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So there is no difference between the two major parties Ralph?

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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:01 PM
Original message
So there is no difference between the two major parties Ralph?
Is that right? Do you still believe that crap? Does anyone here believe that?
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SteelPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. I didn't believe it then
The difference for me is that in 2000 I didn't think people who couldn't see that were morons.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. It sure looks like he was right....I can't see much difference between
the two parties...today puts the cherry on the cake as far as I'm concerned...
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Remember the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act?
You know, the one the Republicans successfully filibustered? And the vote that failed to break it was completely party-line?

No, of course you don't.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Remember the budget and funding for Iraq? Condemnation of MoveOn.org?
Nader was wrong in some ways but clearly correct in too many ways.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The first reflects American opinion.
Americans do not want an immediate withdrawal. They want a phased withdrawal, and Democratic attempts to create one were defeated by the veto. As for the second, well, that was the most meaningless crock-of-shit "scandal" in a long time.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Yeah, no doubt Al Gore would have invaded Iraq, instituted a policy condoning torture,
Edited on Tue Nov-06-07 03:57 PM by 11 Bravo
vetoed SCHIP, given us RW shitstains like Roberts and Alito on the SCOTUS, and started laying the groundwork for a war with Iran. (By the way, what color is the sky in your world?)
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. And yet ... the Democrats in Congress made it all possible.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. By treasonously not having enough votes to overcome
a filibuster or a veto.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well... let's ignore the rhetoric and look at outcomes for a moment.
Under the Republican Congress:
  • Rubber stamp for Bush's agenda
  • Erosion of personal privacy
  • Kissing the Constitution goodbye
  • War in Iraq
  • Massive spending while giving tax breaks mostly to the wealthy
  • EPA and Dept of Interior caving in on critical environmental and ecological issues.
  • Torture is now legal.



Under the Democratic Congress:
  • Rubber stamp for Bush's agenda
  • Erosion of personal privacy
  • Kissing the Constitution goodbye
  • War in Iraq, moving toward war in Iran
  • No change in spending or taxation
  • EPA and Dept of Interior continues to cave in on critical environmental and ecological issues.
  • Torture is remains legal.


Care to find some huge differences between the Republican and Democratic Congress?
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I stopped reading after the first one there.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. A great way to extend a debate -- only read the stuff you like. How the impeachment coming?
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Debate? It's charged broad-brush nonsense there.
There's no good response to any of that other than "that's untrue" or "yes, but only because Democratic attempts to fix that were filibustered/vetoed."
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Take another look at the OP. Look at the vote today on Kucinich's impeachment bill.
Then tell me about the differeences between the parties.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I suppose if the only issues you find valuable
are the issues for which the Democrats do not have enough votes to successfully accomplish, then it would seem to you that the Democrats are worthless.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Not enough votes? How many Dems voted for tabling the bill? Against? And the Republicans?
I understand you point in some instances, but not this one.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The Republican vote was part of a game.
The first votes showed the Democrats unable to sustain an impeachment vote. Everything after that was Republicans attempting to position themselves. I believe they weren't quite sure if they wanted an impeachment vote--that is, if they thought the political gain from the crushing defeat of an impeachment resolution outweighed the extra news time allotted to criticism of the administration.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. So basically, there is a difference if you focus properly.
However, on many critical issues that were very important to Nader, he was correct -- there is little difference between the parties.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I think that with any Democratic president,
there would be a much sharper-looking difference. Without that veto threat, suddenly the Democrats are able to actually do the things they want.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. We are all hoping that is true.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Is this some kind of joke or something?
Have you been ignoring fucking just about everything in Washington for the past year or so?

What the fuck?
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sure there's a difference
Republicans got beat twice with the help of a third-party candidate, and instead of shitting on those who voted for him, attacked Clinton relentlessly, even going so far as to impeach him over total bullshit.

Democrats have no fucking guts, so they still pule over Nader seven years after the fact.

See? There's a difference after all.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. What's a pule?
Is that newspeak?

If you have never seen the relentless attacks of Bush and his cronies every day on this board and blogs/radio shows across the country, then you are deliberately ignoring them or lying your ass off about us.

Nadir is a douche-bag, and deserves whatever we have to dish out. Where has he been the last 3 years? Is there not lead in our toys? Hello? Echo! Ralph? Anybody home? He did the same thing. He helped Bush steal the election, then disappeared and skipped town for 4 years, and magically showed up again, as the "savior of the nation" to once again say "There's no difference...".
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-07-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. "Pule" is oldspeak for "cry like a titty-baby"
Like Dems do when they scapegoat the left, and then expect to win.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. The mainstream media depicts the parties as interchangable. And some DUers buy it.
"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. Stop being intellectually lazy.
One several issues the Democrats are different than the Republicans, but on several other issues the Democrats are simply too close to the Republicans. Defending the Constitution is one of them.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
22. Okay if you believe that
feel free to not vote and let the Republicans keep control of Congress and the White House then.
Just sayin.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. I voted Democratic in every election. That will stay the same...
next year too.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. i believe it more and more strongly every day.
and i keep being proven right for it.
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