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An article that just kicks the **ever-lovin' shit** out of Tim Russert. Enjoy.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:19 AM
Original message
An article that just kicks the **ever-lovin' shit** out of Tim Russert. Enjoy.
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:21 AM by WilliamPitt
I sure as hell did. Russert is so full of shit, he squeaks going into a turn; you can smell him coming two counties away.

Thanks for helping Cheney's hatchet-men blow up a WMD-hunting CIA NOC agent, Timmy. Valerie Plame, remember?

Thanks, also, for helping them destroy the in-country networks she assembled to gather WMD-threat intelligence data (real threats, I mean, not the bullshit ones you helped spread far and wide...do you even know the difference between "real" and "bullshit" anymore, you jackal?).

When she was exposed, every person within her networks who was ever seen in public with her was blown as well. You might just have helped get some of them killed, Tim-bo. For real. Brewster-Jennings? Yeah, you helped fuck that all up, too.

But hey, at least you were able to weather the storm and maintain your cushy off-the-record-at-all-times relationships with all those senior Bush officials, especially the ones who used you to nuke Plame, her networks and her cover-story office.

You protect them, and in return they come on your breathtakingly useless Sunday blatherfest, and they spew bullshit, and you always allow their bullshit to pass unchallenged (real news people call these things "follow-up questions"; you should actually maybe ask one someday)...

...and because you're always so nice and off-the-record and shit, they keep coming back on your show for more unchallenged bullshit spewage, which makes you look like a real journalist to people who don't know any better, and you get invited to all the DC-power-people cocktail parties, and that's what matters, right?

Asshead.

(Sorry for the rant, here's the article, feast)

Tim Russert: Stop the Inanity

Russert passes for a "tough" interviewer by adopting a confrontational pose rather than asking genuinely challenging questions. Which is why he's a terrible moderator for our presidential debates.

By Paul Waldman
The American Prospect

October 31, 2007

Last month, near the end of the Democratic presidential debate in New Hampshire, moderator Tim Russert -- known as "Washington's toughest interviewer" and perhaps the most influential journalist in America -- had one last chance to pin the candidates down with his legendary common sense, persistence, and no-bull style. This is what he asked, first to Barack Obama: "There's been a lot of discussion about the Democrats and the issue of faith and values. I want to ask you a simple question. Senator Obama, what is your favorite Bible verse?"

(snip)

I have a fantasy that at one of these moments, a candidate will say, "You know what, Tim, I'm not going to answer that question. This is serious business. And you, sir, are a disgrace. You have in front of you a group of accomplished, talented leaders, one of whom will in all likelihood be the next president of the United States. You can ask them whatever you want. And you choose to engage in this ridiculous gotcha game, thinking up inane questions you hope will trick us into saying something controversial or stupid. Your fondest hope is that the answer to your question will destroy someone's campaign. You're not a journalist, you're the worst kind of hack, someone whose efforts not only don't contribute to a better informed electorate, they make everyone dumber. So no, I'm not going to stand here and try to come up with the most politically safe Bible verse to cite. Is that the best you can do?"

(snip)

If nothing else, at least we're deep enough into the presidential campaign that we don't have to suffer through Russert's endless "Are you running for president? Are you? Are you?" quizzing of potential candidates. But that's what passes for being a "tough" interviewer these days: the pose of confrontation rather than genuinely challenging questions, the query designed to embarrass rather than enlighten, the worship of, rather than the challenge to, conventional wisdom.

The two parties' nominees will be decided three months from now, and we can be sure that in that time, at least one or two candidates will have their campaigns upended by the answer they gave to an absurd question, delivered by Tim Russert or someone like him, about what their favorite Bible verse is, or whom they want to win the Super Bowl, or what kind of beer they like. "Aha!" the reporters will shout, as though they actually unearthed something revealing on which the race for the presidency of the most powerful nation on earth should be decided. The one whose tiny little mind devised the question will be praised to the stars for his journalistic acumen.

And they'll continue to wonder why so many Americans are so cynical about our electoral process.

BOOM: http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=tim_russert_stop_the_inanity
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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for posting.
He has turned journalism yellow. He spews Cheney's agenda in trade for continued access. He is corrupt beyond belief. His actions after Katrina were also particularly revealing, IMHO.
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dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. Russert is a M$M stooge, like someone said, a pile of Buffalo shit, no, a pile of West Seneca shit.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #75
90. Whoa There!
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 08:21 PM by datavg
Is he from West Seneca? I thought he grew up in the Polish part of Buffalo.

We used to know some people from West Seneca. We went walleye fishing with them every year in Canada. I remember driving up the Thruway from Cleveland late nights on those trips, in order to make Toronto before the traffic got bad. I always drove at night because the glare during the day got to me. When morning comes, I'm hosed...I've had it. I pull over and hand the wheel to someone else. A good friend of my dad's is the same way.

Flying Cessnas at night is easier for me for the same reasons. Even my landings are better. Don't know why.

I haven't had a real Molson's in years. Remember the teardrop bottles?

Do you remember Old Vienna? I don't think they make it anymore.

Now I've suddenly got a hankering for back bacon and maple syrup.

Shit.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good article
And good introduction by you.


More and more progressives are awakening to what a shallow, intellectually and morally corrupt institution American journalism has become across the board. That's a good thing, and I think this next election will awaken even more progressives to their utter banality, as the mainstream media will be sure to protect, coddle and promote whatever Republican piece of garbage gets to crawl out from under its rock to go against Hillary, or whoever.

I've been saying for a while not to worry about the media coming back, they're on their way. They've been mewling, fearful and obedient scribes for BushCo since the 2000 campaign, but when a Democrat gets in there, and not just Hillary - any Dem, they will be snide, nasty and completely cynical. They come back when it's a Dem in power. And you can see it already starting, where they treat Hillary like they did Al Gore. They'll make things up if they can't turn reality into something negative about Dems. They fear Republicans vicerally, and like the guy getting the shit kicked out of him by his boss, they come home to attack the wifey who respects them and actually tries to make the world better. They are 'kiss-up and kick-down' as an entire institution. Dems are going to get kicked and kicked hard no matter what they do. They are returning right on schedule.

