PLEASE READ! Making the Case for Precipitous Withdrawal.

[Mugsy]

From "Mugsy's Rap Sheet":

Making the Case for Precipitous Withdrawl.


Like most people, I’ve been opposed to the “precipitous withdrawal” option that President Bush and most Republicans have been falsely trashing Democrats with for more than a year now.

“Cut & Run!” is what they accused any Democrat of that even remotely recommended “redeployment”. Most Democrats respond by saying, “almost nobody is calling to pull all of out troops out of Iraq all at once. Just a few on the far Left.” Most Democrats have agreed with the notion that precipitously pulling ALL of our troops out of Iraq all at once would mean utter chaos in Iraq with a civil war that could very well spill over Iraq’s borders into neighboring countries. Also, that abandoning Iraq “dishonors the lives of the fallen”. Just typing this all out, the flaws in those arguments become appallingly clear.

I’ve suddenly… surprisingly… find myself to be one of those people calling for “precipitous withdrawal”, and it’s not because I don’t have the stomach for a fight or believe that we should pull out simply because the war was wrong to begin with (which it was).

A few months ago, stories started popping up of “death squads dressed in police uniforms” killing dozens… even hundreds… in Iraq. Like most people, my reaction was probably that the uniforms were stolen or perhaps the uniforms were “look-alikes”. But I figured out something today:

WE ARE NOW TRAINING, ARMING AND UNIFORMING THE IRAQI INSURGENCY! Insurgents are joining the Iraqi police and military, being given weapons and training in how to use them by our own military, donning their uniforms and going out and killing U.S. soldiers and Iraqi’s of opposing sects. And now President Bush wants to EMBED our own soldiers in with these same Iraqi’s?

(...)

(more)

[rock]

1. When you're in a hole, top digging

I concur.

[treestar]

2. Creating their own straw man

The rate of withdrawal would be a military decision or process. They just don't want the war to end, in any fashion, so they are pulling out this crap.

[Jacobin]

3. We are training and arming both sides of a civil war

Our military strategy was and is an utter disaster. Its not going to get better. Its going to get worse with us there, or with us gone.

Iraqis need to resolve their own political issues the way they are going to resolve them.

White Man's burden is 19th century thinking. They don't buy our bullshit anymore. Its time we realized that

[EVDebs]

4. Ret. Army General William Odom: U.S. Should "Cut and Run" From Iraq

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/04/144240

"He recently said, "The invasion of Iraq I believe will turn out to be the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history."

In his article Odom writes, "The wisest course for journalists might be to begin sustained investigations of why leading Democrats have failed so miserably to challenge the U.S. occupation of Iraq. The first step, of course, is to establish as conventional wisdom the fact that the war was never in the U.S." interests and has not become so." "

[stonecoldsober]

5. It's the democrats fault?

Can we at least assign blame proportionaltely?

White House - 50%
Republicans Leaders - 49%
Democratic Leaders - 1%

We'd better stop those crazy democrats ASAP!

:sarcasm:

Edited to add:

"Our unit wins every tactical battle. But the big picture, the strategic picture, we're losing. If they kill one of us for every thousand we kill -- they have over 20 million people, we have 123,000. You know, the numbers are just against us. And once one begins to look at it objectively like that, it – you’ve got to ask what this is worth, what you gain by doing this."

No, General, at a 1000 to one, we would still have 103,000 left after all Iraqis have been killed. VICTORY IS OURS!!!

:sarcasm:

[Mugsy]

8. I posted Odom's great "9 Reasons" video...

...on YouTube a while back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaOOHqrzEE

[Tom Joad]

9. Cut and Run! Its the only right thing to do with a war of aggression.

[Mugsy]

10. Alternative to C&R?

None of the alternatives to "Cut & Run" have had much appeal to me.

"Lie & Die"

"Stay & Pray"

All suck. I think we need to just say: "Stop training the insurgents!"

[EVDebs]

11. Mugsy, you nailed it ! BTW, just imagine if Congressional Dems hadn't signed onto IWR...

That 1% responsibility was all Bush needed, just like the 5-4 SCOTUS vote in the 2000 'selection'.

All it takes is ONE principled vote. Who will stand up for what's right in Congress if not principled Dems ?

[demrabble]

6. It Makes No Sense To Stay

It makes not sense -- none at all -- to have our troops remain in Iraq.

The war is an illegal invasion and occupation.

We are just making things worse by remaining there.

Each death in Iraq from now on is a waste and a tragedy.

Congress should use its power to cut off funds for troops there.

Congress should instead authorize funds ONLY for re-deployment and withdrawal efforts.

[Mugsy]

7. I feel stupid...

...that it took me so long to realize this.

[dogday]

12. Even when one steps in crap, they change the

direction of which they are walking and watch where they are walking...

This war is like a field of crap, and you have a blindfold on and have to walk across that field without stepping in a pile... good luck with that :shrug:

[Poiuyt]

13. On what do you base the statement that we are training the insurgency?

Is that just logic or intuition?

For what it's worth, I agree that we should get out completely tomorrow. Someone else mentioned an interview with Gen William Odom. He also wrote a great article dispelling myths about why we can't leave now:

Cut and Run? You Bet.
By Lt. Gen. William E. Odom
Why America must get out of Iraq now.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/60/19496

This is a MUST READ

[Vincardog]

14. ME thinks it is logic and intuition. I believe it has been reported I have no link

[Felinity]

15. Get out! Get out! Get out! K&R,

Edit to add: It will be chaos now or chaos later. There is no way to put the lid back on Pandora's box, now or later.