Please explain to a Canadian why Hilary is considered unelectable.

[glarius]

I keep hearing this from political commentators on CNN and other places. Even some of those speaking for the Democratic Party seem to more or less agree. They all say she is devisive and unlikeable etc. I have seen her several times on Letterman and to me she comes across as a likeable person with a good sense of humour, and she has a great laugh. And then the last couple of days I have heard a couple of times on CNN, when they were talking about Oprah Winfrey's shindig to raise money for Obama, that according to a recent Gallup poll Oprah was the 2nd most admired woman in America and No. one is Hilary Clinton.
None of this adds up for me. :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

1. Bill's "penis" impeachment -- and DLC connections -- pro-War in Iraq ---

[Poll_Blind]

2. I think Hillary Clinton is a very strong individual who is also personable, witty...

...intelligent, savvy, and in bed with the same corporations who have the pink slips for most, if not all, of the Bush administration.

  Would I go out for a beer with her? Yes. Would I invite her to a dinner party? Absolutely. Do I admire her, not just as a woman who has overcome a huge smear machine, but as an individual who has achieved a great deal? Yes.

  Do I trust her to safeguard my liberties, my health and help remove the yoke which large corporations have legislatively lowered onto all of our collective necks? NO.

  So that's it. It's the answer I give to Canadians, Frenchmen, Russians, the occasional curious Hutu tribesman (or woman) and pretty much everyone else.

PB

[The Wielding Truth]

18. yep......all that --- but she fell for the * Iraq war lies....

It's hard to trust someone so gullible with your country and the world after the horrible experience we have with these greedy corporate cons.

[never_get_over_it]

22. I don't think she fell for the Iraq lies

I think she fell for the political advisers who told her it would be bad for her political future to vote against IWR - probably same advisers who advised Kerry and Edwards and others....and you know if I'm right that is worse for me than being gullible....at least Kerry and Edwards have admitted they were wrong - if I'm not mistaken Hillary still has not - which is also a bit concerning that she like GWB can not admit a mistake....

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. One or the other, and I can't decide which is worse.

Neither is good.

[leftchick]

42. I agree with you

I also think the AIPAC influence on her foreign policiy views has a lot to do with it as well. Hell, she is ready to go after Iran! How is that different from a neocon?

[never_get_over_it]

44. So agree with you

But the ONLY post I ever had deleted at DU was at the time of the IWR vote and it involved the influence you speak of - so I stay far away from that topic now.....at least on DU

[donheld]

3. I will do no such thing

Stop listening to "CNN and other places" crap and Hillary isn't perfect but she's very electable.

[Tesha]

43. Well, at least until Election Day when she'll suddenly stop being "electable". (NT)

> Hillary isn't perfect but she's very electable.

Well, at least until Election Day when she'll
suddenly stop being "electable", and a bunch of
the usual party machine Democrats will be left
wondering "Wha' happened???", much as they ended
up doing in 2004 when Mr. Electable lost his
election to the *WORST PRESIDENT EVER*.

Tesha

[Canuckistanian]

4. I don't think many around here are making that claim

And the media are certainly not portraying her as unelectable.

And in terms of national polling, she seems to be well-respected, trusted, and always at the top of the poll along with Obama.

But for some dedicated progressives, Clinton is seen as somewhat disappointing (to put it mildly). From her viewpoint on lobbyists (she seems to have no problem with them) to Rupert Murdoch's support, she's not winning many friends among those who desire more radical change.

Unelectable? No. But will she be able to make the tough decisions to undo 8 years of the * kleptocracy?

Some doubt it.

[glarius]

6. The media are saying she will probably get the nomination but that she

is unlikeable and probably unelectable by the general public. That has be said quite a bit on TV.

[Canuckistanian]

17. Don't fall for the spin

She's either popular or she's totally unelectable. They can't have it both ways.

Besides, her popularity isn't just confined to liberals or self-identified Democrats. If she wins the nomination, she'll win the presidency.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. I don't see the popularity.

She has big money behind her - not the grassroots.