The one thing I'd like people to understand as they watch this unfold is that they aren't going to get better, they're going to get worse. But don't think of that with fear and trepidation - use it to understand that you simply can't and never will be able to rely on them again for honesty on anything but the most trivial level, ie the specific physical details of something that happened. You can't and you don't want to trust them. They have betrayed journalism down to the core, and it's never coming back. Once you give up on them, and that doesn't mean not watching them or not getting furious at them and blasting them, you can move on to putting your main trust in news sources that aren't part of the rightwing-conventional-wisdom establishment.

I think they should be mocked and humiliated out of their careers whenever possible, but they hold the microphone and they stick together. I'm hoping the internet will provide for the absolute destruction of corporate media. I see a strong possibility there. In the meantime watch them get tough again. Watch them work, and realize they're getting worse all the time. The transition from Repub to Dem, like it was from Dem to Repub, should provide a tremendous amount of awareness of what they're all about to anyone who takes the time to watch the difference and learn from them. I know I did when we went from Clinton to Bush.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Russert epitomizes what is wrong with the MSM
And the bible verse question at the debate :wtf: is a perfect example of the media framing in the image desired by the neocons, and why it will be so difficult to reverse this process. Every time the framework is presented and validated (by responding to such stupid questions) we move a little further from reality. At some point, we're not even going to know what the hell reality is anymore. We'll only know how it's been framed. Recalibrating reality, if you will, is a very dangerous thing to do...but that's never stopped any dominant civilization from doing so, and it is that redefinition of reality to conform to the will of the dominant state that has ultimately been that state's downfall.

So thanks, Mr. Russert, for perpetuating the Great Lie, and leading us ever closer to our own demise.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Russert testified under oath that he takes calls from the WH.
How he still has any credibility is beyond me.

And, he apparently never mastered the art of reading aloud...MKJ
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. K&R
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
104. Why are the Democrats' debates monitored by these Bushies?
Why are Democrats cooperating with those types? Why don't they get more intelligent people to monitor their debates? How are the debates set up? Do the TV networks organize them? Surely the Democrats know better than that.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. I just got up and logged on
and this was the first thing I read. Made my whole day.

Russert is the political equivalent of the hero worshipping jock sniffing sports writer. He is in awe of the famous and powerful and he seems almost giddy when giving somebody like cheney one of his patented 60 minute on air blow jobs.

The whole act is wearing a little thin for those of us who have been paying attention.

Just another obsequious sycophantic toady.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks much.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. The UFO question sealed the deal.
His orders for the day must have included "make them look like they're nuts."
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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Exactly, especially since Kucinich had questioned *'s mental health earlier in the day.
Can't you just hear the Smirkstir barking orders at Timmy? "You make them look nuts, or no more late night visits to the WH."
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. Timmeh Potato Head--EXTRAORDNINARE!--in his own effin' mind.
Article really does get to the crux, doesn't it? These puffed-up animations of inquiry stuggle so mightily to seem like savants. I've seen better evidence of intelligence in plowed up fields, or in the stall muck--someone remind me, why, in this "Propaganda Nation", why I went to school?

Never suffer fools gladly, nor with silence.

NoFederales
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. Potato head? Are you thinking of Tim Russet ? nt
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Russert is overrated.
He should go back to talking about his father 24/7. At least that didn't damage the country.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Timmy (apologies to South Park)
is just doing the bidding of his corporate masters. Our free press died when it was sold to the highest bidders. When he frames the question with "Will you take a pledge" in the context of a hypothetical situation, the candidate should know it's a set up for a future knock down. The only pledge a candidate should make is to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. And keep repeating that pledge until Timmy gets the message that his second hand excuse for journalism has been exposed. Furthermore, having a head that resembles a pumpkin makes him easier to marginalize.
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well Put Will....
I was so disgusted with Russert that I could not even finish watching the debate. He was the ultimate ass and beyond disingenuous.
K&R to you.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. thanks for posting - excellent article
Russert is a disgrace.


I also fantasize about a candidate or guest calling him on his bullshit. Or better yet, reaching across his MTP desk and just clocking him a good one right upside the head...
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dick Cheney's interviewer of choice! nt
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Very good article
Tim Russert is a GE whore doing his master's bidding.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. Good. He's in the Most Deserving Top Ten. n/t
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Trouser Trout Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. Great Article. Thank You
This paragraph was especially sweet:

If an interviewer forgets to bring up Buffalo, Russert surely will. Asked by Kurtz how he avoids getting an inflated ego when he spends time interviewing presidents (a softball question designed just for Russert; try to imagine Kurtz asking the same thing of Tom Brokaw), Russert responded, "If you come from Buffalo, everything else is easy. Walking backwards to school, for a mile in the snow, grounds you for life." When Bill Moyers asked Russert whether he relied too much on the word of Bush administration officials during the run-up to the Iraq War, Russert replied, "Look, I'm a blue-collar guy from Buffalo. I know who my sources are. I work 'em very hard. It's the mid-level people that tell you the truth." Any questions about his being too close to the establishment are met with "Blue-collar! Buffalo!", brandished like a cross before the vampire of accountability. Russert may be the only journalist in America who considers all his conversations with government officials off the record unless they request otherwise -- an extraordinary gift to the powerful and an inversion of ordinary journalistic practice -- but that doesn't make him an insider. Because he's from Buffalo.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. Yeah. He's "Ol' Buffalo Bone", according to his sister.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
121. "Blue-collar! Buffalo!", brandished like a cross before the vampire of accountability.
Nice. :thumbsup:
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. My daughter's 9th grade class is reading
Fahrenheit 451. In conjunction with the book, the students have to write a research paper on something futuristic - i.e., flying cars. I suggested to my daughter that she research the myriad ways American Democracy is now being threatened. She sent an e-mail to the teacher asking if that topic was acceptable.

Response: Only if you stick to "mainstream" sources - no "anti-government" websites. Talk about Catch 22. The so-called "mainstream" media IS one of the many ways our Democracy is being threatened. There's no way to write a report based on the kind of corporate "news" sources the teacher thinks are the only ones acceptable.

Report topic: Flying Cars...Will you own one?
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. I wonder what the teacher would consider "anti-government"..
for instance, I wonder if something like "media matters" would be acceptable?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. No. She'd only accept corporate media sources.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #50
120. Try these articles about signing statements.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #120
122. Thanks. Much appreciated.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. the teacher's response is one of the ways democracy is being threatened.
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 09:35 AM by IMModerate
The report should go on to give examples of what you are saying. That is, cite those main stream examples and point out their lies. Maybe throw in an example of the type of reporting the teacher excluded.

