At What Point Do We Just Give Up?

[Me.]

We've been fighting the good fight for the last 7 years. And nothing has changed, in fact, despite the 2006 election, you could say they're looking worse. Another war is looming and if They have their way it will happen. Listening to MSNBC right now, in a discussion about the debate, one of the so-called pundits they've called in for an expert opinion is Dan Gerstein. You remember him, liar for Lieberman (you know, the guy who has pushed through two resolutions for war with Iran) and writer of a piece about how the DLC is the reality section of the democratic party. He should never be given a forum for his views, yet there he is.

So is there coming a time when we just fold up our tents, walk away and try to live our lives the best we can until, if ever, the people in this country stage a revolt (cause that's what it's going to take, it seems) or do we hang on as long as we can?

[Stuckinthebush]

1. If Hillary loses in 2008

Then we can give up.

[omega minimo]

50. You mean, if Hillary wins

[Stuckinthebush]

68. LOL...yes that too.

I am beginning to lose hope.

[blonndee]

97. I agree. When Hillary wins. n/t

[Generator]

51. Or if she wins

HA! Which is what of course WILL happen, the chorus will be singing on high-happy days are here again!-such dreamers-the system is CORRUPT and ROTTEN to the core. In some ways nothing CAN change even with a new president-no matter who-with the primacy of the miltiary in this country. You cannot CANNOT tell the truth about the military. It is not being used to protect us. It is being used for greed and games. It is a farce. And it is also bankrupting us. But ah well-a Democrat in the White House means all the wars end immediately right? And that we get our jobs back from India and Mexico right? ( a shout out to the Hil's husband on that one) And that all those great men and women in congress actually defend the constitution,right?

Not until 95% of them are GONE. And we have leaders that tell the truth about the military-just for starters.

[Beer Snob-50]

2. over? did you say over?

it ain't over til we say it is over. was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor? it wasn't over then and it ain't over now.

we have to get al gore to run. get him an attack dog as an advisor (not donna bazile who he had last time) and let him run over the field.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. The germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

I'd better return my MA in History... damn Liberal professors teaching lies about our allies the Japanese!

Sorry, had to have to fun

[Beer Snob-50]

29. The Germans? Forget it he's on a roll.

great movie, great scene.

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

60. When the Iraqi's bombed New york? nt

[puebloknot]

65. Same year the Vikings stormed the beaches at Normandy. Letters after your name ...

... don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing!!!

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

66. Well, in his defense, it was the Germans who told the Japs to do it.

Still missed something there though. . .

[dubyaD40web]

26. Hahaha!

I love that movie.

/Miss John too!

[madokie]

3. as I cross the threshold between life and death

then and only then will I

[no_hypocrisy]

4. I'm not giving up. I'm a Wolverine!

[SnoopDog]

58. Hope it does not come to that - but I am right there with ya...

[saltpoint]

5. -- --

" . . . where they know they will find me
with my maps and my faith in the distance
moving farther on..."

Jackson Browne, "Farther On"
from LATE FOR THE SKY

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jackson+browne/farther+on_20068554.html

[halobeam]

28. anyone who quotes Jackson

I know, has a soul made of gold, and spirit that will always live on.

[saltpoint]

54. Hey there, halobeam. Mr. Browne is one of the spiritual poets of the

secular realms.

I love "Farther On."

[halobeam]

84. Yes he most certainly is. Farther On is one fantastic piece of work..

I've loved this one as well...

