Hoyer-led Dems to Cave Again on FISA

[kpete]

Hoyer-led Dems to Cave Again on FISA
by: Matt Stoller
Thu Oct 04, 2007 at 18:29:20 PM EDT

I just got word from the ACLU that a new and bad FISA bill is about to be unveiled tomorrow at 1:30pm by Steny Hoyer in a press-only briefing. Telecom immunity is not in the bill, but the Senate is pressing hard for that to be included.

The dynamic in the House is really odd. Hoyer and Emanuel seem to be pushing for a FISA capitulation to 'protect the freshmen', even though the freshmen understand their constituents don't want a FISA capitulation. No one will go on the record on any of this, and Emanuel and Hoyer aren't voting for the capitulation, only orchestrating its passage.

This is not a surprise, though it is amusing that Pelosi's promises to 'fix' the temporary FISA bill passed in August are as worthless as they appeared at the time.

What's weird is that no one wants this capitulation except Hoyer and Emanuel. The Bush Dogs are going to vote for it, since that's what they would do, but they would vote for a better bill. The freshmen don't feel politically threatened by a better bill, and know that standing up to Bush is popular. It's like the House is operating on conservative autopilot.

more at:
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=E6D4D8670FE395BB4FAEFBE8037D55F8?diaryId=1736

[w4rma]

1. This is why I opposed both Hoyer's and Emanuel's positions in leadership. Both big DLCers. (nt)

[scarletwoman]

2. DLC = Trojan Horse. They are the corporatist Borg, busily assimilating the Democratic Party.

"Resistance is futile."

The DLC is a parasite, sucking away the last vestiges of the "Party of the People" that the Democrats once seemed to be.

sw

[ShortnFiery]

3. To add insult to injury, if HRC wins the WH, the DLC will OWN The Democratic Party.

:scared: :puke:

Just when you think our Democratic Party couldn't *triangulate* any more to the political right, some Corporatist DLCer makes it so. :(

[scarletwoman]

5. If HRC wins the WH, it will be without my help. I will not vote for her, period. (nt)

[mod mom]

11. Me too-I'll write-in AL GORE. I want no responsibility for placing a DLCer in office.

Neocons w a gentler voice. NEWBIES: Research Project for a New American Century (PNAC) ties with the DLC before evening thinking of supporting her.

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. Al Gore? He is a founding member of the DLC

Does anyone remember who argued for the adoption of NAFTA, debating Ross Perot on the subject on Larry King?

[Nevernose]

21. To a lot of us, NAFTA looked good on paper

I, for one, was sold American.

In retrospect, a bad move. But 15 years ago it looked pretty good to me. I'm far more interested in where Al Gore stands on it NOW.

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. Has he ever indicated that he wants to repeal NAFTA?

:shrug:

[PassingFair]

29. Al Gore left the DLC, with FANFARE in 2000. Things change. n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. Are you sure that you are not imagining something you wish happened?

Fanfare? There doesn't seem to be much written about this event:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22gore+quits+democratic+leadership+council%22

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22gore+leaves+democratic+leadership+council%22

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22gore+resigns+from+democratic+leadership+council%22&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22gore+resigns+from+dlc%22&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22gore+quits+dlc%22

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-44%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22gore+leaves+dlc%22&btnG=Search

[PassingFair]

33. Try a simple "gore dlc"

Here's the FIRST article, from THE NATION:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050321/berman

snip>But the DLC's great hopes in 2000 of becoming a permanent power center in Washington never materialized. Al Gore's promising New Democratic candidacy turned sour for the DLC when Gore, a DLC founder, switched to a populist strategy after trailing in the polls. No one but the DLC believes that strategy cost Gore the election. "Gore's defeat didn't reinvigorate the DLC as the defeat of Dukakis did, nor did it vindicate their strategy like the election of 1992," says Baer, a Gore speechwriter in 2000. In George W. Bush's first term, the DLC emerged as an important backer of "compassionate conservatism" and convinced the Democratic leadership to back Bush's war with Iraq. Current and former DLC chairmen Evan Bayh, Joe Lieberman and Dick Gephardt flanked Bush at a ceremony announcing the war resolution. Still enthralled by centrist orthodoxy, prowar candidates emerged as early frontrunners in the Democratic primary.

Gore has NOT been DLC for many years.

DLC supports the war.

CLEARLY.

[Tesha]

38. He grew up, though. (NT)

[bvar22]

14. If I wanted to vote for a republican,

I'ld join their fuckin party!

