Q: "Barry, are you ready to break the HR record?" Bonds: "I am really pumped up."

[Buzz Clik]

[tabasco]

1. Bonds is a joke and baseball has become a joke. n/t

[malaise]

16. Name one drug test he failed

How is he different from Lance Armstrong whose records are even more unbelievable?

[Buzz Clik]

19. The "cream and the clear" by his own testimony.

Your turn: give the results of any drug test he's taken -- positive or negative.

Armstrong was tested again and again and again. Before, after, and during every Tour he raced. He never failed a test, and the test results were always announced.

Big difference.

Baseball needs Bonds and his HR record. They can have him. I haven't watched a game in years.

[malaise]

28. French doctors say otherwise n/t

[Buzz Clik]

29. If there were a shred of evidence -- non conjecture -- Armstrong would have been stripped.

It's that simple.

If baseball operated in the same way with the zero tolerance and aggressive testing as the bike tour, Bonds would have been out of baseball at least 4 years ago. The difference is simple -- the Tour wants a clean race and baseball only wants money.

If you want a better comparison to Bonds in biking, we should be talking about Floyd Landis.

But I'm curious -- do you take some level of comfort convincing yourself that it's okay for Bonds to cheat simply because others have?

[EFerrari]

54. I won't say they all do it, but most of them probably do.

Barry was targeted because he was good, because he was connected and because he was black, imho.

And no drug can give you the kind of talent Bonds has. (Not to mention, Giants fans secretly wish the whole team would take whatever they need to take to WIN a game or two, lol!)

[cboy4]

61. Another articulate answer from one of the most intelligent DUers!!

;)

[EFerrari]

63. That's "partisan", cboy4, not intelligent.

lol

:)

[cboy4]

65. LOL.....I know, but I don't want anyone else to know our

true partisan stance.

The funny thing is I just know that an overwhelming number of the Barry haters would love him if he was on their teams.

;)

[EFerrari]

67. They can't have him!

:toast:

[Egalitariat]

26. He's different b/c he admitted to using steroids. Lance has not***

nm

[cboy4]

31. I assume Tabasco won't answer your question, because Tabasco

cannot name a drug test Bonds has failed, nor name any MLB rule he has violated.

Why would the commissioner be following Bonds from city to city right now (to be there when he breaks the record), if Bonds is violating the rules? It makes no sense.

It's very interesting how Sammy Sosa gets a free pass from the fans, but not Bonds. I wonder why?

That's okay. San Francisco fans like myself will be thrilled once Barry breaks the record, and frankly, we couldn't care less what Barry haters in other cities think about him.

[malaise]

32. Flo Jo had seizures before she dropped dead

but even in death her 200 WR and Olympic win is still recognized. Everyone knew there was no way she could improve so suddenly. Everyone suspected she was on drugs and then came the seizures. Then suddenly she dropped dead after retiring.

After watching HBO's Fields of Fire over and over, I assume drugs before anyone wins anything.

Add. Sp.

[SidDithers]

43. That pictures is so telling...

Steroid boy wrapped in the American flag.

:puke:

Sid

[cboy4]

56. Awww, Sid . . . jealously is so unbecoming. ;)

I'll be at the game on Sunday when he hopefully breaks the record.

Would you be able to PM me a photo of your head exploding when it happens?

It'll bring me much joy. hehehehe

[YankmeCrankme]

53. You realize that the clear and the cream were undetectable back then (nt)

[spoony]

90. How amusing

You're all over the place condemning religious people for believing in fairy tales etc etc, yet here you are gobbling up the most astonishing pile of bullshit about Bonds. I'm sure his head just blew up like a Macy's balloon naturally. Lol.

[tabasco]

94. Who said anything about drugs?

The guy is a fucking asshole.

