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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:54 PM
Original message
Coalition of 'Pro-family' 'Christians' to stage protest against hate crimes bill
Christian, Pro-Family Groups Stand Up Against 'Criminalizing' Right to Speak Truth
By Ethan Cole
Christian Post Reporter
Sun, Jul. 08 2007 05:28 AM ET

WASHINGTON – As the U.S. Senate reviews a bill that many Christians say may threaten their right to express their biblical view on homosexuality, more Christians have been accused of being “homophobic” and threatened with penalties for expressing opposition to homosexuality, leading several concerned Christian groups to stage a protest this week against the bill.

A coalition of pro-family organizations against the Senate bill S. 1105 will take a public stand against the hate crimes legislation by holding a news conference followed by a demonstration on Capitol Hill this coming Wednesday.

Opponents of the bill argue that it is unnecessary because the people the legislation seeks to protect are already covered by other laws. Yet in addition to being redundant, the bill further threatens to censor the free speech of pastors and Christians who, for example, speak out about their biblical views on the sin of homosexuality.

(snip)

The House bill H.R. 1592 along with the Senate version S. 1105 are now both being reviewed by the Senate.

The White House has threatened to veto the bill if it makes it to the president’s desk, explaining that state and local criminal laws have already address hate crimes featured in the bills.


More :puke: @ http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070708/28329_Christian%2C_Pro-Family_Groups_Stand_Up_Against_%27Criminalizing%27_Right_to_Speak_Truth.htm



***** Call your Senators TOLL FREE to SUPPORT S. 1105:

    1-877 851-6437

    1-800 828-0498

    1-866 340-9281

    1-866 220-0044


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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. k&r...n/t
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. It censors preachers who want to continue to hate from the pulpit
and to urge their congregations to hate as well. You go christians.

As an aside the story says christians want to express their "biblical views" on homosexuality. That it is an abomination? From Leviticus? The same book that urges the stoning of people who work on the sabbath? Why don't christians stone to death people who work on the sabbath? Because they don't follow the old testament? Anyone understand my conundrum?
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bumblebee1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. The Christians would need a lot of stones in order to stone
people who work on the Sabbath. People such as: doctors, nurses, police officers, firefighters, paramedics, ministers and priests, the military. There are not enough stones to kill all the above mentioned people.
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, aren't these people 'good christians'?
They hate us for our freedom. The bigots claim discrimination if everyone don't tolerate their intolerance.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly....
"They hate us for our freedom."
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Christianist fascists
When they start protesting farmers growing two crops in one field or the All-You-Can-Eat Shrimp Special at Red Lobster, then I'll believe they take the Bible literally.

It's their justification for hatred.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Or wearing clothes of non-natural fibers
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LordJFT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. can someone please tell me what in this bill is being interpreted as limiting free speech?
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. There Is Nothing. Religious Leaders Manufactured the Charge Out of Whole Cloth.
There is nothing in the bill that limits free speech (see the bill posted below). In fact, the bill does NOTHING MORE than include sexual orientation, gender identity, and disabilities into the federal hate crime laws which ALREADY exist.

The ONLY reason to be against this legislation is that you do not feel that gays, the transgendered, and/or the disabled are entitled to the same protection as blacks, jews, and other ethnic and religious minorities. If your pastor - or anyone else - tries to tell you different, they are woefully ignorant, or blatantly bigoted. Or both.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Do Whut??
"Christians" don't want to abolish Hate Crimes? I know of an obscure Rabbi from Nazareth who would have had some problems understanding that position, since He was a victim himself. While I don't count myself among His followers, I think the guy had some pretty good ideas.

And "pro-family"? You mean gays don't have families? Where on earth do they come from, then? Do they get assembled in small factories on the Mexican border?

This is wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to start.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. "The White House has threatened to veto the bill"
disgusting.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Christians who hate.
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 03:15 PM by The Stranger
Color me surprised. :sarcasm:

GOTT MIT UNS

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. I don't think anybody could've anticipated that.
:rofl:
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm pretty sure Jesus was no homophobe (nt)
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 04:21 PM by ih8thegop
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I would be very surprised indeed if you were right.

He was a deeply religious Jewish mystic 2000 years ago. While there isn't enough evidence either way to be totally confident, it would be absolutely amazing if he didn't regard homosexuality as a sin; my suspicion is that he'd have been very forgiving indeed of "repentant" homosexuals but extremely condemnatory of anyone who claimed it wasn't a sin or promoted gay rights, at least if the portrayals of his views in the Gospels are accurate (which they may well not be, of course).

I doubt he'd see it as as important an issue as some modern Christians do.