On edit: are Krugman and Frank Rich mainstream? How about Rolling Stone?

--IMM
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
103. Here are three good articles about Chimpy's signing statements.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
119. Sorry, I responded to the wrong post.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Mainstream sources here; can she still do her original topic?
These are all mainstream (some are reprints on different sites), and the first one below is a good starting point.

More Surveillance Equals Less Liberty
The Hill
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3255

The Wiretap This Time
NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/opinion/29terkel.html?_r=1&em&ex=1193889600&en=36cc9fb19a64e856&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin

Is the Pentagon spying on Americans?
NBC News
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/

Feingold Again Tries to Block Patriot Act
Associated Press
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17760

ACLU Fact Sheet on the “Police America Act"
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/31203res20070807.html

Letting Guard Down Would Allow Bush to Take Away Rights and Liberties for Good
The Detroit News
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5716

Hamdi and Habeas Corpus
The Wall Street Journal
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2632

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
52. Thanks, Will. Those are good, although the
teacher vetoed the ACLU when my daughter submitted a list of sources she wanted to use. She had garnered a couple of articles off the ACLU's website, but apparently those are too "out of the mainstream" for the teacher. (Teacher's husband, by the way, is a big wheel at an evangelical college, so I think I know where she's coming from.)

I realize the corporate press has done some limited factual reporting of some of the dismantling of the Constitution under the Bush regime. Not nearly enough, though.

My daughter has until Monday to finalize her topic and may still go with her original thought. Thanks for your very helpful input.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
101. Once a teacher, always a teacher...sometimes.
;)
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #52
105. Maybe you should tell the ACLU about the teacher?
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 12:46 AM by JDPriestly
I would see if I couldn't talk to someone. The First Amendment rights of children in schools may be severely restricted, but I'm not sure that a teacher can nix a source because it is the ACLU. That seems really extreme to me. The ACLU is a legitimate organization. It is mostly run by lawyers who are licensed members of state bar associations and who practice in the courts of the U.S. The lawyers at ACLU are a better source of information than the mainstream media any day. What state are you in? It must be pretty backward.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #105
123. I'm in CA - Southern California - Ventura County.
I can assure you, it is in many ways very backward. You should see the dickwad this area keeps re-electing to Congress. His name is Elton Gallegly. A rubber stamp labelled "I support the chimp and cheney 100%" would be just as effective and lots cheaper. Disgusting.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Mainstream is subjective
For the mentally infirm, Fox News is mainstream. In fact, a piece written with Fox as the source would make for great satire.
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
97. What about books?
What about John Dean's books? He sure covers the damage to democracy in detail and with lots of sources to back him up---from mainstream sources and legal sources.

Broken Government has detailed notes including citations to a wide range of "mainstream" sources.

John Dean is the first person coming to mind right now, but there have been a raft of solidly researched books your daughter can use.

btw, the teacher is a wimp.
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
108. Oh the irony ...
I would of suggested to your daughter write a report on how her teachers suggestion parallels Fahrenheit 451
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #108
125. Isn't that the truth. She's teaching the book, but she doesn't "get"
it. Pathetic.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. Why isn't there a massive effort to get Russert off the air for his lack
of good judgment?
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Maybe "we" should start one?
I'm so sick of his bullshit.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. Identity politics is DEAD
The liberals scoffed when the so-called postmodernists launched this critique in the late-80's through the 90's. "Apolitical!" the liberals yelled. "What about the poor! What about the oppressed!" But the postmodernists were right. The identity politics that served the left so well through the 20th century struggles is a joke now, and identity - race, class, gender - is simply used as a trope, deployed for any purpose whatsoever. So we have our reactionary politics wrapped up in Tim Russert's class authenticity, or Condaleeza Rice's race authenticity, and any attempt to critique these is slammed as "broad brush," or some other such nonsense.

Why? Because we bought into the myth of individuality pushed by Reagan. Yes. I would estimate that 75% of DUers, people on this very board, have a Reaganesque belief about the relation of the individual to the group, the social. So Timmeh can be the authentic "working class" guy, because that identity now attaches to the PERSON, the individual, rather than functioning as a social category that applies to a structural position. We don't like "structural positions," supposedly, because they relate to groups of which the individual is merely a part. And we value the individual, blah blah blah. This adherence to Reaganesque conservative philosophy - even among the hardest core of the Democratic Party - has cost us very dearly. In the first place, it is impossible to launch a class critique or a race critique because when we do so, we are immediately hit with supposed "counter-examples," individuals who "retain the identity" while not fitting the category. Of course, these individual do NOT "retain the identity" as a social category; they only retain it under the illusion that it attaches to the individual, a Reaganesque parlor trick that we've all taken for the real. In the second place, we get clowns like Tim Russert justifying the most reactionary political absurdities on the basis of his individual authenticity, despite the fact that he hasn't been "working class" in any structural sense of the term for many many years. "Working class" is a structural position, not a personal identity. Ditto race. And yes, even gender and sexuality. The moment we gave up that basic premise (the moment we abandoned socialism, really), we gave up the game. And until we learn to think in those terms again, we will always be chasing these stupid identity games.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
87. That is a very good analysis...
no...
it's an excellent analysis.
Well done. I mean that.
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Tuesday_Morning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you!
One of my favorite tidbits:

Any questions about his being too close to the establishment are met with "Blue-collar! Buffalo!", brandished like a cross before the vampire of accountability.

:rofl:
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
23. Spot on article
I do wish Kucinich had pointed out just what Timmay was trying to do when he asked him the UFO question. Instead of trying to joke it away or answer it like it was a real question, Dennis should have said 'So this is your attempt to characterize me as unbalanced simply because I pointed out the obvious, that our President is mentally unfit to be our leader, and that he and Dick Cheney have broken the law over and over, subverted the Constitution of the US, and committed war crimes for profit. Is this your way, Mr. Russert of undermining my very valid calls for impeachment, because it certainly seems as if that's what that question was designed to accomplish.'

I would have loved that answer and it would have had to have been aired.