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. We already do own it

http://imgred.com/

[jgraz]

23. When people flame me for saying Hillary is worse than a Rethug, I point to things like this

Without the DLC, the monsters have no cover, no one on "the other side of the aisle" to make their atrocities look respectable.

[Totally Committed]

7. I've been saying this for months, if not over a year now.

I very much agree on your Trojan Horse analogy!

TC

[cascadiance]

9. This is Rahm!

[Individualist]

43. I wish I could recommend your post.

Pelosi and Reid have obviously been taking their marching orders from the subversive DLC since attaining the majority, yet many are still clinging to the cowardice/blackmail excuse because they're in denial about complicity.

[scarletwoman]

47. Thanks for your kind words. I've been ranting against the DLC for YEARS.

It still astounds me that some DUers will still show up in threads like this and attempt to exonerate the DLC.

If they truly want the Democratic Party to be a wholly DLC-run organization, they may as well be advocating for a full-on merger with the neocons.

sw

[me b zola]

4. Steny & Rahm

:grr:

[Tom Joad]

6. wHoyer does it again. I saw him in the restroom tapping his feet, waiting for a lobbyist

to respond.

[cascadiance]

8. DCCC gets NIOOOOOO money from me until they axe these people...

... AND work to push them out of the party!

We don't need any more corporatist Dems! These people are ruining the party AND the country now!

[leftchick]

26. past tense

"ruined". It is not repairable.

[quiet.american]

10. It just goes on and on, doesn't it. n/t

[bvar22]

15. "They" were going to "fix" the Patriot Act too.

Instead, we got Patriot Act 2.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[bigtree]

16. That's some real fine reporting

" . . . no one wants this capitulation except Hoyer and Emanuel . . ."

But, they "aren't voting" for it?

Okay . . . (as admitted by the Matt Stoller) no one is 'on the record' saying ANYthing asserted in the post and he has no knowledge of ANYthing actually in the bill. :eyes:

But, that's some real fine reporting . . .

[jgraz]

24. And your last piece of investigative journalism would be...?

No, easier to piss on those who are raising the alarm. Why don't you check back when Stoller's assertions turn out to be dead-on.

[bigtree]

28. I gave the reason, you choose to attack me rather than address the piece

and it's lack of ANYTHING backing up the hearsay used as the premise.

Why don't you admit that this is nothing but a rumor?

[chill_wind]

17. Follow the money. Guess who gets a lot of it from the Telco's?

AT&T & Verizon lobbyists have working Congress hard the past couple weeks per reports yesterday on Democracy Now.

In the meantime...check the current piggy banks at www.opensecrets.org

AT&T has been among the Top Spenders in 2007-- # 5 in fact.

TOP Spenders, 2007

Client Total

US Chamber of Commerce $21,160,000

General Electric $11,960,000

Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $10,706,600

American Medical Assn $10,332,000

AT&T Inc $9,754,148

(more at link)

Top 10 Blue Chip Donor Dossiers (All time top 100 since 1989)
(AT&T ranks second)

American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $38,673,449
AT&T Inc $38,076,096
National Assn of Realtors $30,873,798
National Education Assn $27,267,750
American Assn for Justice $27,117,606
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $26,731,306
Goldman Sachs $26,414,065
Laborers Union $25,817,139
Service Employees International Union $25,072,293
Carpenters & Joiners Union $25,010,270

(more snipped)

Based on data released by the FEC on Monday, June 04, 2007.

More:
(View Full List) http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/index.asp

***********************************************


Oh gosh-- which Dem is in the top 5 recipients for Telco $$ ? . See the Top 20:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=B08&cycle=2006


More at link from September 07:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/chill_wind/40

[chill_wind]

18. This is coming TOMORROW. Kick and rec this up. n/t

[upi402]

19. Anyone ready for an opposition party to the R's

I mean the Republicans have infested the corpse of the corpus Democratic pretty thoroughly, huh?

[defendandprotect]

20. Pelosi seemed pretty shaken up about the last FISA approval . . . AFTERWARDS -- !!!

Hoyer isn't going to work for us --
Somehow we have to sideline DLC crowd --
No money is one way ---

[Hawkowl]

22. FUCK THEM!

I think it is quite apparent that Hoyer and Emmanuel are the ones controlling the agenda. In my opinion these DLC'ers are WORSE than rethuglicans. Lying hypocrites. Traitorous fascists masquerading as compassionate beings. It is precisely because of these bastards that I know longer identify myself as a democrat. When people ask, I say I am an independent. The mainstream democrats like Pelosi and HRC are too conservative and weak for me.

[leftchick]

25. seriously, does this even surprise anyone?

anyone?

