Yes Cindy is going to run against Pelosi unless she puts impeachment back on the table

[proud2BlibKansan]

I am in Crawford with Cindy right now. She told us the other night of her plans.

This is a strategy that will be repeated all across the country unless our Democratic majority pays attention to the will of the people. End the war and impeach bush and cheney. That is why tens of thousands of peace activists got involved in campaigns last year. And a big part of the reason the Dems took over Congress is because of the grassroots effort by peace activists and progressives all over America. Now 6 months later, we are still in Iraq and impeachment is off the table.

So the Dems who are refusing to abide by the will of the people will be challenged. This isn't about the Democratic party. It's about ending an illegal war and impeaching the bastards who started it.

Cindy is just the first of many who will rise up and challenge Democrats who refuse to end the war and sign off on impeachment.

The peace community is a force to be reckoned with. The majority of us are Democrats but ending the war in Iraq is our primary objective.
We also feel it is important to impeach so we can avoid an attack on Iran.

So yes, Cindy is serious and yes, there will be others.

If you don't like it contact your Democratic Congress critters and tell them to bring ALL our troops home and hold this administration accountable. Then they will easily be re-elected in November 2008.

[EFerrari]

1. Whatever it takes.

:kick:

[roguevalley]

55. no one should sit safely in their seats, defying the will of the people

on issues this important. the majority are for impeachment and the Constitution demands it. I hope Nancy Pelosi loses. Could be an interesting race in a town as anti-war and flexible as San Fran. GO,
CINDY!

[EFerrari]

62. I don't want to violate DU rules. I hope my representative

has a moment of clarity. :shrug:

[orleans]

144. like i said on another sheehan thread about this--

maybe it will light a fire under nancy's ass.

i hope so. because after seeing that post on no quarter it appears that those paper plates nancy's been getting just isn't doing it for her.

(you know which one i mean, right? #5)
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/

[EFerrari]

152. Yes, I do know.

Nancy is in a really difficult position, as far as I can tell. But/and, she needs to attend to her district. :(

[ISUGRADIA]

64. 15-20% tops for the lady from Vacaville

[GOTV]

184. The majority have not expressed support for impeachment...

... except for a minority of polls that showed a tiny majority for it.

That is the whole problem and the root cause of its absence from "the table".

[jgraz]

207. Once again, you can't poll the polls

You have to look at the questions and the sampling. The most recent poll, with simplest question and the widest sample was the one that showed a majority in favor of impeaching Cheney and a statistical tie on the question of impeaching Bush.

And this is without ANY prominent national leaders calling for Bush's ouster. This is with no support from the MSM. Where do you think we'd be if Pelosi had actually ginned up the courage to put it ON the table after 2006?

[KAT119]

198. PELOSI'S CONTACT EMAIL IS: http://speaker.gov/contact

We can continue to tell her what we (THE PEOPLE) require, seek, demand from our "leaders"!!! Let's Go!!

[Dinger]

2. K & R For Cindy And Casey, & Who Knows How Many Others (nt)

[MuseRider]

3. I would vote for her if I could

if for no other reason than the fact that the woman has more guts than the whole lot of them in congress put together.

It is not about politics it is about what is right and what is wrong. Life and death. Restoring our constitution. Putting country first. I don't see much of that anymore.

Go Cindy!

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Amen!

This has been an exciting weekend!

[MuseRider]

9. Wish I was there!

Be safe on your trip home. :hi:

[BlackHawk706867]

5. I want much more than Impeachment... I want to see these sick SOB's in handcuffs...

This is a must... Just have a look at the GWB's history as Governor of Texas he offed 56 people that were on Death Row... Some died there that should not have, and many more have died since he bull fudged his way into the WH...... This POS needs to pay the price for his crimes, and any that are involved with him need to be investigated and indicted if need be...

ww

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Bravo for Cindy! She'd get my vote in a heartbeat. No nose holding requiered.

Alas, she's not running in my district.

[earthlover]

7. Seems to me if you are serious about IraN, you would focus on IraN....

I don't hear any of the announced candidates even mentioning the need to avoid a new conflict in Iran. The best time to stop a foolish war is before it starts. The only one I hear talking about Iran is Wes Clark.

[BlackHawk706867]

18. That may be so, But so far Wes Clark has not announced his Candidacy that I am aware of! eom. ww

[earthlover]

102. That's what I said...none of the announced candidates have really paid much attention to Iran.

Wes Clark has put a great deal of time into trying to prevent a war in Iran.

If the Dems are interested in preventing another Iraq in Iran....maybe they should draft Clark to run again?

Don't hold your breath waiting for the other candidates to put as much emphasis on Iran.

That would, of course, be leadership. Some of them didn't even oppose Iraq until most of the rest of the country had led them to the conclusion....

[sendero]

8. I fully support Cindy..

... the only way anything is going to change in Washington is to make our representatives (both Republican and Democratic) understand that they can LOSE their cushy-assed perk-encrusted jobs if they don't act upon the wishes of those who put them there.

[sandnsea]

10. She should move to SD

and take on Stephanie Herseth, a Democrat in the House who is really gumming up the works and who doesn't tell her own constituents the truth either. People like her are the problem, not Nancy Pelosi.

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/04/28/news/top/news05.txt

[EFerrari]

14. Many of Pelosi's constituents feel the very same way. I do.

Last townhall she had here, she waved away our desire to end the war. I don't know how long she can keep doing that without consequences.

[sandnsea]

30. Well, many of you would be wrong

and there isn't anything new about that either. I can't think of much of anything stupider than going after Nancy Pelosi.

[EFerrari]

37. Excuse me? Do you live in Pelosi's district? I do.

And yeah, many of us are so wrong, we elected Pelosi in the first place. We bundled donations for her, phonebanked, yadayadayada.

I guess I was stupid then, too. Stupid to think she would represent this district. :)

[sandnsea]

42. She is Speaker now

If you want her to go back to just representing you, then tell her to resign. If you want her to be able to lead on impeachment and the war, then get her the votes. That's the way to do it. Not launching this stupid stomping your feet and holding your breath campaign.

[EFerrari]

44. Bull. Her first job is to represent this district. If she can't do that

she needs another job.