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blayne Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
68. That's exactly what I was thinking.
A perfect example of Russert's tactics.

Did anyone see the episode when Russert was promoting
his book or his years of service or something, and he
had someone come on his own show to interview him?

Can you imagine anyone else in the business doing something
like that?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. "he squeaks going into a turn"- can someone explain that to me? how being full of poo
would cause squeaking into a turn?

Sign me 'Baffled in NY'
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. One shouldn't explain humor, BUT...
two things: 1) Russert's so full of the doo-doo that his straining colon squeaks like a balloon when he moves. 2) It's a shit-a-brick funny non-sequiter.

I hope that helps. :-)
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
29. Suuuweeeet!
Tuesday's "debate" was not yet over when I fired off an email to the powers that be at MSNBC. Not that they'll give a damn, but there's no way I could just sit there fuming, wishing that somebody would do something to these creeps. It is apparently of little consequence that Russert and Williams behaved as though they had been thoroughly trained by the sewage masters at Fox. Were it not for Olbermann, my television would have wound up in the dumpster on Tuesday night.
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
30. kick...
...to read later. Thanks.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
32. Recommended & shit...
:rofl: Mostly for this: "Russert is so full of shit, he squeaks going into a turn; you can smell him coming two counties away"

Are you sure you're not from South Chicago?
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
35. Russert tried to single-handedly force the U.S. into war with Iran by trying to
make Dems issue a pledge that they would not let Iran develop a nuclear bomb if they are elected. Thankfully, Clinton and the others had the sense to avoid the absolutist position Russert tried to force on them.

______

Russert: I want to ask each of you the same question.

Senator Clinton, would you pledge to the American people that Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb while you are president?

Clinton: I intend to do everything I can to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb.

Russert: But you won't pledge?

Clinton: I am pledging I will do everything I can to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb.

Russert: But, they may.

Clinton: Well, you know, Tim, you asked me if I would pledge, and I have pledged that I will do everything I can to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb.

(Laughter)

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528787/page/5/

------

This is much worse than the usual inanity of these so-called debates. Here's Brian Williams with a brilliant, probing question:

Williams: Senator Dodd, you gave an interview to our local NBC station here today, alluding to problems with Senator Clinton's national electability. What is the point you want to make on that score?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21528787/page/10/

Translated: Senator Dodd, go ahead and take a couple of minutes to rant about Senator Clinton.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kicked and recommended.
Russert would be more valuable to the nation if he were baked and stuffed with butter and sour cream.


Thanks for the thread, WilliamPitt.:thumbsup:
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
37. Timmy needs collagen injections
in his lips...he'll look prettier and also be better able to kiss the ass of The Shooter.

I can't stand him. We should all be writing NBC about Timmy and his lack of journalistic integrity.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
38. Is this a religious litmus test for Democrats by the media?
Does this mean a viable candidate must put his/her Christian beliefs on public display in order to be electable? I can never watch Tim Russert again---who the Hell does he think he is?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
39. Russert is a cretinous rodent
We need a media purge if America is to be restored.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
40. I no longer watch Tim russert with a small r
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 12:12 PM by ooglymoogly
lest I puke all over the furniture. His dumb as mud gotcha questions to Democrats and his slobbering, fawning worship of pugs is too much to take; But then that is why the corporate media keep propping him up. He does their dirtiest work for them, then all they have to do is keep repeating what russert said as something profound into the highest form of propaganda. russert is the GOP's best hit man with the biggest platform. Just forget that he is dumb as mud.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
42. Next time, ask Russert if he beats up his wife.
n/t
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
43. Tim "I love my dad" Russert. Moral Moron.
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. You say asshead, I say dickhead.
Good article there. I also wish one of the candidates would take that stand.
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
45. Only a Republican could like him
Tim is the worst journalist in the news net work and next is hard head oops hard ball tweety bird. Every statement they makes is to try and make the Republican Party look better.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. So you are saying that two NBC guys are worse than all the crap over at Fox?
Doubtful
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
46. K & R
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rtassi Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
47. The article is good ... but...
I wish you could get the rant printed ...that kicked the **ever-lovin'** shit out of Russert! IMO
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Did you see Colbert vs. Russert on Meet the Press?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Russert is a money grubbin' Asshole.

“You know, Tim, you used to be such a rabid Democrat when you worked for Pat Moynihan,” said the executive. “But now that you’ve gotten a glimpse of who’s handing out the money in this business, you’ve become quite the Jaycee. Were you wrong about everything you used to believe so strongly?”

“I still believe,” Russert said, leaning across the table. “I believe in everything I ever did. But I also know that I never would have become moderator on Meet The Press if my employers were uncomfortable with me. And, given the amount of money at stake, millions of dollars, I don’t blame them. This is business.”

The executive agreed. “But are you concerned about losing yourself? You know, selling out?”

Russert pounded the table. “Integrity is for paupers!”
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. C'mon, Will. Tell us how you *really* feel.
Hee, great rant! Great article, too. Thanks for linking that.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. Uh...
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:04 PM by datavg
...Tim Russert is a mainstream Democrat who worked for Pat Moynihan, worked his way through law school and grew up in a Polish neighorhood in Buffalo where his father worked as a garbageman to put him through Jesuit high school. He's told many stories about being picked up and thrown against a locker by Father such-and-such for mouthing off. I guess it was a rough place in those days.

When Moynihan offered him the job in Washington, he said he didn't have what it took to compete there because all those "rich kids" had been to Harvard and Yale and the prep schools and they were just better. Moynihan said nuts to that...people from the Rust Belt had common sense. Nothing's changed. I'm originally from the Rust Belt and I know exactly what he was saying.

Attacking Tim Russert won't get you anywhere, just like attacking Chris Matthews won't get you anywhere. At least, it won't get you anywhere good. Those two guys have a lot in common, although I'd like to see Russert lose some weight. He was getting a little portly last time I saw him. That's probably why his knee gave out.

Matthews needs to lay off the sauce. I know he's Irish Catholic and all but...sheesh! One would think he'd have gotten the message when he turned up with diabetes. I mean, what does he think booze is? His wife must be a saint for putting up with it.

When Tim Russert made Vice President of NBC News, he offered to buy his father a brand new Mercedes. His dad wanted...get this...a Crown Victoria instead. Why? Because it had a full size trunk!

