The Republicans see a major opportunity in bringing the Cheney impeachment to a vote

[jpgray]

Bernie Sanders called impeachment a "Karl Rove wet dream," and I trust his judgment. The media and PR advantage the GOP could get out of this may be very real, and the evidence of their voting seemingly against their own interests only supports that. As some posters said, this could be seen as a highly risky maneuver, but I believe that the GOP must know that there is not any significant risk. To my mind they are so firmly sided with this administration that impeachment is not currently a serious danger to Bush or Cheney. Otherwise this vote against tabling Dennis's motion is simply inexplicable. What do they have planned?

[Phillycat]

1. Help me understand...

They want impeachment discussions because:

a. They want this to take up the Dem's time and energy while they are the majority?

b. They want the distraction from Bush's dismal approval ratings?

c. They think this will hurt the Dem races in 2008?

d. They are in close races themselves and want to appear a bit more left-leaning to constituents?

Or all or some or none of the above? There's no way they want to do this because they actually stand up for the constitution or they believe Cheney deserves it, or they're tired of his bullying or any of the other stupid things people are saying at the moment. So what's the real reason?

[jpgray]

2. D is instantly rejectable. B and C seem the most likely options

This will not be an honest and fair airing of Cheney's crimes. What it will be, I'm not sure, but I guarantee it will be played to the hilt by the GOP.

[redqueen]

15. D is also "distancing themselves from this disastrous and wildly unpopular administration"

Is it really so rejectable?

[dflprincess]

3. We're not talking about a blow job - or lying about getting a BJ -

If there were hearings and every rotton thing Cheney has been up to comes out, do they really think people will react to it the way the reacted to Clinton's impeachment?

[Phillycat]

16. They've only got an hour!

How many rotton things can they get out there? Have you ever watched a floor discussion? It's posturing and not much else.

It's an hour each side. I think this is just to make us look stupid.

[cali]

6. I think they want it for a couple of reasons: 1) it makes Pelosi

and Hoyer look weak. 2) They know there's no time for a substantive case with evidence to be presented, and they can make out that the impeachment articles are purely political, and 3) they do believe there's political hay to be made.

[MrCoffee]

12. correct on all counts, cali

[cali]

29. Thanks, Mr. C.

we've now entered the political twilight zone. Let's see if the hapless dems can do anything to pull their fat out of the fire.

[redqueen]

17. No substantive case?

Are you joking?

[Phillycat]

18. In an hour?

There's no way!

[redqueen]

23. I don't see why not.

They lied us into a war.

There's what... a quintile of the population that doesn't recognize that fact?

Billions wasted. Thousands of lives lost. For a lie. That's pretty frickin easy to summarize.

[Phillycat]

27. But I mean...it won't pass.

It's not like the American electorate gets to vote or anything. The resolution will fail, and it's only an hour in the House at the end of the day, and it won't get reported on too much (it's not on cnn.com yet, for instance) and the Repukes can all go forward from here saying the Dems have already tried the impeachment thing and failed miserably and Cheney was cleared!

[redqueen]

28. Any repukes voting to excuse the criminal...

will be great for OUR side, in the next election.

It's a win/win IMO.

It's never a waste of time to hold criminals accountable.

[Phillycat]

30. Well, I sure hope you're right, love.

They are nasty people and I'm waiting nervously to see what their real agenda is. In the meantime, hoping is never a bad thing, you're right about that. :)

[redqueen]

32. More than being right... I think this is good for POLITICS...

SO many people think it's corrupt to the core, and so hopeless to bother with.

This may give those people a glimmer of hope... a reason to think that there might be something worth salvaging.

[Nederland]

39. Lying hard to prove

Proving that what they said was false is easy--the facts speak for themselves.

Proving that they knew it was untrue is much more difficult. Barring some sort of memo saying "I know Saddam doesn't have WMD but let's say he does so we can invade" you simply can't prove it.

[cali]

31. no ma'am.

