IA, NH, NV, SC may get sued by Florida for "conspiracy to intimidate the presidential candidates"

[madfloridian]

I really thought Florida Senate leader Steve Geller was kidding in his own strange way. After reading this article today, I don't think he is kidding.

It just can not get any stranger here in Florida.

From the Tampa Tribune
Democrats Fight Sanctions

...state Sen. Steve Geller of Hallandale Beach vowed to file a lawsuit against the four early primary states that demanded the boycott.

Geller's lawsuit could be the third filed in the case. He said it will allege a "conspiracy to intimidate the presidential candidates" by the Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina Democratic parties that disenfranchises minority voters in Hillsborough County.

The county is one of the jurisdictions covered under the federal Voting Rights Act, so its minority voters are protected against anything that dilutes their voting power. Geller said the boycott pledge does that by preventing county voters from seeing the candidates at campaign events.

Looks like the candidates will be caught in the middle of this very bad situation brought on when the Florida Democrats voted almost 100% yes with the Florida Republicans to move the primary to January 29th. If they had voted no, if they had stood up to them...their delegates would have counted.

Here is more about the other suits going on here in Florida. Remember Kendall Coffey of Bush v Gore in 2000?

Florida Dems pick Kendall Coffey to challenge the DNC..."Echoes of 2000"

Echoes of 2000

Something about this sounds familiar: Florida Democrats have picked Kendall Coffey, the Miami attorney who took the lead for Al Gore during the 2000 recount, to challenge the Democratic National Committee's decision to relieve the state of its delegates at the 2008 presidential convention.

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., and U.S. Rep. Alcee Hastings, Florida's top House Democrat, say they plan to file suit next week to force the DNC to recognize Florida's Jan. 29 presidential primary. The DNC voted last month that Florida must forfeit its delegates because the primary will be held before the allowed date of Feb. 5.

In spite of all the lawsuits, I really did not think Geller was serious about suing the first four states. I guess he is. He called them "terrorist rogue states" when he was speaking to a group of professional businessmen in Palm Beach.

I guess it should not have surprised me.

[cali]

1. Well, it surprises me, even though I've been following

your excellent posts on this topic. This is beyond stupid. I hope Mr. Geller gets his ass kicked out of court.

[hedgehog]

2. Is someone paying this guy to do this?

Someone has to draw a line in the sand somewhere or we'll be holding the primaries for 2012 on November 111, 2008! Sorry Florida, I wish I could go first, too but rules is rules.

[blm]

9. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they are doing this FOR Dem powermongers

who are ramping this up into an even more explosive situation to target Dean for removal as soon as the party nominee is in place.

I am not willing to pretend this isn't happening and who is behind it. Dems only have a small number of influential voices who can pull this type of political manipulation to this degree within the party.

Effing fools.

They couldn't spend any of that political influence leading any opposition to BushInc the last year, but they sure know how to undermine other Dems.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[movonne]

34. You sure hit the nail on the head...great post...they are just trying

to get rid of dean...I really blame this on the DLC who are fighting with us who are progressive and or Liberal..(I prefer Liberal) they are trying very hard to run this as a repug light or maybe not so light..but it is sicking..I do disagree with you that there are a few..they have been putting these blue dog dems in place...we have really been had...

[BootinUp]

3. Somehow I see a voter revolt in the future

against all these idiots in Florida.

[Me.]

4. OK, Now They're Just Nuts

And should be herded of to the laughingstock hall of fame. The good of this is, if they go ahead, Dean will have a number of strong allies to battle this bunch of coconuts.

What is their point? Is the plan to turn Fla. over to the republicons, is there any reason to this madness?

[madfloridian]

6. A couple of articles have made mention of Nelson...

wanting a VP spot and getting his ratings up. Don't know if that is true.

Geller is the one who laughed his own amendment off the floor, the one to keep the primary at Feb. 5th. He was sarcastic and said it was only to have something to show the DNC they tried to fight.

It could be just that simple...getting attention. It never had to happen at all.

[Dr.Phool]

30. Nelson as VP.

:puke:

Talk about a DLC dream (read: nightmare) ticket.

Hillary - Nelson '08.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[aquart]

52. Please give me the links which implicate Hillary in this.

Or were you too busy playing with your emoticons to bother with fact?

