Was Truman Anti-Semitic And Does It Matter?

[oberliner]

Former President Harry Truman accepted his wife’s rule to never permit Jews in their home, according to a new book. Does this prove that Truman was anti-Semitic? And does it matter if he was?

The new allegation concerning the Trumans appears in the book Presidential Courage: Brave Leaders and How They Changed America 1789-1989, by Michael Beschloss, published by Simon & Schuster.

According to Beschloss, when talk-show host David Susskind asked the ex-president, in 1953, why he had never been invited to the Truman home despite their many interviews, Truman replied: “You’re a Jew, David, and no Jew has ever been in the house. Bess runs it, and there’s never been a Jew inside the house in her or her mother’s lifetime.” Beschloss also reports that in a private letter to his wife in 1957, Truman referred to New York City as “the U.S. capital of Israel.”

The latest revelation follows other unpleasant discoveries about the former president. Four years ago, researchers found a Truman diary entry from 1947 which declared: “The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs, or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D Ps as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial, or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the underdog.”

Prof. Michael Cohen’s book, Truman and Israel, previously revealed Truman’s remarks calling New York City “kike town”; referring to his Jewish friend and business partner, Eddie Jacobson, as his “Jew clerk”; and writing to Bess about someone in a poker game who had “screamed like a Jewish merchant.” Yet it is also true that Truman was more sympathetic to creating a Jewish state than was his State Department, and he quickly extended U.S. recognition to the newborn State of Israel in 1948.

http://www.5tjt.com/news/read.asp?Id=1412

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. One must be careful to consider the time a man lived in when judging him

Were Washington and Jefferson racists? After all, they did own slaves.

[Beelzebud]

2. Wow... The same could be said of Adolph Hitler going by that logic.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. No. It could not.

Mommy. Teh stupid. It burns. Make it stop. Please. :cry:

[Beelzebud]

10. They are from the same time period, no?

My point is that an anti-semitic is an anti-semitic no matter what damn time they are living in.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. Jesus H. Q. Rhyste on a pink yellow-polkadotted nuclear powered molybdenum pogo stick.

[Beelzebud]

20. Go pray to your spaghetti and meatballs. You obviously aren't reading the body of my posts.

IF Truman were an anit-semite, it is irrelevant what time period he was living in.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. I am. It makes it worse.

[Beelzebud]

25. So let's be clear. IF (and thats a big IF) Truman were anti-semitic, he shouldn't be judged harshly

because of the time period in which he lived?

Is that what you're saying?

My point is that if someone is an anti-semite, it really doesn't matter what time period they live in. And since Truman and Hitler both lived in the same time period, I think it's a valid analogy. I would give neither a pass on it.

However, nothing in that article convinces me that Truman was an anti-semite. I was responding to the post that said he shouldn't be judged for the time period he lived in.

[oberliner]

35. nothing in that article convinces you that Truman was an anti-semite?

Not even this remark:

"The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish."

Or calling NY "kike town" ?

[Terran]

15. Perhaps you were not aware

of the Internet rule that says when you invoke Nazis as a comparison to anything, you immediately invalidate your argument. Sorry about that.

[Beelzebud]

16. Perhaps you didn't read my post. I never once compared anyone to a Nazi.

My point is that to say Harry Truman should get a pass for anti-semitism, because of the time period he lived in, makes about as much sense as giving Adolph Hitler a pass, because they both lived in the same time period.

Harry Truman was no Nazi, but IF (and thats a big IF) he was anti-semitic, the time period in which he lived in irrelevant.

[GeorgeGist]

31. sorry you believe in

a facetious rules.

[Terran]

45. And I am sorry

that you don't recognize facetiousness when you see it. :eyes:

[TheTimmer]

46. Actually

that's not true. The rule to which you are referring is Godwin's Law, which only states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

[TahitiNut]

58. Give up. No matter how often the misstatement of Godwin's Law is pointed out ...

... the thick-skulled persist in repeating the misstatement. Somehow, the distinction between a predictive (phenomenological) 'law' and a punitive (prescriptive) 'law' is totally lost on those poorly-schooled in science.

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. No, there was worldwide consensus that what he did was wrong

[melody]

34. Hitler murdered Jews, Truman (purportedly) was just rude to them

Neither is a good thing, but if you don't see the distinction, then Aristotle would be proud.

[Beelzebud]

36. So Truman shouldn't be judged harshly for that? Is that what you're saying?

[melody]

37. I'm saying if it didn't impact his decisions or actions, it's his business

I can think it's reprehensible all I want, but we haven't yet reached the point of policing
people's thoughts, no matter how objectionable.

Also, this is pure supposition. Assertion isn't proof.

