Just woke up....Democrats Caved. Game Over.

[spanone]

Senate vote gives temporary boost to Bush's eavesdropping power


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate, in a high-stakes showdown over national security, voted late Friday to temporarily give President Bush expanded authority to eavesdrop on suspected foreign terrorists without court warrants.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/03/fisa.upgrade.ap/index.html

[kansasblue]

1. I like to hear Sen Web's comment on this. Lots of Dems went with this.

wHAT'S THE DEAL?

[rodeodance]

68. He has no press release about this.

[Solly Mack]

2. That's just it - it's not a game. Lives are at stake

People are dying every single day because of Bush and his "war on terror"...every single concession to a wanna-be tyrant is nothing more than a death sentence to others

[Decruiter]

3. Game over, when are we all going to "get it"?

It is game over, guys and gals. GAME OVER! Find your place in the fishbowl or else you just might be rich enough to not give a damn.

[tiptoe]

106. It wouldn't "be over" if 9/11 and Pre-War Intel & Election Fraud Investigations were opened. nt

[spanone]

4. just an expression, it's certainly NOT a game. Civil Liberties Over.

[Solly Mack]

5. I know you know that, spanone..and I know it's just an figure of speech

But a lot of people do think of it as a game...an actual game...

[tiptoe]

108. "It does contain the six-month sunset that we insisted upon, and that gives us an immediate...

opportunity and responsibility to come back and strike the right balance."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1510523&mesg_id=1510846

Statement from Senate Intelligence committee chairman Jay Rockefeller:

We all agreed Congress needed to take immediate action in order to help keep the country safe, and the Senate did that tonight.

My opposition to the final bill was based on the fact that it did not include the privacy protections and safeguards American citizens deserve and expect.

We had the opportunity to pass a more careful bill that would have given the DNI the authority he requested, while also protecting the rights of U.S. citizens.

Instead, this bill undermines the FISA Court and concedes unprecedented authority to the Attorney General.

It does contain the six-month sunset that we insisted upon, and that gives us an immediate opportunity and responsibility to come back and strike the right balance.

[G_j]

8. I'm in agreement

giving an arsonist another can of gasoline (though a smaller can than he wanted) is insane.

[indepat]

15. The system is too broken to be fixed: the corruption and venality just run too deep

[debbierlus]

51. I don't know if it is too broken, I think we just don't have the will

As horrendous as Bush & the Congress are behaving, we have a largely apathetic public who allows this to continue. We have all the tools necessary to stop this insanity in our constitution, but we are not utilizing them. Those tools are not for the government alone, they are largely for the people.

It is us, ultimately, who have allowed this to occur. We hold our representatives to a VERY low standard, (or no standard).

We are in deep, deep, deep trouble.

[sendero]

6. A few months ago..

.... a lifetime friend of mine was ranting at me over the phone (we take turns :)).

He said the Dems were no better than the republicans. That they were enabling Bush at every turn.

I told him he was crazy, but I'm starting to agree with him. It's like they are all drinking the kool aid. Pelosi has DINNER withthe oh charming one, and the next day she's caving AGAIN.

I'm sick of this shit. I'll probably not be here much longer, because it's becoming impossible for me to self-identify as a Democrat. I can hear the 'don't let the door hit you' comments already, and who cares. At some point you just have to say enough is enough. The existing FISA laws WERE NO IMPEDIMENT TO THE WAR ON TERROR AND THE STUPID SONS OF BITCHES WHO VOTED FOR THIS NEW LAW KNOW IT.

[Nimrod2005]

18. Amen.....I am so fucking sick of these assholes

[barbtries]

39. i feel sort of the same

i mostly lurk these days. but it's like my capacity for outrage has been stripped. hope is fading daily. and in my REAL life, i can't afford the rent any more so we gotta find a place to live. whatever sparks energize me are being sprayed into oblivion and gw is still president and a war that never should have happened is skipping right along, enriching the bad guys and killing innocents. the entire administration is giving the finger to congress and the democrats still speak of them with respect. they deserve nothing but contempt, and prison. i'm tired.