And, it's HER job to corral votes, NOT MINE. I don't work for Nancy Pelosi. She works for me.

[sandnsea]

51. Then tell her to resign

and represent just you and nobody but you.

NO, it is not just her job to change the country's opinion of what has happened the last 6 years. It's everybody's job. Maybe if a few more people would do the really tough job of changing minds in some of the reddest districts in the country, they wouldn't be so pompous about how easy it is to do Nancy Pelosi's job.

Silly Sundays. I've got to stay off this board on Silly Sundays.

[EFerrari]

57. You aren't addressing my point. This district elected Nancy

to do a job. Her productivity is not being well regarded here.

I don't see how your baseless personal attacks forward this discussion.

And, yes, it is her job to round up votes. Are you telling me she's a failure as Speaker, too?

[sandnsea]

67. YOU are saying she's a failure

If she can't represent you and be Speaker too, then tell her to resign and cowtow to you and only you. That is exactly the point. You think you can stomp your foot and Nancy Pelosi will make the entire country do what San Francisco says. Well she can't. If you prefer her one vote over her being Speaker, then insist she resign the position and vote for you again.

And, NO, she cannot make people vote against their constituents on issues as important as war. When she did round up votes, offering financial incentives, she got kicked in the teeth for that too.

Some people are about destroying both parties, corporations, capitalism, and everything that has ever touched it. That's what these attack sessions are about, and nothing more.

[EFerrari]

70. Strawman. n/t

[sandnsea]

72. Logic you can't fight n/t

[EFerrari]

73. That's not logic, lol.

[sandnsea]

75. How's Cindy going to get the votes?

If she can't get them now, how's she going to get them simply by being in Congress??

[EFerrari]

78. All I'm saying, sandnsea, is that Nancy is in trouble with her district.

That's all. And, I'm not particularly happy about that, okay? I've worked on every one of her campaigns with pleasure. But, that's just the way it is here.

And Nancy or her people or SOMEONE has to get that or she will have an upright fight next time out,, whether it be from a Dem challenger or an Indy. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

80. Then her district is stupid

And that's all I'm saying.

[LibraLiz1973]

84. Your being totally obnoxious

[sandnsea]

91. We need to get more votes

That's what we need to do. We need a strategy to educate red/rural voters, that will really make a difference. We do not need to be wasting time and money fighting one of the best liberals we have. It's goddamned stupid and it's been stupid for years now.

[EFerrari]

96. That's right! We should invest time an energy in the mouth breathers

instead of building a progressive coalition. Because that's worked SO well so far.

And, at every point, we should attack progressives that demand representation.

:rofl:

[sandnsea]

99. My god. Who do you think is doing the voting?

You say Nancy has to corral those votes, where in the hell do you think she has to corral them from?? RED STATES.

Come on, I know you know better than what you're putting on right now.

And YOU are the one supporting attacking the best progressive we have.

[EFerrari]

100. I am the one demanding that my representative REPRESENT

my district.

If you construe that as an attack, so be it. Sounds like a job description to me.

[sandnsea]

103. Then you support her resigning Speaker?

Correct? Because that's the only way she can be loyal to San Franciscans and nobody but San Franciscans 100% of the time. I keep waiting for you to acknowledge that reality, and if you have, I've missed it.

[EFerrari]

104. The reality is that her job is to represent her district. That's the only

reason she's in the House at all. You seem to have it exactly backward.

And, I'm so sorry, but this exchange is going nowhere.

[sandnsea]

108. You want her to resign for you you you

I get it completely, start to finish, no backward about it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. She is one of many. many. many

And if a majority votes against Pelosi, she will not be their congress rep anymore. :)

[Clark2008]

110. You know - you can make an argument without putting down

an entire group of people based on where they live.

Not everyone in rural areas is a "mouth breather." Geesch.

Sandandsea's point about educating rural voters is valid. Most of these voters never hear anything but rightwing radio and watch Faux News because that's all that's on in their local barber shops and carcare clinics. It's not that they're stupid - just misinformed because of media consolidation and lack of choices in what they DO have.

I live in a city in the South, but I don't live all that far away from some of the most rural areas in the country - and I speak from experience. These people really don't have all the tools they need to make educated decisions about who to vote for and, for the most part, it's not their fault. Not everyone has the time or the access to get their news online.

[EFerrari]

112. I was referring to the 30%ers, not to people who live in any particular

place. I'm sorry that wasn't clear. I didn't mean that.

[Le Taz Hot]

253. Oh, yeah,

we need Bay Areans to come to Fresno, Modesto, Ceres, etc., to "educate" us how to vote. Well, you go on ahead and let me know how that works out for ya.

LTH,
Fresno, CA
Picking the hayseed out of her mouth.

:rofl:

[Forkboy]

178. Chaching!

[EFerrari]

87. Thank you.n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

52. Sometimes folks get that kind of twisted around backwards, sfex. Thanks for

putting it so concisely! It needs to be said sometimes.

[EFerrari]

66. I understand people feeling protective of the Speaker and so on.

I do sometimes!

But, it's just unreal that the rep from this district is so out of touch and so willing to ignore her constituency -- most of whom would love to cheer her on.

[John Q. Citizen]

117. I know. I feel protective of her too sometimes. For the most part, I like

her a lot.

But look at congress' approval rating. It's lower now than before the Dems took over. It's lower than bush's ratings. And that's because all across our land people worked there asses off, voted for change and the change doesn't look like much change at all. We have more war and occupation now that the Dems run congress than before.

Dems across the country overwelmingly support impeachment. A clear majority of independants support impeachment. We aren't stupid. We know the bush administration is a criminal conspiracy.

The longer Pelosi tries to ignore the obvious, the worse it's going to get.

Did you see this? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1275584&mesg_id=1275584

Look at item #5. That's very intersting if it's true. And disturbing, far more disturbing than Sheehan telling Nancy to fish or cut bait.

Hoyer would like nothing better than to be Speaker. And at this rate, he will be.

[roguevalley]

59. anyone can run against anyone for any reason. good grief. If the

people who actually live there aren't satisfied and want to vote for Cindy and even change her out, what a great lesson to the rest THAT would be, then its called democracy.

