Is it discrimination to point out a rival for a promotion doesn't have papers?

[thegreatcause2]

nt

[annarbor]

1. What kind of papers?

Immigration papers? College transcripts? Rolling papers?

How in the world would you know for sure what their status was?

Ann Arbor

[thegreatcause2]

5. immigration papers

nt

[txaslftist]

2. Can't roll a blunt without papers.

[poverlay]

7. Yeah, I was going to say... Priorities. You'd be remiss if you didn't point that out!...nt

[txaslftist]

9. You think anyone really wants to swap spit off a shared bong?

Gotta have your papers.

It's the boy scout motto. Be prepared.

[youthere]

18. Semper Paratus. Always prepared. Also the Coast Guard motto.

[txaslftist]

20. That's all I'm saying.

Burning marijuana smells suspiciously like ... freedom.

[Romulox]

40. A blunt is rolled in a cigar rapper (tobacco leaf), not paper...nt

[Crabby Appleton]

47. How 'bout a fatty then? nt

[BOSSHOG]

3. I think the better tact would be to

emphasize your credentials if given the opportunity especially if you have a qualification in writing that someone else up for the job does not have, ensure that your quals are highligted. I suspect a discerning employer would know who is and is not qualified if qualifications are the basis for hiring, firing or promoting.

[Romulox]

41. Legal resident is a threshhold qualification for ANY job in the US...nt

[MissB]

4. Show what you have, not what your rival doesn't have.

And I don't mean show them your "papers" whatever those are. Are we talking purebred dogs here?

[LanternWaste]

6. If I have to resort to...

If I have to resort to advertising my opponents weaknesses rather than my own strengths to get a promotion, it probably means I don't have many strengths of my own...

But then again, I'm kind of old-fashioned and feel people should move up through their own work.

[thegreatcause2]

10. but is that fair

that as a legal citizen, I should not have preference over an illegal alien? Am I being an intolerant bigot? I don't think so.

[LanternWaste]

24. I made no mention of immigration status

I made no mention of immigration status, so to infer anything close to bigotry from what I posted is simply reaching for insults that don't exist. I'd simply pose the question to myself, 'who does the better job?'.

If however, you're simply fishing for a conversation of immigrant status, why not simply come out and say so?

[thegreatcause2]

27. I just want to know if I am assertive on this matter

am I being insensitive and hurtful to this person?

[LanternWaste]

35. "Assertive"? Nice use of the word for a positive spin...

"Assertive"? Nice use of the word for a positive spin.

If you rely on his/her shortcomings rather than your own strengths to get the position, then yes-- you are being hurtful and insensitive (and probably selling yourself short... but that's another conversation).

I was in competition for my current job two years ago. I knew the young lady who was also up for it smoked pot (not only against the law, but also a direct violation of company policy). I relied on my strengths relevant to the position, rather than on her weaknesses not relevant to the positions, and never brought it up. For me to have done that would have been in bad form.

But I also realize that honor is not a business practice for most people. But to be honest, I really think you're tap dancing around the issue you really want to talk about...

[qazplm]

8. why would it be?

Although I would need more information on what exactly you mean by immigration papers?

Are you saying he is illegal? Is not a citizen? Doesn't have a green card, what exactly?

If illegal, then I say why should he get the job over you?

If a permanent resident or otherwise here legally, well, that's a different story and not sure that really gets you anything or is fair per se.

[thegreatcause2]

11. this person has no green card or any legal status

nt

[annarbor]

13. Why are you asking us?

Just curious....
Why don't you provide more information..What exactly is the position?

[IndianaJones]

12. are your papers in order? nt.

[thegreatcause2]

29. yes

I have a birth certificate and valid social security #.

[AlCzervik]

14. so you didn't care about your co workers immigration status until they became

a rival?

[thegreatcause2]

32. I work in the restaurant industry

it is built on the hard work of illegal immigrants. That is just the way it is. I can't change that.

[AlCzervik]

49. that doesn't answer the question at all.

[gollygee]

15. The fact that you didn't care about it till now might be

Were not aware of your rival's status before he/she became a rival?