[debbierlus]

50. They are corporatists, not representatives of the people

[sarcasmo]

83. The new party, we shall call them the

Corporate WHORE Party.


CWP

[Ladyhawk]

105. I'm already mostly gone.

I pop in from time to time to see the obvious sinking in.

It's all a dog and pony show. The Democrats are at best, at joke; at worst, their in collusion. Working within the system is a joke. There has to be another way.

My health sucks too much for me to be active, but this was passed my way. Maybe it's worth having a look: http://www.foavc.org/

[UKProPeace]

7. Bloody centrists

it's the same here in Britain....it's always the centrist enablers who allow such authoritarian, anti democratic measures to proceed, we should all be/should already have been actively targeting the centrists in both our countries at election time.

[rzemanfl]

9. Welcome to DU! It is so nice to see someone new at DU who

doesn't live under a bridge and eat billy goats for supper. If you don't get that comment, you will after you've been around here a bit longer.

[UKProPeace]

10. Thanks rze, and hi....I think I do get what you've said eom

[barbtries]

41. i've been here for a couple years, i think,

and i don't get it?! :)

[rzemanfl]

55. I was saying troll without saying troll. n/t

[barbtries]

58. ok, thanks!

[rzemanfl]

81. I wore the grooves off of an old 78 rpm record of "The Three

Billygoats Gruff" many years ago. "I'm a troll, fol-de-rol, and I'll eat you for supper."

[OzarkDem]

12. Thanks for the insight

Interesting to know it works the same way over there. Welcome!

[UKProPeace]

72. Hi and thanks Ozark

yep, Blair certainly had plenty of the centrist enablers in his party over the years....i'm sure there'll be centrists who will enable Brown as well, but far less right wing policies I would imagine judging by the evidence so far.

[OzarkDem]

77. How did you folks deal with them?

What was it you did that worked in getting the centrists out?

[UKProPeace]

109. Oh there are still some in place Ozark...

just waiting for more opportunities to enable some further anti democratic and authoritarian measures, hopefully though Brown won't give them as much opportunity as Blair to do their enabling. I'm crossing my fingers in hope that this will be the case.

[tblue37]

44. Welcome to DU! n/t

[UKProPeace]

73. Thanks tblue

hi to you as well :-)

[rucky]

62. "Centrists" are the PR arm of the totalitarians.

[UKProPeace]

74. Yep, certainly seems to be the case rucky eom

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. Yes. eom

[cosmicdot]

98. knr your post

that's a good description

[rjones2818]

11. Do we have a list of Dems who voted for the bill?

It's not up at the Senate site.

[Zodiak]

17. There is another thread that lists them in GD

It is the usual suspects,.....DLCers and blue dogs.

Webb voted for it.

[rjones2818]

97. Thanks!

[bigtree]

13. what will happen in the House?

I'm not sure they've heard from all of us this morning

[zabet]

14. I am beginning to feel like the American people are just

being used by Bushco in a real-life game of effing WarCraft.
The Ogres are winning BTW. :grr:

[Nimrod2005]

16. Do we have a list of these mother fuckers Democrats who voted for it?

[spanone]

19. can't find it.

[ProSense]

20. Here:

Thank these 16 Democrats for giving Bush expanded authority to eavesdrop without a warrant.

16 Democrats who betrayed the Constitution!

[spanone]

21. thank you! Feinstien? Webb? Bayh? Jesus......

[kath]

64. Mikulski?!?!

[Mandate My Ass]

32. Casey, of course

He's every bit the nightmare I'd imagined he'd be during the primaries. fecking DINO asswipe. :grr:

[flyarm]

75. here is list:

Lincoln (D)
Pryor (D)
Feinstein (D)
Salazar (D)
Carper (D)
Nelson (D)
Inouye (D)
Bayh (D)
Landrieu (D)
Mikulski (D)
Klobuchar (D)
McCaskill (D)
Nelson (D)
Conrad (D)
Casey (D)
Webb (D)

[mzmolly]

22. A MINORITY OF DEMOCRATS on a TEMPORARY MEASURE.

44 Democrats did not "cave" on this six month foreign only authority.

[ProSense]

25. Here is a description of the temporary measure

Statement from Senate Intelligence committee chairman Jay Rockefeller:

We all agreed Congress needed to take immediate action in order to help keep the country safe, and the Senate did that tonight.