But don't be under the illusion that it's the bad guys who are "perverting their faith" - I think it very unlikely indeed that Christ wouldn't be horrified by most modern liberal Christians, to an even greater extent than by their conservative counterparts - I suspect the people he'd most approve of would be anchorites, monastics and other mystic who withdraw from this world completely to concentrate on the next, although that's not an opinion I could produce a terribly strong argument to support, to be honest.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. The Jesus I believe in sure the heck wasn't.
I like to think of my Jesus as the guy who welcomed anyone and everyone into his home (or whatever he was in at the time), offered you some wine ('cuz my Jesus likes to show off a bit and wouldn't we all if we could do that trick!) and discussed philosophy or politics or whatever came to mind.

I know that some don't like my views but I've always though that Jesus was probably a cool guy and a great host who did his best to make everyone around him feel at ease.
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scorpiogirl Donating Member (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow! Christians feel like they'll lose their rights
to spew vile crap. Poor babies. :eyes:
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. The right to be wrong is a vital right to defend.
One of the scariest attitudes I've seen on DU is that there is something called "hate speech" which can be censored without it being a violation of freedom of speech.

If you try and make it illegal to say nasty things about homosexuality, you're not merely starting down a slippery slope, you're much of the way down it already.

It's not clear to me that this legislation *will* restrict anyone's freedom of speech, but if it will then it should be opposed.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. S 1105 IS - Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007
The bill is about hate crimes, not "hate speech" or "freedom of speech"; the 'pro-family' 'Christians' oppose the bill.

Here is an example of their message on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrHsoj60coA


And the text of S 1105

Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007
(Introduced in Senate)

S 1105 IS


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 1105
To provide Federal assistance to States, local jurisdictions, and Indian tribes to prosecute hate crimes, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

April 12, 2007
Mr. KENNEDY (for himself, Mr. SMITH, Mr. LEAHY, Mr. SPECTER, Ms. MIKULSKI, Ms. COLLINS, Mr. MENENDEZ, Ms. SNOWE, Mr. BROWN, Mr. KERRY, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. DODD, Mr. NELSON of Nebraska, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. LEVIN, Mr. HARKIN, Mr. WHITEHOUSE, Ms. STABENOW, Mr. BIDEN, Mrs. MURRAY, Mr. BAYH, Ms. CANTWELL, Mr. CARDIN, Mr. LIEBERMAN, Mr. REED, Mr. SCHUMER, Mr. OBAMA, Mrs. BOXER, Ms. KLOBUCHAR, Mr. AKAKA, Mr. BINGAMAN, Mrs. CLINTON, Ms. LANDRIEU, Mr. ROCKEFELLER, Mrs. LINCOLN, Mr. CASEY, Mrs. MCCASKILL, Mr. INOUYE, Mr. NELSON of Florida, Mr. SALAZAR, and Mr. JOHNSON) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To provide Federal assistance to States, local jurisdictions, and Indian tribes to prosecute hate crimes, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress makes the following findings:

(1) The incidence of violence motivated by the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim poses a serious national problem.

(2) Such violence disrupts the tranquility and safety of communities and is deeply divisive.

(3) State and local authorities are now and will continue to be responsible for prosecuting the overwhelming majority of violent crimes in the United States, including violent crimes motivated by bias. These authorities can carry out their responsibilities more effectively with greater Federal assistance.

(4) Existing Federal law is inadequate to address this problem.

(5) A prominent characteristic of a violent crime motivated by bias is that it devastates not just the actual victim and the family and friends of the victim, but frequently savages the community sharing the traits that caused the victim to be selected.

(6) Such violence substantially affects interstate commerce in many ways, including the following:

(A) The movement of members of targeted groups is impeded, and members of such groups are forced to move across State lines to escape the incidence or risk of such violence.

(B) Members of targeted groups are prevented from purchasing goods and services, obtaining or sustaining employment, or participating in other commercial activity.

(C) Perpetrators cross State lines to commit such violence.

(D) Channels, facilities, and instrumentalities of interstate commerce are used to facilitate the commission of such violence.

(E) Such violence is committed using articles that have traveled in interstate commerce.

(7) For generations, the institutions of slavery and involuntary servitude were defined by the race, color, and ancestry of those held in bondage. Slavery and involuntary servitude were enforced, both prior to and after the adoption of the 13th amendment to the Constitution of the United States, through widespread public and private violence directed at persons because of their race, color, or ancestry, or perceived race, color, or ancestry. Accordingly, eliminating racially motivated violence is an important means of eliminating, to the extent possible, the badges, incidents, and relics of slavery and involuntary servitude.

(8) Both at the time when the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the Constitution of the United States were adopted, and continuing to date, members of certain religious and national origin groups were and are perceived to be distinct `races'. Thus, in order to eliminate, to the extent possible, the badges, incidents, and relics of slavery, it is necessary to prohibit assaults on the basis of real or perceived religions or national origins, at least to the extent such religions or national origins were regarded as races at the time of the adoption of the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the Constitution of the United States.