[muntrv]

2. He's at 754, 1 short of Hammerin' Hank.

[emilyg]

6. Bonds will never replace Hank in my heart.

[opiate69]

9. And he's 104 short of the REAL world home run king.

[Buzz Clik]

18. Oh! Henry!

[Zywiec]

3. It looks like he's pumped up! n/t

[sakabatou]

4. LMAO @ pic

[Buzz Clik]

5. The inset (with pants dropped) is hilarious

[DefenseLawyer]

7. Bonds is a jerk

but it seems ridiculous to single him out as being a "fraud" when perhaps the majority other players, including the pitchers he was facing, were doing the same thing. Slap hitting shortstops were suddenly hitting 40 home runs; pitchers throwing 95 mph into their 40's; Mark Maguire with a huge bottle of andro in his locker, etc. etc. But Bonds is a dick, so he gets singled out.

[Oeditpus Rex]

23. Bonds gets 'singled out' (no pun intended) because

1. He's on the verge of breaking baseball's most hallowed record, so he's far more in the public eye than any other ballplayer;

2. He's the only ballplayer who's actually been involved in a court case over steroids (the BALCO scandal) — and he apparently committed perjury while testifying.

Now — what slap-hitting shortstops suddenly hit 40 homers? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

45. His 'tude hasn't helped either. But, what I notice is that chip

he used to haul around on his shoulder is shrinking all the time -- and, not since the court case but since he had kids. When he first came to SF, I couldn't stand the guy even though I was a big fan of his dad's. But, he really has mellowed out quite a bit, imho.

And yeah -- who are those shortstops and should I take down my shrine to Chris Speier? :)

[Oeditpus Rex]

47. Hell, no!

Next to Omar Vizquel (whom I saw in his first year in the minors), Speier was the best shortstop the Giants have had since they moved West. Hell, even *I* liked the guy.

And I say that having once gotten Tito Fuentes' autograph. :)



Oooo! To what trivia question is Royce Clayton the answer? :7

[EFerrari]

51. Don't even start. I give!

Once when Speier was on the injured list, my first bastard and my kid ran into him in a hamburger joint here in the SF Bay Area. They were nice and waited until he'd finished his meal, then they forced him to give them an autograph for me on a napkin! "Dear Beth, God bless."

:woohoo:

[Oeditpus Rex]

57. God bless?

Was he part of the Giants' "God Squad"?

I'll never forget the Fuentes autograph. It was probably 1966, and a bunch of us were around his car as he left the players' parking lot. He even spoke to us; he said, "Hey, don' poosh!" :D



Answer to trivia question: Clayton was the first batter to face Jim Morris when Morris made his big-league debut at age 35 with Tampa Bay in 1999. (In "The Rookie," Morris struck out Clayton on three pitches. IRL, Clayton fouled off one.)

[EFerrari]

62. Pfft! My mom and my aunt flirted with Tito in Spanish before every game

they went to.

They were married and he loved it, threw balls to them over the fence. This was 'way pre "Bull Durham". :)

Tito was great. OTOH, I took my youngest to Spring training one year and learned a lot about the guys by how they walked from their cars, through the crowd of kids and into the gates. Whatshis name, 1st base hotshot -- Will Clark -- lied to kids and told them he'd be back to sign. He never came back. Matt Williams pulled his golf clubs out of his trunk, hauled them up to the gate, and signed for the kids for nearly half an hour. What a contrast.

[Oeditpus Rex]

64. I imagine Clark had other stuff to do

He was a nice guy — really. I met him during his three-month minor league career with Fresno.

Hey, did you see his post-game interview with Gary Park on KTVU when the Giants clinched the NL West in '87? If you did, you know what I'm talking about. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

66. No! Is it up somewhere?

This has nothing to do with Jeff Leonard, does it?

[Oeditpus Rex]

68. Nuh-uh

That was later, wasn't it? :shrug:

I dunno if it's on YouTube or anything, though it'd sure be worth a look.

Clark was talking to Park while the champagne flew, with all that boyish exuberance goin' full-tilt, and he said — and this was live, mind you — "I've been waitin' for this since fuckin' high school!"