My opposition to the final bill was based on the fact that it did not include the privacy protections and safeguards American citizens deserve and expect.

We had the opportunity to pass a more careful bill that would have given the DNI the authority he requested, while also protecting the rights of U.S. citizens.

Instead, this bill undermines the FISA Court and concedes unprecedented authority to the Attorney General.

It does contain the six-month sunset that we insisted upon, and that gives us an immediate opportunity and responsibility to come back and strike the right balance.

16 Dems caved, 34 did not (6 not voting)

[mzmolly]

78. Hold those who voted for the temporary bill in the LIHOP enviroment in which we live

accountable, but lets not let the media define the entire party over this.

[spanone]

26. 16 is a lot of votes to overcome.........

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. No, 28 didn't cave in. The vote was 60-28. 16 Democrats caved in. What was worse

in the House, although they had the majority they lost the vote because it was on 2/3 vote. It was doomed to fail before it began.

[mzmolly]

76. Then hold those who voted for the bill accountable if you wish. But stop

sweeping Feingold in with Feinstein in the foaming at the mouth sessions.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

79. Can You Explain To Me Why The House Suspended The Rules And Allowed

a 2/3 Vote? A Vote For Failure??? Meanwhile, I have C-Span on from about 10AM ET this morning and still continuing is the debate on the energy bill. That will be a straight up and down vote. What the hell???? Our Civil Liberties Don't Seem To Be As Important, Do They????

As To Feingold. I adore him. I am keeping fingers and toes crossed that he'll filibuster.

[mzmolly]

80. I have no idea.

However I do have a thread here on the subject: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1512488&mesg_id=1512488

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

82. Thanks for the link but I've looked at the Senate Roll Call every which way.

It's what happened in the House that is Deeply Disturbing. As I said, they doomed the Amendment from the beginning. This way it looks good on paper for the Dems that they had the most votes, but they LOST. They Knew They Were Going To Lose. All they had to do was frigging debate it, like they are the energy bill but they didn't do it. I didn't realize they the suspended the rules and it was as if someone hit me in the gut.

The fix was in.

I told you that they helped sell us down the river with the IWR and The Patriot Act and they are going to do the same with FISA. Being a Pollyanna is lovely mzmolly but not realistic. I am old and have seen a lot. I am convinced at this point that our government has been stolen from us. Someone said the other day on the board that Bobby Kennedy Jr. said that 90% of the Republicans and 75% of the Democrats are bought and paid for. I believe him. What can we do about now? We won in November because the American people wanted change from what they thought was Republican incompetence, etc, and here are the Democrats carrying on the same way. Aiding and abetting the enemy within. Do you know about the National ID that's been voted in? Get ready at some point in the near future to have retinal scans. People are being patted down at bus stops in Indiana. My son's HS in an upper middle class neighborhood in a suburb of NYC has a lock on the doors now. You have to be buzzed into the school. They are preparing us to live in a prison society. MSM selects our candidates. I saw that when they destroyed Howard Dean's chances last go around. We are being offered up two candidates for Pres. Both bought and paid for by big corp. Rupert Murdoch who is behind Hillary did a hit piece on Edwards for her. We don't have a chance in hell.

So keep looking on the lighter side mzmolly but I can't. Looked at again in 6 months? Ha! Didn't they say that with the Patriot Act and you know what happened.

BTW... Jonathan Turley was on with Keith Olbermann last night and he believes that FISA crossed the Fourth Amendment, period. Yesterday you had the most Progressive Dems in the House vote against the Amendment because as WONDERFUL PROGRESSIVES they knew that. Too bad a House or Senate member can only vote Yes or No. Those votes were very puzzling to some DUers but not to me.