[sandnsea]

68. And anyone can say it's stupid n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

179. Is this 3rd grade recess or a discussion board?

[Ghost in the Machine]

93. Was Pelosi's name on a ballot anywhere else other than her home district?

??

???

Her constituents elected her, and they elected her to represent them and their values. The will of her constituents is not being done. Her posistion in the Party is what put her in the National spotlight, but it's her constituents that keep her there. Just as you have expectations of your own local representative, the people of Pelosi's district have theirs. Without them, she is nothing...

[sandnsea]

95. I said, they should ask her to resign

if they prefer her vote for them over having her as Speaker, then they should ask her to resign. They won't, so it's a stupid argument for anybody to make. Just like they aren't going to elect Cindy, which makes her running there a stupid waste of time. Somebody needs to start getting information into the red areas and changing minds there, so representatives can change votes. That's how it works.

[Moochy]

111. A stupid waste of time

Thats how it works.

Sorry I'm just distilling your post for its essence.

[earthlover]

105. Democrats eat their own...Republicans stand by their own....

What strategy is more effective at winning instead of complaining?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

189. you mean how Frist stood by spector when they were

choosing people for the judiciary committee?

right.

I would much prefer to be in our shoes today than in the GOP's. remind me again, what are the poll numbers for Bush and Cheney? and whose candidates beat the top three GOPers hands down, regardless of who we choose for president?

when we eat our own it is because

a) we are hungry
b) they deserve it
c) we have nothing better to do with our time, and
d) we are keeping our powder dry and teeth sharp for future attacks against the GOP.

[MsMagnificent]

200. With all due respect

those kinds of sentiments are baloney, same as the others like it.

So your contention is if we hold Ms. Pelosi responsible for her own actions then we are cannibalizing our own Party?!
Preposterous!

By saying this, you are plainly saying we are no different than Repukes:
--regarding (the lack of) accountability and giving Party members free passes simply because they're Party members you are advocating we should act like the Repukes of at least the last 6, arguably more like 12 (and more!) years.
--that if a politician is a Democrat then they can do no wrong, or at least if they do they shouldn't be criticized or held accountable
--to wit, that if a politician is a Democrat they are above criticism
--that what is important is Party Loyalty over doing the right thing and what is good, right and beneficial for all Americans!

Democrats absolutely should hold their politicians accountable as opposed to the Repukes who have let theirs run wild and unsupervised, and who have turned a blind eye to their many misbehaviors and outright crimes; otherwise we would then be as hypocritical as the Greedy Old Panderers.



If those are bad things for Republicans to do --which they most certainly are-- how is that not bad behavior for Democrats?


BBI hold Democratic politicians to an even higher standard than Repukes simply because the Pukes can't help it; they are, with very few exceptions, Bmorally and ethically bankrupt -- whereas if a person is going to hold MY parties name, they are darn well going to show themselves, if not superior, then at least as ethically and morally fair as any average elected official (of yore?) who happens to own and utilize a conscience and a sense of responsibility!

If I wanted to adhere blindly to any one political party and have such one dimensional Chimpy-like "loyalty" because of what they profess to be rather than what they actually profess and what they actually do then there is a ready-made party already in existence who has brought that kind of hypocrisy and rationalization to an art-form. (Hint: it is NOT the Democratic Party!)
I have been a Democrat my entire life because it is the Democratic Party who does the Right Thing, (at the cost of sounding redundant) read: Morally, Ethically, with Responsibility and for the good of all people!

Or at least they used to. Sometimes it feels like a long, long time ago...

Our Democratic politicians are still showing a dismal lack of spine... to excuse them for any reason perpetuates and reinforces their flexible ethics, their swapping Principle for the importance of polls and triangulation, their overweening concern for their next election rather than for doing the People's business which they were hired for now, and (yes, for some) downright cowardice.

If they can't or won't do the will of the People the formula for a politician of any stripe is the same: Inform them, Make clear your expectations referenced with sound reasoning, then watch for change. If no change is forthcoming then we must find someone else with the fortitude to do their job.
That is not cannibalization, that is a job review which we in the real, everyday world must rightfully and continually contend with.


Seems to me this entire line of reasoning is backwards: it is politicians like Nancy Pelosi who are cannibalizing their constituents and it is perfectly appropriate to say so!


Bottom line: Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty... and that vigilance absolutely should not be qualified because of party affiliation.

[Vidar]

158. Glad to hear you, as a constituent & someone whose opinion I

respect, say this, sfexpat2000. Pelosi may have some political ability, but she consistently refuses to the right things for this country.

[EFerrari]

173. I'd like to see her mend fences. But if that's not happening

this district will move on.

[ISUGRADIA]

60. Yeah, I'm sure she'd do great there *roll eyes*

[sandnsea]

71. Nancy is supposed to get those votes

If Cindy can't win even one red state, what makes her think she's going to get in the House and win all those red votes needed for impeachment and pulling the war funding?

[earthlover]

210. So Cindy is going to run in 08

Is it lost on some of us that by January 09, impeaching Bush won't exactly be a high priority for the new Congress?

[ixion]

11. excellent news

thanks for keeping us in the loop! :hi:

I'd like to see her challenge Pelosi, and the same goes for any other career pol that has decided to choose politics over We, the people.

Go Cindy!! :yourock:

[seriousstan]

12. Let's see.....flipflop on retirement, missing money allegations and hollow threats

OK, Cindy could be a politician. I can't wait to witness her brilliant mind in a debate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

155. She did retire from the peace movement

The missing money allegations are bullshit and I have no idea what you mean by hollow threats. :shrug:

[seriousstan]

164. Retired???? For what? an hour???? Get real, Cindy needs media rehab.

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. She didn't retire from life in general

Sorry if you didn't read or couldn't understand her intentions when she wrote that letter. :shrug:

[aquart]

13. Blackmail is ugly no matter who does it.

I'm not impressed by this. Just not.

Cindy, assuming she won, would take office just as Bush was leaving. AND THE POINT OF THIS EXERCISE WOULD BE????

What utter bloody internecine nonsense.

[EFerrari]

17. How is this blackmail? It's completely transparent. n/t

[leftchick]

22. Go Cindy!

:)

[jgraz]

24. It's blackmail to run against an ineffective politician?

What color is the sky in your world?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. Eight years ago a Democrat said to me, "We will not sink to their level"

I think by now we know that being "nice" only sinks our country further. I don't want Democrats in the Congress to be "nice" anymore.