Given the kind of people Tim's descended from, I'll take him anytime over the San Francisco left.

Anytime. And twice on Sunday.

He grew up the hard way. And his viewers know it.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Nice lecture. I'm sure the "San Francisco left" gives you the willies.
Timbo's just the most awesomest guy ever and your post affirms his wonderfulness!

:hi: MKJ
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. There's Another Story...
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 05:55 PM by datavg
...I have to tell, that's a lot like my previous one.

Bill Maher had Biden on his show (I think) about a year ago, when the conversation for some reason turned to the war. Biden told a story where his mother was praying the rosary for her brother, whose remains were never found in the South Pacific. One of his staffers mentioned that he thought her prayers were "quaint", to which Biden replied that if he weren't a US Senator, he'd "rip the goddamn Adam's Apple" out of that guy's throat. He actually said this on national television. When I heard it, the hair on the back of my neck stood straight up. My wife reacted the same way.

THAT should be the future of the party. THAT is what we need, and we need buckets of it.

Bill Clinton had some of this. Hillary? Don't know. She's too scripted and that might ultimately do her in.

Ah, but do you know who has this in spades? John Edwards. He could write the book.

Kucinich has it, too but people won't vote for someone who looks like Spock from Star Trek. Sad but true.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Uh Huh.
OK.

MKJ
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. "San Francisco left"? What the hell?
It's as if you are saying folks from the Bay Area aren't genuine. Is that what you mean here, and if it is, I find that quite offensive. And I'm a Texan.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. What I'm Saying...
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:26 PM by datavg
...is that, having worked in the Bay Area off and on, I can tell you there's a bubble environment that exists there which makes it significantly economically and politically different from the rest of the country.

I've lived and worked in Texas, too. I lived in Plano for eight years, and even it doesn't have the same sense of isolation from reality that the Bay Area does.

I love San Francisco. I do...but it's very different from everywhere else I've ever been or worked or lived. Most of the food is a like a drug. I gained ten pounds when I worked there on a project. It's soooooo good. There's a pastry shop in Danville that I'm not allowed to visit without a guard. It's very upscale and very high income (with equally high expectations for education) but at the same time there's a tolerance for taxation and regulation that you won't match anywhere else in the country except for possibly the New England states and maybe not even then.

Yes, the Bay Area has a high living standard. No doubt, and that's because many people there want it that way and simply have the money to pay for it. Fine - but when people like Dennis Kucinich cite Northern California and the Bay Area as a benchmark, the first question I ask is where will the money come from? People in the Bay Area pay through the nose for gasoline, food, real estate (ridiculously), education...whatever the hell it is, everything's cranked up and they put up with it. Great...but you can't sell that way of life or way of governing or anything else they do to the country as a whole. Nobody else has their wealth! NOBODY!

This is the mistake Jennifer Granholm is making with Michigan right now. The auto industry is in the tank and what does she do? She raises taxes. And where is she originally from? She's originally Canadian but she spent quite a few years in (surprise, surprise) Northern California! She's even a Berkeley grad...but what she really is, is another liberal who doesn't seem to understand she's setting up Dick DeVos to become Michigan's next governor. When this is all over, Detroiters will be in the streets with torches and pitchforks!

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Flight of ideas, anyone?
MKJ
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. You Can Make...
...fun all you want. If I didn't have some level of validation for what I say, I wouldn't stick my neck out. I'm not that stupid.

I KNOW I'm right. I've been in the corporate IT world for years and years. I also basically grew up in the real estate and insurance business. This is really arrogant to say, but I had a college education of a certain kind before I went to college. It was just how I grew up...and those experiences haven't hurt me at all.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
94. Follow the tropes...
1. association of progressive ideas with lack of realism.
2. anti intellectualism manifesting as superiority of experiential over theoretical.
3. contempt for academia, particularly educators.
4. association with SF as a place of seductive things that are bad for you.

All delivered in a tone of dismissive contempt.
It is not so much a flight of ideas, as a catalog of talking points.
It's a bit like OxyRush in a donkey suit.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #94
116. Hah!
That was a good one.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #94
117. rp, this spot on analysis fits not only this
poster, but many others who abruptly appear into our little corner of world.

Follow the tropes, indeed! Excellent. :-) MKJ
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Boy you may know San Francisco but you don't know shit about Michigan
It was the fault of the Republicans in the Michigan legislature who did away with one form of Michigan business tax----did not replace it----and then lost needed revenue in Michigan. So...cuts have been made and a service tax has been applied to some services in Michigan. Not that the choices the legislature made make sense. That would be too much to ask.

Granholm did not raise Michigan taxes. The republicans did. As far as Dick DeVos goes...he got royally dumped. And he will again if he runs which I doubt.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
86. You Need To Read...
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 07:42 PM by datavg
...Daniel Howes' blog on the Detroit News web site. Post after post after post is "dump Granholm" or some such thing.

Maybe they're wrongly making Granholm the repository of all their troubles. Maybe they're not.

In either case, perception is reality and she's certainly made some wrong moves here...given Michigan's present severely degraded fiscal health.

Now, if you want to see the right way to handle a bad situation, look at Strickland in Ohio. I have some bias here because I'm a former Ohioan but he's actually making significant headway in fixing Ohio's broken public university system and he's got important people from both sides of the aisle working with him. If he keeps it up, someone's gonna approach him about a presidential run next time around...

...but then again, he's a pro-gun, pro-life Democrat. That's how he got elected in a Republican state like Ohio.

And they love him. And he'll get a second term if he wants it. Why wouldn't he?

And that's what I'm trying to say. People like him are the future of the party.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. The problem isn't the Governor, its an archaic big money CEO auto industry
and a lousy, lousy legislature. There's nothing wrong with our universities, our environment has been steadily improving and unlike Ohio, we still put money into public schools. Our welfare to work program has been very successful and been a model for other states--including Ohio.

And the Detroit News is a rag.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #93
127. U of M...
...is a top notch school. Even Ann Coulter went there, the witch. She's not even cute. Jesus, Ann...eat something once in awhile. If you want some Cinnabons I'll buy 'em for ya.

General Motors and Ford have the capability to put Toyota and Honda out of business, if they really wanted to. But they don't. And that's the problem.