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

70. LOL! They were all really young because Charlie Fox

kept buying young players and turning them over. Jerry Johnson, Speier, Clark, who else? As soon as they showed any sign of success, he'd sell them -- especially our pitchers.

They didn't have time to get the patter down. lol

But I remember that Clark and Leonard got into it and finally, that's why Leonard was cut.

[Oeditpus Rex]

83. We used to call him 'Charlie Chocks'

Pop a Chocks, it's fun to dooooo...

I can't remember what was behind the Clark-Leonard thing, though. A lotta guys thought "One flap down" was bush, but I doubt that's all there was to it.

[YankmeCrankme]

50. there was a SS for the Diamondbacks...

Can't remember his name but he went from hitting 10-15 homers to 30-40 in the late 90's early 00's. Used to play for Pittsburgh I think.

[Oeditpus Rex]

59. Jay Bell

He had that one "breakout" year, 1999, with 38 homers. In the four seasons before that, he hit 13, 13, 21 and 20, then dropped to 18 in 2000. He hit 16 with Pittsburgh in 1991.

Yeah — suspicious, but hardly conclusive. :shrug:

[YankmeCrankme]

74. Yeah, probably just an anomaly

I thought he had better totals than that. Just remembering wrong. :)

[Oeditpus Rex]

79. Or, he could've juiced and peaked that year

and then gotten scared off it for whatever reason.

There's no way I believe only four or five guys have juiced, but I'll be damned if I believe it's half of baseball.

[DefenseLawyer]

72. Bonds is the only player "involved"

with the BALCO scandal? Not hardly: Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Benito Santiago, Jeremy Giambi, Bobby Estalella and Jason Grimsley were all Balco customers . He is the only player involved in the Balco scandal that is almost universally despised, but he is certainly not the only player involved. As far has the sudden power among heretofore nonpower hitters Jay Bell and Brett Boone and Brady Anderson spring to mind and there are plenty of others if you had been paying attention.

[Oeditpus Rex]

81. Sorry, I should've said 'the only one to testify'

And I'm not even sure about that. He may just be the only one I know to have testified.

Point being, though, Bonds has a much higher profile than any others accused of doping — and not just because of all his homers.

[cboy4]

39. Exactly. I don't deny that Bonds is a joke, but the major

problem I have is the double standard you have so accurately spelled out.

[ProudDad]

8. There should be an asterisk next to Babe Ruth's name

he broke the record on booze and cigarettes...

[DefenseLawyer]

10. But did he face all the best pitchers of his era?

No, not the African American ones. Maybe he needs that asterisk after all.

[YankmeCrankme]

20. Doubt he needs an asterisk

Does Barry Bonds face all the best pitchers of his day? No, not really. Since many top athletes that may have played baseball go off into many other fields baseball doesn't get all the top athletes anymore and that's been going on for a few decades. When Babe played there was only one real sport in the US...baseball. Baseball was America's sport, nothing else was close. So, even if black Americans were banned from playing the best white players did. Although there are many factors, the fact, is there are a tremendous amount of sub mediocre players in professional baseball making it much easier for the top players to produce great statistics.

Babe Ruth needs no asterisk for his accomplishments...and he didn't do it with artificial enhancements, just like Henry Aaron didn't.

Oh, and to all you who say Barry never tested positive...that's why it was called "the clear". It was undetectable by current methods in use at the time.

[trumad]

30. The Babe didn't play against Black ballplayers.

[YankmeCrankme]

33. Yes...you are correct, but what does that have to do with what I said?

Babe missed playing against some good players, so does Barry. Whether it is because they weren't allowed or because they have other things to do besides baseball, what's the difference?

[trumad]

37. some good players? LOL

They were the best ball players in the world.

[YankmeCrankme]

44. There were great ones and not so great ones...

Are you saying that all black ballplayers are better than anyone else?

