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CHENEY Gives INSTRUCTIONS To Roll Out Military Confrontation With Iran-With "Big Kickoff On Sept 11"

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 07:57 AM
Original message
CHENEY Gives INSTRUCTIONS To Roll Out Military Confrontation With Iran-With "Big Kickoff On Sept 11"
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 07:58 AM by kpete
Cheney & Iran: Barnett Rubin relays a message from a well-connected friend in Washington on the Cheney Administrations plans to roll out a military confrontation with Iran in September.

Post Labor Day Product Rollout: War with Iran

...." Today I received a message from a friend who has excellent connections in Washington and whose information has often been prescient. According to this report, as in 2002, the rollout will start after Labor Day, with a big kickoff on September 11. My friend had spoken to someone in one of the leading neo-conservative institutions. He summarized what he was told this way:

They (the source's institution) have "instructions" (yes, that was the word used) from the Office of the Vice-President to roll out a campaign for war with Iran in the week after Labor Day; it will be coordinated with the American Enterprise Institute, the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard, Commentary, Fox, and the usual suspects. It will be heavy sustained assault on the airwaves, designed to knock public sentiment into a position from which a war can be maintained. Evidently they don't think they'll ever get majority support for this--they want something like 35-40 percent support, which in their book is "plenty."


Of course I cannot verify this report. But besides all the other pieces of information about this circulating, I heard last week from a former U.S. government contractor. According to this friend, someone in the Department of Defense called, asking for cost estimates for a model for reconstruction in Asia. The former contractor finally concluded that the model was intended for Iran. This anecdote is also inconclusive, but it is consistent with the depth of planning that went into the reconstruction effort in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I hesitated before posting this. I don't want to spread alarmist rumors. I don't want to lessen the pressure on the Ahmadinejad government in Tehran. But there are too many signs of another irresponsible military adventure from the Cheney-Bush administration for me just to dismiss these reports. I am putting them into the public sphere in the hope of helping to mobilize opposition to a policy that would further doom the efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq and burden our country and the people of the Middle East with yet another unstoppable fountain of bloodshed.

more at:
http://icga.blogspot.com/2007/08/post-labor-day-product-rollout-war-with.html
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't disagree with reporting as if the administration has already decided to attack Iran
I actually think the speculation and reporting has been a factor in preventing some preemptive assault. NOTHING should be put past this administration.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
52. let's hope someone is keeping a close eye on Cheney's 'crew'
so they don't pull something off that may ppt a war against Iran.

don't let them out of your sight.
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
150. The good guys in the NSA/CIA etc should have Cheney under constant and extreme surveillance! n/t
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #150
158. They should give him the Kennedy treatment....
Oh, I guess that won't happen, that was a Bush family operation.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #150
170. Congress should make sure they do
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
82. Sure would get more attention than any Sept 11th protests.
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 02:47 PM by whereismyparty
I do believe they will attack Iran. I just don't think it will be so soon. First, there must be an "attack" on Americans that can be pinned on Iran. I think if the whole thing happens closer to the election, then they can declare Marshall Law and suspend the 2008 election. But then, what do I know? Maybe they are planning an attack next month on Iran and the later timeframe for war with Syria...

These guys are out of control. My only hope is that it will get so bad that the American public at large will wake up and demand they get arrested. Then perhaps there can be investigations into all of their crimes; i.e. stolen elections, 9/11, Downing Street Memo, outting Plame, torture, eavesdropping...
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #82
127. I didn't interpret the article as requiring an attack right away...
Just pounding the war drums to get us ready for one, which given the Iraq model, could be a few months off.

Their motivations are bizarre here, and the well being of Israel certainly isn't a top priority. This will set off a fire in which Israel will be burned, not right away, but in the long term aftermath. There is just no model of how such a conflict will ever end. Do they think that after the bombing Iran will start acting nice, their people will start liking Israel, and no ground troops will be needed? Do they think the Iranians will just forget about it and start getting along with Israel?

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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. I don't think they really care what happens to Israel.
Otherwise they wouldn't be turning the ME into bloody chaos.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #128
136. I think you're probably right...
but the irony will be that the security of Israel being trumpeted as a reason for the attack itself.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #127
131. You're right. Thanks for pointing that out.
I had completely misunderstood the article as meaning that the attacks would start after Sept 11. Thats what I get for scanning the OP instead of thoroughly reading it.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #127
147. They have several reasons to attack Iran
none having to do with national security. It would take attention away from criminal investigations into the Bush cartel. More importantly, it would cut back the flow of oil on the world market. Remember these guy make more profits when oil prices rise. An attack on Iran would completely wreck our military, leaving us defenseless and vulnerable and unable to pursue them when they leave the country for Dubai and South America. Remember, we're dealing with big time criminals here, ones who would make La Cosa Nostra look like a girl scout troop. An attack against Iran will allow them to loot what's left in the treasury, thus destroying any ability we may have at recovery. Their objective is to leave us in such bad shape that we'll be too busy trying to just survive to go after them.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #147
171. Wow, an explanation that's consistent with the facts.
Not something you hear everyday. But I've wondered about it, or if they actually are connected to a foreign government. I mean, take Rupert Murdoch, a foreigner who runs a TV station that constantly tells us what is and what is not American. It does seem a little odd...
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
126. How would reporting about a possible attack prevent it?
What resistance is initiated by an entry on an obscure left-wing blog that wouldn't be felt after carpet bombing Tehran?

If they aren't concerned about the political consequences of an actual attack, then why would they care about a mere speculative article? And if they do care about the consequences of an attack, they sure as hell won't do it, in which case the speculative article is simply wrong and not preventing anything.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #126
135. is this a trick question?
who said that reporting alone would prevent an attack? I do think that airing the prospect as inevitable helps mobilize opposition.
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bos1 Donating Member (997 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
151. I was thinking the same thing. Scott Ritter said "the war on Iraq
has already started" some time ago. Rather than being wrong, I am thinking that all this attention might have forestalled a preemptive strike. Though there are other factors. The religious extremists in Iraq that have the all the power now due to the disastrous occupation are all aligned with Iran, and some say that though the situation in Iraq is bad now, it would until total civil war, and constant warfare against the US troops, if the US attacks Iran.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well, looks like old Dickie cleared out everyone he wanted gone so now
it's no holds barred, rev the jet engines, load them bombs, and take off time for Iran.