Yes, the auto industry's problems are about culture but not in the way you might imagine. I think it's all about the stiffness of the local popular culture and the unions and all that class hatred going back a hundred years there. I see it every time I go home. I never saw it when I lived in Dallas, and California is so open that I don't think it ever existed here. Sometimes I think California is a little too open because I find myself wondering if there shouldn't be at least a few standards once in awhile.

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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #127
129. The unions have done a lot to SAVE the auto indus. in Michigan too.
But I agree, GM and the others could have put the smaller auto industries down had they wanted to. Now I'm not so sure. By "stiffness" I assume you mean lack of innovation. Tis' true that the so called industrial states have not picked up on the need for innovation IN the US. But that begs the question, if the governments role is not to support unrestricted welfare for people, why are they in the business of supporting unrestricted corporate welfare for corporations?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. DLC = PNAC
SIEG HEIL!



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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #59
78. It's Interesting...
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:58 PM by datavg
...that everytime the left wingers see something they don't like or can't fight or otherwise don't know how to interpret, they call it Nazism. It's always emotion, emotion...as though I'm supposed to be afraid of something and cower in my corner. Every single time. It never changes. It's as though there's a manual somewhere that's been distributed. I saw it in college. My wife saw it in graduate school...and it's also eerily constant that many of the people responsible for that crap end up being the same ones who don't do as well financially or careerwise when they leave the controlled world of academia. These are not people you're going to see buying the 2400 sq ft house in the Los Angeles or Dallas or Atlanta suburbs, with two Toyotas in the driveway. It can happen and does happen...but it sure as hell doesn't happen every time.

I liken it to some of the studies done where people who were "popular" (whatever the hell that means) in high school are tracked into their college and career earning years...and a surprising number of the "most likely to succeed" crowd are those who didn't amount to shit after leaving school. Why? A lot of them don't have street smarts...and a fairly large number of those people have degrees in Education. I'm not saying everyone who teaches school is a dullard but I will say there are damn few schoolteachers from my personal background who I would trust to share the cockpit of a Cessna with me. They don't think quickly enough. They don't have that sharp edge...and that same skill tends to be a prerequisite for success. I think it was always that way.

Lee Iacocca used to say that you have to know the difference between a dip of Vanilla ice cream and dip of horseshit. If you don't know that difference (and a lot of guys don't...his words directly from his book) then it's too bad because you can never really make it. I can't personally say it any better than he did. I had this same conversation with my instructor the other night as we were putting his 182 in the hangar, and he said...yeah, it's true. This is a guy who's 65 years old with 4000 hours of flying time plus a Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry!
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. You seem to be somewhat preoccupied with status.
What's the relationship between financial success and someone's understanding of history and politics? And how does that tie into sharing a cockpit with you, and trust? Although you apparently believe someone is a good person if they grew up on a diet of hard work and a Jesuit education, last time I checked the Jesuits were dishing out a few scoops of horseshit themselves.

Yes the Nazi label is overworked, but don't let that fact blind you to the similarities between what's happening today and what was happening in Germany in the 30's. What makes you so confident fascism has been put to bed forever? Are people purer now than they were a scant 70 years ago?

Help me here.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Sure...
...I'm game. No problem.

My initial reaction is why do those on the left immediately (almost reflexively, in my personal perception) assume that anyone who doesn't agree with them is a Nazi? I'm here to tell ya that it ain't true.

Remember, I lived in Texas for years. Now, THAT'S borderline fascism. Even southerners think Texans are all nuts...and a lot of them are but a fair number of them are very wealthy and very powerful people. Texas has a legislature that meets for six months every two years. The land developers and insurance salesmen and a few lawyers and doctors who have others to tend to their practices go to Austin for those six months, take care of their buddies, close up shop and return to their lives. Poor people don't have a fucking chance in Texas but they're not supposed to. That's not how the place works. I was an upper middle class guy with our income but anyone with even a cursory education in government and economics can see what they do there.

What is semi-fascistic is the way Corporate America continues to move jobs and our professional population (and new university graduates) to Right To Work states from places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and upstate New York. Kevin Phillips is a goddamn registered Republican and even he thinks cream skimming (that's what it's called) is a ploy to cement in place corporatist economic and political power. This has been going on in earnest since the Nixon administration...and that's precisely when the economies of places such as NE Ohio and western Pennsylvania started to turn to shit.

No offense intended, but why the fuck do you think I waste my time posting here? Someone has to talk about this.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. You will get that kind of response around here if you sport a DLC avatar
because the DLC is beholden to the same people you're criticizing (the DLC tried to destroy Howard Dean because he was addressing the very topics you're pissed about). They raise a lot of money; they got Clinton the First elected and they'll likely put Clinton the Second in the WH too.

Don't you think all that money has strings? That corporate donors expect a return on their "investment"?
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Yeah, Yeah...
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 08:13 PM by datavg
...I hear you. Loud and clear, my man.

But, what's the alternative? Hillary got waylaid when she wanted to do single payer or some flavor of it.

Don't tell me it's Dennis Kucinich. I grew up watching Cleveland television, remember? I know who characters like Superhost and Barnaby and Big Chuck and Houlihan were. Dick Goddard is eighty and is still doing the weather at WJW. I would imagine he almost owns the place by now. He's worked there since before I was born. He's outlasted everyone who ever worked for the station. They've only been on the air since 1949.

I remember Dennis the boy mayor watching Cleveland go into bankruptcy when he wanted to make a statement about Muny Light...and ruined Cleveland's reputation as a place in which to do business. NE Ohio never truly recovered from the recession of 1980-1982. There was a NE Ohio before and after that era...and the two are very different.