Something Fine:

The papers lie there helplessly
In a pile outside the door
I've tried and tried, but I just can't remember what they're for
The world outside is tugging like a beggar at my sleeve
Oh, that's much too old a story to believe

And you know that it's taken its share of me
Even though you take such good care of me
Now you say "Morocco" and that makes me smile
I haven't seen Morocco in a long, long while
The dreams are rolling down across the places in my mind
And I've just had a taste of something fine

The future hides and the past just slides
England lies between
Floating in a silver mist so cold and so clean
California's shaking like an angry child will
Who has asked for love and is unanswered still

And you know that I'm looking back carefully
”Cause I know that there's still something there for me
But you said "Morocco" and you made me smile
And it hasn't been that easy for a long, long while
And looking back into your eyes I saw them really shine
Giving me a taste of something fine
Something fine

Now if you see Morocco I know you'll go in style
I may not see Morocco for a little while
But while you're there I was hoping you might keep it in your mind
To save me just a taste of something fine

[saltpoint]

98. "...who has asked for love and is unaswered still..."

Just hurt me.

What a tremendous line that is -- well, the whole verse. Well, the whole song.

I sneaked a peek at your profile and thought to myself, well, no WONDER she likes Jackson Browne. A writer and a pianist might very well cotton to Mr. Browne's work.

Thank you so much for putting "Something Fine" in front of us on these boards.

[halobeam]

109. that's the line that takes hold of the heart and doesn't let go.

I think I've played the song on my piano four times today. I couldn't get it out of my head. So I should really be thanking you!

Hey anytime I can share a "Jackson" moment with someone, it's a really GOOD day!

[poverlay]

6. When you want to lose. Your despair is their goal. They win when you give up..... .nt

[Annces]

7. I think that

all the energy is going toward supporting corporations and politicians are going along with that. If the split becomes even wider between people and government, then there will be more opposition and tension. I have never wanted anything to do with corporate America, so I don't know how you change it from within.

[Richard Steele]

8. The day the most disliked woman in the USA is anointed our candidate for President.

That's my answer- your mileage may vary.

[lonestarnot]

9. Fucking NEVER!

[porphyrian]

10. About once a week. - n/t

[stuntcat]

11. I did already :hi:

:hi: I used to get real freaked out about things but every day the world seems more ridiculous to me, it's crazy how we live and what we let happen. My only issue anymore is environment because I think if we're not taking care of it than everything else we spend our time on is trivial. So you can maybe see why I've given up :) I'll never stop voting and going to protests but from now on I'm laughing at the news, it's gonna keep getting more and more STUPID until we're like a world full of morons swimming in shit and shooting each other :rofl:

[H2O Man]

12. What?

We are just warming up.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

42. Maybe, "letting go" should be the mantra that keeps us strong?

My understanding of being powerful or influential is when a person takes a stand without attachment to the outcome.

Being powerful is 'letting go' of expectations.

btw I am neither powerful or influential and have no expectations of being either, at this time.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. There are always ways to resist the system. Politics is only one.

[SpiralHawk]

14. Nevah

Nevah, nevah, nevah

- Boston Red Sox fan

[Javaman]

15. it will be, for me, when the dems pass the current iraqi funding bill. nt

[riverdeep]

16. Imagine being a conservative in the 1960's.

Imagine you sitting there with your clean-cut crewcut and America can do no wrong attitude, blacks and women should know their place and God is right and on my side, etc. Imagine sitting there and looking out at a world changing. People questioning everything, wondering what we're doing in a war, blacks and women demanding justice, working at the roots of society. And squeezing in fun while doing it. It would be enough to make you give up.

But instead, people like Richard Mellon-Scaife and John Olin started forming think tanks that created and distributed propaganda to media organizations. Conservatives started buying media outlets. They formed campus groups and made efforts to take over student newpapers. They infiltrated radical groups, and if no one in the group was doing anything illegal, they themselves did something illegal and the group got blamed.

They didn't give up. And neither will I.

[scarletwoman]

56. They had big money, they still do. Of course they didn't give up, they can BUY the policies

they want, and they own the mass media. Your analogy doesn't really work.

Naomi Wolf said it quite well:

We have to switch our model of leadership and return it to the Revolutionary American model of citizen leaders. The Congress is not going to save us. The mainstream media is not going to save us. The pundits are not going to save us. The U.N. is not going to save us. The European Union is not going to save us. There is not a force on earth that can save us, except for our own talking to each other, clearly and urgently, to explain and convey the nature of this threat, and then for us to take radical action NOW.