[mzmolly]

90. Actually I would say this to you as well:

"Being a Pollyanna is lovely but not realistic." It's all a matter of view point. I don't expect that every Democrat will please me every day.

As for the house, the R's are bitching about how we refuse to bring the vote to the floor. We live in an era of MIHOP,LIHOP or incompetence. I understand this is a complex issue.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

91. There is Grand Scripted Theater going on in the House. Quite a show.

It's meant to make both sides look entirely different. The Democrats I must say though are kinder and gentler but they all fall in line for the result.

[Terri S]

92. You're post is SO spot on, there's not much I could add

I keep wondering why they bother with investigations. Might as well just pat Gonzales and the whole crew on the head and say 'heckuva job'! I'm with you on being old and having seen some things. Gotta tell you..we've been thru some dark times, but nothing even approaching this. Gonna be a tough thing to fix if we ever can, and most people in this country don't have any clue just how screwn we are.

[flyarm]

95. i have whole bunch of bobble head dolls in the basement i think i am going to rename them

with the names of the 16 dems who sold this nation out..their oath to the constitution out and sold all of our children out!!..then i will smash the dolls ...because in my opinion these dems need to be taken down and thrown out of this party..today is not soon enough!

they shit on our constitution..anyone that says any different are lying!

and it is illegal to boot!

and to turn over tapping of me or my family to that mtfer gonzo..is insane!

totally insane!

or blackmail!

no other reason for this crapping on our constitution..either they have been blackmailed or they are owned by the NEW WORLD ORDER!

fly

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

96. Thank you Terri for getting it. And yes, this is the worst time I remember during my lifetime.

Not the Great Depression as my parents lived through, but we are on the precipice of one now. My younger son was told by his Dad yesterday to be prepared for it. MSM is hiding the plunging dollar and what bad shape we're in financially. Bring on more Paris and Lindsay tales. Divert the peons.

I do believe that some Americans are waking up, November proved that, but they still can't see the whole script. I posted a couple of weeks ago or so, that there was so much of what's transpired and also happening now that I predicted. I am sensitive but Not That sensitive. It is all so obvious, laid out with such contempt for us, that they do nothing to really hide it. An excellent example was the House vote last night. That is how arrogant they are. But most Americans are so busy trying to survive their own lives, civics is something they don't realize that they must make time for. I think Impeachment proceedings are A Must, To Wake Them Out Of Their Frigging Numbness and to realize what is truly at stake. To wake up and take our country back. MSM would be forced to report it. Yet shy of Shrub taking a gun and with pre-meditation shoot someone in front of live tv camera, that's never going to happen. Even then, it would probably ruled self-defense. The vote on FISA sealed it for me that this will most likely never happen.

And Terri :hi:

[Beelzebud]

42. Yeah like how the Patriot Act was only temporary.

Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Enough of this party over country bullshit.

[bettyellen]

65. temporary.... uprecedented authority to the AG.... there's no excuse for this

no matter how some might sugar coat it.

[Warren Stupidity]

70. The Emergency Measures are always 'temporary'

You are a fool. I am sorry to have to say that. It is rude. It needs to be said.

[A wise Man]

23. Bush had to get them to give him a bill

that would vindicate him of illegal spying on us as an excuse of home land security. So now if this came up in an impeachment hearing towards him or Gonzo they can't use that as a charge because now they are complicit.

[Terri S]

93. Bingo!!!!!! Just like the MCA

That one got them their war crimes 'get out of jail free' card, and this one does it with warrantless wiretapping.

[high density]

24. Why is the Senate enabling this unpopular president which hardly anybody agrees with?

I don't get it. The 2006 elections said, "Change this please!" but instead we're getting the more of the same in just about every way possible.

[spanone]

27. maybe because they know cheney is capable of inducing a terrorist attack for political gain.