[Dr.Phool]

53. I'm not trying to implicate Hillary in this.

I'm just making an observation about what a douche I think Bill Nelson is. And I'm not very fond of Hillary either.

[tnlefty]

35. I wish that I could agree with you right now, but not only is

madfloridian getting ostracisized in her state, it is dividing dems all over the country! A good friend of mine (used to be an avid Dean supporter) and I can't even discuss this anymore, and he's thrown a couple of insults my way, which were answered with calm, no name calling, to the point retorts.

As I stated to my friend, I hope that the 'leaders in FL who are acting like children will be happy with the end result!' :shrug:

[madrchsod]

5. i think i`m not going to say anything bad about

illinois democrats after reading this. ya, i thought our party here was out to lunch but they can`t top this..is there anyone (expect you) down there that understand what they are doing to the party?

what is his agenda?

[madfloridian]

17. Agree...

Florida makes other state parties look pretty efficient.

Sadly.

[Dr.Phool]

27. I think you're wrong.

I think it can, and will get a lot stranger.

I guess the FDP plans on having a lot of money to spend on legal fees. They won't have to spend it on candidates next year, since they can't recruit anyone to run for the Statehouse and Senate races.

And who can blame anyone for not wanting to run? When you have to deal with this gaggle of idiots, and they don't give you any support anyway.

In Florida, the stupidity and incompetence starts at the DEC level and grows exponentially in Tallahassee.

Dr. Dean has been trying his damnedest to turn these into viable organizations, and they fight him every step of the way. I'm glad I washed my hands of these knuckleheads.

[renie408]

7. Wow. I live in a terrorist rogue state. Cool. n/t

[Debi]

22. Welcome to the terrorist rogue club!

:hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

8. well this "terrorist rogue state"

isn't trying to do anything other than what we've done for ever.

"New Hampshire is a state of firsts. It was the first state to declare independence from England, the first to hold a constitutional convention and notably, it is the first state to hold and cast ballots in the nation's presidential primaries. The latter distinction fixes the attention of the nation and undoubtedly many parts of the world squarely on the tiny New England state every four years when it becomes the focal point of national politics."


It is also the only state in the nation who's constitution contains a "Right to Revolution"- our constitution having been written in 1783.


yeah, we're a bunch of terrarists alright- And we're not fond of bushes.

[AZ Criminal JD]

19. Don't be so full of yourself

The Florida party has done the right thing and your day is coming. Enjoy it while you can. This is the last primary election your state will be first in anything.

[yewberry]

21. "The FL party has done the right thing?"

How's that?

By making a power grab during an election cycle? By lying about it? Flouting the rules that they (and every other state) agreed to? Undermining Dean and the DNC? Risking the disenfranchisement of their own constituents? Threatening meritless lawsuits?

The FDP is making a laughingstock out of the Democratic party. As far as I'm concerned, the FDP should be wearing orange vests and picking up garbage by the side of the road with the rest of the petty criminals. Or launched into space.

Assholes.

[Debi]

23. What exactly has New Hampshire done wrong???

"your day is coming"? :rofl:

[madfloridian]

28. Sounds like a threat to me....maybe they'll sue also???

Everyone is suing everyone else...sounds like a threat to me.

:rofl:

[Debi]

31. Iowa hasn't sued anyone that I'm aware of .... yet

:7

[madfloridian]

32. Nope, you are right. Just Florida is being sue-crazy.

And they really are. Bill Nelson hiring Kendall Coffey of 2000 fame?

Florida needs to stop. :hi:

[Common Sense Party]

69. I can't wait until the day when Guam has the first primary

2years and 3 months before the general election.

Cripes, when is this going to end?

[hedgehog]

10. I really don't care who is first.

I'd rather see a mechanism that allows all the candidates to stay in the game to the end.

I'm going to drive people over the edge and repeat myself for the umpteenth time: this has to be settled on way or another before the convention or we're going to be spending the general campaign arguing whether X or Y is the official candidate instead of going after the Republican!

[Yukari Yakumo]

11. Sad, pathetic, and stupid. In that order. {nt}

[madfloridian]

13. I agree.

It is hurting the party unity here badly.

[aquart]

51. Question: Are these actual Democrats?

I'm not asking because I don't think we are capable of insane, suicidal behavior...I'm at DU, after all, flailing into the fray day after day. I'm asking because of a hazy memory from 2000 that some official posts which required a Democrat to fill them were actually being held by Republicans who "converted" just for the job.