:shrug:

They are fucking worse than repukes because they lie and lie and lie to your face while taking money from the corporations, whom they really work for.

[radfringe]

27. I'd send them a miner's helmet with a light on it

so they can find their way out of the cave-in - but I fear I will be told they don't have the "volts" for the light to work....

[NC_Nurse]

30. Among other things....

:(

[UnitedVoters]

34. Hoyer is pulling one power play after the other on Pelosi. He's doing it with HR 811 too.

HR 811, the one bill with any hope at all of protecting our election in 2008, has been held up in the Rules Committee by Hoyer. He has changed the bill to suit his own special interest buddies, but it still is our best hope of getting some form of voter-verified paper ballots and audits for 2008. But the clock is running out while Hoyer fools around.

Hoyer is setting the stage for the repugs to steal 2008 and Pelosi will be blamed.

HR 811 and the new FISA bill are just power plays for Hoyer to damage Pelosi.

Hoyer is shameless and is a DISGRACE TO OUR PARTY. John Murtha, a man of honor, would have been so much better as Majority Leader.

I live in a Red State, but I gave til it hurt in 2004 only to see DINO-Dems like Hoyer let the whole thing slip away in Ohio (and in Florida in 2000.)

No more. I am not donating one damn dime to the Dems until we have voter-verified paper ballots and audits. And Hoyer needs to go.

[bigtree]

35. The Hoyer-Holt compromise to H.R. 811:

PFAW: Best chance to give voters paper trails, confidence in voting in 2008 and beyond

WASHINGTON, July 27 -- Today, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Rep. Rush Holt of New Jersey announced a compromise that will advance H.R. 811, the "Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2007." The bill bans paperless voting machines and requires a voter-verified paper record for every vote in the country.

"Today's announcement gives Americans renewed hope that Congress will soon put an end to unaccountable, unverifiable, and inaccessible voting," said Ralph G. Neas, president of People For the American Way. "Millions of voters were disenfranchised in recent elections, and millions of others have wondered if their votes were correctly counted. That is intolerable. Given how much is at stake in the coming elections, passing this legislation should be the nation's top domestic legislative priority."

-- Ensures that by the 2008 presidential elections there will be a paper record for all votes cast in federal elections, and makes the paper ballot the ballot of record for purposes of a recount;
-- Institutes a system of mandatory random audits;
-- Prohibits wireless devices in voting machines;
-- Makes voting system "source code" --- the software that runs the voting machine --- subject to examination should discrepancies arise;
-- Provides for emergency paper ballots should voting machines break down or fail in any way.
-- Mandates upgrades to provide durable paper records and enhanced accessible technology by 2012.

Neas praised the tenacious efforts of Majority Leader Hoyer, Representative Holt, and members of a diverse coalition to reach a compromise that achieves all those essential goals, and noted that the legislation includes requirements to ensure accessibility as well as accuracy and reliability, a provision that has garnered a letter of appreciation from the Consortium of Citizens with Disabilities.

Neas also noted that the compromise addresses some concerns raised by local election officials about having sufficient time and resources to comply with new requirements. The bill authorizes over $1 billion to offset anticipated costs to state and local governments. It also provides a reasonable fix for election officials so they are not forced to purchase all new technology by November 2008, while still providing voters with the ability to verify their votes. Election officials will have the option to upgrade their DREs to include verifiable paper records as in interim step or use optical scan voting systems.

"The status quo is unacceptable, and maintaining the status quo in 2008 with this fair and practical solution before us would be inexcusable," Neas said. "We urge Members of Congress to recognize the 'urgency of now' and call for swift bipartisan approval in the House of Representatives."

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=24370

[Yellow Horse]

37. Yeah, well now it's stuck in Rules thanks to Hoyer and the 2008 election is AT RISK.

Hoyer fiddles while our Democracy burns.

Common Cause, MoveOn, PFAW, Verified Voting, VoteTrustUSA, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Brennan Center, Working Assets, True Majority, and a bunch of state and local groups want this bill to move.

And Hoyer is sitting on it -- day after day after day after day.

Quit tinkering with the bill, Steny! MOVE HR 811 NOW.

[bigtree]

39. the bill is flawed

it's getting hammered by states who have their own systems but would be required to replace those under this bill. Also there's opposition to the watering down of the provision i the original bill which would have allowed inspection of the machines in a recount, allowing inspection of the software. The compromise bill changes that to a closed, secret review by a select few.

I think it needs work.

[demodonkey]

40. THE BILL IS NEEDED. You are repeating the lies told by Hoyer's buddies.

It is getting hammered by a big-budget lobbying campaign from the National Association of Counties and others who are VENDOR-FUNDED. Hoyer has caved to them.