[Beelzebud]

38. I'm not suggesting we police people's thoughts.

I'm just asserting that the time period in which a bigot lives, does not excuse the bigotry.

I guess I made the mistake of using Hitler as an example, but I think it's relevant since they both lived in the same time period. I'm not comparing Truman to Hitler, or suggesting that Truman was a Nazi sympathizer.

[melody]

39. Extraordinary people are those who rise above the climate of their times

Evolution is a slow process. :) The spearhead always reaches that point before the rest of humanity.

Harry Truman was a flawed human being, like the rest of us. I'd rather have an honest bigot in office than someone like David Duke who took his hood and robe to the tailor and had it stitched into a suit.

[Beelzebud]

40. I agree. My point wasn't so much centered on Truman, but the bigotry.

A man should be judged by the whole of his actions; And as you just said, he was a flawed human being, like the rest of us.

My posts weren't an attempt to paint Truman as totally evil. I just don't think his bigotry should be ignored any more than his accomplishments.

[Lilith Velkor]

54. Guess that'd make Truman anti-Japanese

:nuke: :nuke:

[melody]

60. A little more complicated than that

A horrible decision, but more complicated.

I also don't consider the Japanese soldier who killed my uncle Claude to be "anti-American".

[Lilith Velkor]

68. He may not have been, but his emperor sure was.

Sorry about your uncle.

Anyway, my point was that Truman was prejudiced against Jewish people, and that's fucked up, but not nearly as fucked up as incinerating hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians. And then nuking them. Twice.

[oberliner]

6. The article seems to conclude that he was not (or that it did not matter)

The last line noting that his actions were more important than his words.

[LeftishBrit]

33. Yes, that's more-or-less what I was trying to say below

For a politician, what is important is their public policies and actions. Their personal prejudices are important only inasfar as they affect their public policies and actions. Sometimes they do; sometimes they don't.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. While true, it doesn't take away what they were.

Would they have been the same in this day and age? Well, that is speculative.

"Were Washington and Jefferson racists?" Yes.

[GeorgeGist]

30. Yes they were.

[Captain Hilts]

3. He had a rough word for EVERY group of people. The Navy, Jews, Republicans....

He covered them all.

He was a man of his time.

[dorkulon]

4. Yes and no.

It's important to remember that virtually everyone in the world was racist and sexist until very recently in world history.

Lincoln was a racist. Churchill too. All the founding fathers. So was FDR. Really, almost everybody.

[Clark2008]

27. And sexist.

ALL of those people were sexist.

[rockymountaindem]

5. His personal views aside, he did help create Israel

OTOH, the US had a weapons embargo against Israel during the Israeli War of Independence. Ultimately, I don't think it matters so much whether he was personally anti-Semitic, as long as he didn't engage in policies that were anti-Semitic in nature. As much as we hope our leaders can rise above the prejudices of their times, sometimes they fall short. Here is someone who was born in the 1800s and lived during a time when anti-Semitism in the US was widespread and unfortunately enjoyed a modicum of respectability. But, he kept it to himself and pursued policies that ultimately helped the US and world Jewish community, so while it's disappointing, I won't get too upset.

Henry Ford, with his lovely little newspaper and secret police organization, OTOH, is in entirely different company.

[oberliner]

8. That seems to be the conclusion of the article as well

Actions speaking louder than words.

[KharmaTrain]

73. My Parents Idolized Truman

Primarily for his recognition of the State of Israel...despite the Soviet Union being the first country to recognize Israel's existance. Truman could have been an anti-semetic baby killer and it wouldn't have mattered as the establishment of Israel was one of the most important events in their lives and they credited Truman with being the man who assured Israel's independence.

I'm not surprised about their anti-semetism...not as though it wasn't uncommon at the time. My mother had to hide her Jewish identity to get a job during the depression...she couldn't even mention celebrating the Jewish holidays lest get a day off...for fear of being exposed as a "Jew" and fired. Jews couldn't join many groups...social and otherwise...and there was a quiet discrimination that existed until World War II.

I'm sure if you look at many major figures of that time, anti-semetism wasn't too far from their history as it was so accepted and widespread in this country 100 years ago.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. Was Truman Anti-Semitic And Does It Matter?

Yes and no, it doesn't matter now, the man's dead. What is done is done and can't really be un-done by him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Yes and no.

Yes. He wasn't racist.

No. He's long dead.

[NorthernSpy]

13. I've long suspected that some of Israel's most vehement non-Jewish supporters...

... are laboring with the secret hope that American Jews will leave for the Middle East en masse, so that America can become an officially Christian nation.


FWIW...