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: vv

[babylonsister]

28. That's more of a reason to not give them any more power. nt

[A wise Man]

29. Nancy just said it yesterday

that "NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THAT MUCH POWER", now they turn around and give it to them. They can't use that reason to get anyone anymore, as they seem to be a part of the coup.

[broadcaster]

31. Pelosi has enabled this coup, so has Reid.

Just like when Arlen Specter gets all up into Gonzales's grill, and
then does a climb down.

I'm afraid we Democrats/Progressives are being played by Pelosi and
Reid. But, now, it matters.

[A wise Man]

33. Seems that way to me also

[Beelzebud]

43. Pelosi and Reid are the worst leaders ever. Period.

[Le Taz Hot]

54. I'm REALLY liking your sig line right about now.

So sorry I don't live in Pelosi's district.

[Lars39]

85. But she has a big gavel !

I agree.:grr:

[glitch]

37. Yep. nt

[barbtries]

57. yep

it worked once after all...

[tiptoe]

107. Let the SOB Cheney try: It then wouldn't be a "terrorist attack"...it'd be (more) treason...

...providing, too, a huge "hint" (for the clueless) about events of 9/11 (...and highlighting the testimonial evidence of Norman Mineta re Cheney behavior in bunker on 9/11, excluded from the final White House Commission report)!

[CrispyQ]

35. They are grateful to be at the trough.

Even if they aren't first in line, the seconds are worth ditching We the People for.

[Neecy]

34. what did we vote for?

The Democratic Congress has given Bush a blank check to squander our money in Iraq and continue to kill our soldiers and Iraqi civilians - check!

The Democratic Congress allows the AG to lie, perjure himself, obscure, have convenient memory lapses and piss on the Constitution and instead of impeaching his ass they hand him the power to spy on us - check!

Gitmo? Still open for business! - check!

Torture? Why not? - check!

109th Congress: Rubber stamp Republicans
110th Congress: Rubber stamp Democrats

But hey, the minimum wage has been raised! We can make marginally more money from our overlords while our 4th Amendment rights are being trampled! Whoopie!

There are certain lines that can't be crossed - and Harry Reid crossed it last night. Cowards. Un-fucking-believeable cowards.

[bvar22]

45. You may add this to your list:

The Democratic Party Leadership (Pelosi, Rangel, Emmanual) negotiate a "secret" Free Trade Deal directly with Bush*. This "secret" deal was written by Corporate Lobbyists without input or approval of LABOR Rights, Human Rights, Environmental Rights, or the Democratic Caucus.

[debbierlus]

48. Thank you, good reminder...

Also add them refusing to filibuster Alito

And, now Schumer cries...we were hoodwinked with Roberts & Alito. They tricked us. Pathetic. I remember this board working to advocate the fightfor the filibuster against Alito, & knew then what these morons are realizing now. The writing was on the wall.

I remember Obama telling us how 'divisive' we were being by demanding a filibuster of Alito. He went on national televsion & slapped us figuratively across the face. After a week of begging both Hilliary & Obama to do the right thing (and it was only after a HUGE outcry for the filibuster), they made the political calculation to vote for the filibuster (Hilliary didn't speak out against us, but she didn't lead in any way shape or form & Obama just betrayed us). At this point, they knew it would lose, so they were just covering their ass for the record of their democratic base.

[spanone]

36. so we hold hearings decrying the Justice Departments political shenanigans

then we hand over more power to gonzales....

well, democrats, stupid is as stupid does

[debbierlus]

53. Amen

[cureautismnow]

38. Can you imagine the Repukes giving Clinton this power?

I can't. :grr:

[debbierlus]

52. Absolutely not: on one side we have the sleaziest of slime balls

And, on the other, we have SPINELESS wimps.

[Beelzebud]

40. We have no opposition party.

We have 1 party that pretends to be 2 parties.

How long are we supposed to support a party that shits on us every chance they get?

[debbierlus]

46. Remember this type of thing when we start talking about a revolution

Outside of the dem party...