How can ANY military commander go along with this? Is the no one left with a shred of decency or integrity? Is the military either entirely corrupt or brainwashed?

This is just friggin' crazy. We cannot take on another country. Especially one that's recently been doing so much business with Russia and China.
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Beausoleil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. They have the fundy-wingnut Air Force
pretty much unengaged in Iraq/Afganistan. The Navy is fairly idle too, floating around the Persian Gulf.

That's who will go along with it. They really don't need the Army or Marines for what they have in mind, IMHO.

Decency and integrity really don't factor in.

"Is the military either entirely corrupt or brainwashed?"

No, but just enough.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
44. Fundy, Left Behind readers in the top layer of Air Force brass is dangerous
They can get the rest of us in one helluva war from way up high in the sky and be back for supper.
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Beausoleil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. And it's not as dangerous for the AF
as it is for the Navy in this particular situation. As an ex-sailor, I worry about the guys stuck in the gulf right now.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Yep. The Air Force can be safe back by supper time.
Our sailors are pretty much sitting ducks. Pisses me off how the cheney junta DOD has positioned too many of them off Iran, Chicken hawks thumbing their noses at another nation just to get their war on and using our service men and women as bait....

War profiteers just looking to turn more US Military blood into gold for their greedy masters.

It HAS TO STOP.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
122. Bingo.
We have a winner.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
140. These past few years makes me LOATHE THE MILITARY
I WILL NEVER TRUST THE MILITARY AGAIN.

THEY SHOULD HAVE STOOD UP TO CRAZY GEORGE.


ALL VOLUNTEER MAKES THEM FOR SALE.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
124. Yeah, he did clear them all out...so this is the 'cold open' rollout
this promo campaign to hammer Iran won't work--these imperialist bunglers can't even get it right when they sneak around and pull this crap in the middle of the night!
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Since when does a VP
have the power to declare war?

I can't remember anything like that in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.

The man should be arrested by Congress, and locked in a padded cell


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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. cheney is out of control and should be arrested.
I hate these people.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Oh, be fair, now. He's not declaring war.
He's just ordering an illegal preemptive strike against another little Islamic hellhole that happens to be sitting on top of a lot of oil.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. And that oil just happens
to have been claimed by American oil companies. The sheer nerve of these natives under the delusion that the oil under their native soil is theirs!
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
74. ...and what would start WWIII - the fact that China and Russia are involved n/t
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. it would not be a "hellhole" if we keep out of there
and here's what Iran looks like, how dare we go invade and kill more innocent people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1690598
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
142. Hellhole?
Someone has been watching way too much American propaganda about Iran...
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
38. when we have a brain damaged prez* . nt
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
65. when is this country going to wake up to the fact that we have had a coup?
We are a third-world country run by a dictator. Mssrs. Noriega, Musharraf, Hussein, Kim, Castro, etc. meet Mr. Cheney, your soulmate
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
92. Cheney could walk into the National Archives and take a dump
square on the Constitution. Reid and Pelosi would say they didn't agree with pooping on the Constitution and then that would be the end of it. It's "Drop your pants, grab your ankles, and let Bush and Cheney do their business." Lord knows we wouldn't want to offend them or anything.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. Well put!
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #95
115. Thank you for encouraging my anal imagery!
That can only spell danger for future generations.
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. Of course they (neo-cons) want to - maybe even are planning to
BUT surely there is someone up there who is going to say:
"Now, just wait one fucking minute here!"
Then again, maybe these neo-cons actually believe that we're winning in Iraq and we'll win in Iran.
How deluded can they get?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. We ARE winning in Iraq. If you don't think so, it's only because
your definition of winning is too narrow. Look art corporate profits in the military-industrial sector; look at the advances we have made in disposing of troublesome ideas about civil rights at home; look at what we've done to concentrate the ownership of America's wealth. None of this would have been possible on such a scale without the war. If we can keep the chaos going in the Middle East for another 40 years, maybe we can end up owning the world.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. excuse me but I find your comments very offensive.
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 08:21 AM by alyce douglas
or are you forgetting this :sarcasm:
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. Seriously, you need the tag? nt
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
50. Brilliant post.
Even if you mean to be sarcastic, you're actually correct. You can't make this shit up, folks.

I have long maintained that it's dangerous to think of the neocon crowd as "incompetent." They are brilliant and cunning and they are doing everything exactly according to plan.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
81. I didn't mean to be sarcastic at all. Just to present the Neocon view of the world.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #81
161. Understood, but the irony is palpable
I doubt many DUers are having warm fuzzies about these outcomes, "successful" or not.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
154. There is a must read PNAC 101 in the research forum
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 05:35 AM by BelgianMadCow
that would still shock half the world when combined with the DSM, if only it had enough exposure and people would have the time and interest...
on edit : start here :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x223
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
167. Well articulated presentation of neoconservative thought.
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Kpete, I think this may be correct and the new ad campaign - -
Freedoms Watch - has been rolled out just before to "catapult the propaganda" and soften up a pliant populace. These slick ads are rolling here in NC just about all the time.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200708240001
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. oh god, I hope the American public will not go for another
illegal invasion. These monsters must be stopped.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Just how do you propose that the American public go about
stopping the machine?
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. you can use your imagination on that one!
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
73. Yes, that's what I've been wondering, because it needs to be done SOON.
Listening to Bush's speech the other night (on "Countdown"), all I could think of was,
"Omigod, he's going to attack Iran!" It became more obvious with every sentence - and
up popped that NUKULER word again and again. I also couldn't help but notice that
he seemed more energized than at any other time in the last 6 months, like a vampire
staring at a nice new neck.