:tinfoilhat:

[Behind the Aegis]

14. You aren't the only one to think that way! n/t

[Ian David]

17. See also: Caught On Tape, Tom DeLay Says US Must Be Connected To Israel To Enjoy Second Coming....

Caught On Tape, Tom DeLay Says US Must Be Connected To Israel To Enjoy Second Coming....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1442293


America's Roadmap to The Apocalypse: Bush's Plan to Immanentize The Eschaton
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2747646

[Clark2008]

29. Is that why they're trying to kill off the Muslims now?

Because, even if the Jews leave, Islam will STILL be the fastest-growing religion in this country (and the world).

[rucky]

71. Close, but no tinfoil cigar.

Google "Battle of Armegeddon" and "Zion" in the same line.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Considering his support for Israel and his integration of the military,

I don't think it matters what he said in private about Jews or blacks sixty years ago.

What's more important, talk or action?

I'd like to see some Democratic action now, instead of just talk.

[question everything]

21. No. There was a Newsweek cover story about Truman

and a whole chapter about his support for the State of Israel despite his wife's anti Semitism

See also

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=316x1257

and this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18507657/site/newsweek

[KamaAina]

23. And does Beschloss discuss Nixon getting Fred Malek to count the Jews

in his administration? Or is this merely a gratuitous partisan swipe at alleged anti-Semitism on the part of a Democrat?

[AX10]

24. Truman's dead. Leave him alone.

I expected more of Bechloss. Why doesn't he point out the great progress that Truman made for this nation? :wtf:

Bechloss should remember that Truman assisted in the founding of the Israeli state.

[OzarkDem]

26. No he wasn't

Eddie Jacobson was both his good friend and a business partner. He consulted with Eddie often over the years when developing public policy related to Israel. US recognition of the State of Israel was an accomplishment of both Truman and hid friend Eddie Jacobson.

Pretty sad when people try to take something like that and twist it into something else. It reminds me of the book someone wrote recently attempting to sell the story that Abraham Lincoln was "gay".

Anything to make a buck.

[trumad]

53. Thank you OzarkDem...

Jacobson was a big part of Trumans life and was instrumental in Truman recognizing Israel.

No--- Truman was not anti-semitic.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. Yes he was!

How dare you compare anti-Semitism to being gay! No one twisted anything. Those quotes were HIS and HIS alone! So he had Jewish friends, big fucking deal. The cry of the racist: "I can't be racist/homophobic/anti-Semitic some of my BEST FRIENDS are black/gay/Jewish."

It disgusts me the number of people here, at a supposed liberal democratic site, that willfully excuse bigotry! :puke:

[LeftishBrit]

32. Answers:

(1) If these quotes are accurate, yes. (2) From a political point of view, only if it affected his policies. Which apparently it didn't.

[H2O Man]

41. He was racist.

I have no idea what you mean by "does it matter?"

[oberliner]

42. It's the headline of the article

I guess the author meant something like - did it influence his decision-making as president?

[H2O Man]

43. Okay.

Sure it did. Look at what FDR was thinking regarding Vietnam, and what happened when Harry took over.

[Nia Zuri]

44. Big deal, bet he was racist too, just like almost every other president

Sounds loike your expectations may be a bit too high. Get real!

[liberal1973]

50. No he was not

He was not a racist. Truman supported African Americans. Really disliked the way they were treated in the army during and after WW2. Also didn't care too much for Senator Byrd at that time.

[seemslikeadream]

47. Labeling folks anti-Semites is all the rage these days

It's very fashionable.

[oberliner]

48. Huh?

What are you talking about?

[seemslikeadream]

51. I wish I could post a link

but it is forbidden.

There is plenty of unjust labeling going on even though you may not be aware of it. Even some of long time decent DUer's here are being trashed elsewhere.

[Lurking Dem]

49. Sure it is.

Using terms like "kike" shouldn't matter or anything.

[seemslikeadream]

52. I'm sorry I was NOT referring to that

I was talking about the labeling of people here at DU.

[LeftishBrit]

55. I haven't noticed that. it's fashionable...

It's fashionable in right-wing circles to label people as 'soft on terror'. But antisemitism does not seem a very common accusation.

Of course, every now and then, a person or group might be considered as antisemitic because they ARE antisemitic. After all, antisemitism, like other forms of racism, has a long and ugly history.

There is no sense in constantly playing the 'race card' for the sake of it; but there's also no sense in pretending racism doesn't exist.

[seemslikeadream]

57. There is no sense in constantly playing the 'race card' for the sake of it

So true

but it happens

[LeftishBrit]

69. There is also no point in constantly DEALING the race card for the sake of it

but it happens (far more often!)

