Who saw Ken Burns ' The War ' ? It shows the Common goal and reason we

[orpupilofnature57]

Lack NOW.

[rusty quoin]

1. I watched it. He can tell a story, and make you feel it.

[cloudbase]

2. As always, the people have to make the commitment

before sending in the troops.

[Kolesar]

3. Courage, perseverence, selflessness

Ken Burns spoke to an "Ideastream" Public Television audience before the release of The War.

He had harsh words for bush's implementation of war. Nobody is asked to sacrifice except for a minor portion of the population who have family in the military.

Courage, perseverence, selflessness

[rusty quoin]

4. Now profit and selfishness

[Kolesar]

5. I was up to my elbows in joint compound, listening to The War

The segment on the men captured in the Philipines made me cry. I knew the story but those individual stories horrified me. How can anybody be so cruel?

[rusty quoin]

6. The Bataan Death March.

It was horrible. MacArthur told the men to fight to the last man. The one man who experienced it said "If we knew ... I would have chosen death"

[misanthrope]

10. "Fight to the last man while I slink out of here under cover of darkness"...

...Never have liked MacArthur.

Carlson? Now THERE was an officer!

[Kolesar]

16. MacArthur had 9 hours notice of the Pearl Harbor strike and he did not react

His forces were obvious not at "general quarters" and the US aircraft were still sitting on the pavement in a densely packed and vulnerable configuration. I did not know that!

[misanthrope]

21. Ol' Doug always struck me as...

...a politician first and a warrior second, a pompous windbag more interested in his own fame than his men.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. "Ameican Ceasar" .... an affectation born of ego ..... and now seen as quite uncomplimentary.

A Patrician 'warrior' of the old school.

[misanthrope]

28. REALLY old school:...

...you lead your guys into the fray.

[Duppers]

25. he should have been tried for treason, the narcissistic asshole!

I learned lots of facts I did not know before.

Thank you Ken Burns and thanks to Ira, my friend at the sound board of brilliant series.

[Thothmes]

56. Treason

Ineptness and narcissism are not treasonable offenses per the Constitution of the United States. President Roosevelt ordered General MacArthur out of the Philippines.

[question everything]

12. I admit, I did not realize how unprepared

we were to battle in the Pacific.

One has to wonder, if we did go ahead and invaded France a year earlier, in 1943, would we have lost so many as we did in the Philippines?

[OzarkDem]

15. Good book on the subject

Ghost Soldiers

http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Soldiers-Forgotten-Dramatic-Mission/dp/0385495641

tells the story of the Bataan Death March and later imprisonment and rescue of those who survived it.

[Traveling_Home]

18. I lost a Great Uncle - he died just ....

as they reached the Camp at Cabanatuan - he's listed on the Memorial Plaque.

The raid that freed the remaining POWs just the basis of the movie "The Great Raid"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Raid

The Great Raid is a 2005 war film which tells the story of the January 1945 liberation of the Cabanatuan Prison Camp during World War II. It is directed by John Dahl and stars Benjamin Bratt, Joseph Fiennes, James Franco and Connie Nielsen with Filipino actor Cesar Montano. In the United States, it is rated R for strong war violence and brief language. The principal photography took place from July 4, to November 6, 2002, but its release was delayed several times from the original target of fall 2003.

The film opened in theaters across America on August 12, 2005, three days before the 60th anniversary of V-J Day.

The film has a notable difference in tone from other World War II films. Instead of a chaotic battle sequence (such as the one in Saving Private Ryan), it shows a carefully choreographed U.S. Army Rangers raid in the climactic scene, paralleling more closely the actual raid.

The real-life efforts of Filipino National Forces are also specifically highlighted, especially a courageous stand at a bridge that delayed Japanese reinforcements. These units fought alongside Americans against Japanese occupiers during the war.

Some critics complained that the Japanese soldiers were portrayed as uniformly brutal and inhumane. While it is true that there are no positive Japanese characters in the film, it should be noted that the film uses historical footage of the captives after they are freed, that inhumane treatment by Japanese troops of American POWs was widespread, in part because of Japanese occupation practices, and a Japanese cultural belief that it was shameful to surrender.