<snip>

So it is a radical shift in consciousness that we need right now, and we don't have time. We need to understand right now that this is a crisis. It's not business as usual. We can't leave it to other people, to Congress, to activists, or until the next election, because we are much further along {toward fascism} than people realize.

(from her buzzflash interview here )

What we need to give up is our denial that we are deep deep shit, and realize that no amount of politics as usual is going to save us.

sw

[Me.]

74. What May Have To Be Given Up

Is the idea that the 'leadership' shares the same ideals and goals that we do, the notion that 'they' will save us and the country. We may have to accept the idea that no one is going to save us but ourselves.

[riverdeep]

85. And all that money didn't stop some of the things they wanted.

They wanted segregation, they wanted church in government, they wanted a traditional role for women, they wanted to wage a war without being questioned. They didn't get it, completely.

Of course conservatives have many built-in advantages. They pluck the best and the brightest, the valedictorians, from all around and promise them a lifetime of comfort and ease if they 'just take care of a little something.' They have a long tradition and network of oppression they can feed off of. Many other things.

But at the time, many of them were scared they were going to lose control. Even with all their advantages.

An aside: Naomi is right. What is facing us is as significant as what faced the founders of this nation or this country in the civil war. This is not just another administration.

[shireen]

17. i ask myself that all the time

as a citizen i have a duty to be informed, and I have a duty to do whatever possible to defend the constitution. but i'm also fighting long-term illness, and much of what i read on DU and news from MSM makes me feel worse. i would love to just switch off reality and live in a bubble, completely cut off from the world. Sometimes I wonder if deliberate ignorance of what's going on in the world is simply a survival mechanism. It's overwhelming, and capable of crushing the more fragile among us.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. I've been a Democrat for a LOT longer than 7 years. That's when the "good fight" started?

"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."

Someone famous said that.

[mondo joe]

19. Man, sometimes the "dems are spineless" meme seems true.

How long did proponents for women's suffrage fight?

How long did the fight to end slavery go on?

How much did people suffer and lose?

[LeftCoast]

20. The Senate just passed expanded Hate Crimes leg. Don't tell me nothing's changed

I know it's fashionable around here to bash the Democrats, but people forget so quickly how much it sucked when the Republicans controlled Congress.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Yes it is so much better now!

Especially since the Dems ended the war and impeached the president!

Oh wait . . .

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I'll applaud them when they do sometihng right

and the hate legislation was well overdue

But in matters of war and peace nothing has chanced

[LeftCoast]

27. Yes it is

It's a lot better now.

[Richard Steele]

32. And do they have their own Dept of Justice to enforce it?

The Repubs have a private DOJ that pretty much ignores those laws, y'know.

[Marr]

47. Haha- yes, attached to a war funding bill. That's a joke.

That's like losing $10,000 in Vegas and crowing about the free drinks.

[rucky]

101. Enjoy your bones. I'm waiting for the steak.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. If you can live with yourselfl go ahead, fold your tent

I know that if I do that, I will not.

Anyway I've done things these seven year that do not allow me to fold my tent. I ma already way, and I mean WAAAAYYYYY too commited

[Totally Committed]

25. When Hillary gets the nomination....

no matter who goes on to actually win.

TC

[shifting_sands]

30. Give up? or go Underground?

I know how ME feels, it just gets so tiring and we seem to sink further and further into a quagmire with a steady stream of liars and thieves as pundits as our media. We never get the straight story and few call them out on it, but give up, I don't think we can. Even if we do individually, others will take our place.