(9) Federal jurisdiction over certain violent crimes motivated by bias enables Federal, State, and local authorities to work together as partners in the investigation and prosecution of such crimes.

(10) The problem of crimes motivated by bias is sufficiently serious, widespread, and interstate in nature as to warrant Federal assistance to States, local jurisdictions, and Indian tribes.

SEC. 3. DEFINITION OF HATE CRIME.

In this Act--

(1) the term `crime of violence' has the meaning given that term in section 16, title 18, United States Code;

(2) the term `hate crime' has the meaning given such term in section 280003(a) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (28 U.S.C. 994 note); and

(3) the term `local' means a county, city, town, township, parish, village, or other general purpose political subdivision of a State.

SEC. 4. SUPPORT FOR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS BY STATE, LOCAL, AND TRIBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS.

(a) Assistance Other Than Financial Assistance-

(1) IN GENERAL- At the request of State, local, or Tribal law enforcement agency, the Attorney General may provide technical, forensic, prosecutorial, or any other form of assistance in the criminal investigation or prosecution of any crime that--

(A) constitutes a crime of violence;

(B) constitutes a felony under the State, local, or Tribal laws; and

(C) is motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim, or is a violation of the State, local, or Tribal hate crime laws.

(2) PRIORITY- In providing assistance under paragraph (1), the Attorney General shall give priority to crimes committed by offenders who have committed crimes in more than one State and to rural jurisdictions that have difficulty covering the extraordinary expenses relating to the investigation or prosecution of the crime.

(b) Grants-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General may award grants to State, local, and Indian law enforcement agencies for extraordinary expenses associated with the investigation and prosecution of hate crimes.

(2) OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS- In implementing the grant program under this subsection, the Office of Justice Programs shall work closely with grantees to ensure that the concerns and needs of all affected parties, including community groups and schools, colleges, and universities, are addressed through the local infrastructure developed under the grants.

(3) APPLICATION-

(A) IN GENERAL- Each State, local, and Indian law enforcement agency that desires a grant under this subsection shall submit an application to the Attorney General at such time, in such manner, and accompanied by or containing such information as the Attorney General shall reasonably require.

(B) DATE FOR SUBMISSION- Applications submitted pursuant to subparagraph (A) shall be submitted during the 60-day period beginning on a date that the Attorney General shall prescribe.

(C) REQUIREMENTS- A State, local, and Indian law enforcement agency applying for a grant under this subsection shall--

(i) describe the extraordinary purposes for which the grant is needed;

(ii) certify that the State, local government, or Indian tribe lacks the resources necessary to investigate or prosecute the hate crime;

(iii) demonstrate that, in developing a plan to implement the grant, the State, local, and Indian law enforcement agency has consulted and coordinated with nonprofit, nongovernmental victim services programs that have experience in providing services to victims of hate crimes; and

(iv) certify that any Federal funds received under this subsection will be used to supplement, not supplant, non-Federal funds that would otherwise be available for activities funded under this subsection.

(4) DEADLINE- An application for a grant under this subsection shall be approved or denied by the Attorney General not later than 30 business days after the date on which the Attorney General receives the application.

(5) GRANT AMOUNT- A grant under this subsection shall not exceed $100,000 for any single jurisdiction in any 1-year period.

(6) REPORT- Not later than December 31, 2008, the Attorney General shall submit to Congress a report describing the applications submitted for grants under this subsection, the award of such grants, and the purposes for which the grant amounts were expended.

(7) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There is authorized to be appropriated to carry out this subsection $5,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2008 and 2009.

SEC. 5. GRANT PROGRAM.

(a) Authority to Award Grants- The Office of Justice Programs of the Department of Justice may award grants, in accordance with such regulations as the Attorney General may prescribe, to State, local, or Tribal programs designed to combat hate crimes committed by juveniles, including programs to train local law enforcement officers in identifying, investigating, prosecuting, and preventing hate crimes.

(b) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be appropriated such sums as may be necessary to carry out this section.

SEC. 6. AUTHORIZATION FOR ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL TO ASSIST STATE, LOCAL, AND TRIBAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

There are authorized to be appropriated to the Department of the Treasury and the Department of Justice, including the Community Relations Service, for fiscal years 2008, 2009, and 2010 such sums as are necessary to increase the number of personnel to prevent and respond to alleged violations of section 249 of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 7 of this Act.

SEC. 7. PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN HATE CRIME ACTS.

(a) In General- Chapter 13 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`Sec. 249. Hate crime acts

`(a) In General-

`(1) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, OR NATIONAL ORIGIN- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person--

`(A) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, fined in accordance with this title, or both; and

`(B) shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined in accordance with this title, or both, if--

`(i) death results from the offense; or

`(ii) the offense includes kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill.