[rusty quoin]

19. I know that movie. I was glued to my seat. I don't know why it did not

get a better reception.

[likesmountains 52]

47. That book contained some of the most difficult to read descriptions of

Bataan and the POW camps that I have ever read...awesome book.

[Parche]

49. WAR

It was very good
Being a WWII Pacific history buff, I even learned a few things


Thank GOD that FDR had the foresight in planning, he started the construction of the
"Essex" class carriers when he did, and also the "Gato" class subs.

:hi:

[bdamomma]

57. that was a terrible ordeal.

[Arugula Latte]

45. If there had been a good reason to sacrifice it would be one thing

If Saddam and his troops were bombing Pearl Harbor or the Twin Towers, say, or storming the beaches at Cape Cod or Sausalito.

But the reasons for the illegal invasion and mass murder of Iraq was all smoke and mirrors from the get-go.

[CANDO]

7. I watched it.

You know when a war is unavoidable. You know when it means your nation's survival. Iraq doesn't meet the criteria. Never did. End of story. The right-wing wished with all their hearts that the country would rally around this invasion/occupation. But they simply didn't understand the dynamics of the political machinations that went on behind the curtains. Either it is a just war, or it isn't. And they haven't grasped that concept yet. They have yet to understand that Karl Rove and company tried to use war and death and occupation to try and further their ideological political agenda and the American people finally wised up about it.

[bdamomma]

59. hopefully the american people wised up about it, I just hope

we do not fall into the same trap about Iran.

[Sparkly]

8. Yes -- and it's repeating now, at least on my station... nt

[TwilightGardener]

9. Yep--just finished it a little while ago. I held it together until the Norah Jones

song towards the end, then I misted up. Looking forward to the next episode.

[misanthrope]

11. I thought the Norah Jones thing was the weakest part of it...

...It just seemed terribly maudlin and overstated. I've thought that since I saw the preview a few weeks ago that had that section in there.

The rest of it was superb.

[TwilightGardener]

17. "America, America...I gave my best to you..." set to scenes of soldiers

lying dead, half-buried in beach sand, or hobbling with the aid of other soldiers--if that's maudlin, then I guess I am a sucker for maudlin. The rest was superb as well.

[Lint Head]

13. Ken Burns does it again. The fact that so few young people

really realize what WWII was all about has created the situation that we are in now. Young people willing to fight and die for a dictator that has taken over our country. Ken Burns in a previous talked about a survey that showed most HS and college students thought Germany fought on our side in WWII. :dem:

[illinoisprogressive]

14. I did. another Ken Burns classic

[countmyvote4real]

20. I am watching it now.

We did some stupid shit then that we are doing again or about to.

Anyway, the objective POV is incredible as compiled with the archive footage and interviews. Great narrative and very timely. Plus, I love the music. I'll shut up now.

Sorry, can't stop. There is a whole more being compiled now with this Iraq invasion/occupation. I can't imagine that it could ever be compiled with this much glory. It can and it will be. Still, this is timeless piece.

[bdamomma]

58. and even then the public was not informed in how many troops were

dying, that woman from Alabama was saying each day men/boys were missing from their neighborhoods and learning late that they have died. Same shit today, we never seem to learn from our mistakes. Great documentary, we should know the past to confront the future.

[TygrBright]

22. I was shocked. Simply SHOCKED!! Do you realize, after Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt ASKED CONGRESS for..

...a declaration of war?

What was he, some kind of wussy?!? Couldn't he see that 12/7 CHANGED EVERYTHING?!? That with the country under threat, the Constitution had to be jettisoned, instantly??

AND he didn't tell everyone to calm down and go shopping on 12/8... what kind of leader was he?

No WONDER that War turned out so badly, with all the good guys losing and Yerp still in shambles two generations later and...

oh.

Never mind. Carry on.

sheepishly,
Bright

[onenote]

24. watched it with my uncle, who was in the Phillipines and New Guinea during the war

As he pointed out, 1000 WWII vets die every day. Hopefully, this documentary will help tell their stories in a way that hasn't previously been told.