I think a lot of the polls are worded in such a way as to boost her - direct head to head with republican candidates show her winning, but others against those same candidates win by more. Progressives are split between Obama, Edwards and Kucinich, while DLCers choose between Hillary and Richardson - and who is going to support the 1 percenter? Anything that Richards has, Hillary has, and she has the support of the DLC establishment - Richardson actually wants to see our troops out of Iraq, making him almost a progressive.

I think if the only choice was Hillary or Obama, or Hillary or Edwards, or even Hillary or Kucinich, she would not fare nearly so well.

And who else is she popular with, other than the neocons? Independents favor Edwards or Obama, lefties favor Kucinich, the nutroots republicans would eat ground glass before voting for her.

Explain it.

[Canuckistanian]

39. Here's something I found

It's from Aug. 24th, so I suppose it's current enough. Interestingly, she polls at 88% favorable among Democratic voters. That surprised me.

But she has high and solid unfavorable rating as well. That would be the grassroots. Very polarizing.

Yesterday's Pew poll gives an interesting perspective on the question of Hillary Clinton's electability. It turns out that her favorable rating among all voters is in statistically identical to Rudy Giuliani's — in fact, it's nominally one point higher. Hillary gets a 55% approval rating, with 21 points of that very favorable, compared to Rudy's 54% favorable, with only 12% very favorable. Not bad for a woman who's been through multiple national campaigns worth of dirt, to be just as liked, and more intensely liked, as "America's Mayor."

On the other hand, Hillary's reputation for being a polarizing figure also has a lot of evidence to back it up. Hillary's unfavorables are at 39%, with 21 points very unfavorable, compared to Rudy's much better 28%, with nine points very unfavorable. Hillary has the highest favorables among all the presidential candidates, while she also has the highest unfavorables. But there's one thing America's Mayor has over Hillary: He hasn't been through the ringer like she has.

So does this matter? If 39% of the people hate Hillary, that just means that after years of getting to know her, a strong minority don't intend to vote her — and a majority are within her grasp. What's new?

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/aug/23/poll_hillarys_favorables_one_point_higher_than_rudy

Link to Pew Poll:
http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/350.pdf

[Truth2Tell]

23. Well, I've seen quite a few around here make that claim,

including me. And I believe it.

She has aligned her own planets perfectly for a loss. She has managed to alienate both the entire right wing and a ton of the progressive left. It's a two-fer. Maybe a shit-load of corporate money and lots of love from her boy Rupert Murdoch will be able to turn the tide and re-make Hillary in the GE. But I doubt it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. A Ton Of People Love Hillary And She Is Very Electable. Don't Let The Media Or Others Fool You.

Personally I like her quite a bit and think she has a good sense of humor as well. She needs to work on her delivery a bit but she has definitely controlled her ability to sound shrieky far more than she used to, which is a good thing. I know quite a few people who like her a lot.

[emilyg]

12. I sure do.

[mwb970]

54. She also has the "competence thing" down.

In every debate I've seen she has come across as coolly professional, with easily detectable depth on every issue. She inspires confidence in those with open minds.

[fedupfisherman]

7. She does rile up the right wing............

much more so than say Obama or Kucinich.

[jobycom]

8. It's basic PR work.

The Republicans manipulate the media until everyone "knows" that Clinton is unelectable, just as they "knew" that Gore was a delusional liar.

She's quite electable. As you say, she's intelligent, likable, humorous, and everything else you could want in a candidate.

But the Republicans have one basic strategy, taken straight from Sun Tsu: Turn your opponent's strength into their greatest weakness. With Bill Clinton, his greatest strength was his competence, so they created the "slick" meme, to make people think that the competence was fake. With Gore, his tremendous record of foresight and achievement were turned into jokes about him "inventing the Internet" and "discovering Love Canal." With Kerry, his war heroism was turned into selfish opportunism. The Republicans create false personas for their opponents, so that whenever their opponent tries to play up their greatest strength, the people laugh and think of it as a weakness.

They are doing the same thing to Clinton, and it's being bought not just by mainstream America, but by the very liberals who should be her core supporters. If she pours on the charm, they make people think she is disingenuous. If she shows reason and experience on an issue, they make people think she is "triangulating." If she takes a liberal position, they make people think she is just trying to fool liberals since she is really a conservative.