I was on the front lines of the Civil Rights March and Women's Rights and the Vietnam War Marches. I felt like we accomplished something when Civil Rights legislation was enacted and the war ended and Nixon resigned. I didn't expect to end in this mess today. I think my mistake was believing, in my youth, that it was over and racism, hate crimes, bigotry, endless war was over (except for a few pockets here and there) I believed that now there would be a steady progress toward education and inclusiveness and enlightenment and prosperity for all. That was in my youth, now we are still having to fight the monolith of greed, hate, bigotry, lies, and obscene power struggles as they try to shove another member of that egregious group down our throats. If you listen carefully you can hear the "pundits" beginning to prepare us for a GOP win (another stolen election)

It is "us" against "them," and always has been that way. Only when the will of the people become so loud and so strong do they back off. Women were put into mental institutions and killed when they loudly protested their lack of a right to vote in the early 1900's, the violence of unions in the late 1800's in order to get decent working conditions and more money for themselves.

I look at those peaceful Monks in Myanmar being beaten and killed because of their protesting for the right to assemble. I watched guns and water hoses being turned on African/Americans because they wanted the rights afforded all Americans, just common decency rights and many of them died. People died protesting the Vietnam war and we fell to our knees and cried, but the protests didn't stop.

We may be angry, but the level of anger has not risen to the heights it rose in the late 60's, I don't know if America is ready to rise up and "push back" Just like Rumsfeld thought Iraq could be buckled with "shock and awe" bombs over Baghdad, we think this government can be buckled through blogs and phone calls to the Senate and House and we are tired. My generation is waiting for the youth and the youth is waiting for leadership from my generation and so our apathy waits for change, we are not ready to be the instrument of change, we try but are quickly shut down because the numbers are not there.

If the fight is blogs and phone calls then we can't get too tired to make them, we cannot get too tired to stand watch and be the "instrument" of information, but we can't stop our lives and stop taking care of ourselves in case the shock and awe of our blogs and words don't hit home but I think they have hit home to some. After all, there is Keith Olbermann who spreads the words.

By the way, the fight in the 60's and 1800's and early 1900' weren't against the GOP, the fight was against the corruption and lies of both parties and the games this government was playing with her citizens. In the 60's we didn't make a distinction, our anger went out to Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon.

[pingzing58]

61. Thanks for your thoughtful post. Keep writing daughter of freedom!

[Greyhound]

67. Well said. We are in the same war today, the war has gone on for

over 100 years and it appears that we are still not ready to fight the next battle.

It is the same powers, the descendants of the same people, the same organizations, they are not affiliated with any party in particular, they switch back and forth as the political winds blow, they are people committed to an ideal, to end the great American experiment, to rule.

[Me.]

72. The Why Of It Eludes Me

Why would they destroy it, the very thing which has done so well by them. Why kill the golden goose?

[Greyhound]

89. It is not the American Experiment that has been so good to them, it is the

land itself. To them, the American Republic is an obstacle to be overcome, the American People are an imminently replaceable resource, and North America is a reserve of natural resources to be extracted and discarded.

If you look at history, you will find this scenario has often been repeated, the founding of this nation was, primarily, about King George's enforcement of The East India Company's monopoly.

[Me.]

102. If I'm Not Mistaken

History has also told us we've beaten them back several times. Their advantage now is the work in psychology that they've used to fine tune their propaganda, added to the fact that many people are struggling just to survive physically and don't have the time or energy to deal with anything else.

The one place where they may have slipped up is going to 'far' too fast. If they had been smoother about it, the reveal might not have come so soon. There is an anger growing globally. I point to Burma and Pakistan but there are other places. There is a great deal of anger in this country and if it ever becomes truly fixated, their empire could crumbling down. In Mary Chestnut's diary of the Civil War, it becomes very clear that nothing scared the slave owners so much as the idea of the slaves rising up and revolting.

[Greyhound]

105. You are not mistaken. Arbusto jumped the gun after 9/11, and if we manage to beat them back

again, I would not be surprised to hear of his untimely death shortly thereafter. But, for the time being, they are backing his play.