[OzarkDem]

29. Just letting Bush leave office is a crime

We need to hold the Bush administration accountable for breaking the law. Letting them walk away unpunished is a crime in and of itself.

[MuseRider]

36. Bush leaving is not the point of challenging Pelosi

the point would be that she is ineffective and not representing her constituency. If she can't do this now with as much public support as she has and with as much pressure as she is getting from her party then she should not be in office even after Bush is gone.

[LittleClarkie]

85. And would not get the speaker position, most likely

What if someone she would consider worse, like Ralm Emanuel, got the Speaker position.

I wonder if she is considering any of that, or just going for a punishment move.

Meanwhile, that this would be at all effective is somewhat laughable. I think Cindy overestimates her chances, or the sort of threat she'd be.

[tridim]

15. Cindy is EXACTLY the type of person who should be in Congress

I think she should run for office even if Pelosi comes around.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. Maybe So. But Maybe She Could Be Smart Enough To, Ya Know, Take On A Republican?

Gee, that would be a nice start.

Oh, lemme guess; Nancy is more evil then the republicans now. :eyes:

[Radical Activist]

16. Someone needs to run against Rahm Emanuel

His district is liberal enough and the Green Party has a ballot line in Illinois now.

[jgraz]

23. Yes, please!

Someone please get that shill out of Congress.

[Radical Activist]

69. It would be like the Lamont/Lieberman race

except that Rahm's district is more liberal and Democratic than Connecticut. He could be beat by a liberal independent or green in the general election.

[jgraz]

74. I don't think so

He may have a huge ego, but Rahm would never go outside the Democratic party, IMHO. He will, however, pull out all the stops to win a contested primary.

[Radical Activist]

82. Rahm would win the primary

The race would have to be in the general election by a green or independent running against Rahm. The Chicago machine can deliver the Democratic primary to Rahm. A liberal has a better chance in the general election when more people are voting.

[sandnsea]

32. Now that's an idea

Going after Nancy Pelosi is just flat stupid.

[John Q. Citizen]

50. You should write her and tell her to keep impeachment off the table and

offer your services to help her win re-election, should she follow your advice.

I'm doing the exact opposite. I'm writing her to ask her to put it back on the table, and informing her that if she doesn't i will be volunteering my services to elect Cindy Sheehan as the next representitve from San Francicsco.

I'm hoping Madam Speaker will do the right thing here, and I think she will. But I have to do what I think is the right thing also. It's my country too, after all. And if that's what I can do to get another vote for impeachment in the house, then I will.

It is my judgement that taking impeachment off the table is stupid and dangerous. Why would Speaker Pelosi take away the one most effective tool to remove/hinder/investigate an illegal out of control administration? That's crazy.

[sandnsea]

54. Because BUSH & CHENEY have been the focus

the last 2 years, NOT partisan impeachment mudslinging. Nobody would know any of the stuff that this administration has done if she had let a war over impeachment be fought for the last 2 years.

She doesn't need to hire me for advice, she's doing just fine all by herself. She's one of the very few in DC who always does.

[John Q. Citizen]

88. John Conyers just released a statement where he said "impeachment" and

used it as a stick directed toward the administration vis a vis supeaned people and material. He mentioned the need for co-operation in light of the fact that a majority of Americans favor impeachment. The number of Democrats and independants who favor impeachment is much much higher than that.

Johnson in the NYT just published a piece where he said Pelosi and Steny Hoyer aren't even speaking to each other right now, because Madam Speaker refuses to put impeachment back on the table. (Is it true? I don't know. But that's what he wrote)

Pelosi's district voted in November of 2006, 60% to 40%, to advise Pelosi to impeach.

There is a shift going on here, and if Nancy Pelosi doesn't get the message soon, events are going to pass her by. My bet is that the Speaker will get the message and will respond positively to the message. But sometimes it takes getting peoples attention to get them to hear.

[sandnsea]

101. Bush could be in the middle of resigning

and Nancy Pelosi would STILL be saying impeachment is off the table. You seriously believe Conyers is running off doing whatever he wants, that there's NO coordination with the rest of the party? Some members will rattle about impeachment, until there's enough momentum to push for resignation. But Nancy will never allow impeachment to distract the country from the war, spying, gitmo, and the rest of Bush's atrocious policies.

[John Q. Citizen]

107. I don't see your point. You are saying that bush's crimes are the reason Pelosi

won't formally investigate bush's crime and if warrented by the outcome, take action against bush for his crimes?

That doesn't make any sense.

Is she going to get Dick to resign first? I hope so.

When do you expect that to happen, given that impeachment is off the table?

Did she tell you this, or is this your assumption/hope?

[bvar22]

130. Excellent summation.

:patriot:

[sandnsea]

138. Let's follow, step by step

Impeachment is off the table. The media and the Republicans can't make it an issue because she refuses to.

Everything else is ON THE TABLE. Hearings, inquiries, subpoenas, lies, misappropriations, Iraq, misuse of the NG, spying, habeas corpus, all of it, everything. In the public every single solitary day. Beating the living hell out of Bush & Cheney.

They keep having hearings. Impeachment gets tossed around here and there. More hearings, more hearings. More crimes exposed.

Now what the hell do you think will happen next?

[John Q. Citizen]

162. Americans get so pissed at the do nothing congress, at the bigger occupation,

the fact that all the subpoenas and witnesses are tied up in court for months while issues of executive privilege are argued, that congress has ignored the clear will of the American people that they decide they are all a bunch of corrupt bastards and they just stay home this time since voting last time accomplished absolutely nothing? And they would be right?

Or

bush attacks Iran with a sustained ariel bombardment, people take to the streets to protest, agent provocateurs incite violence, bush declares martial law and suspends congress and the 2008 elections in the name of national security, just for few weeks, then months, then?

or

Ok, I get your point about "timing." But lots of people understand timing, not just Pelosi. Like the bush administration, like Steny Hoyer, like Cindy Sheehan, like the Repos in congress, like the Dems in congress, like the corporations, like the media corporations, the intel services etc, and that's just here, not including other countries

Here's another scenario.