She's very electable. That's why they work so hard on creating the "unelectable" meme. And people will fall for it, as they fell for the lies about Gore and Kerry and Bill Clinton and Ann Richards and Ralph Yarborough (1970), and Ron Kirk (Texas candidate for Senate), and Max Cleland... Funny thing is, after the Democrats are defeated, everyone can see it. If Clinton loses, she will again become a liberal hero and martyr, as Gore and Kerry did. But until then, the Republican memes will shape even Democratic opinions of her.

It's frustrating to watch. It's like watching America be lied into a second war with Iraq, after watching them get lied into the first war with Iraq. Once you see it happening, it's obvious, and it's even more infuriating that others don't understand.

[DemBones DemBones]

27. A couple of quibbles with your analysis. . .

"She's very electable. That's why they work so hard on creating the "unelectable" meme. And people will fall for it, as they fell for the lies about Gore and Kerry and Bill Clinton and Ann Richards and Ralph Yarborough (1970), and Ron Kirk (Texas candidate for Senate), and Max Cleland... "

Max Cleland lost because GA went, statewide, to computerized voting machines that year. He and Gov. Roy Barnes (D) were ahead in the polls and Sonny Perdue (R) was downright surprised to find that he'd been "elected" governor. The whole damned Bush family made trips to GA to campaign for Saxby Shameless but I still think the voting machines were what "defeated" Cleland and Barnes, and Bob Barr (R) who strongly opposed the PATRIOT Act, thereby pissing off those with whom you may not disagree.

"Funny thing is, after the Democrats are defeated, everyone can see it. If Clinton loses, she will again become a liberal hero and martyr, as Gore and Kerry did. But until then, the Republican memes will shape even Democratic opinions of her."

I know the right wing has been after Hillary for years but I won't admire her if she gets the nomination and loses the election. I'll be disgusted that the Dems didn't pick a better nominee.

I admire Gore because of the way he conducted himself after the 2000 election, before SCOTUS gave it to Bush, and afterwards.

I do not admire Kerry because he said he "had our backs" and then folded much earlier than he had to. He was no martyr, just a quitter. Perhaps it was all a set-up after all, one Bonesman helping another stay in office.

[jobycom]

34. Cleland may or may not have lost due to rigged machines, but he was still slandered

by turning his strongest attributes into weaknesses.

It doesn't take computerized voting to rig an election. We saw that in Florida in 2000. It was also done to Ralph Yarborough for governor in Texas in 56, and for LBJ in one of his infamous elections (I'm sticking to Texans because that's what I know--I'm sure it's been done in every state). So it's quite possible. On the other hand, almost every losing candidate since democracy was invented has claimed election fraud--just like most football games are lost because of "bad calls." Sometimes it's true, other times it's just easier than admitting we lost. I don't know enough about the Georgia elections to know one way or the other.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. That's the wonder of triangulating.

She can say anything to anybody and get kudos for it from her fans - but I want to know what she really believes.

She is unelectable for this very reason. The right has heard her liberal memes, and believe that. The left see her record on NAFTA, on the war, her collecting donations from right wing and corporatist donors, and believe that.

Nobody has any reason to trust her. She's lost the left. She's lost the right. The independents will just throw up their hands and stay home by election day.

Her nomination will result in the greatest landslide against the Dems since McGovern.

[jobycom]

35. That's the wonder of the Republican PR machine

that you didn't even put a sarcasm smilie there.

[CTyankee]

46. You say she's "lost the left and lost the right." This is what I don't understand!

How can this be? It makes no sense. I read these statements daily on DU and I'm not getting the paradox.

It seems to me that if she is too left for the right and too right for the left, that puts her in the middle. Where do you think most American voters are?

Hell, I'm supporting Edwards because I cherish what he is trying to do. But all this fascist stuff about Hillary is getting crazy. We are going to be disappointed in whoever is elected president, count on it. So if Hillary is our nominee, I will vote for her (I might volunteer for her campaign just to keep another Republican from getting in).

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. Why on earth should liberals be her core supporters?

Because liberals like NAFTA so much?
Rupert Murdoch?
The war in Iraq?
Insurance companies?
Outsourcing to Asia?
The DLC?

