U.S. Guns Bolster Mexican Traffickers

[billbuckhead]

U.S. Guns Bolster Mexican Traffickers

By IOAN GRILLO Associated Press Writer

August 15,2007 | MEXICO CITY -- Authorities are sounding the alarm about an influx of assault rifles, armor-piercing pistols and fragmentation grenades from the United States, weapons that they say are increasingly being used to kill police and soldiers fighting drug cartels.

U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials report a sharp increase in both the flow and firepower of U.S. weapons across the border. Particularly worrisome are assault rifles and "cop-killer" pistols.

Mexico has strict firearms laws, few gun stores and a mere 4,300 private licensed gun holders among its 105 million people. The United States, with nearly as many guns as people, has more than 100,000 licensed gun sellers, an industry that makes about 2.8 million small arms a year, and gun laws so loose that arms traffickers easily pick up any weapons they need.
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<http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8R1LDEO1.html>

But assault rifles don't so hardly harm anybody according to the black rilfe crowd.

[villager]

1. we can't interfere with the Drug Cartels' 2nd Amendment "rights" as defined by the NRA!

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. True story about oh fifteen years old

I was a medic in Tijuana, yep crazy thing I did during the weekend while going to school

We picked up an American and we took him to the border

As we got there on the Mexican side there was this buss, passenger, with army troops surrounding it, and Federal agents taking all kinds of firearms out.

On the Ameircan side they were doing a major drug bust

Both had media

So I told a reporter, why are you guys NOT filming each other?

The answer...

They are not related

I shit you not, they are not related.

We transfered patient to American EMS and both us and INS agents were incredolous at the press attitude, on both sides mind you

[benEzra]

3. Funny, "assault rifles, armor-piercing pistols and fragmentation grenades"

August 15,2007 | MEXICO CITY -- Authorities are sounding the alarm about an influx of assault rifles, armor-piercing pistols and fragmentation grenades from the United States, weapons that they say are increasingly being used to kill police and soldiers fighting drug cartels.

Funny, "assault rifles, armor-piercing pistols and fragmentation grenades" aren't legal for civilian sale in the United States outside of law enforcement, except to people who obtain Federal authorization (assuming by "armor piercing pistols," they mean pistols with armor-piercing ammunition). Neither are RPG's, which have also been involved in some recent drug-cartel conflicts in Mexico. Possession of any of those things by an unauthorized non-LEO civilian is a 10-year Federal felony.

Those weapons are, however, freely available in Central and South America, thanks to the numerous guerrilla wars and whatnot during the Cold War and after.

I don't doubt that there is probably some handgun smuggling going on, but if someone is finding grenades, machineguns, and AP pistol ammunition, it didn't come from the U.S. civilian market. From theft from the U.S. military, maybe; theft from the law-enforcement supply chain, maybe; from the civilian market, no.

[billbuckhead]

13. There's little enforcement out of the NRA controlled White House

It's all just more gun nut terrorism spreading from America's military industrial complex gun lobby and it's pathetic minions.

[benEzra]

14. So, you're saying that grenades, automatic weapons, and AP pistol ammunition

are readily available for black-market sale in the United States, and that the BATFE purposely ignores it, even though the NRA supports the existing Federal restrictions on those weapons and ordnance?



No, such weapons are NOT readily available on the U.S. civilian market. If drug cartels in Mexico are using them, they're getting them the same place they get their RPG's--not here--unless there is diversion going on from U.S. military or police armories.

[billbuckhead]

16. The Mexicans are just lying because?

[benEzra]

19. No, I suspect the reporter (or possibly a spokesperson) jumped to conclusions

based on his/her misperception that machineguns, frag grenades, and AP pistol ammo are available to non-LEO civilians in the United States, which is of course not the case.

[michreject]

4. What's a "cop-killer" pistol?

:wtf: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Its not the pistol

its the ammo

It is coated and can go through body armor

[michreject]

8. Bullshit

There are several handgun rounds on the market today that can penetrate body armor, and none of them are coated. Most notably the FN 5.7. whose round are limited as to whom can purchase them. I cast bullets using a lead/antimony/tin mixture. These bullets are hard. They can penetrate. Masterblaster or Percision bullets are coated and the will not penetrate.

The so called cop killer bullets, better known as KTW, have been out of production for years.

[FyurFly]

9. Most any modern deer rifle cartridge makes quick work of body armor n/t

[benEzra]

10. Any vest rated to stop .357 Magnum will stop the FiveSeven...

of course, both the .357 and the 5.7x38mm (comparable to .22 magnum rimfire) can fire police/military-only bullets that can penetrate soft body armor, but that's why such ammunition has been restricted by Federal law to police/military only since 1986. With civilian ammunition, .357 and 5.7x28mm loads are stopped by armor meeting the NIJ Level II standard, and even some of the law-enforcement-only ammunition won't penetrate IIIA.