I literally started wondering whether Bush is not insane - I mean, verifiably, undeniably
truly out of his wits (if he ever had any to begin with). What sane human being in his
position, with all the destruction and rubble lying around him from years of horrendous,
incompetent decisions, with the list of war dead and dying going up faster than the thermostat,
with the Constitution hanging in shreds and fluttering on the peeling wall of our collective "quaint"
concept of justice, with our country's reputation sullied and 'drug' through the mud in the view
of the entire world, with the people of this country depressed and demoralized beyond Katrina, beyond Gonzales,
beyond the hordes of Republican hypocrites who hog the headlines week after week, reminding us that our country
has become a shameful sham, just one big shell game, and as much as we kick and holler and cuss, Bush and his fellow
criminals are going to continue to do what they want until 1/21/09.

HOW do we stop them from taking us into war with Iran?
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #73
165. Perceptive - bush speak has consisted of Iran lately
It isn't easy but I listen to most of his speeches, they are hard to follow, but the constant refrain is Iran and how they are keeping us from winning in Iraq. Unbelievable yet typical black is white comments from bush. Why all the blame going to Iran? Reports are coming out on our progress there and he ain't leavin' Iraq so they must continue this insane war to another country blaming them for his FU.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
75. HR 333 for starters, if there ever was a time to start impeachment of Cheney it is now n/t
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. all too plausible
unfortunately.

I suspect they will have to ignore congress and the UN this time around though.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. "I don't want to spread alarmist rumors." Right.
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 08:20 AM by HereSince1628
In one posting 2 references that are both third hand anonymous sources.

Is there some parsing rule I don't understand? What is the meaning of alarmist rumor if it's not the propagation of anonymous 3rd hand verbage as some sort of confirmation of more anonymous third hand verbage on imminent war?

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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
53. Do you know who Barnett Rubin is?
Well-respected, cautious academic. If Rubin is concerned, I'm concerned.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
119. listening to Jeff Farias (Nova M Radio) and there was a reference
to a 'democratic congressman' who has stated outright that bush/cheney plans to attack Iran...
Ours is a corrupt, murderous culture, more then anyone wants to admit.
http://www.novamradio.com/index.php?pid=30
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. I think we'd all better be prepared to try and counter this is much as we can with calls and letters
to our reps. Even if they're repukes like in our state.

A message has to be sent that we, their constituents, will be outraged if they allow an attack on Iran.

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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. now is the time to hit back hard with our responses to this
next illegal invasion with our reps and senators.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
90. My rep is Jane Harman. I have completely given up on her, after
her pathetic performance as senior Dem on House Intelligence Committee pre-2006. I'm not wasting one more second of my life communicating with Harman. Instead, I will vote for any primary opponent to her who favors immediate unconditional withdrawal of forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and I will vote for Peace & Freedom or Democratic Socialist third party candidate against her in any future general election.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
70. Yeah that worked so well the last time, and the time before, and the time before that
Pardon the snark, but exactly what makes you think they will listen to us on *this* issue?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
20. The man has a warped CEO mind.
What does he think this is? Product marketing? In the military, the best strategy is the element of surprise.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. Hate to pee in everyones Wheaties but,
We've been hearing talk like this for two years.

"credible sources say..."
"high ranking official said..."
"beltway insider says..."
etc.

I understand the desire to stay on top of these criminals and try to prevent a worse version of Iraq from happening. But after hearing "the sky is falling" for so long, one tends to dismiss these proclamations as hollow.

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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Eeeeeew. couldn't get past 'pee in everyone's wheaties'

x(
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Should have used 'rain on everyone's parade' huh? n/t
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. I'm with tinkle bells here
I've been wrong before (I believe it was in the summer of 78), but it sounds too much like a hoax.

We won't know if a war is imminent until Halliburton starts digging the first latrines.

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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
46. The sky isn't falling.
It's the Earth gaining altitude.

People are betting big money it's going to happen.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
64. Well, personally, I don't dismiss assertions that this cabal will expand its M.E. war.
As a matter of fact, I believe the ONLY reason they haven't done so all ready is the political timing issue. Had they expanded the war before the 2006 elections, the whole party would have been dead in the water.

Moreover, I'll bet they are 'waiting' for another catalytic event to forge support for an expansion of their power-sucking, profit-making war for oil. I do NOT know how they will expand their war. However, I am certain they have several contingency plans in place.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. So, you're saying there WON'T be an attack on Iran...?
If it was political suicide in '06, it would be doubly so now with most of the country wanting us out of the Middle East.

Ironically, the political timing issue was used to support the argument that we would invade Iran prior to the '06 election. The rationale being that it would rally the base for the election. The blogoshpere was rife with people portending the inevitable October surprise.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #71
94. I am saying, this cabal WILL expand its M.E. war,...one way or another.
THAT is what I am most confident.

Yes, the blogosphere was full of expectations that this cabal would try to utilize war, again, to manipulate this nation. They didn't.

So, what.

I still am confident that these OIL & INDUSTRY fucks WILL attempt to expand their M.E. war.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #94
137. So What?
Well, it supports my statement that we've been hearing a lot of "the sky is falling" for a couple years, that's what. Do you know how many times people have posted that an attack was imminent?

I'm not saying it won't or can't happen, but it seems that every time someone farts in the White House, it's a sign we're going to attack Iran.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #71
129. They don't care about the politics anymore, now it's just about the money
See, they know they have already lost the 08 election. But with a new war going on when they leave office, the $$$ will keep rolling in for several more years...
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
97. Sill, better safe than sorry.
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dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
112.  Progressoid, I hate to piss on you but...
the sky has already fallen. Pull your head out of your ass and
look around.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #112
138. Really?
The sky has already fallen? Golly, you'd think something that major would at least show up on the BBC. Of course I don't get such good reception up my ass so maybe I missed it.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
117. Whether or not I agree with you,
I love the imagery for "pee in your wheaties", especially because I mention Darth shitting on the constitution elsewhere in this thread. Bodily functions all over the place. And you just know that the Chimp and his old frat buddies get together and play "Ookie Cookie" on the Bill of Rights when no one is looking.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
123. I wouldn't do that. n/t
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
22. Can we assemble a two part list of counter-ready comebacks to
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 08:48 AM by higher class
arm people with knowledge?

One part about Iranians - a myth dispeller with emphasis on the differences between the various leaders and the people?

Another about all the traitorous and hypocritical things done by Cheney WITH Iran?

To include their motivation that they don't tell the people - corporations/barons and Israel.