`(2) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY, OR DISABILITY-

`(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person--

`(i) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, fined in accordance with this title, or both; and

`(ii) shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined in accordance with this title, or both, if--

`(I) death results from the offense; or

`(II) the offense includes kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill.

`(B) CIRCUMSTANCES DESCRIBED- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the circumstances described in this subparagraph are that--

`(i) the conduct described in subparagraph (A) occurs during the course of, or as the result of, the travel of the defendant or the victim--

`(I) across a State line or national border; or

`(II) using a channel, facility, or instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce;

`(ii) the defendant uses a channel, facility, or instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce in connection with the conduct described in subparagraph (A);

`(iii) in connection with the conduct described in subparagraph (A), the defendant employs a firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or other weapon that has traveled in interstate or foreign commerce; or

`(iv) the conduct described in subparagraph (A)--

`(I) interferes with commercial or other economic activity in which the victim is engaged at the time of the conduct; or

`(II) otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce.

`(b) Certification Requirement- No prosecution of any offense described in this subsection may be undertaken by the United States, except under the certification in writing of the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney General, or any Assistant Attorney General specially designated by the Attorney General that--

`(1) such certifying individual has reasonable cause to believe that the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person was a motivating factor underlying the alleged conduct of the defendant; and

`(2) such certifying individual has consulted with State or local law enforcement officials regarding the prosecution and determined that--

`(A) the State does not have jurisdiction or does not intend to exercise jurisdiction;

`(B) the State has requested that the Federal Government assume jurisdiction;

`(C) the State does not object to the Federal Government assuming jurisdiction; or

`(D) the verdict or sentence obtained pursuant to State charges left demonstratively unvindicated the Federal interest in eradicating bias-motivated violence.

`(c) Definitions- In this section--

`(1) the term `explosive or incendiary device' has the meaning given such term in section 232 of this title;

`(2) the term `firearm' has the meaning given such term in section 921(a) of this title; and

`(3) the term `gender identity' for the purposes of this chapter means actual or perceived gender-related characteristics.

`(d) Rule of Evidence- In a prosecution for an offense under this section, evidence of expression or associations of the defendant may not be introduced as substantive evidence at trial, unless the evidence specifically relates to that offense. However, nothing in this section affects the rules of evidence governing impeachment of a witness.'.

(b) Technical and Conforming Amendment- The analysis for chapter 13 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`249. Hate crime acts.'.

SEC. 8. STATISTICS.

(a) In General- Subsection (b)(1) of the first section of the Hate Crime Statistics Act (28 U.S.C. 534 note) is amended by inserting `gender and gender identity,' after `race,'.

(b) Data- Subsection (b)(5) of the first section of the Hate Crime Statistics Act (28 U.S.C. 534 note) is amended by inserting `, including data about crimes committed by, and crimes directed against, juveniles' after `data acquired under this section'.

SEC. 9. SEVERABILITY.

If any provision of this Act, an amendment made by this Act, or the application of such provision or amendment to any person or circumstance is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the application of the provisions of such to any person or circumstance shall not be affected thereby.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.1105:



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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Thanks - it's always useful to see what the actual law under discussion is.

My legalese isn't terribly fluent, but as far as I can tell this doesn't actually create any new crimes, it just increases punishments and provides extra resources for detection and prosecution if the offence is categorised as a hate crime. Can anyone confirm or deny that for me?

If so, I have mixed feelings about that. I think allocating extra resources for fighting hate crimes is almost certainly a good idea, but if one person hit me in the face because I'm Jewish and another did so because I spilled their drink, I'm not sure I'd want the latter to be less heavily punished than the former.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. Now these absurd people are going to cause Christians to be labeled as as pro-hate crimes? Great!
Edited on Mon Jul-09-07 04:47 PM by MasonJar
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. The fact that they are against it is enough reason for me to be for it
Anything that upsets fundy nutcases is good in my book.

They are only upset because they are the ones guilty of actual hate crimes. Maybe now they will be prosecuted.
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Elspeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. These "Christians" do not speak for me or for other Christians
"...but without love, I am nothing but a sounding gong or a crashing cymbal..."
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That's a real shame, isn't it? Not only do they spread their
hate, but they smear a large number of other people while doing it.
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Elspeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. That's exactly right. And I am getting tired of it.
Thanks.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-09-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Because the really "pro-family" thing to do is hate people for
who they are...
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. I guess they do not even read the Bible........
they are just a bunch of idiots full of pure hate!
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
28. As I understand it, Jesus was a huge proponent of hate crimes.
He used to put on his best dress and demand, "Hey boys, lets go commit some hate crimes."

A lot of people don't know that.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Wow, learn something new every day.
:sarcasm: of course.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-10-07 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
30. Back to the top for you,thread!
:kick:
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