FWIW, AP has nothing to do with any coating; AP is made of hard materials and is pointy, so that it concentrates the projectile's momentum on as few fibers as possible.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm

[FyurFly]

5. Face it Bill

Black Rifles as you refer to them are here to stay, I and many others will put our lives on the line to protect our RKBA. :patriot:

[billbuckhead]

12. There here to stay cause they're miltary weapons

or for the "law abiding", fake military weapons. I agree with Wes Clark that if you love assault rifles so very very much then you should be in the army right now, they could use you.

[benEzra]

15. Ignarus fatur.

There here to stay cause they're miltary weapons or for the "law abiding", fake military weapons. I agree with Wes Clark that if you love assault rifles so very very much then you should be in the army right now, they could use you.

Ignarus fatur.

Small-caliber non-automatic rifles with good ergonomics aren't popular because they're "military weapons"; show me a single military in the WORLD that uses non-automatic civilian AR-15's, or non-automatic AKM variants in 7.62x39mm. No military in the world uses such guns, because they're NOT military grade weapons, but CIVILIAN guns, made exclusively for civilians.

Civilian AR's are popular because they are extremely accurate, soft shooting, economical to shoot compared to full-power rifles, versatile, modular, and have great ergonomics. They dominate centerfire target rifle competition in this country...

I shoot competitively with my "AK", BTW...if you didn't live so far away, I'd invite you to shoot it yourself. I think it would dispel a lot of your misconceptions about what shooting a carbine is like. It's Zen, not Rambo...

[billbuckhead]

17. Why can't you just use a freaking air rifle for your "competition"?

Not macho enough?

[benEzra]

21. Same reason my wife has never fenced with a cardboard epee...

Why can't you just use a freaking air rifle for your "competition"?

Not macho enough?

Same reason my wife has never fenced with a cardboard epee; for some strange reason, she prefers a steel one. I don't think it was because the cardboard wasn't macho enough for her; I think it had more to do with functional considerations, though aesthetics may have played a part.

I have never practiced archery with Nerf arrows either, nor do I carve and eat a steak with plastic utensils. Do you?

The little 7.62x39mm is a good caliber for all-around use. It's a decent 200-yard target cartridge, is adequate for deer hunting if you limit the range to 100 yards or so, and is adequate for defensive use given intelligent load selection. Just like the old .30-30 Winchester, the Western cartridge which it most resembles ballistically. .223 Remington would be even a little better for competition, but is too weak to hunt deer with, so it's a little less versatile. I'll probably switch to an AR in .223 someday, but for now I am enjoying the 7.62x39.

FWIW, for me, competition is both an end in itself, and a means to other ends, i.e. honing the ability to handle a defense-capable firearm competently and safely under pressure. You're always complaining about how gunnies aren't trained enough...

[billbuckhead]

23. Pretty weak excuse

:nopity:

[Man_in_the_Moon]

18. Dont you mean Himmler?

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA. Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State." -- Heinrich Himmler 1936

[derby378]

24. So, you're saying that anyone who loves the Second Amendment should die in an illegal war?

To follow your logic to its eventual terminus...

[billbuckhead]

25. I think all this gun worship in the USA helps lead to imperialism.

Americans are brainwashed into thinking they can win any gun battle and that leads to promiscuous use of guns here and abroad.

I think Wes Clark was saying that these type guns are a miltary tool and should only be used as such.

[bamacrat]

6. Legalize pot and a lot of the "cartels" will go out of business.

Concentrate on stopping the flow of dangerous drugs (cocaine, heroin etc) and legalize, regulate and tax weed. The government could make it cheaper than you could get it on the street and make shit loads of money.

[derby378]

11. And how many AK-47s are floating around in Columbia, Venezuela, Guatemala, etc.?

As far as Mexican traffickers are concerned, if the US government starts banning semi-automatic rifles, no problem - they'll just buy FULL-AUTOMATIC rifles on the black market in Central and South America.

So we might as well keep our Second Amendment rights instead of running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

[Romulox]

20. So more people in jail is the solution to the interminable Drug War?

Perhaps we need another surge here at home?:crazy:

[benEzra]

22. Not to hijack the thread, but i saw an interesting article in the NYT this morning...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/us/17spy.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Spy satellites, which provide higher-resolution photographs than commercial satellite imagery, and in real time, have traditionally been used overseas to monitor terrorist movements and nuclear tests. Their expanded use in domestic surveillance marks a new era in intelligence gathering, conjures up images of “Big Brother in the sky,” and raises civil liberties concerns.

“This touches so many Americans, it can’t be allowed to be discussed behind closed doors,” said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union.

The new data sharing comes as Congress passed legislation this month that broadened the Bush administration’s authority to eavesdrop without warrants on some Americans’ international communications.

...

Mr. Allen...said the effort might eventually share information with domestic law enforcement officials but only after a careful review that would take several months.

I suspect the review will endorse it. They're already using the "Patriot Act" powers in domestic drug cases, and it just so happens that spysats capable of multispectral imaging would be just the thing for monitoring rural areas for the spectral signature of cannabis plots, and scanning roofs for the heat signatures of grow lamps. Methinks the War on Non-Approved Herbs will continue to escalate for a while longer, until the Powers that Be come to their senses about it.