Cindy figures (or has allies in congress who tell her, or the press etc.) the dam is about to burst on the impeachment scene. So she demands that Pelosi either puts impeachment on the table or she's going to run against her. Pelosi actually does put impeachment on the table and Americans rejoice, the evidence is laid out, witnesses are called, executive privilege can't stop the investigation and the house impeaches Chaney. Then it goes to the Senate, Chaney keels over and dies of a heart attack. Does he get a state funeral?

Anyway, I sure hope Nancy knows what the hell she's doing.

[hiphopnation]

192. fantastic f*#king post, Mr. Citizen

thanks for this piece of lucidity on an otherwise logically hazy day.

:thumbsup:

on edit: I'm particularly interested in your last scenario, and happen to think that this is Cindy's real M.O. here. I can't believe she would have any real chance, or even real desire to be a Congressional rep. She's just really pissed and this is a tactical move - a pretty brilliant tactical move, at that.

[John Q. Citizen]

201. Thank you for your kind words. It's good to know that people actually read

my posts, and even better when they enjoy them.

Cindy is holding Nancy's feet to the fire, and using the leverage available. And she probably knows what she's doing, cause I get the impression she's pretty smart.

I think Cindy wants to see impeachment on the table, as do most Anericans.

[hiphopnation]

193. repeat

[mod mom]

46. I would love to see a progressive challenge him and win. That would be a wake up

call now, won't it?

[Radical Activist]

48. Progressives once challenged him in the primary, but

never in the general election. A Green would have instant ballot access in the general. Its a 75% Democratic district so there's no chance of throwing it to a Republican.

[EFerrari]

47. You PDA types need to put up a good contender. Yesterday. n/t

[pinto]

19. I dunno. Not sure if impeachment and an Iraq withdrawal are the same.

I support the resurgent and burgeoning peace movement and an Iraq withdrawal. I note as well, the growing calls for an end to this from the other side of the aisle.

If there's a practical choice between impeachment or an Iraq withdrawal in the last year and a half of this administration, I'd have to go for ending the war.

I know impeachment of Mr. Bush is a hot topic, with many good and valid arguments from Democrats across the spectrum, this is just my personal take.

Building the coalition needed to withdraw from Iraq, as soon as possible, seems much more realistic than impeachment of the president. And the benefit in limiting the violence, or at least our role in it, seem paramount.


(ed for clarity, grammar)

[paulk]

123. I feel the same way -

We need to work on the coalition that will be necessary for a withdrawal. Impeachment will be a distraction.

The investigations will continue - the crimes of the Bush junta will be exposed. The Republican party will continue to abandon him, if only for their own political survival. Impeaching Bush, at this point, will benefit the Republicans more than the Democrats, at least politically. I really don't think the lame duck BushCo can do much more damage.

[Nutmegger]

20. Impeach, Indict, Imprison.

The thugs in the WH need to be taken away. The coup perpetrated in this country in 2000 was illegal and the only true President is Al Gore.

Why is impeachment off the table?

I stand with Cindy, and always will.

[calimary]

21. You GO, Cindy - AND all those Others who will follow.

You know, this doesn't HAVE to happen. Nancy doesn't HAVE to face such blowback. This is self-inflicted. I wish I could feel some sympathy. But then again, I'M another one of those millions of Democrats WHO FORM OUR PARTY'S BASE, okay??? I'm another one of the base that worked our collective asses off all last year and gave til it hurt - to make sure Dems would recapture the majorities in both houses. They couldn't be where they are without US - those diehard workers and devoted volunteers who put them back on top. The ONE thing I can think of that I actually, and begrudgingly, admire about the republi-CONS, they pay a great deal of attention to their base. Their base says "jump," their response is "how high?" All the Democrats seem to do is deride us for being too extremist or too lefty or too liberal and pretend they don't know us. Hell, there's NO SUCH THING as being too liberal!!! Being liberal IS what our party's supposed to be about. Besides, WE are the ones who brought her and the rest of 'em to the dance. Now they don't wanna dance with us? Who do they want to cling to instead, somebody like lieberman??? Who the hell do they think they are?

BTW - did you see the paper plates idea? Send paper plates to Nancy Pelosi, with postage and the proper address ON the plate, along with the message: NANCY, SET THE TABLE! IMPEACHMENT, NOW!!!!!

Here's the link - and proud2Blib, I'M proud to say it was a great idea - and ALL YOURS!!!

:toast:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1267038

[Purveyor]

25. Good for Cindy. Pelosi and her Senate equal Reid are a disappointment up to this point... eom

[jgraz]

26. The only way we are going to get traction with the establishment Dems...

is to answer the question "who else are you going to vote for?" and answer it decisively. Until then, everything we really want will continue to be "off the table".

[MuseRider]

39. BINGO

that is the only pressure we have left. Nothing else has worked.

[EFerrari]

40. That's right. While our votes are taken for granted, we got nothing.

I wish Cindy would run as a Democrat, though.

[bluestateguy]

28. Let's just say she wins

As an independent, as she says she will be:

She would be a freshman with no power and no influence. She would have no committee assignments because you have to caucus with one of the major parties to get a committee assignment. If she knocks off Pelosi, the Democrats will want nothing to do with her, so she will have no committee assignments, and no ability to influence the legislative process save for making speeches in front of an empty House chamber at 1AM, and casting lone roll call votes out of 435 members.

And does she have positions on other issues other than the war? The war is not the only issue in American politics today.

[EFerrari]

34. If it isn't Cindy, it will be someone else. This district is pissed

at Pelosi. It will be Matt Gonzalez or someone else. If Dems were smart, they'd get Cindy to run as a Dem in the primary. If not, you're looking at splitting the vote bigtime and not in Nancy's favor and in the end, not in service of the liberal project.

Nancy has to represent this district or get off the pot. That's the sentiment here afaik. :shrug:

[roguevalley]

65. what if she runs and wins. Consider it. the people of her district are

choosing who they want and she would win fair and square. that's democracy. that's the will of the people. as for not wanting to be with her, they will need all their votes and if Hoyer is pissed at pelosi for not allowing impeachment, she will be HARD PRESSED to keep discipline. Fuck pelosi. Anyone with a backbone will do for me.

