Been offline, wtf happened with being able to lock bank accounts?

[uppityperson]

Hi all, am traveling and read a brief article about mrbush's executive order saying he could block anyone's bank account that was "suspected" or supporting anyone (oh sorry, al qaeda) that he didn't like. I'm sure this was tossed around here, but am on a borrowed computer for only a bit so wondered the take on it. I'll be checking back later, but this just seemed another arrogant grab for powers/ possibility of abuse too high thing for him to have. Is it martial law yet? Thanks.

uppity on the road trying to stay cool

[Hubert Flottz]

1. The Unitary Chimp wants to rule the world!

And impeachment is off the table...

[pitohui]

2. they're not going to grab your bank account EOM

,

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. And you're sure of this because....???

(c) the term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.

Sec. 4. I hereby determine that the making of donations of the type specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of this order.

Sec. 5. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets

instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to section 1(a) of this order.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070717-3.html

[pitohui]

4. because i doubt this person is making huge donations to suspect "charities"

i wouldn't worry about my travels being interfered with by an order like this out of the blue unless i was really active in some suspect organization and those folks know who they are, they are not posting wtf??? is my trip money safe???? on the internet

even the neteller accts that were blocked, people had months of warning to get their $$$ out of neteller -- the poker bill itself was passed secretly overnight in a flash, but people had the time to get the money out of their accounts, a lot of time, it's just that a few people in denial of reality chose not to use the time because they kept insisting that the gov't just can't do this to them

if for some reason you feel you may have donated $$$ to a suspect organization, by all means, take the hint and move to cash, otherwise, i wouldn't worry, what is the point of worrying about skylab falling down out of the sky and hitting you on the head?

[havocmom]

6. Since 'the decider' decides what is and isn't suspect

anybody who says BOO to the junta could be at risk.

You don't have to actually DO anything bad to be punished. You just have to be on the wrong side of cheney/bush, who can SAY you did something bad and nobody gets to ask if you get disappeared.

Tying up assets is just one more thing they get to do on THEIR OWN SAY-SO.

[pitohui]

9. well they could capture the OP and ship him to gitmo, but honestly, they probably won't

what is the use of going thru life fearing the worst?

if you really fear this, you have fair warning to convert your bank accounts to cash or gemstones or whatever you perceive to be safer than a bank account, but i honestly don't recommend it

[havocmom]

11. I have no assets, so no personal fear. I DO fear for my countrymen.

Guess I am silly that way. I worry about my fellow citizens and how THEY might be hurt when the executive branch takes on dictatorial powers to destroy anyone THEY want to.

Glad you don't have such 'fear'.

Me, I fear the destruction of right, liberties and hope at the hands of a bunch of criminals. Thus, I fight and keep pointing that the emperor has no clothes.

[MiniMe]

7. Whether they will or not is not the point, the point is that they could, for any reason

They could decide to "lock" all the bank accounts of everybody that belongs to DU because after all, we are a threat to the success in Iraq.

[havocmom]

12. BINGO! We have our winnah!

They can destroy ANYONE who opposes them publicly. And due to Patriot Act, no one has any means of defense once THE DECIDER decides they are a threat. He doesn't have to prove anything, just say so and it is adios amigo.

[uppityperson]

15. Thanks Minime and havocmom. This was my take too.

Regardless of if they would, they now can because mrbush said to.

[uppityperson]

17. You seem to have missed a lot here, will try again

I wrote "this just seemed another arrogant grab for powers/ possibility of abuse too high thing for him to have." which you interpret as "wtf??? is my trip money safe???? " I fear for the bigger picture, not for my trip. I fear for many others, not just my personal trip. I am concerned about the potential for abuse, not my current trip. It is not about ME.

Can you see the difference?

The potential for abuse seems too high with this signing. Fearing the taking away of more rights, seeing the potential for them to lock bank accounts of whomever they want, this you equate with "worrying about skylab falling down out of the sky and hitting you on the head?"

Can you see the difference?

You do not know me. You do not know my friends. You do not know what I have been involved with or they have been involved with. You assume too much, most likely based on yourself, but that can be a real problem.

I wish I could be happy with letting rights be eroded, with letting the potential for abuse continue, since, after all, "I" have nothing to fear since I'm a law abiding flag waving amerikan, but then I probably wouldn't be on DU.

[havocmom]

5. Gotta find ways to keep anti-war demonstrators from traveling?

The rat bastards are taking too many pages from too many sci-fi novels.

[Cerridwen]

8. Hiya, uppityperson.

Hope you're having a grand time!

Let's see, the whole seizing assets thing is what you're asking about?

kpete has a thread here in which the general reaction to the EO is discussed.

I have a thread here in which I'm trying to get people to tell me I'm wrong.

Maybe those 2 threads'll get you caught up? :D

Stay cool. :smoke:

[uppityperson]

14. Thanks for the links, am off to read them now. Appreciate it. eom

[havocmom]

10. Every Democratic voter of means should take EVERY PENNY out of any institution

and put their $ in a coffee can in the yard.

Libertarians might be wise to do the same.

Let the banks know the monies of people who are opposed to the war will NOT be sitting there for them to use until cheney/bush decides to lock it away themselves.

Make the banks howl.

[Igel]

13. This is pretty much boiler plate.

Such rules have been in place for people helping AQ, Hamas, the Taliban, Sudan, Iran, and any number of countries or organizations. The law's an old one, and there's no more to fear from a new EO on these lines than there is from the older EOs.

I'm under no more risk of having my bank account blocked for helping the Iraqi insurgency than I am for sending money to Sudan or Iran.

[uppityperson]

16. If this was already in place, why did he sign this executive orders?

Problem is not that I am very concerned, though I do buy stuff from people all over the mid east and am not sure who I buy from personally. As well as the fact that they could lock friends accounts, people with links to others there. It is not just fearing for myself personally, but for others also.

IF this was already in place, seriously why did he sign this?

Off to read a couple more topics and get offline. It's frustrating having drawn out discussions, but hey, am appreciative of being able to get online at all right now.