[bdamomma]

60. my dad was stationed out in New Guinea.

[Duppers]

26. I watched it and I cannot describe my emotions

Burns is the best and most prolific documentarian ever---a brilliant man with a brilliant crew of people working with him.

My friend was sound editor for the series and my dad served in the Western European front. Of course I had to watch this series and I cried.

How much you want to bet the chicken hawks in DC didn't watch?!

[misanthrope]

27. Wow! Your friend did the sound editing for this?!...

...They did a phenomenal job "Foleying" all that stuff in and getting it just perfect. "Hats off" to the guy for an exemplary job.

[halobeam]

29. I taped it for another night. Did it mention the HMT Rohna??

1,115 men died and 900 survived when a German missile sunk it on November 26, 1943. The government finally acknowledged the ship and it's crew on Sept. 25, 2000 (H.CON.RES 408). They notified family members that they were MIA. They didn't want anyone to know Germany had this sophisticated a missile at the time.

It took FIFTY SEVEN YEARS for them to acknowledge these men. One was my great uncle.

I was just wondering if one WWII doc. will mention this. I am hoping here.

[EFerrari]

30. I'm sorry but the goal of killing more of them than they can kill

of us just does nothing for me.

Nothing at all. I'm watching it now. And, while I am deeply interested in history and grateful for the service of those people, the last thing we need right now is yet one more venue to glorify slaughter.

[PsN2Wind]

34. As usual you're right

In war we should keep accurate counts of the casualties on both sides and try to keep them equal, then when everyone is tired we'll just call it a draw. I guess in those less PC times, such as the film depicts, the nation felt that being attacked was cause enough for a violent rather than a measured response. Or would you have just apologized to the Japanese?
:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

37. What makes you think those "times" were different than these are?

Let me guess -- a brazilion films that idealize the war. Thanks for the illustration.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. What Is The Appropriate Response When Someone Invades Your Country?

eom

[EFerrari]

39. Self defense, of course.

But the moment we turn around and put a rosy glow on those events we're likely to wind up exactly where we are today, spending more on our military budget than the rest of the world put together and using gunboat diplomacy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Nazi Germany And Imperial Japan Represented A Unique Enemy

If we lost the Revolutionary War or the War of 1812 we would be Canada. If we lost WW ll we would have been like occupied Poland with mass deportations , cattle cars, and death camps...

[EFerrari]

42. Nowhere have I said we shouldn't have picked that fight. n/t

[LanternWaste]

50. There are no good deaths in war. There are no good wars.

And hence the unconscious duplicity on the part of most American students of WWII. We cheer, whoop, yell and holler about the righteousness of WWII, we pay lip service to the hell it must have been but we also get secret woodies when the newest WWI film comes out on a screen near you.

Yet men in Iraq are dying too-- and the deaths are just as ugly, the bodies are blown into just as many pieces; and at the end of the day, that's the only fundamental importance in any war. In every war.

There are no good deaths in war. There are no good wars. Only perspective and hindsight.

(Thanks for reminding me of that...)

[PsN2Wind]

44. If you can't discern the difference

between reacting to an attack from a country, that with its allies. is intent upon world domination, and a premptive attack against a country that poses no threat there is really nothing to discuss.

[EFerrari]

48. There really isn't anything to discuss because I wasn't

speaking to the rationale of that war but to its representation in our media. Something that seems to have escaped you entirely.

[goodgd_yall]

53. You are misunderstanding sfexpat's post.

I agree with him. Why turn a documentary about WWII into an opportunity to glorify it? As an interviewee said, it was a necessary war, not a good war. If you pay attention to the show, the message is clear that war is not a glorious endeavor.

No where did sfexpat say WWII should not have been fought. He said just the opposite.

[PsN2Wind]

54. Gee thanks for the explanation

However you should take one side or the other. This documentary cannot both "glorify" the war and show that war "is not a glorious endeavor". And my take on the war isn't John Wayne movies, it's first hand accounts from friends and relatives that were there.
sfexpat said that war shouldn't be about killing more of them than they kill of you. World War II wasn't a Little League game were you don't keep score but truly a war for the survival of the country. And no, war is not glorious, but in WWII a lot of people did perform glorious acts, whether the two of you would acknowledge them or not.

