protest is a violation, of the constitution and this should not, be allowed to stand
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eagler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
43. The American Legion and the VFW have done much to ensure
a voice for veterans in receiving all of the benefits they are due. Having said that, I recently surrendered my lifetime membership in the VFW because of their intolerance for any anti-war sentiment and I let them know why. It's a double edged sword. Veterans would be lost without them, but intolerance for free speech can never be tolerated.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
45. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
to whoever ordered these arrests.

I thank those brave men who stood in protest to Big Oil's war.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
46. Modern-day version of America's Tienanmen Square, the Bonus Army March
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 06:45 PM by EVDebs
See "Intervention of the military" at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

The gentlemen are in good company. They know who they are and are willing to pay the price, today as then. Hat's off to that almighty force, the ordinary man (as Robert Service has said).
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
48. Deserter for War
What do you expect? A deserter is now president.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
50. Well, you know, these damn longhair hippies are always protesting something ...
Oh ... wait ...
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. Dishonoring the service of all Vets.
They did NOT fight, bleed and die so that only comfortable opinion and expression would be free. Their sacrifice must never be in vain, and the liberties they afford us must never EVER be selective.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
52. Veteran's Day is no longer about veterans; it's a celebration of the wars they fought in
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
53. This has got to stop
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 07:41 PM by MissDeeds
Seriously. Day by day we see rights denied and democratic rule eroded. Not only has the f*tard in the White House eviscerated the Constitution - and gotten away with it, the average citizen is increasingly becoming the victim of the government and this new world order. We cannot speak out without fear of reprisal. We no longer are assured a right to privacy as our emails, telephones calls, and books ordered online or borrowed from libraries can be scrutinized. Now this. These good and patriotic vets who risked their lives for this country are treated like thugs - in our streets - on Veterans' Day!

Good God, I never thought I would live to see this happen here, in our United States. I am ashamed of what this country is becoming.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
54. .
Happy Veteran's Day.

:nuke:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
55. Horrible.
:cry:

Apparently speech is only free when it's "approved".
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
57. Don't you know that soldiers and veterans are supposed to vote 100% gop?
:sarcasm:
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
110. Shit! Missed another commander's call and didn't hear the poop from the group.
More :sarcasm:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
58. Soldiers of Conscience.
I thank them for their continuing service to this country.
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
62. My Dad turns 88 on Thanksgiving Day
He is a WWII vet, and he was protesting this war in August. I'm proud to thank my Dad today for his service to his country, and for the example he has provided to his children.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #62
82. my departed uncle (Pearl Harbor survivor)loathed Bush
(grandfather's nephew, but an "uncle" anyway) he served in the Navy and was fuming when Idiot Boy did his "mission accomplished" show...called me and damned near burned up the phone line with his anger.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. wow...yeah...happy fricking veterans day. picture speaks a thousand words. k&r. n/t
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NoGodsNoMasters Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
64. This is f**ked up.
Neo-Nazis can march with police protection, even through minority neighborhoods. These guys ARE veterans, simply holding placards displaying they're political beliefs as they are entitled to do under our constitution. WTF??? This country's going down the wrong track.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. What a good point. The KKK gets protection, look what our best get.
Yep Id agree with you.

It is indeed f***ed up.



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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
68. Powerful pictures. Thank you for posting these

These veterans have a right to speak... more than anybody.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
69. welcome to the new world order, i guess
i am not quite speechless, but ever other word is fuck.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
71. They must be some of those phony soldiers
Rash Limbaugh identified. Who better than Rash to know what makes a phony soldier. He wrote the book.
Glad I don't belong to the American Legion.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
72. Shame! Shame! Shame!
I'm glad my dad passed last year, before he saw this!

Not another dime to the American Legion or to the VFW.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
73. Kick. (nt)
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
77. SHAME ON BOSTON...............
what happened to the seat of rebellion & fire brand liberty. Your Patriot forbearer's are rolling over in their graves.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #77
91. Shame on the American Legion is more like it
This is nothing to be pinned on an entire city.
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
78. Kick
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
79. These Veterans for PEACE are getting
Heard LOUD & CLEAR through their Silences and their Arrests!