Why would liberals EVER support her? Because she's not as republican as the republicans?

I am sick to death of voting AGAINST the other side. I want to vote FOR my side.

[jobycom]

53. You left off killing baby kittens.

Look, this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. She's a liberal. Anyone who's actually been in office will have votes all over the place. Maybe she does like NAFTA. Frankly, I like NAFTA, and consider it a liberal plan, though it's being mismanaged now. Murdoch--she takes money where it's offered. That's like complaining that Edwards got rich from lawsuits. The war in Iraq? She never supported that--at most she supported the troops. Yeah, I know you believe otherwise, but that's my point. The Republicans have twisted her record to make you believe otherwise.

On and on. I've been on DU a long time, I've watched how these stories got started on her. I'll give one example--the flag burning issue. She was a fierce opponent of the flag burning amendment, which should have earned her praise from liberals. However, one day the post appeared on DU that Hillary was co-sponsoirng a ban on flag burning. Within minutes, the thread was flaming away, with all the "liberals" screaming that she had sold out and triangulated and DLCed and all the other idiocy some people spout. The couple of people who actually looked at the thread and pointed out the facts were shouted down, the way you are trying to shout people down. Now, the story itself in that post was linked to Drudge's homepage, and the wording was his wording. Others quickly found links to back up Drudge--on Newsmax.

Here's the real story. Clinton was one of over a dozen co-sponsors on that bill, including Barbara Boxer. Every single co-sponsor was an outspoken opponent of the flag burning amendment. That alone should have made people wonder what was going on, but no, there was a feeding frenzy going on. Everyone just KNEW what Hillary was up to--just as they KNEW that Gore had claimed he invented to Internet, and on and on.

The bill itself did not burn flag burning, as Drudge and Newsmax had claimed, and it wasn't an attempt to triangulate, as Drudge and Newsmax had claimed, and it wasn't any form of sellout on Clinton's or Boxer's or Byrd's part. It was a simple bill to counter charges the Republicans had been raising. Their two biggest arguments for a flag burning amendment were: first, that the SCOTUS ruling meant that you couldn't even protect flags that were on public or private property, so an amendment was needed so states could pass laws protecting, for instance, the flags on the Washington Monument, and second, that there laws against burning crosses on people's front lawns to prevent intimidation, and the SCOTUS ruling meant you couldn't pass such laws against flag burning. So, a dozen or so opponents of the flag burning amendment, Clinton and Boxer included, co-sponsored a bill to prove you could, to destroy the Republican argument.

Those were the facts, but to many so-called liberals chose to believe Drudge and Newsmax instead.

The same basic story is true of most of the other issues you name, and some you don't. The IWR, Murdoch, outsourcing, troop funding, and on and on.

You've bought the lies. You believe the crap. Just like the people who chose Nader over Gore, just like those who always empower the Republican Party by buying their shit and undermining our own party. Clinton is a liberal. You've been duped. That's the whole story.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Way back when Bill was running for Prez...

the whispering started about Hillary the Hose, or whatever. She wasn't ladylike, she was too tough, she was a bitch... Got so bad that she went so far as to make her cookie recipe public, just so people knew she really did "wifey" things and wouldn't be an unfeminine embarassment as First Lady.

Load of crap, of course, and the "Right Wing Smear Machine" that doesn't exist was behind every bit of it. Got macho men all het up about some tough broad telling the Prez what to do and good Republican ladies who never wear white shoes after Memorial Day shusshing all day long about women who work in tough jobs like Hillary did.

Geez, it's not like Elizabeth Dole had a cookie recipe, is it? Was her resume any less than Hillary's? But, I digress...

Ultimately, Hillary had to be trashed because some Republicans still in power remembered bitterly that on her resume was that bit about being an attorney for the Nixon Impeachment committee. Bill and Hillary must pay the price for that-- Bill gets impeached himself and HIllary gets demonized.

So, now that she's running for President herself, all those years of villifying her are paying off for the bad guys.

[Laurier]

10. I like Hillary but

I don't think that the collective American public is ready to elect a female president. Personally, I would vote for her in an instant, but as much as I hate to say it, I don't think that a majority of the populace is quite ready to.