[madfloridian]

12. He blames those 4 states for all of it. He really is serious.

I am still stunned by this, as I was sort of thinking it would be a joke...but it isn't.

http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070930/CAPITOLNEWS/709300333/1010

""The problem here was not with the DNC, despite the bluster on both sides at the top," said state Sen. Steve Geller, D-Cooper City, the Senate minority leader. "The four states torpedoed this for us."

[bemildred]

14. This guy needs to get back on his meds. nt

[mitchtv]

15. Clinton's Penis is next

what a sham

[yewberry]

16. Text for the "conspiracy to intimidate the presidential candidates" here:

Four State Pledge Letter 2008

Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina

August 31, 2007


WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a
2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic
diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and
the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the
nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

Seriously, how can anyone argue "conspiracy to intimidate" here?

[Blackhatjack]

18. "terrorist rogue states"???? LOL

I thought those were American states. When did they secede from the Union?

[AZ Criminal JD]

20. When they tried to stop Democrats from voting

Not only do these states want to deny the Democratic vote in Florida and Michigan but they want to stop candidates from campaigning in those states. Talk about an attack on the First Amendment! That's when they became "terrorist rogue states."

[Debi]

24. You really don't know what you are talking about

Representatives from each state voted to establish a calendar (that included FL and MI representatives).

Members of the legislature of FL and MI (and their Governors) decided to BREAK THE DNC RULES and THEIR STATE'S AGREEMENT TO THOSE RULES and change the date of their primary.

IA/NV/NH/SC have asked the candidates to not honor RULE BREAKERS and follow the calendar set over a year ago.

[AZ Criminal JD]

36. How long are the special interests in Iowa

going to continue to extort our candidates with ethanol? The ethanol additive has proven to be the worst additive ever to gas. It reduces the miles per gallon and wastes energy. Iowans want to "vote" - if that is what you want to call your anti-democratic caucus system -- first so they can continue to demand that candidates bow down to ethanol. This is an assault on our environment and the Iowa needs to vote last, not first.

The candidates have not been "asked" not to campaign -- they have been threatened with sanctions if they campaign in in FL or MI. That is a violation of their First Amendment rights and those states should be sued or their delegations thrown out of the convention which would be the better solution.

[yewberry]

39. The special interests in FL are more important, then?

Please. Ethanol may be a colossal waste, but that doesn't really have any bearing on primary schedules or the rules that the states agreed to abide by.

And the candidates have not been threatened. The text of the request is posted above. The states don't have to power to levy sanctions on candidates. No violation of First Amendment rights, no reason to sue, and the only states that should risk losing their delegates are the ones trying to violate the rules.

[AZ Criminal JD]

40. Ethanol absolutely has a bearing on the primary schedule.

It is why Iowa is so desperate to keep its caucus first and will try any tactic or means to keep it. New Hampshire wants its primary first because it is only way they can force people to come to that state in the fall or winter.

[yewberry]

41. Insulting states doesn't make your argument any more sound

or more attractive. I'm sure that NH will do just fine without you ever crossing their border.

Most states have special interest groups. Florida does. Are you suggesting that the DNC and all the states that are abiding by their agreement to the primary schedule are secretly trying to preserve ethanol as a primary issue?

Really?

[AZ Criminal JD]

45. This is their one claim to fame

Ethanol is an important factor in why Iowa wants to keep first at all costs. These two states know they will lose any importance in the political process if they don't get to vote first. However it must be ended because it is very damaging to candidate selection. Large, diverse states, where the Democratic base is located are left out. Then we wonder why we get some of the candidates we get.

[yewberry]

48. Small states are damaging to candidate selection?

Are you kidding?

Starting in small states with small media markets and large independent voting blocs is currently the only way that less-funded candidates can be heard. If we started with FL or CA or NY, we'd be guaranteed that only the richest (i.e. corporate-backed) candidates would ever appear on the national stage.

Until we make publicly-funded elections a priority, small states need to play an important role.

[Romulox]

63. Clinton and Obama, the TWO BEST FUNDED candidates, lead in NH and Ia...

Your theory doesn't work in the real world. In reality, the 4 tiny states are simply the easiest for the big $$$ candidates to buy off.