Reagan fucked the Rust Belt square in the ass. See the movie Roger and Me, where there's footage of Reagan interviewing with someone from the Flint media and telling people to go get jobs in Texas and Florida. Most Ohioans loved Reagan, and Ronnie was good for the south and good for southern California but very, very bad for NE Ohio and most of Pennsylvania. (Columbus did okay under Reagan, but it's a white collar town.) I could take you to little hamlets like Reedsville and Lewistown, Pennsylvania where the economic rot has been going on for so long and the deleterious effects of the various trade agreements have been so significant that people who grew up there don't even recognize the place. I'm half Pennsylvania redneck (proudly so) and what's happened to that region makes me want to lose my lunch. I don't cry over it. I wouldn't give the bastards who made it that way the satisfaction.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #88
99. Hillary Clinton " wanted to do single payer " ??? WTF?!!
the whole problem with Hillary-Care was that she was WAAAAY too in-bed with the insurance companies. It was not single-payer at all.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
Kucinich did not ruin Cleveland.
And Timmeh is a MediaWhore EXTRAORDINAIRE - no bout adoubt it. You're totally missing the point here.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. Much of what you say in this thread does make sense, but that DLC...
avatar does not jibe with those insights.
Nor does your defense of Russert.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. Okay...
...Grizzly, what avatar seems appropos?

(listening)
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Almost anything would be better; there are very few fans of the DLC here...
and rightly so.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Will Marshall, the co-founder of the DLC, is a PNAC signatory.
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295

So, how do you feel supporting the premiere neocon fascist organisation populated by the very same yellow chickenhawks who got us into the Iraq clusterfuck?

Btw, save the macho "I can fly a plane" shit for someone who cannot.

"... altitude...altitude...altitude..." :nuke:

Your non-sequitur about academics and teachers is quite telling. Reminds me of David Horowitz.


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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #83
115. I didn't know Will Marshall was a neocon.
Thanks, Swamp Rat.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #83
118. Well...
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 08:48 AM by datavg
...let's just agree to disagree.

Pitch, power, trim...

...and quit playing with that damn wheel all the time!

(snicker)
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #118
130. Ok
I can do that. :D

Though, I think you should give some thought to this DLC organisation. They are really bad news. They support the necon agenda of reshaping the Middle East by any means necessary, as well as privatisation of our government, military, etc. I often fling the word "nazi" or "fascist" about for shock value (to shake up the slumbering minds), but they are corporatists in the Musolini sense. My art is a reaction to the overall reaction by my friends, colleagues and fellow Americans, here and elsewhere, to the current state of the Union.

peace

:hi:



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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #78
113. I know a couple of guys who have pilot licenses
Both of them are dickheads.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #113
132. Yeah...
...and by your definition, I probably am too.

I personally could not care less.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. Wow...a Crown Vic over a Mercedes...now there's salt o' the earth!
Who gives a crap what kind of car his father drives. Russert is a pisspoor journalist, no matter where he came from, who wouldn't know impartiality if it bit his Oldsmobile-sized ass.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. You Don't...
...have a clue. It isn't a statement about whether Russert is a lapdog for the hard left or not, or even what kind of journalist he is. It's about his character and father's character and what he's really about on the inside.

This is a Rust Belt thing. I understand it because I grew up there, with the persistent threat of layoffs in industry and watching my friends' fathers constantly sweat both the white collar and blue collar downsizings when Goodyear and Goodrich and General Tire started moving operations to Right To Work states.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Good character is not only bred in the rust belt anymore than lousy character
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:43 PM by MichiganVote
is only found in other areas. Russert is all about Russert. Take the blinders off. All of these showmen could just as easily put up a revival tent in your town. Instead they do TV. They make money by appealing to the 4th or 5th grade mentality of the average TV viewer.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. Well...
...this voter doesn't have an elementary school mentality. When I look at Russert, I see a guy who grew up eating pierogies (which is probably why he has a weight problem, because he likes the old fashioned comfort food from back home, as I do) and is immeasurably proud of what he's been able to do and the guy who made a lot of it possible. You should see him talk about the Buffalo Bills. He lights up like a torch. Santa should rent out that nose and those cheeks for Christmas Eve.

I see in him the same thing that I see from someone who grew up in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Akron (myself, in the suburbs) or Chicago. Shit, I'd love to go home but they don't have the kinds of jobs there that my wife and I would require to support ourselves.

This is why I post here and this is why I say what I say in my posts.

I'm angry. More so than you could possibly understand.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #81
95. Yeah well here's the thing...nobody I know who touts the salt of the earth thing
or the rust belt thing----ever wants to go back to it. Think on that.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #95
124. I Find Myself...
...trolling YouTube to look at clips of old local television shows from back home. Cleveland was known for its local programming one upon a time and a lot of top Hollywood talent got started there. Tim Conway is still around. Ernie Anderson is dead thanks to a cigarette habit but he was the voice of ABC for many years and where did he cut his teeth? At WJW in Cleveland.

I miss what the Rust Belt was. Sue me if you don't like it.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. If hard work tempered his soul and made him a good man
he wouldn't shill for an administration which is grinding the middle class into the dirt.

Is he an abominable hypocrite, or stupid? After agonizing through parts of his book, IMO it's a little of both.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. I'm Gonna...
...hold short of saying he's a shill. People said Russert was a shill for Bill Clinton, and if that was true why did he pull his weapon on Hillary?

Maybe he doesn't like the idea of Hillary getting a pass on the nomination process. Bill had paid his dues all those years ago down in Arkansas. He'd actually run something. Hillary never has and I suspect that bothers Russert, given the economic and political waters we're presently sailing in.

Remember that Moynihan was a old time Irish Catholic academic from New York. He grew up there in the old neighborhood. He doesn't strike me as the type who would pick a rotten egg from the basket.

I'm sure there's more to this than we know.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #79
112. Press the Meat was President Cheney's favorite format where he could control the message.
Edited on Sat Nov-03-07 05:34 AM by Lasher
From testimony at the Scooter Libby trial on 01/36/07:

Flashed on the courtroom computer screens were her notes from 2004 about how Cheney could respond to allegations that the Bush administration had played fast and loose with evidence of Iraq's nuclear ambitions. Option 1: "MTP-VP," she wrote, then listed the pros and cons of a vice presidential appearance on the Sunday show. Under "pro," she wrote: "control message."

"I suggested we put the vice president on 'Meet the Press,' which was a tactic we often used."

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/26/russert-played-for-a-fool/


Russet appeared on Hannity & Colmes in June and repeated Faux Noise boss Roger Ailes' talking points on the Democratic Party’s refusal to debate on the propaganda network.

Russert: It’s a TV show. If you can’t handle TV questions, how you gonna stand up to Iran and North Korea and the rest of the world?

Ailes: The candidates that can’t face Fox, can’t face al-Qaeda. And that’s what’s coming.