You are also correct in that the thing they fear the most is The People realizing that they have all the power, a contemporary slave revolt. Unfortunately, from what I can gather from my personal experience and reading some of the appallingly ignorant views here on DU, they don't have to much to worry about.

I think that if we could go back 231 years and bring Tom Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin here, they would both work to stop the revolution and find some other way to defeat the crown.

[bdamomma]

31. I am not willing to raise the white flag, no way, this is our country

now is not the time for us to walk away with our tails between our legs. Just my opinion.

[mdmc]

33. NAFTA / Welfare "reform"

DLC GOP uber alles

[Hamlette]

34. 7 years? For some of us it has been 40 years. I will never give up

I will never leave MY country. I will fight them with my last breath.

[robertpaulsen]

35. In 2003, our rallying cry was, "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!"

In 2007, it seems like the rallying cry for progressives is, "I WANT MY PARTY BACK!"

That jerk Gerstein and every one of his ilk need to be called out for what they are: fascist enablers. That's the "reality" he's referring to, keeping in mind that the BFEE claims to make their own reality and the rest of the country is just along for the ride.

What's the solution? I don't know. If there's such a thing as a responsible revolution, say some kind of People's Constitutional Convention to correct all the abuses that the Rethuglicans and their DLC sycophants have allowed to occur, then to quote RFK Jr, I'll see you at the barricades!

[Me.]

38. Thanks To You And Others On This Thread

I'm getting my equilibrium back. There are just moments when the black cloud passes, we've all had them. I think my despair is more aimed at those who would be so egregious in the pursuit of what...money...power? Who are these people and how did they become what they are? Is it a mass grouping of sociopaths?

My heart goes out to the people and monks of Burma. Now there's a mountain to climb!

[robertpaulsen]

39. Burma and last night's debate definitely put me in a funk too.

I saw an interview with George Harrison from 1997 who said one of his favorite political quotes was, "No matter who you vote for, the government gets in". That came to mind seeing the top three polling Dem candidates say they would not withdraw all our troops from Iraq before the end of their first term. An admonition from Bob Dylan also came to mind: "Don't follow leaders".

But I do believe the will of the people shall overcome. The will of the Iraqi people and the will of the American people are in agreement: neither wants US troops there. I don't know how long it will take, but I do believe that in the end we will leave Iraq the same way we left Vietnam.

It looks like it might take longer for the will of the people to be fulfilled in Burma. But witnessing their brave stand is truly an inspiration to me. Those totalitarian thugs who gun them down stand in the way of historical inevitability. THE PEOPLE UNITED WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED.

[Me.]

55. The Debates Were Funk Inspiring

2013? Wiggle room on Iran? 24 hours later I'm still amazed.

[H2O Man]

36. Don't Quit

(Note: I just got off the phone with a friend who was almost killed in April in an auto accident. The doctors who treated him in the ER told his family & friends that he would not survive. He had burns on his body and in his lungs that made survival impossible. My friend did the impossible. Part of what gives him the strength to continue is this poem, which he tacked to his bedroom wall as a 10-year old. It remained his favorite poem throughout his professional boxing career, in which he won the world's championship. I think there are questions about who really authored it.)

DON'T QUIT!

When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,
When the road you're trudging seems all up hill,
When the funds are low, and the debts are high,
And you want to smile, but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit,
Rest if you must, but don't you quit.

Life is queer with it's twists and turns,
As everyone of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about,
When he might have won had he stuck it out.
Don't give up though the pace seems slow,
You may succeed with another blow.

Success is failure turned inside out,
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far,
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit,
It's when things seem worse,
That you must not quit.

...Edgar A. Guest

[Me.]

37. Thank You Very Much

Just what I needed to read today. There are moments, I will confess, when it seems like it's all so gamed and the mountain is so high. And if you want to quote Martin that would be great too, because if anyone knew about struggle it would be him.