They aren't doing their jobs. Bush needs to be IMPEACHED & tried for WAR CRIMES.

I realize there are a FEW good democrats, but they can't overcome the unwillingness of the majority of the party to refuse to fight against the tyranny that is Bush & Co.

This is a disgrace. And, it shines a light on just how much work we need to do. We are in a very tough place, not just the Republicans we have to rally against, but many of our own 'leaders'.

I am sick to death of this shit.

[spanone]

47. they should have INSISTED that gonzales step down INSISTED

bu$h* does not compromise, why should the democrats.\

instead they gave gonzales MORE FUCKING POWER. GOOD G0D ALMIGHTY.

[Beelzebud]

49. Thats what a real opposition party would have done at the LEAST.

[wiggs]

56. They did the same thing when GOP controlled congress. No big surprise. This

has been one of the most dissappointing and mystifying aspects of the last seven years.

We're on our own and there's no opposition party.

[BlooInBloo]

59. lol! "game over". Only for wusses.

[deutsey]

60. Yeah, the game's not over...they have lots more caving left to do.

:evilfrown:

[Maven]

102. Yeah, they can still vote to put a McDonalds in at Guantanamo

Gotta "compromise," you know.

[kath]

61. The search warrant is SUCH an obsolete concept. Even more so than the Geneva Conventions.

Darn, I miss that 4th Amendment. It's deader than a doornail at this point.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

66. You had a doubt?

I didn't.

Not for a second.

[OneBlueSky]

67. this is NOT why I voted Democratic in 2006 . . . n/t

.

[rodeodance]

69. If anyone really thinks that the Senate will "fix' this in 6 months-----

they have been drinking toooooooooooo much Kool-AID!

[spanone]

71. of course not, in six months these consessions will be outdated. they will ask for more.

[trashcanistanista]

84. We work with the democrats we have

not the democrats we thought we had. It is simply more work for us to vote the traitors out in the primaries. It is certainly not a time to give up. However, I share in all the despair, at least for today.;(

[ChiciB1]

88. Does It Really Matter IF WE VOTE ANYMORE??? n/t

[Disturbed]

89. The Dems were told that the next Terrorist Attack will be blamed

on them if they don't cave to Busholini. When the next attack occurs it will be blamed on the Dems anyway. Dems just don't seem to learn anything from the past. Rethugs are authoritarians without conscience. They will do whatever they need to do to stay in power. Dems do not know how to fight against them.

[ChiciB1]

87. I KNEW Bill Nelson Was So DLC, But WEBB Is A HUGE Surprise!

What are they thinking?? How do they think the citizens of this country will support Democrats when they act this way??

I just may as well "jump ship!"

[ToeBot]

94. I've been in a bad place ever since they caved on the Alito nomination.

and it hasn't gotten one bit better. I don't think it will. The coup de grâce? A Hillary Clinton nomination.

[Maven]

99. I don't even understand why

Can someone explain it? Anyone? Do we not have a majority?

Did George Bush threaten their children? I really don't get it.

[deacon]

100. Disgraceful.

[Norwood]

101. Just wait, when the sunset on this bill comes up

Bush will demand that congress make it permanent, to "keep the country safe in this post 9/11 world" (Or whatever kind of BS talking point he happens to use). And you know what, he'll probably get it because our leaders have no spine!!

I don't know how much more I can take from our leadership, registering independent is getting more and more tempting. This is not what I voted/campaigned for in 06'.

Edit: Seeing that Webb voted yes is just killing me.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

103. our senators just voted to use our taxes to spy on us, great!

very clever!

hello Senate have you looked at the data of who is actually being spied on?

why haven't you caught Usama Bin Ladin?

[Az_lefty]

104. guess they had flights to catch and couldn't be bothered with this shit

fuck'em. Giving Gonzo any additional power considering how he has lied to every Congressional body around is just insane.
:puke:

[leaninglib]

110. The key words are "suspected foreign terrorists..."

And the reason so many Dems voted for this is the fact that it makes good sense.