There is still a lot of good in the bill that we desperately need.

And -- mark my words -- if Hoyer and his cronies get away with stalling HR 811 in the Democratic Party-led House, the result will be that NO OTHER BILL FOR VOTER-VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS WILL EVER, EVER AGAIN GET EVEN THIS FAR. Again, mark my words.

It is long past time for HR 811 to have moved on to the Senate.

[bigtree]

41. I don't know anything about Hoyers buddies.

I think we need the bill, but these are the concerns which are holding it up, not some pet peeve of Hoyer. Frickin hollering at me like I'm some sort of goddam legislator is ridiculous. Read the news. Here's one account.

E-Vote: States, Local Governments Unite to Pull Elections Bill

Sep 27, 2007, News Report

National organizations representing the nation's governors, mayors, state legislatures and cities have joined the National Association of Counties (NACo) in calling on House leadership to send back to the drawing board legislation which would require the replacement of existing voting equipment in time for next year's presidential election.

The groups sent House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer a letter today urging them "to resist bringing H.R. 811, the Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2007 to the House floor during the first session of the 110th Congress." The organizations argue that state and local officials were not adequately involved in the legislative process and as a result, the bill is "fraught with problems."

In the Sept. 18 letter, the groups ask House leadership to avoid hasty consideration of the bill because, "The majority of states already require a voter-verified paper record of every voter's vote. H.R. 811 would preempt those laws, requiring states to replace equipment they purchased to comply with the Help America Vote Act of 2002 -- even if it already offers a voter-verified paper trail -- with technology that does not exist yet. As a result, it imposes an unfunded federal mandate of unknown proportions."

The letter signers include the National Governors Association, the National Association of Secretaries of State, the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Council of State Governments, NACo, the National League of Cities, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the International City/County Management Association, the National Association of Towns and Townships, the National Association of Election Officials, the National Association of County Recorders, Election Officials and Clerks, and the International Association of Clerks, Recorders, Election Officials and Treasurers.

(all of them Hoyer's buddies, I guess)

The groups called on Congress "to bring state and local officials to the table to work together to write legislation that has meaningful and realistic standards and allows sufficient time, flexibility and funding for implementation to assure every American voter of the integrity of our elections."

http://www.govtech.com/gt/articles/149738

[demodonkey]

42. These stories and this letter originated with lobbyists of NACo and others. READ THIS:

Here are just a few of the organizations who signed this letter. And yes, they are "Hoyer's buddies" because he is caving to them and ignoring citizens and citizen-funded groups mentioned in the post above.

NACo:
http://www.naco.org/Template.cfm?Section=Corporate_Membership_Program&Template=/cffiles/naco/corpmembers.cfm
(note their membership includes ES&S, Sequoia Voting Systems, Hart Intercivic -- and MICROSOFT!)

National Association of Election Officials = The Election Center and R. Doug Lewis. Highly Vendor-Funded & vendor-connected.
http://www.electioncenter.org/membership.html#corporate

National Association of Secretaries of State = vendor funded.
http://nass.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=70

International Association of Clerks, Recorders, Election Officials and Treasurers = vendor funded.
http://www.iacreot.com/vendors.html

SHALL I GO ON??

The letter is full of inaccurate statements (lies) about HR 811, deliberately designed to distort public opinion, and Congress' opinion about this bill so that vendors can continue to have their way. READ THIS:
http://electionmathematics.org/VoteYesHR811.pdf

And -- READ THE BILL! It is NOT an unfunded mandate, it does NOT require every county to get new machines, it does NOT require DREs, and it absolutely does NOT require some device that is not invented yet.

If this bill fails -- again mark my words -- NO VOTER-VERIFIED PAPER BALLOT BILL WILL GET THIS FAR AGAIN in the foreseeable future. And don't be surprised if we "lost" another one when you wake up on the morning of November 5, 2008.

[bigtree]

45. I don't understand why you think I need convincing

these groups are the ones complaining. I have absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Your original claim was that Hoyer was responsible for the hold up because of some personal interest. Apparently, opposition to moving HIS bill forward is more complex than that.

[Me.]

36. Call Pelosi!

[phone]

After I spoke to a staff member she also connected me to a line that takes messages so maybe they are saving them

[Tom Joad]

48. What should i call her?

[bbgrunt]

44. I can't contain my disgust for this frickin bunch of losers.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

46. Let them know how you feel about this!

Nancy Pelosi
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Steny Hoyer
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Rahm Emmanuel
Fax: [phone]