[DemReadingDU]

40. Thank you

a very nice poem

bookmarking for reference

[wildbilln864]

41. NEVER! eom!

[BlooInBloo]

43. Um, the fight goes on FOREVER, o' fainthearted one...

... "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance" and all that.

[MoonRiver]

44. There's always "something."

Why give up? All the drama keeps us feeling alive and invigorated, until we, finally, find peace outside the illusion. JMTB.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

45. I quit. Doesn't mean I'm "giving up" but I do fucking QUIT playing their game.

I QUIT!!!

I am going to do something different and be quiet.

I'll watch the raging storm, even comment on how it rages on and on.

But, I will no longer be IN THAT STORM.

I have people around me worthy of my attention,...far more worthy of my energy and love than the human hell storming this earth.

I QUIT!!!

[spanone]

46. rust never sleeps

neither will i

[Patsy Stone]

48. Never

We have been through the darkest part; I feel it.

It's taken 6 years, but the rest of America is finally with us.

The Democrats may be impotent, but they're asking questions, exposing the underbelly, and if they weren't in the very slim majority, things would be much, much worse.

Please, hang in these next 500+ days. You've made it this far, the rest is gravy.

Yes, I worry that another Republican may me elected by hook or by crook, but somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm almost okay with that because they won't be THIS guy and THESE people.

NGU

[bleever]

62. NGU.

Never Give Up.

:thumbsup:

And I really like the poem H2O Man posted upthread. There are definitely times when I can use that kind of encouragement myself.

[Patsy Stone]

91. Then, please... allow me:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z6twhsq8Qvo

:hi:

[bleever]

117. Thank you very much.

:hi:

[Patsy Stone]

118. My pleasure

Anything for my fellow DUzy winner.

:hi:

[Me.]

76. There Just Are Days & Yesterday Was One Of Them

There was an Al Gore quote (I wish I could find it) where he said in effect just when you think they've done their worst they do something even more terrible and your heart just sinks.

[Patsy Stone]

110. Even though that may be true

and too many people are dying because of this insane man and the maniacs in charge, still, it's almost over.

It's almost over.
It's almost over.
It's almost over.

[Raksha]

49. We don't give up. But we do have to recognize that in the near future

our defense of the Constitution may require that we put our lives on the line. I just had a quick glance at the Blackwater article, and I'm afraid it really *IS* just that bad.

[mmonk]

52. No matter how many republican neocon supporters we have in

the party, we cannot give up. This is our country. It just means the fight to restore the American democracy with its constitution will take longer while we get the traitors out of office.

[Generator]

53. Just stop the denial

Someone posts this and there is always a rah rah rah! we are gonna win replies. YES, it's b.s.-I'm sorry.

Things are going to have to get much worse before they can get better.

And you are correct with your analysis of the media-it is problem number one-besides the false deification of the military protecting us. And you can BET your ass they will sell the next war just as effectively as they sold us Iraq.

There is an article in Vanity Fair about the total bullshit and outright lies and propaganda thrown at Gore in 2000, and I read that and as I read that there is blood on the lovely Maureen Dowd's hands and the ugly Howard Fineman's paws. And don't even get me started on that asswipe Chris Matthews who spent the next four years boosting Bush and then tearing down Kerry.


The media is just another corporation bought and sold. We are not free. We are shoveled shit. Until there is some truth-there cannot be freedom. Don't lie to yourself. It made me sick to do that. I can't do it anymore-I don't know what is going to happen. But I KNOW sure as the sun will come up tomorrow that the politicians we have are never going to do what they have promised and I won't be fooled again.

[Greyhound]

70. It is, as it has always been, up to us. I wish it were not so, but you are right,

things will have to get worse before they can get better and, barring some miracle, we are well on our way to worse.

There are no saviors, no political party will prevent it, for they are invested in bringing it on.

[Bake]

57. Simple. NEVER.

You can quit if you like. I'm not.

NEVER. GIVE. UP.