[Oeditpus Rex]

55. I get SO tired of this argument

The implication that, well, Negro League players were all simply better than their fairer-skinned counterparts is at least absurd, and at most impossible to qualify.

[spoony]

91. The whole bit reminds me of that Jimmy the Greek

Got in trouble for saying that black people were better athletes because of slavery breeding didn't he?

[Oeditpus Rex]

92. Something like that

But racism, or reverse racism, aside, the evidence about Negro Leaguers is almost purely anecdotal, since so few records survive. Many people seem to think a league that had Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Cool Papa Bell and a few other legends was filled with "better-than-white" talent, but there's just no way to qualify that.

Mind you, I'm not saying the "banned" black players weren't better. I'm saying we just don't know.

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. Has Bonds?

Did Aaron? Ted Williams? Joe DiMaggio?

Did any ballplayer face all the best pitchers of his era?

And why does being black seem to automatically make one a better ballplayer?

I don't get this argument. I really don't. :shrug:

[YankmeCrankme]

42. Well, the best black players would have replaced lesser

talented white players and the quality of opponents would have increased since the number of major league players remained static. As the leagues expanded and other sports activities expanded there were more opportunities for the premier athletes to pursue other than baseball, so, relative to the previous eras, the overall quality has diminished, in my opinion.

[dorkulon]

11. Those aren't exactly performance enhancing drugs.

Kinda different.

[WillyT]

13. Plus...

Back then, there was no ground rule double. If it bounced on the outfield and went over the fence, it was a home run.

And ain't it strange, that for all the guys that took steroids, only Bonds is chasing and passing Aaron's record. Gotta be some talent in the mix, eh?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

14. What, they all stopped?

:shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

17. There were many differences back then. What impact did it have?

How many of Babe's HRs would have been ground rule doubles today? Would he have been credited with more homers if some of the others rules (disfavorable to calling an HR) would have been changed during his career?

Regardless, the record he's chasing is Aaron's. For Hank, there will be no asterisks. No BALCO, no monkey business with the "clear and the cream."

[Oeditpus Rex]

21. None of Ruth's homers would've been ground-rule doubles

under the rule adopted by the American League in 1930.

[WillyT]

35. Except That He Played Ball From 1914 To 1935

So for at least 16 years, they would have been home runs. He had 516 HR's before that rule took effect.

:shrug:

[Oeditpus Rex]

46. You misunderstand

None of Ruth's homers before 1930 bounced into the stands.

[WillyT]

49. That's Pretty Hard To Believe, Statistically, But I'll Take You Word For It

Who'd a thunk THAT???

:shrug:

[Oeditpus Rex]

52. I read it about 35 years ago

I admit it's kinda hard to believe, yeah — especially considering that Ruth's big flies generally had a high arc. Maybe it had something to do with the shapes of ball yards back then. :shrug:

[YankmeCrankme]

48. You realize that many parks back than had enormous outfields

How many homers did he lose because the fences were so far back and only got a triple or were caught. As many or more than what would have been called a ground rule double today? Who knows. Babe had a tremendous amount of triples when he was young, maybe it had to do with what would have been a homer became a triple because of the large outfields. You can go back and forth with what would have been, could have been because of the era he played, but the fact is that he didn't cheat to produce his numbers. Babe had advantages that Barry doesn't and Barry has advantages that Ruth didn't. Unfortunately, Bonds choose to use a chemical advantage that a lot people consider cheating.

[YankmeCrankme]

22. Nobody denies Bonds' talent

He is arguably the best player of his generation and one of the best of all time, without steroids. That's what is so revealing about Bonds, the need to cheat. His ego was so large he had to cheat even while he was the best in his sport. One can understand cheating to get an edge if you aren't as good as the other guy, but when you are better and you cheat. That's something.

Bonds, without steroids, based on previous performance, would have probably passed Mays, but not Ruth or Aaron.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Lewis Black had it absoultely right on the Daily Show the other night

"People hated Jackie Robinson because he was black. People hate Barry Bonds because he's a cheating douchebag."

