If you want to know WHY the Republicans are successful, look no further than the moveon vote

[mudesi]

The Democrats continue to prove that they have no spine.

Is the moveon vote important? Will it have any impact on anything whatsoever? The answer is yes.

Because it was nothing but political posturing by the Republicans, and the Democrats (Not all of them, granted) caved. AGAIN. This could have been so easy. A simple "No" vote. But the Democrats, once again, have given the Republican spin machine ammunition. Whey they say Democrats have no leadership abilities, this is the kind of thing they use to fool the people.

Would it really have been so horrible to vote "no" on this one? What in the world is wrong with them? They never learn!

[Beetwasher]

1. Uhh, They're Successful?

Really? I guess '06 never happened. The Repub "permanent" majority was, relatively speaking, very shortlived. I wouldn't say they're successful. Not at all. And the next few election cycles will not be kind to them either.

[AndyA]

3. And yet, by and large, they are still getting what they want!

The definition of success has many variables.

[Cha]

5. Damn Straight on

that!

[Beetwasher]

8. Only If Self Inflicted Wounds Are What They Want

And fillibuster proof Dem majority, which is becoming more and more likely by the day.

[lateo]

2. What do you mean they never learn?

They learned a long time ago not to bite the hand that feeds them.

[Mythsaje]

4. "I'd like to upgrade my 'no' vote to 'hell, no.'"

Some of these people HAVE no leadership ability. I notice one of the "yes" votes is Webb, which, I suppose, was predictable.

MoveOn's ad may have been in poor taste, but it hardly required a vote of Congress to deal with it. If they'd have just ignored it, it would've faded into memory and been lost down the sinkhole. Instead, the Republicans flapped their arms and ranted about it and certain Dems fell in line either because they don't have the nerve for a fight, or because they think the "ass-kissing little chickenshit" deserves respect even if he IS an "ass-kissing little chickenshit."

[tekisui]

20. I think the Pukes want to only talk about Moveon.

because the *report* and the Fuhrer's speech were such blatant distortions, deceptions, lies and whitewashes that they are indefensible. Easier to divert attention than face the facts. But, Moveon is the biggest beneficiary of the diversion. People still are linking Petrayus with a lack of credibility, and money is flowing in to Moveon.

[bryant69]

6. I don't care whether it accomplishes anything - I want to see Democrats fighting

It doesn't matter what they are fighting for or over. Just fight!

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Richard Steele]

7. And why did they need to allow any vote at all? Why was time wasted on this nonsense?

Don't they have ANY more important things to deal with?

[jpgray]

9. They lost the majority in 06, are likely to lose the presidency.

Why attribute their past success to this single factor? Do you have any evidence to support that cause as being the single motivating factor? How do you rule out all other potential causes, such as their think-tank investments, media supremacy, etc.? Isn't this sort of mass human behavior dependent on many interdependent causes, and isn't isolating one and claiming it is -the- cause to make an argument rather prone to error and a dishonest way to make your point?

[mudesi]

13. They didn't lose the majority in 06

Because if they did, they wouldn't have been able to pass this ridiculous nonsense by a large factor. What is it going to take for you to see that a good portion of the Democrats have no business putting a "D" beside their name? What is it going to take for people to elect actual Democrats into the Democratic party?

I must be missing something. Because I look at Iraq and it seems like the war is still going on. I look at the white house and see that the president hasn't been impeached yet. Cave in after cave in after cave in...The Democrats did not win any majority in '06.

[jpgray]

17. We have a tiny majority that can't buck a filibuster. The behavior you want takes a larger majority

Three or four more of even the lousy Ds you so contemptuously refer to would have given us back habeas corpus and would make a spending bill with troop withdrawals possible. That's no bad thing, in my view. Our majority does not allow de facto rule because:

It's not so large as to override a block from the GOP

We don't have the presidency, so our votes are subject to veto.

Based on that, how can you expect total victory in hotly contested votes? Isn't that unreasonable?

[stranger81]

22. our majority doesn't allow de facto rule because our party

caves every time the going gets tough. Unless my memory is suddenly failing me, a tiny majority was all it took for the repugs to win one hotly contested vote after another prior to '06 -- and now the repugs are still winning with a minority.

Like Randi says, gutless and spineless. That's why our party is losing. Not because there aren't more dems, but because the democratic representatives we have are fucking useless.

[fasttense]

10. Even if you don't agree with the moveon ad, why

would you even allow this to come to a vote and get those obviously very liberal members of moveon mad at you? Why even risk it? What is it that the Dems don't understand about support your base?

[OwnedByFerrets]

11. And when questioned on the reason WHY they voted

no, all they had to say was " I believe in the First Admendment of the U.S. Constitution, unlike my friends on the other side of the aisle who voted for this stifling of free speech.

[fasttense]

15. Exactly right OwnedByFerrets.

It stifles free speech and needlessly gets your base angry with you. A very dumb move by our Democratic majority.

[OwnedByFerrets]

18. One of many my friend...nt

[stranger81]

12. What I've learned about politics from these dems . . . .

If the repugs have the majority (even by one vote), our party leaders say they're powerless to do anything without a majority behind them and act accordingly.

If our party is the majority (by five or so votes), our party leaders say they're powerless to act in the face of a threatened minority filibuster and act accordingly.

When we're the minority we lose, and now, when we're the majority -- we lose. IMHO, it's high time to throw these do-nothings out of office and replace them with some fucking fighters.

[mdmc]

14. The GOP hates moveon - anti-war radicals love moveon

The Dems are somewhere inbetween....mushy...

[tnlurker]

16. Why couldn't some Dem Senator

Put a secret hold on this bill like the Rrepublicans have on 85 Democratic bills?

[The Stranger]

19. Ralph Nader was right.

The Democrats, once elected, act like Republicans.

[KharmaTrain]

21. And Wanna Bet MoveOn's Cash Registers Have Run Louldy...

I've made several donations over the past week and a half and I see many others here did as well. So who was the loser here? MoveOn comes out stronger and more potent...a bigger right wing boogie man than ever before. If you think this is a loss, you're not really seeing the playing field.