[Debi]

46. How many caucuses have you participated in to know whether or not

the process is anti-democratic? Do you even know what occurs at a caucus? Not just the presidential preference part, but what occurs after that? Or are you just spewing uneducated haltered toward Iowa because that's what's in vogue?

As for Ethanol, in what other state would people discuss Ethanol? Are you aware that Iowa is the largest corn producer in America? You disagree with Ethanol as a fuel source, so be it. But where else would Ethanol enthusiasts go but the state that harvests the most corn?

As for the pledge, the candidates were asked to sign it. That is all. The pledge was created outside of the DNC and any of the sanctions or rules created by the DNC calendar commission (which both Florida and Michigan had representatives on AND voted for the rules and sanctions). Only six of the candidates chose to sign the pledge, no one forced any campaign to do so.

As for the pledge being a violation of candidates First Amendment rights, please show me where in the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights WHERE it states that signing a pledge to not support states that choose to break the rules that THEIR OWN REPRESENTATIVES HELPED CREATED AND VOTED ON will create a violation of that candidates rights.

The text of the amendment is:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I'll wait here...

[AZ Criminal JD]

49. I have not participated in any caucus

But I have been involved in politics for many decades so I know what goes on there. The vote is not secret and takes place in front of everyone who is there. That is called intimidation. I believe in the secret vote. I guess I am old school. Happy to see you quoted the First Amendment. I am a attorney who often litigates constitutional issues. You didn't mention the 14th Amendment. The Supreme Court has applied the First Amendment to the states through the 14th Amendment. There are serious issues here and I hope Florida party takes this to court.

[Debi]

50. You've never experienced a caucus but you feel that you are knowledgeable enough to tell

those of us who have what goes on (including that frightening intimidation I keep hearing about but have never experienced...)

You're an attorney? WOW, wish I knew an attorney who understood constitutional law. Wonder where I could find one of those....:eyes:

With regard to the 14th Amendment, as the mother of a wonderful young man with a disability I understand the history that has evolved around it. That doesn't explain your belief that it has anything to do with the pledge, since you have so much experience why don't you explain it to us that are less knowledgeable?

[AZ Criminal JD]

56. You are making the exact argument the Supreme Court

rejected in the religion in school cases. Those who favor prayer in schools mocked the idea that a group of praying students could intimidate an individual student who did not want to participate. "If they don't want to participate they can just sit there." Peer pressure does in fact work and while you may not have been intimidated I am sure many have been. If not, why don't we just abolish the secret vote in any election? After all according to your thinking no one should have anything to hide. Right?

[Debi]

57. That's not what I'm saying at all

You're assuming that a caucus is an acrimonious situation when in fact it is a gathering of like-minded neighbors in a neutral setting. They are all there for the same purpose (and it's not necessarily to select the next Democratic nominee that is only what occurs in the first 30-60 minutes of a caucus). Caucuses are party builders, selecting Central Committee Members, Organizers for the Platform for county conventions, who will organize refreshments for the county convention, what volunteerism each person wants to perform for the party as well as who wants to be a delegate to the county convention. Walking into a caucus is not walking into the Lion's Den, but again you wouldn't understand that because you have never participated in a caucus.

[madfloridian]

29. Now that is simply pathetic.

It really truly is pathetic.

:cry:

[Counciltucky]

25. As an Iowan, I say to Florida...

Bring it on. I DARE you.

[Debi]

26. Did you really say 'Bring It On'???

You've been hanging out w/Steve King WAAAAAAY too much buddy! x(

[Counciltucky]

43. Just because I've met King doesn't mean I've ever been a Republican.

Unlike SOME people I know... :P

[Debi]

47. That's it.....come back home and BRING IT ON you little weasle

:grr:

[Counciltucky]

61. What would you do -- try and convert me to the GOP?

:rofl:

[Debi]

62. Hey, your best buddy Steve could tell you that their caucuses are easier

all you gotta do is write a name on a piece of paper and you can go home. No thinking involved! How do I know this??? :evilgrin: Yes, I have been to the DARK SIDE :scared:

[Counciltucky]

65. Please elaborate, Mrs. Republican.

:P

[Debi]

66. In 1996 I caucused for Dick Lugar

Unlike a Democratic caucus at a republican caucus it starts with supporters of candidates speaking on their behalf. Then everyone is handed a slip of paper to write their preference down - get it? It's just a straw poll. While the votes are being counted the choices for the local Central Committee are selected and blah blah blah....no thinking involved.