[Behind the Aegis]

76. Actually, "all the rage" is EXCUSING it or claiming it for themselves!

"I can't say anything about Israel or I'll be accused of anti-Semitism" is a MUCH more common feature here!

[Lilith Velkor]

79. Not reading the rules is all the rage, methinks

It's a common misperception, since there's a special area with extra rules for most threads about Israel, and it can be very intimidating and confusing for the casual internet user.

[brentspeak]

56. I don't believe his diary entries are fair game

He was writing down whatever his personal thoughts were at that moment in time. I guarantee you that every single solitary human being who has ever existed on this planet -- and every single solitary human being who ever will exist on this planet -- has had and will have ugly, racist, ignorant thoughts running through his or her head many times during their lifetime. That Truman wrote that particular thought down, for his own private reading, means only that he expressed it in print.

[WilliamPitt]

59. I believe it was Truman who once said

"The best recipe for a happy marriage is to let your wife think she's getting her way, and then to let her get her way."

It was a whole different time. Less than 20 years earlier, Lindberg was a hero who was big on Nazi ideas, Walt Disney was a madman anti-semite, and a certain P. Bush was getting ready to make a killing in Europe, so to speak.

There's a lot of merit to laying this vibe on the old-school Catholic crap about Jews killed Jesus...which I never understood, because the sacrifice he made of his life kind of...well, sealed the deal. Without Jews (he was one) "betraying" him, Jesus wouldn't be a footnote of a footnote on the tatters of a scroll about carpentry among Nazarenes.

Odd.

Were Protestant churches pushing that Jewish-betrayal line then, too? I have no idea myself. But it was generally a global phenomenon so pervasive and rooted that Germany was able to do what they did. With a P. Bush there to collect the Zyklon empties for deposit at the new-gas-in-old-can warehouse with the Faber sign above the door.

Crazy-ass planet.

[seemslikeadream]

62. Ya just don't hear enough 'bout those Irish drunks

[WilliamPitt]

65. You don't? Come visit. They're holding all the high offices...well, except in the church. Now.

But we're the east coast distributors of Irish drunks.

Along with one Italian drunk who hasn't spoken a coherent word in 15 years. I think they swapped out Menino's tongue and replaced it with a live carp.

Burgle flogle big dig biggle glople flugdug snuh.

Yes, Mr. Mayor, right away sir.

*sigh*

Literally. That's what he sounds like. On a good day. The mayor. Of Boston.

Mmmmm. Pride...feel it flowing.

[seemslikeadream]

67. Maybe I'll take you up on that right after my yoga class

[BlooInBloo]

61. (1) Yes. (2) Only if you have an iota of humanity.

[seemslikeadream]

63. Didn't he have something to do with creating Israel?

[BlooInBloo]

64. And? Lincoln's freeing the slave didn't stop him from being racist.

EDIT: Clarified subject.

[seemslikeadream]

66. Poor Harry can't catch a break

He's an anti-Semite to some


To others his key White House advisors ensured the domination of Zionist viewpoints

[Lurking Dem]

70. The domination of Zionist viewpoints?

Is THAT how you view the founding of Israel?

[BlooInBloo]

75. Fair & balanced - LOL!

[qdemn7]

72. Maybe and No it does not

It's a reflection of the times. Anti-Semitism was rampant in America back then. He was reflection of his times. And before anyone get's TOO self-righteous condemning Truman, here's a quote from FDR, which is also from Michael Beschloss. http://hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=5395

ANGLE: One of the other interesting things about this was the failure of Roosevelt to really confront the issue of what was happening to the Jews in Germany.

BESCHLOSS: That disappointed me most of all. Beginning in '42, Roosevelt began learning a lot about the murder of the Jews by Hitler and Jewish leaders went to him and pleaded and said, "Please give a speech in public, tell the world what's going on," because Hitler was trying to keep it a secret. For 18 months, Roosevelt refused. People would beg him to help get Jewish refugees out of Europe, relax the immigration quotas. Roosevelt wouldn't do it. And I found that early in the war, Roosevelt had had lunch with Henry Morganthal, his treasury secretary, who was Jewish; and a Catholic official, Leo Crawley. And he said, "You Jews and Catholics have to understand that you Jews and Catholics are in America only under sufferance because this is a Protestant country. And, therefore, you have to go along with everything I ask you to." And Morganthal went back to his office and said, "What am I working 24 hours a day for if America is not for me?

Now let's see who wants to compare FDR to Hitler?????

[rockymountaindem]

77. I know

I've read that before, and being Jewish and an admirer of Roosevelt it made me quite sad. But, alas, it just goes to show that even the good guys aren't all good all the time. OTOH, you have guys like Gerald Nye, who were total slime.

[High Plains]

78. Answers: a) who knows?, and b) who cares?