This is THEIR WAR and they want our money, children and approvals to do it.

THEIR war is for war profiteering conglomerates and rebuilders AND the faction within Israel who wants to protect Israel in war ways, but with no accountability to anyone (just as the corporations want no-accountability and have gotten it). They found their man in Cheney and they planted him in the WH as the real President. They found an uninterested, revenge obsessed, ridiculous fund raiser whose buttons they could push and control.

They, the corporations and Israel and reverends were promised plenty and they want the rest of their plenty. Because they're not going to get the last of the wealth from oil that they want for themselves, they're not going to get all the land around Israel, and the reverends are not going to get their followers by pushing peace.

Americans are ignorant about the people beyond Bethlehem or 20 miles outside Bethlehem. They have as much comprehension of history and geography as the fund raiser. We need counter fact sheets. Simple ones.

(To include background on AEI - they must be exposed for who they are - being passed off by the media as the people's experts - this is the USSR and all dictatorships all over again. As for me - AEI is the sames as AIPAC and the same as Pentagon.)
We must be armed with facts.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
78. Brilliant post, higher class! n/t
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
23. Do they really believe that 40% of Americans are too stupid to see that any action
against Iran will get every American in the Iraq killed?
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
166. Yup, there goes what is left of our fighting forces....
We keep thinking this bunch can't be that stupid, but - they have proven us wrong every time. They have no concept of what this country is or was about. Big business rules, we don't.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
24. Staying after Labor Day
Wasn't there a recent commentary about the WH telling people if the want to leave, they will have do do it before Labor Day or plan on staying until the 'end' of the Administration, whenever that is?

I think Rove's departure is connected to the time frame.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. Naw, the government's not planning on attacking Iran.
They're going to be forced into it at the 11th hour, just as they were with Iraq. Iran's been given plenty of chances and they obviously want confrontation. I'm sure we'll see it, us giving Iran yet another chance which they will willfully throw back in our faces by not having the mullahs commit mutual suicide on live television to prove that they don't want to incur the wrath of the US and the UN.

So what choice do we have left but to spend three weeks throwing HE ordnance at them? They just brought it on themselves.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. huh?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. please tell me you are not serious.
what choice do we have???
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Are all of you snark-impaired? nt
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #35
48. snark-impaired...
:rofl: I have to remember that one.
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. "They" don't want confrontation. "They" have one whackjob
leader. Did you forget your sarcasm thingie?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. I really didn't think it was necessary.
Before Iraq we said we were not planning to attack, then laid down impossible conditions to prevent us attacking, which of course Iraq couldn't meet. So we attacked, saying they brought it on themselves.

We will be seeing similar ultimatums. Stop all nuclear development (even though they are signatories of the NonProliferation Treaty, and are allowed by it to develop nuclear power); Ahmadinijad has to step down; they must stop supporting terrorists in Iraq (which they can't stop, because they don't control the terrorists or their supporters, and how could they prove they stopped it if they even could?); etc.

And even if they do agree to meet the ultimatums, we will claim they didn't and blow the shit out of them anyway.

And they'll have brought it all on themselves.
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Ooh sorry. I guess I need my caffeine.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. All can be avoided should Saudi Arabia keep oil prices DRAMATICALLY low
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 10:10 AM by EVDebs
I've noticed that here in CA our traditionally high gas prices are around $0.40 lower than June prices. There were gas riots in Iran not too long ago. The pressure on the Iranian regime via petroleum pricing would be much more effective, yet I'm hearing that Putin has military treatys with Iran to boot.

Pooty, *'s good 'ole friend, could also assist the Saudis in lowering petroleum prices further. But I'm not seeing any evidence of that right now either. Looks like further grain shipments difficulties could ensue to the former USSR.

The quid pro quo of the Saudi arms deal for billions a week or so ago is .... what ? Lower prices via increased production. Looks like OPEC may have a problem, but who cares really ?
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
62. Have they turned on the spigots since January?
Unless you have seen more recent production figures for SA than those shown in the graph, it doesn't look like the Saudis have exercised much of their 'swing producer' capabilities lately.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2331
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #62
134. Strange here in CA. Prices dropped around 40 cents w/in past month
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 10:34 PM by EVDebs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1680815&mesg_id=1689351

and you'd think our Saudi "allies" would be trying like mad to avert a US attack on Iran...but maybe they think they won't be targetted in any of this. Pretty boneheaded thinking but hey they might turn on that spigot...if they're smart.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #134
157. I believe the Saudis WANT the U.S. or Israel to attack Iran,
and have been wanting it for some time. Seymour Hirsch wrote about it in an article in the New Yorker a few months back...I'll see if I can track down the link for you tomorrow.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #134
160. read the accompanying link
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 09:53 AM by IDemo
The quite lengthy analysis by Mr. Staniford can be summarized with just a few of his words: "Since late 2004, KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) have entered a new era where they cannot raise production in response to demand side needs, and instead the major features of the production curve correspond to supply side events.."

Geology is beginning to trump economics and politics in the oilfield. Saudi Aramco has been pumping 7 million barrels of sea water daily into the field just to make oil migrate towards the wellhead. More here on the state of KSA's (and the world's) largest field -> http://www.energybulletin.net/1269.html
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #160
163. Thanks. I see that Prince Turki says that oil prices will triple if Iran is attacked
So, more $ for the Saudis I reckon.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
29. Mettez vos jeux, madames et monsieurs.
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 08:55 AM by formercia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3480543&mesg_id=3480543

Someone is betting $4.5 billion on a catastrophe within four weeks.

Edited on Mon Aug-27-07 01:44 PM by ElsewheresDaughter
Here's something that is snowballing through the industry getting a lot of people spooked. Someone bet billions that the markets will crash 30% - 50% before September 21st:

http://www.financialnews-us.com/?page=ushome&contentid=...

http://www.smartmoney.com/news/on/index.cfm?story=ON-20...

http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=466...

Either we have the stupidest person on earth, or you should stock up on can goods. Conspiracy theories are running wild on Wall St. I'm sure it's nothing, like they say maybe just a panicked hedge fund or the Chinese, but these things almost never happen... except once, 2 weeks before September 11th 2001.
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
63. The Financial Times and SmartMoney sites seemed to have pulled those articles
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 01:57 PM by AikidoSoul
Do you have the material saved to disk?