[thegreatcause2]

31. yes, I knew before the job opening

nt

[ecstatic]

16. Does s/he perform the job better than you do? nt

[thegreatcause2]

30. actually, no

nt

[TahitiNut]

17. Nope.

Merely questionable timing ... but that's a separate issue. :shrug:

People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons, do the wrong thing for the right reasons, do the right thing for the right reasons, and fuck it up totally.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. legal discrimination? no.

however, company may be willing to sponsor.

[txaslftist]

21. Discrimination?

Naw. It's winning. It's a dog-eat-dog world, and you gotta be a bigger dog. You think your rival would hesitate to tell the boss about a felony conviction you had?

Besides, whomever is doing the promoting might want to know there's a potential problem with your rival.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. If i were the boss, it would look to me like you were trying to

blackmail me for hiring illegals.

That would really piss me off.

[Dora]

23. No, it's not. It's trying to make yourself look better by pointing out someone else's flaws.

It's small-minded.

[zbdent]

25. rather interesting dilemma ... so you're saying that your employer

has an illegal immigrant working for them?

[thegreatcause2]

33. yes

nt

[Igel]

26. I'd suggest that the employer verify all the claims

made in a resume, that there are far too many people lying in order to gain advantage ... and that it can be a problem down the road.

Point out the case of the MIT dean, IIRC, who hadn't finished college but who put falsehoods on her resume in order to advance in the hierarchy, and say that this can apply to nearly anybody making nearly any claim concerning employment requirements. And it's damned embarrassing when the claims turn out to be false.

Then hand in the kind of documentation you think the employer *should* have requested, with no further comment.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Pretty much.

Does his or her lack of papers have anything to do with him or her doing the job better than you? Probably not.

discriminate- 1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit

[Cleita]

34. A post with practically no information.

You really need to do better even if your intent is to start a flame war.

[thegreatcause2]

36. I just want feedback

I don't want to stir any pots.

[Cleita]

37. Feedback for what?

You don't give any information. You just assume that we are going to guess about what kind of papers, what kind of job and what kind of promotion by filling in the blanks. Also, if it is about an immigrant who doesn't have a green card, I'm sure the employer knows that. So until you are more specific, I don't see how anyone can answer your post.

[Evoman]

38. Answer:

The only relevant question here is this: would you be happy with YOURSELF if you won in this manner? If you would be, none of us can stop you....do it. If you wouldn't, then go with your heart.

I think the choice to not report him would be more moral and ethical.

[onethatcares]

39. so you're gonna play the "no papers" card ?

It's not discrimination, it's tattling, or snitching.

[CreekDog]

48. Tattling or snitching can be right or wrong

[murloc]

42. To point out a criminal is hardly discrimination

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. if i was your boss, i wouldnt promote you because someone else doesnt have papers

i would hire some who isnt petty for the job

[Johonny]

44. answer

No it's not discrimination to point out your rival doesn't have their proper immigration papers. It's a basic fact for basis employment that you have that your rival lacks. It also sounds like a bad idea. A) your employer already knows this B) apparently doesn't care C) may feel your reiterating the fact is more blackmail than a gentle suggestion of a major quality you have.

[murloc]

46. Thats a good point.

Chances are the employer already knows the rival is illegal and is ignoring the fact. Pointing this out may make the employer uncomfortable enough to fire the person who points it out.

Morally, the right thing to do is to call out the criminal, but it may very well cost you your job.

[BlooInBloo]

45. Maybe not. It just be being a fucking asshole....

EDIT: If I were the boss I'd (a) try to work with the employee to get him/her legal, maybe letting him/her go, all else failing, and (b) Immediately fire the person who torpedoed the no-papers person.

[Mr. Ected]

50. Nothing Wrong With Outting An Illegal...

You may be saving your company a lot of money in penalties for failing to document their employees properly.

But outting them at this time for this reason seems self-serving and cowardly. Then again, the working world is based on a form of Darwinism. Hard to say what's right and wrong, with the word illegal intertwined in the discussion.

[BlooInBloo]

51. No, it's not hard. Amoral people just say it is to cover their asses.

[Mr. Ected]

53. You'd Be Correct, If We Lived In a Nation of Morals

Rather than a nation of laws.

[MountainLaurel]

52. How do you know? n/t