Repug straw poll: he’s little more than Jesus Christ’s running mate.”..........

[rodeodance]

.........The recent Iowa straw poll was a more somber but equally anachronistic spectacle. Again, it’s a young conservative commentator, Ryan Sager, writing in The New York Sun, who put it best: “The face of the Republican Party in Iowa is the face of a losing party, full of hatred toward immigrants, lust for government subsidies, and the demand that any Republican seeking the office of the presidency acknowledge that he’s little more than Jesus Christ’s running mate.”..........



> Published on Sunday, August 19, 2007 by the New York Times
> He Got Out While the Getting Was Good
> by Frank Rich
>
> Back in those heady days of late summer 2002, Andrew Card, then the president’s chief of staff, told The New York Times why the much-anticipated push for war in Iraq hadn’t yet arrived.”You don’t introduce new products in August,” he said, sounding like the mouthpiece for the Big Three automakers he once was. Sure enough, with an efficiency Detroit can only envy, the manufactured aluminum tubes and mushroom clouds rolled off the White House assembly line after Labor Day like clockwork.
>
> Five summers later, we have the flip side of the Card corollary: You do recall defective products in August, whether you are Mattel or the Bush administration. Karl Rove’s departure was both abrupt and fast. The ritualistic “for the sake of my family” rationale convinced no one, and the decision to leak the news in a friendly print interview (on The Wall Street Journal’s op-ed page) rather than announce it in a White House spotlight came off as furtive.
>
> Inquiring Rove haters wanted to know: Was he one step ahead of yet another major new scandal? Was a congressional investigation at last about to draw blood?
..............

[jaxx]

1. Best description I've seen.

Makes you wonder what gives them ownership of religion.

[acmavm]

2. Because 'they say so'. And no one openly disputes it. And the

left disowns people of faith.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

3. People with true faith..

Wouldn't need to have it constantly stroked by politicians pandering for their vote.

Nothing turns me off faster than someone trying to manipulate me.

Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.


The left doesn't "disown" people of faith, it leaves people of faith to practice their faith as they see fit rather than constantly pandering to them.

[acmavm]

5. Phooey. Watch the shitty behavior here towards people who

have the timerity to admit they believe in God. It's the same thing for politicians. They act like its pornography or child molestation to admit to having a belief in God because of all the crap they'd have to take from those who don't believe.

I'm not saying that the laws in this country should be drafted with religion in mind. In fact, I believe quite the contrary. And I'm not saying that the Constitution should be interpreted with religion in mind. I believe quite the contrary. But I am saying that no one dare admit any connection to a religion because of the arrogant bad mouthing they'll get.

[alfredo]

6. Many of us are stinging from the way we were treated by the theocrats.

They were more than just a bunch of loud mouthed jerks, they were a threat to our constitution. It's going to take a while to get over that.

[Sapere aude]

7. Why do you have to tell me you believe in god? Who gives a shit?

Are you something more special than me or anyone else? Do you deserve some special kind of treatment because you choose some belief system? Screw that!

You deserve the same respect as anyone else but not because you have some kind of faith or belief system.


It's the 'in your face' stuff of religion that pisses people off. If you didn't have the need to make public your faith people couldn't attack you for it. Got it?

[acmavm]

10. Well, from your tone, and others here, we get no respect. As

people of faith or democrats. If you didn't feel the need to be an obnoxious rude overbearing creep, then we wouldn't need to be 'in your face'.

Got it?

[Sapere aude]

12. When I was growing up Catholic, I was told over and over again that people

would persecute me for my faith. Jesus was persecuted and martyrs went to heaven so as a kid I felt it was my duty to myself to go out and get persecuted since that way I would get close to being a martyr and maybe if I got lucky someone would kill me for my faith and I could go straight to heaven. Do not pass go, collect $200, get out of jail free!

I got over that but it seems many people never do. You still have a persecution complex.

[acmavm]

13. Whatever. And you have a superiority complex. That's the end

of this discussion.

[yardwork]

9. That is total b.s.

I've never heard a single American politician say anything against religion - it would be political suicide and they know it.

And the "shitty behavior" towards people who believe in God here in DU - do you need somebody to call you a waaaahambulance? Atheists and others have the right to express their opinions here, just as you do. The majority of DUers appear to be spiritual in one way or another. We object to the sanctimonious attitude that the only "true" spirituality is Christianity.

When was the last time you showed some respect and tolerance towards Wiccans? I suspect that pagans are more tolerant toward you than you toward them.