And while on the show he agreed with this statement by Hannity:

Hannity: I think the Democrats have gone further left than anybody would have anticipated. I think these bloggers have really gotten to them. I think they’re really positioning themselves that they’re gonna have a very difficult time moving center. Do you see that?

Russert: Absolutely…

http://www.crooksandliars.com/category/nbc/meet-the-presstim-russert/page/2/


Complicity for access. Going along to get along. If that's not being a shill it's hard to imagine just what one would look like.
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datavg Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #112
126. Well, Okay...
...whatever.

I still like Tim. I like him a lot. I like where he came from and what he did for his father. He and Tom Brokaw understand the World War II generation and the sacrifices it made for this nation.

So I'm not a leftie. There are more people like me than there are people like you. Don't forget it.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #126
128. I also like where Russet came from, but it ain't where you been.
It's where you're at.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
102. Tim?
:hi:

:eyes:

Guess what? Growing up "the hard way" does not inoculate someone from becoming an insufferable, shameless hack assbag.

Guess what? Growing up "the hard way" does not inoculate someone from becoming part of the mainstream news media distortion machine.

Guess what? Fuck Tim Russert. Fuck J.T. Losman, too, because Buffalo always has to be part of this topic...but then again, Losman is already fucked, so never mind that part.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #53
110. Tweety: Junior sometimes "glimmers" with "sunny nobility"
Did you catch that one? Junior "glimmers" with a "kind of sunny nobility" according to him. Or maybe you were watching Screwball during the 'mission accomplished' stunt?

"What's the importance of the president's amazing display of leadership tonight?"

"And that's the president looking very much like a jet, you know, a high-flying jet star."

"He won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics."

"He looks great in a military uniform. He looks great in that cowboy costume he wears when he goes West."

"The president there - look at this guy! We're watching him. He looks like he flew the plane."


This is quite a contrast with the seething hatred he harbors for the Clintons because didn't get the job as press secretary during Bill's administration. Stephanie Miller was right.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
57. Ever see his interviews with Limbaugh? Couldn't kiss his draft-dodging ass enough.
I will never forget (or forgive) Russert for the hero-worship interviews he did with America's uneducated windbag, Rush Limbaugh. Calling the questions "softball" doesn't even come close to the smoochfest he had with that ignorant hate-filled chickenhawk. I will never - never - take Russert seriously after seeing those interviews. Made Katie Couric's horrific interviews look like she was Edward R. Murrow.

Go to hell, Tim.

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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
60. Well put.
Dean got a yell. Kucinich got a ufo. Dukakis got a helmet.

It's how they operate. They have nothing else.

What I don't get is why we've been so slow to catch on. I was quite shocked that Kucinich blessed Jabba the Hut Russert with an answer.

We're bigger than that! We're bigger than that! Let's remember it.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
62. Like the KKK hiding behind freedom of assembly
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:23 PM by realpolitik
Like the way corporate citizenship distorts the value of citizenship by creating a class of citizen devoid of the responsibilities incumbent in human citizens, media whores devalue the first amendment by using its protections to shield treason, and using its prerogatives to reduce the issues to insignificance and elevate inane trivia to unwarranted importance.

We cannot punish them for the damage they do in a way that equals the harm, but I hope that someone finds a way to take away the money and their sense of importance. In the end, that pain hurts them worse, because it is obvious that these pseudo journalists have no sense of duty to the constitution that shields them, or the citizens who depend on them to ask meaningful questions and illuminate the critical issues that affect their lives.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
64. Bullshit isn't good enough for Russky. Has to be Buffalo bullshit.
Edited on Fri Nov-02-07 06:27 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
Maybe, when he tries to peddle Buffalo again, people will ask him, "More Buffalo bullshit, Timothy? Give it a rest."
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
67. Thank you, Paul Waldman!~
This is what I've been sayin', too..russert is tragic joke of a moderator and when are the Dems going to say, "Enough!"?

Thanks, Will Pitt, for the article and thank the Universe for publications like The American Prospect!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
70. It would be lovely if we ALL sent him this IP!
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
73. Thanks for posting this.
Russert turns my stomach. He's a fake.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
77. "the query designed to embarrass rather than enlighten"
RIGHT ON ... K&R !!!!
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
84. french president
Isnt that what the french president just did? He was asked about his wife and he got up and left or something to that effect? bully for him - the questions our so called jornalists ask are so infantile it makes me ill.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
96. Timmeh - MediaWhore of the Year 2003, and runner-up in 2002.
And it ain't for nothin' that he won those titles - they were VERY well-earned.

GAH, he sucks.

And I STILL miss The Horse...
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
98. I used to have respect for Russert.
Ever since I saw him rambling on about President Clinton some years ago explaining this breaking news about China secrets or something like that. He was going on and on and you can hear the glee in his voice. This was a serious topic but he had such a happy face talking about it. He was so excited he looked orgasmic. I will never forget that. I kept waiting for this to be the end of President Clinton but nothing happened. Tim Russert looked like a fool that night.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
100. Russert is far worse than what you accuse him of.
He KNEW Scotty McClellan was lying when he said Libby and Rove were not involved in the outing.

He KNEW that this information would influence the outcome of the reelection campaign that was in progress.

He KNEW that by remaining silent about Rove and Libby he could trick the public into believing the lie.

He KNEW that he was being a treasonous bastard when he made his decision to become a lying sack of shit for this cabal.

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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
106. Excellent...Release the hounds. Russert is another Cheney lap dog.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
107. but taterhead has such good hair!
sacraligiosity
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
109. K&R
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Beerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
111. How about if Russert interviewed you?
I bet you'd change your attitude on a dime.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-04-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #111
133. Bet me.
You'll lose.

You might be that venal. I'm not. Name the sum if you doubt that...just in case. ;)
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gleeindc Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
114. Russert and Candidates on Religion
This passes for good journalism? I could see asking about religion and politics: division of church and state, using one's beliefs to form and support one's political positions, etc. -- but favorite verse? First and foremost, it limits a beliefs response to Judeo-Christian text. However, even if limited to the Bible, if ever questioned again, I would hope that a candidate would answer, Matthew 6: 5-7: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites : for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men."
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-03-07 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
131. Tim Russert and way too fat journalist ??? ...he's more like a urinalist pissing all over candidates
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