[Dr.Phool]

31. You file Cindy.

I'll send a check. And if possible, I'll come out to Cali to help out.

[DancingBear]

33. "George Bush is a nice enough man" - Nancy Pelosi

Go Cindy!!!!!!!!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Isn't this great news?

We are all pretty excited here in central TX.

[DancingBear]

176. You bet it is!

Shall we meet again at Sheehan campaign HQ???

[proud2BlibKansan]

177. I am there right now

Getting ready to head home here in a bit.

And you know I will come back in a minute if Cindy asks for our help.

Hey our hotel is across the street from Bush's chicken. :rofl:

[struggle4progress]

35. Okay. I'll rain on the parade. Folks here need to read the history of the Weimar Republic.

I'm frankly concerned we're not well-organized enough to squander limited energy fighting Democrats, when we have real enemies who are busy spying on us, subverting the courts and justice system, raising private armies, and destroying the institutions of our once-free society.

The Weimar Republic collapsed because groups, that could have opposed dictatorship, spent their energies fighting each other rather than fighting their real enemy.

As disappointed as many of us may be that the Congressional Democrats haven't yet gone as far as we have wanted them to go, it's important to realize that winning political fights long-term is a matter of grass-roots organization.

If anybody wants to pressure Pelosi, I'd guess the thing to do is to put together a campaign to knock on every door in Pelosi's district and try to get every constituent to hand-address a postcard, write by hand the word IMPEACH on the postcard, add the constituent's name and return address, and try to collect a $5 donation.

Something like that would send the message. Directly threatening a primary challenge won't.

[Elspeth]

41. Excellent response!

I wish I could recommend it.

[EFerrari]

49. Someone will challenge her. If not Cindy, someone else.

It's going to happen. No Republic can win here. It's more a matter of whether a Democrat wins or an Indy wins.

[struggle4progress]

53. Well, I don't know the district, and I've only seen Sheehan through the eyes of press and blog

but from this distance, it doesn't seem to me that Sheehan has the skills or experience needed to win a fight for a Congressional seat. I'll reiterate what I just said: winning either the underlying policy fight or the seat is 100% about organization, and it looks to me like the first test of that is the ability to coordinate door-knocking

[sandnsea]

58. It's a joke

Waste of time, talent and money. Makes me angry that people who have the access are just pissing it away like this. Change comes when the votes come. If they want change, go where the votes are and get them.

[EFerrari]

61. I know at least two other potential contenders for this seat.

The natives are really, really restless and the progressive community here is really, really together.

[proud2BlibKansan]

121. Don't you get it?

It isn't about winning. It's about pulling Pelosi more to the left.

[struggle4progress]

124. Uh, yeah: let me then say (for the third time, I think)

that such an agenda is most effectively advanced by grassroots organization, which means actually getting out into the district and knocking on doors trying to get people to undertake certain specific actions intended to move the apparent political center of the district. Left pressure works best when large numbers of people are put in motion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. And you are sure there WON'T be large numbers?

12,000 people came to Crawford, TX in a 25 day period 2 years ago.


12,000

[struggle4progress]

136. I can't remember living in a district where a large number turned out for a Congressional campaign

Guess there might could be a first time for anything but ... uh ... no ... I is rilly havin a hard time imaginin a ground-swell of excitement around a Congressional campaign. But if that's what you thinks is gonna apply pressure ....

[MuseRider]

125. Oh man

and I thought it was always all about the winning. :P :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

132. Only to the simple minded

:)


The rest of us can see the big picture here.

[MuseRider]

134. YIKES!

You are feeling feisty tonight. That good old Crawford Peace House Confidence. :hug:

It is a far bigger picture than the game itself, especially when both sides are shooting at the same basket.

[PVnRT]

191. Exactly. Let's try and take out one enemy at a time.

Of course, that doesn't satisfy the egos of those who demand that their needs be met NOW, so it will never happen.

[JudyM]

194. Right on. She needs to focus on pressing whatever parts of our agenda

she feels she can make realistic progress on.

I personally do not want to see dems expending energy on getting *co out of office, at the expense of the rest of the agenda

and

I especially do not want their replacements in the executive branch to have a leg up in 11/08 by being INCUMBENTS!!!

[MsMagnificent]

234. What parts of our agenda?

Continuation of funding Bush's wars?

'Surge' instead of withdrawal?

Taking out the clause that it is Congress who has the authority to declare war, instead leaving it back to the single decision of Teh Decider'?


I was surprised to see that those were in the Democrats agenda... but by your argument, if Nancy Pelosi did it,
well they must be! :crazy:

[John Q. Citizen]

38. I'm writing Speaker Pelosi to urge her to put impeachment back on the table,

If not for justice, if not for the rule of law, if not for the US constitution, if not for the good of the country, then at least for the sake of the Democratic Party, put impeachment it back on the table.

I'm also going to inform her that I'm prepared to come to San Francisco and to work for Cindy's election as a volunteer if Madam Speaker continues to ignore the will of her own constiuents, the will of Democratic Party members around the country, and the will of the American people.

I urge everyone else to do the same or simular. Do what you can do. This is it. It's time to turn up the heat.

[warren pease]

120. As do I about twice a week, along with phone calls to SF and DC offices...

As a native San Franciscan, I feel a ton of nostalgia for pols like John Burton, George Moscone and Harvey Milk, none of whom would take a cubic millimeter of shit from a republican, would happily attack them at every opportunity, then laugh their asses off at republican idiocy and hypocrisy. Pelosi isn't fit to shine their shoes.

We just can't afford BushCo running around free for the next year and a half. They are armed and dangerous criminals and Simple justice demands that they be impeached, removed, indicted, prosecuted, convicted, sentenced and preferably hanged until dead or sentenced to life at Abu Ghraib. That goes for at least 12 of these rat fuckers that I can think of off the top of my head; I'm sure there are dozens more equally deserving.

Anything less is unacceptable and will be interpreted by future megalomaniacs as the full employment act for American fascists.