If so, do you have a copy you can send me please?

Or you could copy and paste them into DU private mail?
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. My bad
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
79. Could something happen over Labor Day weekend? n/t
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. The question I have
is: How many more people are these scum willing to kill to stay out of jail?
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
153. Interesting..and a small note
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 05:29 AM by BelgianMadCow
It's "faites vos jeux"..part of Belgium speaks french (part dutch (mine) and part german, how funny is tht lol)

If I had any money, I'd bet it on a crash with options or futures what do you call em? And take a term till the supposed end of the Bush reign...been thinking about that and warned my dad concerning his pension fund...het thought I was rambling a couple years ago but not anymore...

But that would be cynical in a way and who knows what the value of things will be in such a future?

I have a greenhouse, fruit trees and a vegetable garden :D..unfortunately, the bank still owns the best part of our house :-(
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #153
155. You are correct
My French is very rusty.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
31. Kickoff, eh? So, this is all just a game of football, isn't it?
Only difference is, in real football your linebackers usually don't end up dead or missing body parts.
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. That is exactly what it is. And that is why you have to root for the home team.
Or get out of the stadium.

That is EXACTLY how many if not most Americans look at the war, like its a fucking game.

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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
87. And wear the right colors, and wave lots of flags.
Big foam fingers haven't translated so well to supporting the war. Yet.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
39. Pat Buchanan And Tweety Both Commented Briefly That We Are Getting Ready......
to attack Iran - but Tweety changed the subject immediately and wouldn't go there. They know. They won't talk about it. It is a foregone conclusion and they no they won't be able to stop it.

See yesterdays Hardball.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
41. 911
ain't that about a b.....:grr:
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
42. The Man Who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo
The Man Who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo

I've just got here, through Paris, from the sunny southern shore;
I to Monte Carlo went, just to raise my winter's rent.
Dame Fortune smiled upon me as she'd never done before,
And I've now such lots of money, I'm a gent.
Yes, I've now such lots of money, I'm a gent.

As I walk along the Bois Boolong
With an independent air
You can hear the girls declare
"He must be a Millionaire."
You can hear them sigh and wish to die,
You can see them wink the other eye
At the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo.



I stay indoors till after lunch, and then my daily walk
To the great Triumphal Arch is one grand triumphal march,
Observed by each observer with the keenness of a hawk,
I'm a mass of money, linen, silk and starch -
I'm a mass of money, linen, silk and starch.

As I walk along the Bois Boolong
With an independent air
You can hear the girls declare
"He must be a Millionaire."
You can hear them sigh and wish to die,
You can see them wink the other eye
At the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo.

I patronised the tables at the Monte Carlo hell
Till they hadn't got a sou for a Christian or a Jew;
So I quickly went to Paris for the charms of mad'moiselle,
Who's the loadstone of my heart - what can I do,
When with twenty tongues she swears that she'll be true?

As I walk along the Bois Boolong
With an independent air
You can hear the girls declare
"He must be a Millionaire."
You can hear them sigh and wish to die,
You can see them wink the other eye
At the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo.


Written and Composed by Fred Gilbert in 1892.

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
43. Cheney must be arrested and locked up in the Hague NOW!
Evil bastidge!

:patriot:
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Happy 9/11!
Let's celebrate with a new war.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
98. Yes, it's way past prisontime:30!!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
49. That means we'll be blaming some huge bombing in Iraq on Iran soon to set this up for the sheeple.
If Congress allows this, we will all have all the proof we need they are all in cahoots on this.

If we now know this is going to happen, CONGRESS surely knows. They must stop it!!!!:grr:
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #49
67. or they'll arrest a couple of iranian travellers in the US
and call 'em a 'terror cell'
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
51. Please tell me this is wrong.
The last thing this country needs is yet another war.

Don't get me wrong - we'll blow the hell out of them - we have much more firepower than the Iranians, but they'll be no pushovers - they've got SAMs, they've got Exocet and Moskit anti-ship missiles, and they have a few decent fighters. Their air force will probably be blown out of the sky pretty quickly, but the missiles will be hidden in the terrain in the same way Saddam hid his Scuds during the first Gulf War, so don't be surprised if we lose a couple ships, maybe even a carrier, to Iranian missiles.

Shipping in the Persian Gulf will grind to a halt - the Iranians can easily park missile batteries in range of the Strait of Hormuz, threaten to sink some tankers, and actually hit one as an example. Pretty soon, we'll be pining for the days when gas was only $3.00/gallon.

On top of that, there are several hundred thousand Iranian footsoldiers ready to go. They're pretty low-tech, and they're probably not well trained. They'll pour into Iraq as soon as the fighting starts, and while we'll eventually be able to stop them, we'll take a lot of casualties.

The insurgents in Iraq will probably coordinate their attacks in the same time - it'll be like the Tet Offensive.

And the worst part is that while we'll be able to score some military victories and beat Iran down, we won't be able to secure final victory. We don't have the troops or the equipment to actually invade Iran, so after the initial battle, the fight will come down to a nasty war of attrition, which we won't be able to win.

This attack is completely insane, and I hope that even Dick realizes it would be foolish.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #51
102. You left out something even more ominous.
Russia and China might step in as well.
America used to be the only superpower left in the world.
China has risen incredibly in recent years.
They could take this opportunity to knock that number back down to one again.
We can handle Iran, but we can't handle the combined forces of Iran, Russia, and China. Does Bush think he could really win that war?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
54. kick--hitting Iran is going to make Iraq War look like Grenada
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
55. We better hope that Russia and China don't jump into the fray:
Russia, China Host Ahmadinejad at Anti-U.S. Security Summit

By Henry Meyer
Enlarge Image/Details

Aug. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Russia and China today host Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a summit of a Central Asian security club designed to counter U.S. influence in the region.

snip>

Leaders of the SCO will tomorrow fly to the Urals region of Chelyabinsk to attend large-scale war games involving 6,000 soldiers and 100 aircraft called ``Peace Mission 2007.''