HOWEVER I have participated in more Democratic caucuses than republican AND I have never served in any position in organized republican activities or on republican campaigns. I've earned my spot in the Democratic Party smarty-pants!! x(

[Counciltucky]

67. *cough* Double-agent *cough*

;-)

[Debi]

68. Then you'll have to call Sen. Barack Obama a double-agent as well

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/2/13537/9487

Hmmmmmmm :P

[Counciltucky]

70. That was bipartisanship.

You were simply partisan. For the Republicans. :-P

[Debi]

72. *sigh* Counciltucky, if you don't quit picking on me

I'm gonna take my clip board and close down the Lido Deck :cry: this Hospitality Director cannot take such inhospitableness from Iowans on this cruise.






Heh heh


:hide:

[Counciltucky]

73. I tease because I love.

I love all people -- independents like most, Dems like Seth ... and Republicans like you.

:rofl:

[youthere]

54. Er..I WASN'T going to post the exact same thing...honest.

As far as a lawsuit is concerned, I simply must quote my grandfather "Anytime you're feeling froggy, you just go right ahead and jump!"

[Debi]

55. *snark*

:hi:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

33. madfloridian, thank you for keeping us informed on this issue

If not for you and your insightful post, I wouldn't have a clue as to what was really taking place there right now.

This latest event is so pathetic it borders on insane.

[KoKo]

58. I second that....Thanks MF for this info...bizarre as it is....seems

every day there's something more bizarre than the last. Hang in there...it can't be easy.

[madfloridian]

71. Bizarre is a very good word.

When describing Florida's actions lately.

[tnlefty]

37. I wish that Dean would pull the paid staffers out of FL. I think that

you mentioned that it costs the DNC $350K to pay for them, and let Gellar, who is now a piece of filth to me, (calling other states and their citizens terrorist, rogue states is not cool in my mind and very much like the bullshit the right pulls), and let him bankrupt the FDP with his crazy lawsuits.

Let the candidates and their campaigns foot the bill for anyone who is working in FL. Enough is enough, IMHO!

[madfloridian]

44. Plus he bailed the Florida party out of debt ....$200,000

I am still finding it unbelievable how they have acted. They just threw it all out there as on big lie, saying to all the members that Dean stole their vote.

Just like when Bush lied about Iraq.

[TygrBright]

38. That's just... sad. Really sad.

Personally, I'd like to see a national caucus night on or about March 1st of the election year, with local conventions a month later, state conventions in May, and the national conventions in July for both parties simultaneously.

Caucuses let the people in the party trenches get a toe in the door of the smoke-filled rooms. Primaries are just a kabuki act, a wholly-owned subsidiary corporation of the powerbrokers in each party.

If a delegate's favored candidate drops out or is eliminated at any level, they could caucus for and vote for whomever they see fit at the next level up.

impatiently,
Bright

[mnhtnbb]

42. Hey, FL got to put Bush in power for 8 years. They're hot stuff!

[amb123]

59. EXPEL THE FLORIDA "DEMOCRATIC" PARTY!

Form a new state party that SUPPORTS the DNC and NOT THE DLC!!!

:argh: :nuke: :grr:

[provis99]

60. this is all about conservatives in the party trying to seize power

No surprise that Bill Nelson is knee-deep involved. He wants to take down Dean and the anti-DLC crowd badly. Nelson doesn't give a damn about Florida voters. If he were the Senator of another state, he would be fighting just as hard to put that state ahead of the "terrorist four" just as a means of indirectly attacking the DNC. Manipulative, Machiavellian asshole dedicated to turning the Democratic Party of today into the Democratic Party of the 1950s.

[Romulox]

64. Clinton campaign chair Terry McAulliffe appointed the members of the Scheduling Commission...

As you know, the rules that you adopted were the result of an 18-month-long inclusive and deliberative process that included the work of the Commission on Presidential Nomination Timing and Scheduling that was established by the 2004 Convention in Boston and whose members were appointed by former DNC Chairman McAuliffe in December 2004.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/09/howard_deans_letter.php