[Wiley50]

11. One Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words

[Balbus]

41. It sure is!

I'm just at a loss at which 1000 words your picture is referring to. :shrug:

[leftchick]

48. make that two....

So much for that vast right wing conspiracy eh?

[sandnsea]

13. Republicans are so discouraged

and have such a crappy field, they will probably stay home. But Hillary, now that would bring them out in droves, an opportunity to vote against the Clenis again. The only real opportunity the have to win, at this point.

[illinoisprogressive]

14. Hillary is not someone who real democrats trust. She's an opportunist

she is a corporate shill and has deals going with outsourcing and is a favorite of the neocons.
She pretty much stood by Bush's policies until this year, when suddenly she was against them. She is buddies with Rupert Murdoch and co. She is DLC. She is a republican with a d after her name.
She is known to threaten or bride people for endorsements. Threaten for donations. Thug tactics.
this is just some of the many troubling things about Hillary.

[never_get_over_it]

15. I don't know if she is unelectable or not

but I tend to think she is for the following reasons:

I sense that some in the base don't like her - think she is repunk Lite - many of these folks might not vote - I'm one of those folks but I will vote for her because of the Supreme Court but I would not actively work for her election - and I would for ANY of the other candidates

Some women don't like her because she didn't dump Bill when he cheated

Some on the right REALLY HATE her and they will flock to the polls to vote against her

Some won't vote for any woman - I actually believe that more would vote for a black man before they would vote for ANY woman - I think that is particularly true of older folks - both men and women and I think they tend to vote in higher numbers

I'm also concerned that she does and has gotten so much attention from MSM - like they are pushing her on us as the inevitable nominee - two reasons for that - one they think she is unelectable - OR they believe as I do there will be very little change if she is elected - which of course is exactly what the corporations want....

All that being said she has obviously HUGE name recognition and a SHIT LOAD of money so who knows

[gateley]

19. I'm a fairly recent transplant to the South (NC)

and there is not one woman I have met who would vote for Clinton. They can't get past that "I didn't stay home and bake cookies" -- or whatever she said -- statement. That alone is enough to cruicfy her down here. It's frightening.

[DemBones DemBones]

26. She actually said something like "I'm not some little Tammy Wynette

"Stand By Your Man" type who stays home and bakes cookies,"

thereby insulting Tammy Wynette, country music fans, stay-at-home mothers, women who stand by their men and women who bake cookies in one sentence.

It was not her finest moment.

The ultimate irony was that she did stand by her man, only to learn that he'd lied his ass off to her.

If she'd divorced him, she might get more respect from some people but a lot of women will never forgive her for that comment because, whatever her intent, it sounded like she was a hard-core feminist who looked down on women who stayed home and raised their children.

[ProudDad]

16. She isn't "unelectable"

No Democrat is "unelectable" in '08 ('cept maybe Gravel)

IMHO, She's the corporate candidate so she SHOULDN'T be elected when there are other REAL democrats available...

[JDPriestly]

20. About 54% of the voters do not like Hillary -- at all.

So, while many people like her, and while she has the experience and intelligence to qualify as president, she is unlikely to be elected. Her negatives, meaning the percentage of people who when polled say they do not like her, are unlikely to get better. That is because the right-wing politicians and media spent years and years creating the myth that she is an evil person. I have an acquaintance a lovely woman in her late 50s or early 60s who seriously told me that the Clinton's have killed many people. That is an absurd lie. Only a very ignorant person would believe it. But she does. The Whitewater "scandal" (the accusations were totally without any evidentiary basis) and all sorts of lies have been bandied about so much that poor Hillary could not begin to disprove them. The slander and libel against the Clintons is so horrible that it ought to be considered a crime. But that is the way it is. And thanks to the lies Hillary is probably unelectable. There are just too many Americans who have been brainwashed by the extreme right-wing in America to hate the Clintons. It is a horrible fact, but it is a fact that Hillary is going to have to deal with.

It is also true that Hillary is too right-wing for many of us Democrats. But that would probably not interfere with her being elected if she could do something about her huge overall negatives.

