Can Someone Explain What Difficulty Is In Recovering Vehicles

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

I don't understand why they can't get a big, powerful, construction crane, and have divers go down and secure vehicles to cables/ropes/etc., and then lift each car out of the water, one by one.

Am I missing something? How complicated could it be to have a crane recover each vehicle?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. They have bridge debris to deal with, for one thing

They may have to remove it before it would be safe to go after the submerged vehicles.

[snappyturtle]

2. I think the same thing....Maybe they're down in the muck and

sinking....I just don't get it either....thanks for posting.

[hobbit709]

3. Lots of problems

High currents, poor visibility, debris from bridge. It's not as easy as it looks in the movies.

[BlooInBloo]

6. You mean you can't just wave your magic wand at it? Pooh - I'm turning to Law & Order then.

[tammywammy]

10. :)

:rofl:

[Fresh_Start]

4. large pieces of bridge are on top of the cars.....

or adjacent to the cars and the bridge is moving in the river currents.

[SoCalDem]

5. The rubble is unstable, and they might create more destruction

if they start pulling stuff out before they have studied it..

I don't see why they don't just close those two locks and drain that section completely for a few days so they could assess the damage more safely.

[Vincardog]

9. Do you think the resivoir can hold 100% of the Mississippi's flow for 2 or 3 days?

[SoCalDem]

12. See why I never became an engineer

:P

[TygrBright]

18. And the area is too big to cofferdam effectively in a short time.

Although I'm guessing they'll have to cofferdam parts of it to complete the investigation.

speculatively,
Bright

[scarletwoman]

14. They already have restricted the flow, but the first attempt created more problems.

I'm just trying to summarize what I've heard from local news sources -- I live in Minnesota -- so please forgive the lack of definitative documentation.

The Army Corps of Engineers drastrically cut the flow back earlier today, but it created a sort of vacuum effect that ended up increasing the danger to the rescue teams. So now they're trying to find the most optimal flow.

A big problem is all the debris in the river -- huge chunks of concrete on top of the cars that are under water. Other problems are the strong current and murkiness of the water.

And as someone above pointed out, it's simply not possible to hold back the whole Mississippi river.

sw

[TomInTib]

7. Besides all the physical elements, those vehicle positions must be recorded.

There is going to be a huge investigation and numerous lawsuits.

Some people will spend the rest of their careers on this one.

[emulatorloo]

8. The Mississippi River is EXTREMELY powerful -- dangerous currents, etc N/T

[Bluerthanblue]

11. i believe some of them are

underneath some of the 'roadway' that collapsed into the water, and others in the tangled web of steel that used to be the 'arch' that supported the road bed. Also, the current is supposedly pretty strong even with the lock closed?- Those cars down river from the bridge remains were being battered by debris that was being washed down with the current is what i have heard.

It's frustrating to watch from a distance, and see what seems like so little really being done, but i do believe they are trying hard to get through this as quickly and safely as possible.

dragging cars through the mud and across the riverbed might rip them apart, and as crass as this sounds, ruin the hope that families hold of knowing for certian what has become of their loved one(s).


:shrug: what a terrible mess this world is...

peace,
blu

[EST]

13. Where ya gonna park the crane?

The river is pretty swift-they're trying to reduce the flow but that takes a while-and if the river is flowing at six mph and it takes ten minutes for a vehicle to sink through the sixty foot depth to the bottom-where it may roll over and over-that vehicle might well be a mile downriver.
The river is "black," meaning it's quite dirty and divers are virtually blind and going by "feel." The fall of the bridge stirs up debris which means it will be weeks before it even gets back to its normal, very dirty state. "Big Muddy" means something.

Using up divers in a six mile per hour current in what, right now, is the blindest river around, just isn't a good idea.

It's a cinch there's nobody underwater who's still alive. Do you search for bodies first and try to round up as many as possible, before they wash free and end up in New Orleans or deteriorated to the point that they are never recoverable? Each recovery of vehicle or body is an individual project.

Do you grab for vehicles and lose even more chances to recover remains so the living can perform a decent burial? What about the vehicles which are lying under twisted bridge?

This is an enormously complex undertaking and rushing into such a mess is too much like the republicans' simple minded solutions to bring on repuke utopia. The real world just doesn't work like that.

Fundamental tenet-it always takes longer and costs more.

[karlrschneider]

16. You are mostly right but the "normal state" of the Mississippi river up there

is -not- "very dirty"...it's nothing like it is 500 miles downstream.

[EST]

27. I stand corrected, thank you.

However, I just now heard from a diver on msnbc, one of the ones who've dived the wreckage, and he said the visibility was about six inches.

[karlrschneider]

28. Yes, right now it is because of all the disturbance.

I don't have an axe to grind here, just pointing out that the water in the MS river doesn't -normally- get nasty until quite a ways downstream. :D

[KitchenWitch]

32. It is always murky there

Not just because of the disturbance.

We always used to joke that it the river was like flowing mud.

[EST]

33. Yeah, the Missouri river is very muddy and contributes a huge amount

plus five hundred miles of farm and backyard runoff cannot be helping matters much.
Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting that you were being overly argumentative.

I've done a bit of night and black water diving and even thirty years ago I was hard pressed to qualify and stay qualified for black water rescue.
My hat is off to those people; their dedication is phenomenal.
You don't blow off a meeting or a practice. At least the group I was affiliated with, here in Illinois, make it very plain. If you have a difficulty showing up, no matter what it is, you had better question your desires to work with such an organization.

They cannot use and do not want anyone who might put the operation or personnel in any undue peril. There's enough danger without that.

[DonP]

15. Upstream or downstream makes a big difference

Cars that fell off on the upstream side of the bridge were either completely or partially washed under the debris by the powerful currents the river has.

The son-in-law is a diver/rescue worker and members of his team have been flown up to help out. VERY dangerous work with a lot of broken re-bar sticking out all over, currents that shift every time a car or piece of concrete is moved.

[shraby]

17. My husband suggested one of those cranes with

a powerful magnet to pull the cars up out of the water. The kind they use where they crush cars.

[TygrBright]

19. Um. Those are electromagnets. Electricity + water. Not good. n/t

[rzemanfl]

21. Great minds and all that. n/t

[Throwing Stones]

24. no one could have anticipated that water and electricity would cause a problem

[karlrschneider]

29. It is not a problem with properly insulated wiring.

Electromagnets are routinely and safely used underwater every day...even in semi-conductive salt water.

[rzemanfl]

20. Aren't those electromagnets? Could be a problem.....eom

[MissB]

25. bzzzzt

[kimsterdemster]

22. is there some kind of...

floating crane barge,ship or something?:shrug:

[TygrBright]

23. Sure, but it doesn't work so hot in rubble-filled water. n/t

[mountainvue]

26. I saw one parked there earlier today. It didn't have anything on

it yet.

[rainbow4321]

30. Maybe also out of respect for the dead victims' families?

There are most likely bodies still in those submerged cars...imagine having to explain to the families if they are given a body chopped into pieces by a crane. Plus the images of bodies potentially falling from the cars (as they are lifted by a crane) don't make for very good video and with all the news people up there it would be a hard thing to hide and/or explain.
Much like the 9/11 families not wanting their loved ones' remains scooped up and sent to the dumps w/ the Ground Zero debris.

[KitchenWitch]

31. The roadbed is shifting and not in small enough pieces to pick up and move

The currents in the Mississippi River at that location are wicked.