So Ms. "off the table," Ms. "no time for distractions," Ms. "not in the best interests of the American people..." How about we decide about our own best interests and you just go do your goddamned job -- which is exactly, as your employers, what we say it is.


wp

[Edweird]

43. Good for her. They are there to represent OUR interests, not theirs.

[Dem_Wit]

45. HA HA!! Yea, I'd vote for Cindy.

Hey, even if she's not "on the ballot" could I still "write" her in?

[MonkeyFunk]

56. I'm sure Pelosi is scared

:eyes:

[Raine]

83. Yeah sure

:rofl:

[ISUGRADIA]

63. Aside from a few of the more kooky lefties not many people

in that district are going to vote for someone from Vacaville.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. Well, It's A Ridiculously Misguided Plan That Will Only Serve To Embarrass Her.

I'm not sure where she got this ridiculous notion from, but in the end it will serve no benefit to anyone.

I also think it's a sign of how far off the productive path she's gone when she is choosing a Democrat, and a good Democrat at that, to go after instead of one of the vile piece of shit republicans. Someone could give me all the 'impeachment is off the table' justifications in the world and it still wouldn't make her strategy here any less pathetic.

I like Cindy as a person and understand what she stands for and why. I feel for her tremendously for her loss and understand her passionate motivation for what she does. I appreciate and commend her for her bravery and courage in the start of this war movement and the many accomplishments she has had doing so. But she lost her way for some time now and this recent move is even further proof of how misguided she's become in the arena of true benefit.

This whole challenging Pelosi thing is just plain dumb.

[NaturalHigh]

187. "Misguided" isn't the word I would have chosen.

"Batshit crazy" comes to mind.

[LittleClarkie]

79. If she won, she would not get the speaker position, and someone she likes less might

Or does she not care about that. Is this more of a punishment move?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, if she runs, will Sheehan supporters be restricted in supporting their Independant candidate the way Lieberman supporters were?

Eh, knock yourself out, Mrs. Sheehan. Whatever floats your boat.

[EFerrari]

86. This is called holding feet to fire. And while I'd prefer Cindy run

as a Dem, that's not up to me. Stir in, there may be other contenders within and without the party.

Nancy is making a mistake in more or less telling her district to shut up while she does important stuff. It's not sitting well back here. :shrug:

/oops

[LittleClarkie]

90. If her district is unsatisfied, then by all means, anyone who wants to should oppose her

Cindy included.

I just suspect Cindy's impact will not be what she hopes it will be. I suspect she over-estimates it.

[EFerrari]

94. I don't think she has that kind of ego, lol. But I seriously wish

Nancy would enter into a dialogue with her district that isn't one sided. Because we could do without this fight.

San Francisco has passed resolutions to pull out of Iraq and to impeach and etc. There's a disconnect with our rep that she isn't even trying to address. And, that's too bad. :(

I don't know how Cindy would do. And there are at least two other attractive candidates who are not Democrats who would do as well if not better. They just haven't had the sand to declare yet. Maybe they don't need to, yet.

[jarnocan]

81. Thanks are you coming with her to GREENSBORO? nt THANKS&cool!

[proud2BlibKansan]

129. Oh I wish I could!

Be sure to take lots of pics and post them!

[Raine]

89. Impeachment

the most important issue facing mankind. :sarcasm: I'm concerned about mankind surviving at all because of global warming an issue that Pelosi votes my way on. Well I guess if we forget about issues like having air to breath in place of impeachment that will solve everything. :eyes:

[az chela]

92. I was waiting til this evening to post this,Cindy sent it to me

today but I see it is already on here so I want to say to all of you IF NANCY doesnt get off her dead ass and start IMPEACHMENT <I will to every thing in my power and get everyone i know to help me to get Cindy to run against her~~~~~~~~~~

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. Isn't it great news?

:hi:

[creeksneakers2]

97. Strange way to get impeachment

Nancy Pelosi doesn't decide on her own. All you are doing is helping Republicans. If anybody out there had a serious notion of doing something to get Bush, they'd be calling their reps asking for Dems to press contempt charges against the Bush administration for failing to respond to subpoenas. Contempt charges might escalate into impeachment. There's no chance of impeachment now. The votes aren't there. It doesn't matter how many Democrats get threatened. Of course, doing it the easy way wouldn't have the radical revolutionary type excitement to it.

The far left's thinking makes so little sense. You want to get rid of Democrats instead of Republicans. What if Harry Reid ignores Republicans but helps you get rid of Pelosi? Is he on our side or not? If you want to help Republicans, then why hate Democrats for not doing enough to Republicans? Shouldn't Democrats try to impeach Democrats? Suppose you make lots of Democrats lose and they then fear you. What good will they be able to do if they aren't elected? What will Cindy Sheehan be able to do if she's elected with a GOP Congress and president?

I don't know about you in particular but there were lots of far lefties here who worked against Democrats as hard as they could from 2000 on, at least here, mostly with the same logic you are offering tonight.

There sure isn't enough punch on the net to replace the votes from the middle that would be lost to a radical agenda. Check out how much money has been raised on DU. $6,000 to $7,000 last time I looked. Nothing irreplaceable.

[kikiek]

98. How about taking on Boehner from OH or Lewis from CA? Take on one of the real obstacles.

[EFerrari]

106. Going right to the top is not a bad strategy for people who

feel they aren't being represented.

Myself, I'd love to see Duncan Hunter selling cars. lol

[ShaneGR]

109. Uh huh, and Sheehan is quiting the Anti-War movement too....

What's next, she's gonna form an army and invade Connecticut?

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. LOL She might be able to do just that!

She did a pretty good job on Crawford, TX.

[creeksneakers2]

113. Sheehan threat led our local news

Democrats were planning to take another swipe at the war in September. We are headed toward contempt charges that could end up with impeachment. How will all this be reported thanks to folks like Cindy?

"Democrats cave in to the kook fringe."

[Individualist]

114. ...and DLCers are shitting their britches

I love it.

:rofl:

[bicentennial_baby]

118. Except that they aren't

This is an idle threat, at best...yawn.

And while I don't support or endorse the DLC in the slightest, I feel that this is a Fool's Endeavor. Ridiculous, and counterproductive.

[Individualist]

122. ...

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

180. So do I

It's about time they paid attention to their base.