It marks the first joint military exercises on Russian soil between Russia and China, once rivals during the Cold War. Two years ago, the two countries staged major war games in China, causing concern in the U.S.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aRwBBl6fYDLw&refer=europe
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Which makes me wonder why this thread keeps sinking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1697435

Shanghai Cooperation Organization: Think Putin Restarted Those Strategic Bomber Patrols For Nothing?
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. Just knrd that thread Wiley. People need to pay attention
to the alliances that have formed from the US attacks in the ME.

Dangerous waters we're in.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #61
77. Thanx!
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #57
148. Putin
is licking his lips at the prospect of a U.S. attack on Iran. He knows what it will do to us and elevate Russia to the top of the heap. Russia isn't squandering its resources on foreign wars, and is ready to step into the breach when we fall.
We'll come back when the people rise up and remove the last vestiges of fascism.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #55
143. US won't touch Iran.
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 03:25 AM by liberation
It is just huffing and puffing, just to wag the dog and keep the knuckle draggers interested.

In all fairness, the US is a paper tiger, and the neo-cons just can't go against assholes who are as greedy as they are and have big guns. China needs Iran as one of its main energy partners, and the US won't move a finger threatening the supply of oil to the largest standing army less than 1000 miles away.

On top of that, if the Chinese get annoyed they can dump their dollar reserves and put us back in the stone age in less than a week after the financial meltdown that would create. Also if Iran goes next, they could decide to stop trading oil in dollars and switch to Euros, if both Iran and Venezuela decided to do that overnight, again the dollar would become worthless as that would trigger a domino switch from dollars to petro-euros.

Iran uses us to fend off some of their internal policy scandals, and we use them as the proverbial bogey man.

At the end of the day it is all about money, regardless of how much money defence contractors would make out of the deal, it would be peanuts in contrast to what the overall big boys would lose in the short run. And guess what, those are the guys with all the strings.

It is never about fundie bullshit or armageddon, money is what talks. And attacking Iran would cost us a wad, literally.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #143
169. Let's hope this Administration thinks like you do
What you say makes sense, but they insisted on going into Iraq knowing how difficult it would be. Remember cheney's 1994 tape stating how foolish it would have been to go into Baghdad in 1991?
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
59. Follow the money.... look at military contractors to what preparations they are making...
Even if this is being funded 'off the books' until the rollout occurs, there are plenty of military contractors who cannot wait to feed at the public trough on a war with Iran.

In years past, those of us living in states with lots of military bases have been able to gauge events by the movement of troops. The families do not disclose anything classified, but when their husbands and sons are deployed out with their units you know that something is up.

Today we can learn a lot by looking at military contractors and their actions.

And for those who watch the stockmarket closely, when military contractors are about to get large no-bid contracts --well that would be the time that shares and options are bought by insiders who know that the government largess is about to flow down the pipe to them.

I don't doubt this is on Cheney's 'to do list.' I just wonder how many politicians are willing to end their careers by supporting this or even remaining silent.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
60. its not going to happen
there will be no war with iran..unless george bush wants to have a depression added to his list of failures
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Of course he does...that way he can finally dismantle Social Security because
this country will be so broke we won't be able to afford it.

At least that's what they'll tell us.

But the war profiteers will be set for life -- you can bet on it.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. Kpete, let me thank you for bringing these enlightening articles to
to our attention, not only singling out KPete but thanks to all who bring these articles out to be read. Thanks you guys.
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pingzing58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
69. Wouldn't it be cheaper if we offered one billion dollars for the head of Osama Bin Ladin?
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #69
104. Maybe if we all gave-I mean ALL of the folks in the US
actually gave Cheney 10.00 dollars each. Buy him off! How many Americans are there? ( whatever donation digits that will suffice and renders him to start drooling like a mad dog!...The only thing these evil bastards understand or listen to is money!! Money!!! Money!!! Let's offer them a little BARGAIN!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
72. I bet they get over 60% support for the war with Iran... Gotta support the troops
I might post a poll - what % of support will Bush get for war with Iran...
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
80. When I read headlines like this I hope that by now we all have read
the 88 page PNAC document titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses". Written by PNAC/AEI/Cheney's buddies it lays out the whole scenario that has been unraveling for the last 7 years. http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf Prophetically it seems to point out everything that has come to pass. What a coinkidink! While our Dem leaders continue to fund the wars and 9/11 conspiracy posts continue to get relegated to the dungeon here at DU the wars continue to escalate and rollout. As Hercule Poirot once said "To find the killer one only need to look at who has benefitted the most." The real question for Dem leaders at this point is "Is this the United States you want to live in?" One that does these things in order to keep "The American Peace" as Kagen and Kristol puts it.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #80
89. Link to European study group Center For International Studies and Diplomacy.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #80
105. That's right!
Anyone who has read the PNAC plan couldn't possibly think it's a conspiracy. It is their PLAN! Their EVIL PLAN! I thought so when I read it the first time years ago. I was horrified then just as I am now.
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #105
121. It's odd that anytime PNAC is brought up in the MSM the subject
is changed very quickly so as not to spoil the ending for everyone I would assume. Every now and then it gets brought up on C-Span and hosts and guests dismiss it very quickly. CNN, MSNBC, and Faux have obviously read the thing but never a mention. My 13 year old nephew is more up on it than they are. And Kristol when questioned said it was "two guys in a closet" even though AEI has continued their agenda to a T. Mike Malloy was saying the other day that when he speaks with former colleagues from CNN they tell him that people who work for the CIA are out in the open at CNN in positions of authority. And the staff is completely aware of it. It's accepted as the norm.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
83. WAR CRMINAL!
:mad: You and BushInc. Nothing but dirty, filthy, evil War Criminals!!!:argh:

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
85.  A clarification on September From Dr. Rubin
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 03:12 PM by kpete
A clarification on September

Thanks to all for pushing this up the list. I want to clarify one thing: what my source says will start in September is not the war, but the PR build-up to the war. In 2002-2003 six months elapsed between the product rollout in September and Shock and Awe in March. How long were we hearing about iPhones before we could get them? This will also give them time to declare the Surge a success, redeploy some troops from Iraq and crowd the remaining ones into compounds where it will be harder to undertake reprisals against them.

by BRRubin on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 11:40:57 AM PDT

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/8/30/111448/373/277#c277

.................