[DemBones DemBones]

24. You know that Jerry Falwell sold a videotape accusing the

Clintons of murder, don't you? I saw the tv ads of him peddling it. I don't know why they didn't sue him for libel. It made me wonder if he really had something on them.

[JDPriestly]

36. The law imposes a very high legal standard on public figures

who sue for libel or slander. It is hard for them to win. That is why public figures like the Clintons are reluctant to sue. The threshold for proving libel or slander in such suits is high for public figures because there is a conflict between the public figure's right to sue for libel or slander and the person being sued's First Amendment right to criticize, characterize, report on, talk about the public figure. A lot of our discussion about Bush on this website would be impossible if it were not for the high standard that Bush would have to meet if he were to sue one of us. The Clintons should take anyone to court who states that they murdered someone. That is, IMO, just too outrageously libelous. They should have sued Falwell if he said they murdered someone.

[DemBones DemBones]

21. I think that many Americans will not vote for a woman,

any woman, no matter how much we'd like to think that they will.

I also think the GOP believes they can beat Hillary easily.

Polls that say Hillary is the "Most Admired Woman in America" don't mean much, IMO. Laura Bush has been ranked high in those polls, too, and the public really see very little of her, know very little about her.

I don't dislike Hillary as a person, I dislike her politics. She's intelligent, she's just too far to the right for me. I want a change.

Personally, I think that if she were president, Hillary would not deviate much from the course that Bush has set. Continued war, continued restriction of our civil liberties ("to protect us against terrorism," of course), continued corporatism, continued globalization, meaning more and more U.S. jobs being outsourced or being done by foreign nationals allowed into the U.S. on special work visas to take the jobs of Americans at lower salaries than the Americans were receiving.

Someone posted today that a female co-worker said she would never vote for Hillary because she didn't throw Bill out after the Monica affair; she thought it showed Hillary has no character. I don't know how many people hold that opinion but I've heard that said by other women.

Hillary was publicly humiliated because he lied to her and she went on national television and defended him. It wasn't his first affair, either. It makes people think she stayed with him for political reasons only.

Marriages of convenience have always existed but I think this is something that turns many people against Hillary. I wonder how things would have gone for her politically if she had divorced him. It's hard to say whether he's a bigger asset or liability to her.

[melody]

25. Domesticated primates want Alpha males to lead them

Kim Campbell came into the PM office under similar circumstances to the ones Hillary now has, which means (barring
some horrific GOP false flag event, I think Hillary will win if she gets the nomination). I used to think she was
unelectable. At this point, Hillary could handily beat ALL the GOP challengers. The polling trends are in her
direction.

The GOP nutjobs hate her for the usual reasons -- she's a strong woman. They want to tear her down and humiliate her.

The left finds her too conservative -- I do also just as I did her husband. That said, in the general election, I'd
vote for Hillary (as I voted for Bill) over any of the monsters who call themselves "Republicans".

[BenDavid]

28. Many folks in here repeat that over and

over again. Well hell! Each time I hear a talk radio Nazi say "She can't win," it means they're afraid of her. Talk radio whores are saying great things about Obama, which should make you wonder.Faux news runs negatives against HRC and positives for Obama. CNN runs positive segments on Obama and negatives against HRC, but each time they show the polls, HRC is either gained more distance between herself and Obama and Edwards, or her negatives are coming down as her favorability is going up. Later on this.

I have nothing bad to say about Obama. If Obama wins - whoever wins the Democratic nomination, I'm behind him/her all the way. (That's a sentence you won't hear from most lefty web sites and more so in here) But seriously, between Obama with two years experience and the only team to win back-to-back presidential campaigns since FDR, (the team that beat war hero Bush and war hero Dole), ...who do you think the super-racist GOP wants to run against? and Why would a facsist bastard say nice things about Obama?

On this unfavorable rating of HRC,(40% down from 47% - a favorable rating of 50%) one must understand these polls are clustered mainly among republicans and republican leaning independents who are unlikely to vote for her in any circumstance. Hell, republicans and some haters in here of HRC fail to grasp the crucial role that symbolism plays in politics. HRC bids to be the first ever woman president of the U.S. and folks that's a big annd I mean a big deal. It will over shadow every other issue and image in this campagin.