[Initech]

41. That's why Lewis Black rules.

[Forkboy]

15. Don't tell me he ain't using them....

:evilgrin:

[HughBeaumont]

27. Barry Biafra

You just WRONG is all you are.

:evilgrin:

[Poiuyt]

34. That is hilarious!!

:rofl:

[cureautismnow]

25. Maybe there will be a strike ... n/t

[Subdivisions]

36. Bonds: "I am really pumped up."

That's an understatement.

Is that a confession?

[Colobo]

38. Aaron > Bonds.

[Initech]

40. I'm going to the game on Tuesday. Dodgers v. Giants. I fear for my safety.

Can you imagine what will happen if Bonds breaks the HR record in Dodger Stadium? Holy crap. :scared:

[EFerrari]

58. Take your duct tape!

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

60. Not much

He'll get booed, yeah. But Dodgers fans are notoriously laid back compared to many others.

Now, imagine if it were A-Clod and he did it in Boston.

:hide:

[EFerrari]

69. Oh, right! Laid back Dodger fans!

lol

[cboy4]

71. Still, he gets booed In L.A. far more intensely than in ANY other

N.L. city.

N.Y. and Philadelphia aren't far behind, but no fans hate him more than Dodger fans.

[EFerrari]

73. Because the Dodgers have no issues with the Giants!

lol

[cboy4]

75. LOL.....I went to a Giants game in L.A. one year, and I would have

been treated better had I showed up as a member of Al-Qaeda!!!!

[EFerrari]

77. I've been to games at Candlestick where there were fights

not only in the park but in the parking lot on the way out! LOL! And those people chose to have fist fights instead of beating the traffic!

:rofl:

[cboy4]

84. I know! Well, I'd rather be a Dodger fan going to games in S.F., than

Boston fans going to games at Yankee Stadium! :

:scared:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwBa3XA3Sl4

[Oeditpus Rex]

76. Issues, sure

When we play 'em, I wanna beat 'em 56-2. But I gotta admit Dodgers fans just aren't very good baseball fans. I wish they had the devotion of Giants fans, or Red Sox or Cubs or a few others.

[EFerrari]

78. The secret of being a Giants' fan is, you have to be in it for the game

not for the winning. :rofl:

[cboy4]

80. That hurt.

:cry:


hehehehe

[EFerrari]

82. Winning comes and goes. But the Game lives.

Maybe I should write a book: The Tao of Giants' Fans

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

85. Yeah, and because of that

they're among the most knowledgeable fans in baseball. Last night, somebody threw back Ramirez' homer that gave the lead back to the Fish after the Giants tied it in the sixth.

You'd never see that in Ellay because it might interrupt something with a beach ball. :eyes:

[EFerrari]

86. My first bastard threw back a Pete Rose hr ball

because we sort of loathed the fact that he combined genius with dirty tricks. (We were young.)

Another time, one of my friends took off his glasses and ran up to the ump with them when Rose was called safe.

These were some of my favorite things.

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

87. I never baited umps

I used to get drunk with some of 'em and they became friends. :)

You wanna find out what's really goin' on in baseball, drink with umpires. They hear it all because managers talk about stuff during the meeting at home, or even during arguments, and catchers complain to 'em the whole game. Then a guy'll come up to bat and say, "Wha'd that fucker say about me?" And, of course, the umps will make it sound worse than it was, and the other catcher will take it back to his dugout. And so it goes.

Man, I loved that. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

88. I bet! LOL!

That's awesome. lol

[Initech]

89. Exactly.

I've been to a couple Dodgers v. Giants games in the last two years. The Dodgers fans have a hatred for Bonds not seen anywhere else in the entire league, except for maybe Red Sox fans and Johnny Damon.

[cboy4]

93. HIT TWO TONIGHT BARRY!

:patriot:

[Buzz Clik]

95. 755* and 756*.

zzzzzzZZZZZzzzzZZZZ