[acmavm]

11. I've NEVER denigrated anyone's beliefs or lack of. That's the

difference between you and me.

[yardwork]

14. Provide evidence for that accusation or take it back.

Show me and the rest of the board where I have denigrated anyone's beliefs or lack of.

[acmavm]

15. Case closed...

<snip>

And the "shitty behavior" towards people who believe in God here in DU - do you need somebody to call you a waaaahambulance? Atheists and others have the right to express their opinions here, just as you do. The majority of DUers appear to be spiritual in one way or another. We object to the sanctimonious attitude that the only "true" spirituality is Christianity.

When was the last time you showed some respect and tolerance towards Wiccans? I suspect that pagans are more tolerant toward you than you toward them.

<snip>

I don't care who expresses their opinion. I've never ever entered into an insult match when anyone ever did. And I owe you no apology.

[IndianaJones]

16. bigotry based on religion seems to be acceptable here...

especially if it is a minority within that religion.

[Marr]

17. I'd love to see you step into an atheist's shoes for a day.

I wasn't raised with religion myself, so I never even realized there was any taboo against being an atheist. When I was 16 and working in my first job, one of the guys on this crew brought up religion and ceremony and such. Everyone there was either Catholic or Babtist (about 6-8 of us total). After a while, one of them asked me what my faith was, and I said casually that I didn't have one, and that I was an atheist.

Three of them just went apeshit-- started calling me names, everything from "idiot" to "filthy", to... you name it. They were really angry. I was so surprised that I didn't know what to say. I thought they must be playing around or something, but they weren't. One of made a point of communicating my lack of godliness to the supervisor, and apparently he agreed with them, because I was on shit duty for the remainder of my time on that job. I eventually quit and just got a new job.

I've had other people get weird about this sort of thing with me since, but it never surprised me again. The first time was a big wake up call.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and play martyr or anything, because it's not that big of a deal. I just don't discuss these issues with anyone that might be in a position to cause a problem. There are assholes out there, and I can accept that. But this country, and this party, is exceedingly accomodating to people of faith.

[yardwork]

19. My son has experienced the same kind of bigotry

He openly espouses atheism, and as a result he gets all kinds of grief from his peers and even his peers' parents.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

20. IMO atheists shouldn't proselytize..

A lot of people of faith are strongly threatened by anyone who professes atheism.

Your son is asking for trouble, I took the Darwin fish off my car after it had been keyed twice in the three months I had the symbol on there. No more vandalism in the several years since.

But then I live in the Bible Belt..

The best way to influence people to respect atheism, again IMO, is to act as a decent, scrupled person and if anyone bothers to ask your religion tell them very gently that you do not believe in a god, you just do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. Leave the "A" word out of it, a huge number of people react negatively just to the word.

Sort of like the old saying about "Don't tell me you're a Christian, let me figure it out".

Don't tell them you're an atheist, let them figure it out.

[yardwork]

21. He doesn't proselytize. He generally uses your approach.

I'll tell him your tip about not using the "A" word, though. That might help. He's fourteen, and we live in the Bible Belt. He decided that he was an atheist when he was in the second grade. I'm not sure where he got the idea. I'm not an atheist and neither is his dad. As far as I know, he doesn't know any atheists. Then again, he surfs the web...

[The Vinyl Ripper]

18. I will admit that some atheists get hostile toward some theists..

But it is by and large a reflection of how atheists are treated in American society.

And if you look with truly open eyes you will find that hostility is matched equally on both sides.

Some of us on DU live in areas of the country where Christianists are either a majority or a very vocal large minority. Putting up with such people on a daily basis is very trying to those who do not share their particular religious persuasion.

[tridim]

4. Religion has nothing to do with politics BY DESIGN.

It's practically the basis for our entire system.

In other words, when I say "religion sucks" (and I do agree with that for the most part), I'm not making a political statement, I'm just expressing my opinion.

[yardwork]

8. That's not true. Both Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton talk about their faith.

Obama talks about his faith. Hilary Clinton talks about her faith. John Kerry goes to Mass every single week. Kucinich only recently came around to the pro-choice point of view, he is so strongly Catholic.

Believe me, I know because I've been watching. As a pagan, I'd love to see a Democrat run for office who didn't feel obligated to "prove" his or her Christian credentials every minute.

It's the right wing machine that spreads the lie that Democrats don't care about religion. Don't believe it for a minute.