I will give you a clue as to what may take place. Now those on the right are girding for the wrong fight. Most if not all pundits on the right believe they will be facing the queen of mean, Leona Hemsley...but when the face off comes next year against any of the right wingers that IS NOT who they will be facing....in the last paragraph I said symbolism and before this election is over HRC candidacy will have more in common with Amelia Earheart's first trans atlantic flight, or Sally Ride's first trip into space then the perceived queen of mean they believe her to be....Yes, symbolism will play a part and HRC will run as the most qualified and experienced candidate who happens to be a woman. Others will bring into play the symbolism while HRC will campaign to tell folks her message, and come January 20th 2009 Hillary Rodham Clinton will be sworn in as the 44th President of the United States who happens to be a woman....

I do thank you
Ben David

[Cleita]

29. I think she is very electable even though I don't care for

her senatorial record or how comfortable she is with the corporations she caters to. I don't think she is the best candidate for the country the way things are today, but she certainly will be a good President if she is elected. I just don't think enough will be turned around under her leadership to stop the conservatives from trying to turn our country into a religious dictatorship again anymore than Bill Clinton stopped it. This problem did start back with Nixon and became dangerous under Reagan yet Bill worked too many compromises with them that the chickens are coming home to roost now, like NAFTA.

[Bluebear]

31. When she was First Lady she championed a national health care initiative...

..and I think the people who disliked her from that point on wanted her to shut up and stick to picking out china patterns. Also, TravelGate, WhitewaterGate, PenisGate... right wing talk show hosts vilified her as a bigmouthed buttinsky instead of demure First Lady that should stick to...well, picking out China patterns.

Finally, a GOP work colleague said she could never vote for her because she "stood by her man" instead of divorcing Clinton. I know, but there it is.

She does get under the skin of the most right wing type of voter. The question is whether that type of voter would vote for ANY Democratic candidate, and my answer must be no. Therefore, although she is not my first choice, she will of course receive my support if she is the nominee.

[TahitiNut]

37. Someone named "George W. Bush" was the most-admired man.

Fancy that. :eyes:

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/default.aspx?ci=1678

[opihimoimoi]

38. Pubs are known for their steering/influencing/framing the debate/discourse/etc

Hillary will win because its in the best interest of the Nation

[WinkyDink]

40. America is sexist, macho, and full of its own "Wild West" mythology.

Is Hillary going to be the one to make history? I seriously doubt it.

[Netbeavis]

45. Hillary is a very polarizing public personality thanks to the GOP/MSM.

The GOP have done a nice job of polarizing & attacking her, although she has not exactly helped her cause any either. For those in the GOP who absolutely loathed Bill Clinton, they are doubling their loathe and spite against her. Since the GOP has the ear of the main-stream media, a lot of unflattering things about Hillary come to light, some true, some distorted.


It all comes down to this. Challenge the sources who claim any front running candidate(s) is not electable. I bet if you follow the roots back, you will find the source some GOP-friendly flunky.

[Clark2008]

47. Backwards swing vote Bubbas in all the need-to-carry-states

will not vote for her.

My husband overheard a cashier at a local market we both know as a Democrat saying he would not vote for that, quote, "man-hating dyke."

That about sums it up.

[BlooInBloo]

49. She's not. DUers just don't like her, so they say such things without regard for their truth.

[Clark2008]

50. Not this DUer.

I'd vote for her before I would Edwards; however, I do live in a red area in a purple state and I can tell you that she's not going to swing any purple states - not even Arkansas - and she may lose us a blue state or two.

That's why I feel she's unelectable. Has nothing to do with how I feel about her and every thing to do with the Electoral College.

[BlooInBloo]

51. She's as electable as any other Democrat. The hicks, homobigots, and others....

... aren't going to vote for ANY OTHER Democrat EITHER.

[Clark2008]

55. I'm not talking about hicks and homobigots.

Did you not just read what I posted?

I know this cashier to be a Democrat. He voted for Wes Clark and John Kerry in the last primary/general election, respectively, but he won't vote for Hillary Clinton.

He WOULD vote for another Democrat - just not her.