Bake

[bonito]

59. I'm still here

:hi: :grouphug:

[Pushed To The Left]

63. NEVER give up!

If you look at the history of progressive causes, they usually end up winning eventually. It just takes a long time, but it has to start somewhere. I predict that some of the progressive issues that are considered radical in 2007 will be mainstream in 30 years. Yes, America tends to lean too far to the right, and the right wing is very strong, influential and well-funded. They represent the power structure while we support the underdog, so they will always have an advantage. However, if we remain persistent, we will eventually get the things that we want. The answer is to NEVER give up and to keep on fighting. It WILL pay off eventually.

[Prophet 451]

64. Gave up ages ago

Very few want to hear what needs to be done because it would cost money, be uncomfortable, involve real change, whatever. I gave up any hope of things actually getting better ages ago, now I'm just sticking around in the hope of fucking up the Rs.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

69. Uh...

It took the Republicans over thirty years to accomplish what they've done. Politics is not a game where you expect to win overnight.

[Perry Logan]

71. I reject the premise that nothing has changed. You've been reading the mainstream news again.

Things have not gotten all better. The Democrats have only a small majority, and they are simply not able to change everything at a stroke.

But you're seriously cherrypicking if you ignore everything they've managed to achieve. As a Democrat, you owe it to yourself to look at the whole picture.

My website has a partial list of some of the great legislation the Democrats have passed or are working on. It also lists some of the countless investigations going on. It's amazing how few people even know about this stuff. No wonder they're bummed out. This information about Democratic accomplishments will boost your morale no end.

Most importantly, you need to know that the Democratic Congress did NOT cave in to the Bush administration, as the common meme would have it. This endlessly-repeated contention is just statistically false:

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/documents/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

I'm quoting this a lot, because I think it's very important in cheering up my fellow Democrats. No one ever said the fight was going to be quick and easy. But we're moving along. The mainstream news will never give the Democrats credit for anything, so you should just cut them out. This alone will cheer you up remarkably.

[renie408]

77. Thanks. I can't understand people getting this depressed NOW

In 2004, yeah, I got it. The idea of four more years of Bush made me break down and cry. But now we have a good chance to get things changed in '08. And I am also annoyed by people expecting the 'Democratic' congress to have gotten everything changed in less than a year.

[tom_paine]

73. Never. It took Americans 4 1/2 years of blood and horror to defeat the Bushies in 1865.

It took the Founding Fathers of America almost SEVEN years to beat the Bushies of that time.

It took America, with the Bushies unwillingly dragged behind, fully untied to supply the industrial might and no small amount of human lives, 4 and 1/2 years of blood and horror to help defeat Hitler and HIS Bushies.

Never give up, not even when the boxcars start to roll. Nahh. Who am I kidding? The Bushies wouldn't use boxcars lined up on sidings to transport Bushies' Enemies of the State. That's bad PR, don't you see? Bushies can't make those kind of associations or the rebranding of totalitarianism may fail because people will notice.

I think fleets of schoolbuses may be used. They may leave them that bright yellow, non-threatening color.

[Me.]

75. Good That You Identify That The Only Thing That Has Changed

is the name. The danger for the democracy is fraught, as much as it was in 1865.

[tom_paine]

82. Hell, it wasn't even democracy then; it was still evolving

and the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the now-nearly-defunct Bill of Rights were among the achievements bought with all that horror of the aforementioned Civil War.

On a sidenote, how the architects of the 14th Amendment must be rolling their graves at the use to which it was put in installing Tyrant Bush into power.

People didn't even directly vote for their Senators in those days. But it was moving inthe direction Washington foresaw when he said:

As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.

[Me.]

93. How About Giving A Corporation Standing As A Citizen

but with, or so I read, more rights than the average Joe?

[Xenotime]

78. We have given up.

[Rockholm]

79. Never.

[sendero]

80. I'll never give up hope ...

... for the country. I have all but given up hope for 98% of the Republican party and 80% of Dems.