This isn't OVER.
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Counciltucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
83. Hell of a way to honor our veterans...
...by taking away the freedoms they fought to maintain.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
84. Agreed, but one small bone to pick
I'm a Harvard grad, and like all of my friends, I "paid" to go there with massive amounts of financial aid. And I ate my meals freshman year in Memorial Hall, which is dedicated to the memories of Harvard alums who have lost their lives defending this country.

I'm not saying there are non over-privileged students at places like Harvard, but the vast majority of them have much less of a silver spoon in their mouths than I suppose you imagine and I can assure you that the *vast* majority of current Harvard undergrads would be appalled at the way these veterans were treated. Let's not paint with such a broad brush.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #84
116. Thank you for posting - you bring up a valid point.
I was raised in an area many consider pretty elitist and/or "high brow" and yet there were many back in the sixties/seventies who were not elitist or high brow.

My point is there is a reality of those who come from great privilege, are given carte blanche access and treatment, who go to the best schools and just happen to avoid the call of duty that millions of other Americans are expected to do.

It is one set of rules for those who happen to be lucky enough to be born into privilege and another set of rules for those who weren't born into that world.

Are there exceptions?

Absolutely.

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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. No doubt.
And our President is a prime example of which you speak. In any case, on the whole, I believe we are in complete agreement.
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SEABEE Chief Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
85. This has me so disturbed...
by the time I arrived at this section of the thread the tears welling up in my eyes made for difficult reading. I am wicked disgusted.
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stephinrome Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
87. video of march
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
89. When truth meets well nurtured illusion, truth is often arrested
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
92. geez, this is so disgusting, now everyone is treated like a
criminal. I despise the BCF.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
93. Damn phony vets!!
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
98. Though I agree with the spirit of your post, scapegoating 2 Ivy league schools
is a little unfair. First, though Yale is not in Boston, you forgot to mention MIT, Tufts, BU, BC and all those other colleges whose students "dodged" the war but whose protesting (whatever their motives) played a part in its ending. And you overlook those Yalies who did go to war, and who may actually be one of those arrested. You are spot on about Harvard students, though.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
99. disgusting... will send to so called "military" backers I know
K&R
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
100. IN A RELATED STORY-----
IN A RECENT SIGNING STATEMENT, RESIDENT W BUSH HAS DECLARED HIMSELF A WAR HERO, PINNED A MEDAL ON HIMSELF, AND REWROTE THE HISTORY OF VIETNAM TO INCLUDE HIS EXPLOITS. OF SPECIFIC INTEREST, WHERE HE SINGLE HANDEDLY RESCUED THE NUNS AND ORPHANS IN MAI WHET DREEMS, AND WHERE HE FLEW HIS SOPWITH CAMEL AGAINST THE RED BARON.

DICK CHENEY PLACED A WREATH OF HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS AT THE TOMBSTONE OF THE UNKNOWN CEO, REFERING TO IT AS HIS A-WREATH-A FRANKLINS. HE REMINDED THE PUBLIC OF HIS HEROISM IN DESTROYING THE TERRORISTS ON THE OIL-RICH PLANET OF ALDERAN

CONDI RICE DECLARED THAT SHE HAD MORE BLACK ROOTS THAN ELLEN BURSTYN, AND THAT SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN A SOLDIER IF SHE HAD BEEN BORN WITH A DICK RATHER THAN BEING SADDLED WITH A BUSH
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
104. I'm currently reading Gulag Archipeligo...
and I'm at the beginning where Lenin is "arresting" the vets of WWI that fought in foreign lands because they were "contaminated" with foreign ideals.

Never happen here, huh?
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
106. I tell you what..those are some BRAVE men to stand up...
They knew they were gonna take shit for speaking the truth, and take shit they did. They stood tall and proud, girded by the truth (or that's what it looks like to me reviewing these photos)
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
108. Sunday afternoon, in Federal Way, WA
There was a group of gray haired veterans standing at a busy intersection. I saw the flags first, but then when I got closer, I saw they had signs saying "Impeach Bush" and other signs about getting Out Of Iraq, Bring Our Troops Home, and "Honk For Peace".
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
109. More than 31,000 views on this thread.



There must be a link to it in Google or Yahoo! or another widely used service.




Take a look at this, visitors ....


OxyRush Limbaugh is a
lying, devious asshole.




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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
112. The Rich Boys and Girls are Getting Scared
gee, I wonder why?
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #112
121. They should be scared of getting their asses drafted
which just might happen if the poor pace of enlistment keeps lagging.

K & R!
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