Also From Kos:

I looked up Dr. Rubin, and I find he is highly credible, and not someone who is spreading some unfounded rumour from an untrustworthy source.

From his bio:

Dr Rubin received a Ph.D. (1982) and M.A. (1976) from the University of Chicago and a B.A. (1972) from Yale University. He also received a Fulbright Fellowship to study at the Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales in Paris in 1977-1978. He is currently chair of the Conflict Prevention and Peace Forum (a program of the Social Science Research Council), a member the the Executive Board of Human Rights Watch/Asia, and the Board of the Open Society Institute's Central Eurasia Project. During 1996-98 he served on the Secretary of State's Advisory Committee on Religious Freedom Abroad.
More bio and resume here: http://www.cfr.org/bios/bio.html?id=115

So the Relevant facts to glean from this:

-The administration long ago admitted it views selling the public on a war is the same as selling any old product, and applies standard corporate marketing rules to the practice
-Cheney and the assorted neo-cons have been agitating for war with Iran for some time
-Rubin has one source he trusts who says the neo-conservative mouthpiece organs have received their marching orders for September
-Rubin coincidentally has another source who was asked for reconstruction plans that would be suitable for a post-Iran invasion
-all this is perfectly in character for the people involved

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/30/111448/373

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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. reconstruction plans that would be suitable for a "post-Iran invasion"?
That sure sounds like boots on the ground to me..
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #85
103. I think they'll sell it hard and quick this time
They want to do this before congress has time to stop them

I'm betting on 9/11

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
86. Congresscritters' phones should be ringing off the hook, now!
I called Murray, Cantwell and McDermott, and none of them seem to have a clue.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
91. If it's anything like IRAQ it will be another QUAGMIRE!!!!
:nuke:
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EnricoFermi Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
93. This is scary
I'd like to know how much has been beefed up in that region, in terms of the Air Force in particular. I know of some air support operations in Qatar, only 80 miles from Iran.

I seriously believe that we are not that far from strategic airstrikes, whether they are limited or not. The air force is quite ready to go, and has been for quite some time. It could be as little as a single cruise missile, but from what I have reading, an attack on many different facilities is the only thing that will work, in order to prevent a dangerous retaliation on Iraq, Israel and fleets in the area.

But given the geopolitical world, this could always be empty threats.

I just don't see that with this president.

If we declare war on Iran, I am declaring war on this government. I have had it.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. Me Too.
This is beyond Bullshit. :argh:
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #93
107. Yes, we must all become our own dragonslayers.
Absolutely we must!
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EnricoFermi Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #107
118. Yes, figuratively at this point
People are absolutely too unmotivated in this country, too willing to accept the conditions and status quo, and unwilling to stand up to the rules of the establishment, even when they violate the constitution and what is ethically sound. They simply wait for the next election to expel the infection, but don't recognize that it never really goes away, getting worse each year, if only temporarily getting better. The population has absolutely no idea how bad it has gotten, more concerned about scandals and completely unrelated events, while ignoring that many of our civil liberties have nearly been abolished. The electoral process itself may have even been compromised, yet we rely on it as our only saving grace, as if our system is so self-corrective that its destruction or corruption is not possible.

If we do attack Iran, which is certainly not guaranteed, we may be pushed into the riskiest situation of any of our lifetimes, and I am including the second world war. Unlike that war, this is completely for the benefit of a few wealthy corporations and individuals, while forcing the most helpless to death in the name of their own freedom, as we have seen in Iraq. Unlike Iraq, this probably won't just be another small scale war, in which other countries are not involved. We are incredibly vulnerable and the strategic significance of Iran is too much for others to ignore.

If a military attack on Iran is the intent, which it very well may not be, we must do something now. What was done by protesters prior to the airstrikes on Iraq was not effective and was easily mitigated, while the population almost completely ignored it. If the information is correct that they are going to be sampling the idea of an attack on Iran, we must demonstrate that this is not going to be tolerated and that we will all be outraged to an extent that they are threatened.

So as for dragonslayers, yes we must all be one. We must demand attention, doing anything unharmful to others that ends this ridiculous cycle. Contacting representatives repeatedly, calling into talk radio and CSPAN, and annoying those around you by being a complete pain in their ass if you have to, is part of the solution. Burn a flag in the street if you have to. An individual has a lot of power, and each individual is needed to stop this from happening again. When you simply wait for others to stand beside you, you'll find that no one is there.
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Mr. Ected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
99. Coupled With Deep Modem's Prediction That Cheney Would Resign This Week
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that he will duck out before the sh*t hits the fan. The Dark One's hands are so, so clean.
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #99
109. So what will he do? Go back to work full time for war profiteer Halliburton? Other?
Edited on Thu Aug-30-07 05:06 PM by AikidoSoul
This man is beyond evil and I wouldn't put it past him.


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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
100. Damn them all to hell!
Invading Iran would be a disaster. Everyone seems to realize this except for Bush and his scum-sucking ilk.
How many more people have to die before somebody does something?
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
101. meanwhile the mystery poster at TPM says Cheney is stepping down by then
So which baseless conspiracy is true?
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CT_Progressive Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. I like you.
:)
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. welcome to DU!
Enjoy the WILD ride!

:hi:
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #101
132. Cheney gives the order to nuke Iran on the night of 9/16 then promptly resigns on 9/17?
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
110. Asia times editorial on escalation against Iran by William Hawkins:
Senior fellow for national-security studies at the US Business and Industry Council in Washington, DC.

Iran, with its support for militias in foreign lands, its supposed nuclear ambitions, and its aggressive Shi'ite faith, poses a much greater threat to the Sunni Arab world than does Israel, which has no intention of toppling Arab regimes and converting their people to its religious doctrines. Iran does have these ambitions, directed at both Jews and Sunni Muslims. As a nation-state with vast oil reserves and substantial diplomatic support from Russia and China, Iran is much stronger than the ad hoc al-Qaeda terrorist group. Al-Qaeda can kill people with suicide bombers in marketplaces, but it cannot seize state power. The terrorism groups sponsored by Tehran are far more capable and dangerous as projections of Iranian power.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH31Ak02.html
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
111. "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger
It's not just Henry that thinks this way!
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
113. John Hogue link for those that are interested in the stranger side of this stuff.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
114. Difference between now and 2002---the Pentagon and NBC.
Every time Cheney has tried to start a war with Iran--and that includes last summer when Israel invaded Lebanon---the Pentagon has dragged its heels and refused to get involved, and its contacts at GE/NBC have been very vocal about informing the American public about why a war with Iran is a bad idea.