I've said this 100 times but why not again. The problem isn't just them, it is "us". Americans are the most ignorant people populating a modern country.

This "war" is in the process of breaking us, and our downfall will be economic, not "terror". The beginning of the end is already here and most Americans have NO CLUE. Americans are, collectively and individually, spending themselves into the poorhouse.

Once the standard of living of 80% of Americans drops precipitously, as it will and soon, there will be a huge hue and cry "how did this happen"?

The answer will be mostly Republican economic policies, but we put them there and we let them get away with it so if we are honest there will be mea culpas all around. It is also our insistence on SPENDING, SPENDING and more SPENDING, both at the personal and governmental level.

Once the shit has REALLY hit the fan, shit that affects MOST Americans not just the hapless and helpless stuck in Iraq, THEN things will start to change. Not before.

[_dynamicdems]

81. When we stop breathing. n/t

[johnaries]

83. NGU - Never Give Up.

[Orsino]

86. Part of me already has.

I think the disjoint between the ruling class and the workers in America may be insurmountable, and collapse inevitable. Maybe. I'll keep railing and voting against the GOP in hope of something better, but damn! The Democratic Party has caught the same disease, and shows no willingness to acknowledge it.

I want no part of violence, and have begun making plans to leave.

[seemslikeadream]

87. Give up?

Tell that to

[EFerrari]

88. Giving up is not an option. n/t

[AlCzervik]

90. we give up and they win, no way will i participate in them winning--ever.

[earth mom]

92. I envy those who moved overseas & escaped this madness.

But since I'm still here...HELL NO I'm not giving up!

:evilgrin:

[riverdeep]

94. There is only temporary escape.

There is no part of this globe anymore that you can run too. You might delay it, but the hand of unrestricted market capitalism will find you, privatize your water, raid your treasury, strip your resources, and pit you against another worker in some other part of the world to keep you in line. And then they'll get mean.

[earth mom]

112. I totally agree. nt

[Me.]

116. Or

spy on your every move

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1934838

[L. Coyote]

95. After they fold down the long digit on my cold, dead hand.

We are making great progress. All that 2006 lacked was a Presidential election. Imagine if there had been no change in Congress in 2006!

Don't fall for the fear-mongering propaganda over another war. It is just meant to make you want to give up,
and to distract you from the real issues, from reality. The revolt is on, and 2008 will show the degree of it.

[Me.]

96. Thank You n/t

[PDenton]

99. If Bush pulls off a war with Iran

I think it is time to hang in the towel, because America will have learned nothing. I mean, if Pelosi can't stop the tyrranical Madness of King George in such an egregious act, what is the point?

If that happens and you are lucky enough to have a college degree, I suggest heading to Canada. The rest of us will be fucked, but the United States will be in need of serious chastisement. Only international condemnation and the pain of loosing the knowledge class is going to stop these thugs.

[rucky]

100. Ask me again after we fund the surge for another year. n/t

[11 Bravo]

103. WE don't. YOU might. n/t

[AnotherGreenWorld]

104. Tomorrow at noon.

[Guaranteed]

106. "We" will never give up. Individuals will.

But this will never end, for either side. It's a story as old as history itself. We'll never win. But we'll never lose, either. It just goes back and forth, back and forth.

[treestar]

107. Never

[Jonathan Pollard]

108. Even after Hitler took power people didn't give up

It took 12 years and millions of dead, and it might take the same if Iran is attacked.

[alfredo]

111. Even beyond when the breath leaves our bodies.

I want to rot upwind from the RNC headquarters.

[lonestarnot]

113. NEVER!

[txwhitedove]

114. Hell, no! Never back down, never give up, live to fight another day.

[Jamastiene]

115. When Hell freezes over. In other words, fucking NEVER...

Never give up...

[Forkboy]

119. Never.What I long for can never be solved by one party.

So I just keep plugging away.

[Skittles]

120. we don't give up

only cowards give up