[goodgd_yall]

52. I get ya

I also am very interested in history. I like the way Burns goes into detail about events that I only hear about, for instance the battle at Guadalcanal. It brought to life the desperate situation of the American solders like I've never experienced. Burns was able to do the same with the Civil War series.

But, like you, I don't take it as a lesson to glorify WW II. It was, I believe, as stated on the show a "necessary war," but not a good or noble war---none are. And if that is what people are taking away from it, it's regrettable.

[pansypoo53219]

31. 1st of all SHARED SACRIFICE-a roosevelt faught

and mentioned-the japs were to this time undefeated, they THOUGHT they were invincible.
a bit like THE FUCKING USA NOW.

i read studs terkel's "the good war". that was the literary version of this.

i watch all that waste of lives, treasury, life period. and wonder if this stupid shit will ever end. been reading a set of 1891 encyclopedia britannicas. this shit never ends.
the bastards keep getting control of countries and making war. napoleon, the romans, the goths, the visagoths, the OSTRAGOTHS. and i am only up to B. also occupations never EVER work.


oh, right now, i don't know ANYBODY who is in iWaq. my 2 great uncles where in WW2(grandpa F was a telephone man essential service needed here, grandpa A drafted near the end and didn't go overseas was also in manufacture of engines). my grandma A LOST a cousin. my grandpa F's 4 cousins were in WW2. one in the pacific, one with nimitz. that's SIX.

iWaq is NOT WAR. it's bullshit.

[EFerrari]

32. Sacrifice is a word that living people use to soften the destruction

of people who aren't here to set them straight.

[misanthrope]

33. Burns and Novick had an obvious shot at our current rulers in there...

...when they discussed the fact FDR's son served in the South Pacific and asked no exception.

Burns mentioned a few weeks back that we have lost our sense of sacrifice in this country, that we are able to enjoy our status as the ultimate free agents--we eat alone, we work alone, we travel alone, we spend more time locked into our solitude of video screens and iPods--because others came together as a community and accomplished something immense.

Sounds to me like they're trying to tell us there's more to life than sheer consumption.

[BlueIris]

35. Proud to be the 5th rec! I saw it and floooooved it.

[Disturbed]

36. Yes, it was excelent.

What stuck me most was that FDR knew that the Japanese would attack when their oil resources were blocked yet he did not prepare the nation for the war that he knew was coming. Thousands of lives were lost because of that. Also, McArthur instantly reminded me of Betrayus. The personal stories were touching & they made me sad. War is so horrible and brutal and here we are involved with two and maybe yet another with Iran. I just shake my head in anger & sadness.

[Kolesar]

41. My impression was that Congress would not fund building up an army in 1939

Even after Hitler annexed Czechoslovakia and took half of Poland. Many Americans wanted nothing to do with another "Great War".

I see an analogy to the Gulf War and the Iraq War. The war on Iraq really did not end in 1992 when General Powell and President Bush withdrew the Army and Marines from Baghdad. There were problems left unresolved.

[bdamomma]

61. I was deeply enraged for the encampment of millions of Japanese people

who were rounded up. Singling out ethic classes of people again, we did or are doing the same thing with Muslim people after 9/11.

[DemReadingDU]

43. selling war bonds

Did anyone catch the part that war bonds had to be sold in order to finance the war?

I doubt that this government would get much participation if war bonds were sold today.

[orpupilofnature57]

46. Especially from the Scum making 400% off it!

[bdamomma]

62. Roosevelt did not say to the nation GO SHOPPING.

everyone sacrificed then, not only some, as it is today. Everyone pitched in with the war effort.

[slackmaster]

51. KPBS in San Diego played a 30-minute documentary on life her during the war

It focused extensively on the role of women in manufacturing. Very interesting stuff.

[Kolesar]

55. The second episode did not seem that profound

Rosie the riveter. Ball gunners. Been there, heard that.