You can't present a substantive case in 30 minutes. And that's how much time the dems will have. Furthermore, they aren't prepared to do it.

[redqueen]

33. Well we will just have to disagree on that one.

:hi:

[Phillycat]

24. Yours seems the most likely explanation.

Thanks for helping me understand. I don't have the most devious political mind, but I know when I'm being bullshitted, and the shit is thick with this thing.

[EFerrari]

4. In order for this to be a gift to them, the Democrats have to give it away.

Choose your own adventure.

[jpgray]

7. No, for this to be a gift it needs to fail and be a powerful PR lever against the Democrats

How they plan to effect this, I admit I don't know exactly. But there's no other explanation for the vote that I can see.

[EFerrari]

14. They can't unraise the question. They can't unread the facts

out of the record.

Dennis did well.

:)

[caligirl]

21. Let's see, Cheney's crimes are glossed over as Larry Flynt rides to the rescue with

tales of BJ's and little boys in the executive office building as Cheney worked through the night.

Hows that for a gift?

[angstlessk]

5. WHY..when over 60% of americans want cheney impeached???

I do not understand this???

[jpgray]

9. Because it will fail and the GOP sees some benefit out of that failure

I can't -know- that for sure, and I'm not devious enough to know what form the attack will take, but I can't wrap my head around any other explanation for this vote.

[angstlessk]

40. well, the fool democrats voted to censure Moveon.org..and are still lambasted

by republicans and the president...SO IT MATTERS NOT what we do...so lets get the suckers!

[jpgray]

41. Now that it's gone forward we need to go at it with both barrels, I agree

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. You trurst Bernie Sanders?

I trust Dennis Kucinich.

[jpgray]

11. I trust both. I'm caucusing for Dennis.

[tsuki]

10. I believe that the Republicans are unaware of how far they lowered

the bar for impeachment. They will have a hard time convincing more than 24% of America that lying, stealing, cronyism, self-riching is less serious than a blow job.

[spanone]

13. really? cheney polling at 9% and you think this is a risk? naw

[jpgray]

19. I'm sorry, but it is. It "politicizes" all investigation on Cheney

It also submits all the evidence to an up or down vote. Which is not the standard by which it should be examined--the GOP and a minority of skittish Democrats will not vote to impeach, and the debate time doesn't seem to provide the possibility for any serious vetting of the evidence.

[spanone]

35. any investigation in congress is polliticized. gotta start somewhere

[jpgray]

37. But if the GOP can claim the goal of investigation is impeachment, it hurts credibility

Not in the mind of any sane person, but in the media? You bet.

[Phillycat]

38. Or rather, that the impeachment question is politically motivated, not substantive.

That's what they're going for. This thread has been most illuminating, thanks.

[Blackhatjack]

20. They want to get DEMS on the record on the impeachment question for political purposes...

... they will be responsible for the resolution being debated and voted on, but they will point out that the DEM controlled Congress is more interested in politics than getting things done.

[caligirl]

26. Truth is the repugs voting record on Schip and others got in our way,

we aren't getting things done, their votes caused it. so why not go for the criminal.

[iamthebandfanman]

22. just remember, if you think they are that smart and capable of pulling this off

then they are.


if we would stay united for impeachment, it could happen.

[jpgray]

I don't believe this Congress can make this impeachment successful. And it should be!

The failure of this impeachment must be seen in some way as benefiting the GOP, there must be some extra victory for them beyond simply tabling the resolution. What that is? I'm not sure, but it has to be something useful for '08 or just damaging to the Democrats in general.

[AntiFascist]

25. I strongly disagree...

I feel that getting these issues out in the open is of primary importance. The GOP must be aware that Cheney has a single digit approval rating, which means there are plenty of Republicans who don't support him.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Whaterver their motivations, maybe we'll have a real debate.

And, at least, shake out blue dogs and force them to take a stand one way or the other.

[jpgray]

36. We need to make the best of this, whatever their motivation, absolutely