With Cheney on his way out in 16 more months, I do not see why the Pentagon should give up now. They have been playing this game since early 2005 and winning.
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EnricoFermi Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #114
120. That has worked
and may sadly be our only saving grace, but I don't care what is.

The regret seen after the Iranians were captured the other day was also encouraging.

The internal distrust of this administration coming from the Pentagon itself is always a good sign. While I think it is important to be alarmed at what is going on, the likelihood of an attack is probably less than half, as long as there are people inside that understand that it would be completely stupid.

My fear is completely tied to another terrorist attack on US soil, because I believe that if this happens they'd have just enough support in both the military and general population to do what they wished. I am hoping that people realize this time that the proper response to extremists attacking you is not to invade another country.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #120
139. The Saudi Royals will almost certainly have Al Qaedi attack the US
before Nov. 2008 to influence the presidential election, because they desperately want to continue the policies of their lapdogs Bush-Cheney and they do not want a president that will do anything that might really stabilize Israel or lead to a lasting Israeli-Palestinian peace--which would focus attention on the corruption of the Saudi Royals. They also want the US to wage war on their Shia enemies. So, having Sunnis attack the US would be the best way to achieve that in this crazy world in which we live.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
116. Interesting... I have not heard this or
September in particular. I heard other things, but to speculate is insane because plans change on a dime.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
125. Makes sense, actually
Think about it. Suppose you want to "introduce new product." When to do it? Not in August, you never introduce new product in August. The week after Labor Day is still pretty early--people are just getting back and not paying attention yet. The second week is perfect, except Ramadan starts on the 13th and, you know, that always escalates the violence in Iraq, so you definitely want to introduce the distracting new product before Ramadan violence causes people to possibly suspect the surge isn't working. You look at September 11. It's on a Tuesday. So very significant. What a perfect day for new product.

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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
130. Just won't listen to the IAEA
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-30-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
133. Boy they sure love that date, don't they?
:scared:

:nuke:
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #133
156. Everybody knows 911
It's the number you call in an emergency.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
141. War rhetoric has already started. Here's a link..Extra $50B for Iran attack.
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 02:29 AM by bjobotts
Glenn Greenwald over at Salon magazine has a post listing the quotes and the rhetoric for the Iran attack. I think that is what the extra $50billion war supplemental is for...since Sec. of Defense Gates didn't know about the extra $50bil request and it's his budget. I believe that is what the initial cost of attacking Iran would be and Gates couldn't very well put that in his budget. Only by refusing to give Bush his war funding or impeaching him and Cheney will stop the planned attack on Iran.
Everything is already in place to do it. Gas would go up to $10/gal causing less output or production and the oil companies would make a mint driving the prices up. Bush/Cheney stand to profit enormously. Only Congress can stop this. God please give the Dems a spine. Follow the link below.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/08/29/iran/index.html
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
144. coming soon


Don't miss a toon - sign up for a FREE SUBSCRIPTION or E-MAIL A TOON TO SOMEONE Radical Fringe on Comics Sherpa
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
145. K&R.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
146. "unstoppable fountain of bloodshed"
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
149. Cheney plan is to reunite the country again, the Way Bush did on 9-11, shouldn't
Cheney be planning to attack Iran on 9/11/08 though for maximum impact for nest years election though?
Finally! Bush's exit strategy from the Iraq fiasco...
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #149
152. Another topic.....
Not quite related; but CNN is running another shot of a building collapsing onto itself. ( like the towers) this one in a movie being made. The little insert was narrated by Soledad O'Brien! If you were doing a story about an action film being made would you focus on the destruction of a building rather than the actors or the plot?
This is the third repetition of a building collapsing into itself that they've run. It's as if someone there, is trying to send a message visually! Because as a news item, none of the 3 I've seen have been particularly relevant to the rest of the news being shown. The other 2 were actual demolitions of buildings, one in Dallas, forget where the other was........
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #149
164. It wouldn't work that way.
If there was only a month before the elections, the voters would be split between the "I told you they were dangerous" and the "Republicans are NOT keeping us safe".

But if there was an incident in September 07, that would give the impetus for a ever-upspiraling cycle of accusations against Iran, resulting in action in the spring, and with a few months to go before the election the patriotic fervor would still be at a high pitch as the campaign goes into full gear - any anti-war (democratic) stance would be branded as traitorous, surrendering, etc., and they could run Mickey Mouse against us and win, just as they could have in 03, had they timed the war better.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
159. This is something which we shall know if it's true within two weeks, though.
Seriously, at least here in DU as opposed to most of tyranny-bootlicking America, will there be ANY doubt about what constitutes "Cheney's Big Product Rollout", provided it passes a certain base threshold (which it will, if it happens...it will be Full-Spectrum Infoganda Dominance)?

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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #159
162. Interesting read about having only four days left
here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/30/133310/976

Yes I know it's that kos site, but it is interesting.
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Ewellian Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
168. "NEADS sqaudron deploying to Kyrgyzstan"
This item in our 8/30/2007 local paper got my attention:


"An upcoming assignment to Kyrgyzstan is the largest-ever overseas deployment for the Northeast Air Defense Sector, says Col. Clark Speicher, commander of NEADS which is based at Griffiss park."

"Speicher said today the imminent deployment by a NEADS security forces squadron to the former Soviet republic in Central Asia is a departure from NEADS primary mission involving air defense responsibilities over the eastern U.S."

"The deployment will involve Manas Air Base, a U.S. site in Kyrgyzstan, and will be for 6-12 months, Mike Strickler of the continental U.S. NORAD region said Thursday. The U.S. maintains the base to support coalition operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and other locations."

http://romesentinel.com/news?newsid=20070831-141852
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