[tomreedtoon]

116. I don't think it'll work, but it'll make a point.

Even if Sheehan doesn't win, it'll tarnish and shame Pelosi and the elected Democrats for their passivity. And it will show the Democratic Party's apparatus as timid and faulty. Which is what people have been saying here for a long time...but this will make it pretty damn public.

[ellisonz]

128. 67.

[bvar22]

133. Win, lose, or draw....doesn't matter.

Because of Cindy's actions TODAY, more Americans will be demanding impeachment TOMORROW.

Thank You, Cindy.
:patriot:

[proud2BlibKansan]

141. Ding! Ding! Ding!

You get it!! :yourock:

[John Q. Citizen]

165. Good point! n/t

[merh]

135. With all due respect to Cindy and the call for impeachment

Isn't this Democratic Underground and doesn't this thread violate the rules?

Cindy will run as an independent against Pelosi, leaving that seat vulnerable to republican take over.

Do you guys really want to give the power back to republicans?

Cindy is wrong, imho, and so is this thread.

[EFerrari]

139. Seat will never go to the thugs in this district but you may be right about

skirting DU rules. I'm sure that wasn't the OP's intention.

[merh]

146. If Cindy wanted to be effective as a candidate and as an

office holder, she would run as a member of the democratic party.

It doesn't skirt the rules, it is supportive of someone that wants to run against a seated dem who also happens to be the 2nd in line to the office you all think she should demand be vacated.

I think she has to walk a fine line, she can't call for impeachment that would be seen as partisan, but she also shouldn't oppose it. I'm disappointed in her, her statements that the constitution isn't worth the time or money was shameful.

[EFerrari]

148. I don't think the Democrats would have her.

We're going to be seeing more of this until the party leaders reconnect with their base. And, that's a shame. We better get our Bactine out. :(

[merh]

150. The party can't reject her, she can run against Pelosi as a dem

She can challenge her in the primaries, which is a lot easier to do than a 3 way race. She can be the dem that reconnects the base to the party, if she really wanted to be effective.

[EFerrari]

153. I wish she would do that. That would be a powerful move. n/t

[merh]

157. That would be the most effective move, if she truly cared to make

a difference. It is easier to unseat an elected dem in the primaries than it is in a 3 way race and if she were to be a dem, she could try to represent the base. Not only that, the win in the primaries would send a very powerful message to the dem leadership, that the "radical fringe" of the party can't be ignored and that the DLC suxs.

.

[EFerrari]

163. I agree. I'm sort of worried about this district right now.

Nancy could heal it up if she took the trouble -- maybe she has too much on her plate.

And, I'm not against challengers because competition makes our votes more valuable.

But the way this is going down is needless and that's too bad.

[merh]

182. The republicans would back Sheehan against Nancy in the

primaries, that would make her a true threat - as an independent she is no threat.

[EFerrari]

190. I don't think we have enough Republicans for that to happen.

Commies maybe. :)

[merh]

196. The repubs from all over would funnel so much money into

the Sheehan camp if she opposed Pelosi, you would be amazed at how her coffers would fill. You think narrowly, in terms of your area, that is living with blinders on. The repubs stopped doing that years ago, to them, it is all about the power and the win and they come from all over to support the opponent of their enemy.

[EFerrari]

197. I get your point, it's a good one. But this is a weird little place.

I watched Matt Gonzalez likely win the mayor's race with no money at all, just an army of kids. It was amazing. And Gavin had TONS of money and even brought in Bill Clinton to campaign for him.

Even so, they had to disappear a bunch of ballots into the bay so Gavin could "win". :shrug:

Never underestimate crazy. :hi:

And, I'm thinking Cindy should run as a Democrat.

[proud2BlibKansan]

143. Why would this thread break the rules?

:shrug:

[merh]

145. It is supporting an independent that is challenging the

democratic office holder.

If Cindy wanted to make a difference, she would run as a democratic candidate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

147. It is reporting Cindy's intent to hold Pelosi's feet to the fire

You can view that as support if you want. But that certainly wasn't my intention.

[merh]

149. She can hold Nancy's feet to the fire as a member of the

democratic party. We need all the dems we can get in office, Congress is screwed because we still don't have the majority we need.

Someone needs to explain to her the importance of the balance of power and how her running as an independent puts her in Lieberman's league. Is that really what she wants?

[proud2BlibKansan]

151. She has been holding Pelosi's feet to the fire!

This is about ending the war. Party loyalty is not the number one objective here.

[EFerrari]

154. But it may be here at DU. n/t

[merh]

156. It is about impeachment

If you pay attention, the shift is happening the republicans are pulling away from Bush's war and the conservatives are calling him on his bullshit.

Did you ever think you would read an editorial posted by the John Birch Society that ends with this statement?

Our modern-day citizen-soldiers should never have been sent to war against Iraq, and they should not be there now. If we truly want to celebrate the Founding Fathers who won our independence for us, and support our modern-day citizen soldiers who have been placed in harm’s way in Iraq, we would bring our soldiers home — now!

The article is titled: No, Mr. President: The Iraq War Is Not the American Revolution
http://www.jbs.org/node/4643

The shift is to end the war.

I want impeachment as much as anyone else, I don't see this making it happen and supporting an independent against a seated dem is wrong.

.

[John Q. Citizen]

166. Fortunatly, Cindy hasn't filed yet, and she won't file if Pelosi puts impeachment back

on the table.

I happen to think she will put it back on the table.

[merh]

181. I happen to think blackmail is wrong - no matter who does it

and for what purpose.

I think it is a bad idea -- not sure that Pelosi will do it just because of Sheehan's threats.

[John Q. Citizen]

188. You may call democracy blackmail

if you want. In many ways it's set up to be just that.

I suppose it makes a lot of people who write letters to their elected officials blackmailers too.

You know; "Dear Senator X, if you don't vote against cloture, I will never vote for you again.' In fact I will do everything in my power to help find and run a better candidate against you, one who better represents their constituents instead of the bush crime family."

Yes I suppose you could construe that as some sort of "blackmail." but I hardly think it's a crime. In fact it seems quite healthy to democracy, if you ask me.

Elected officials need to know there will be consequences for actions, or lack of actions, that harm their constituents.

So just out of curiousity, why do you imagine that Pelosi is totally ignoring the will of her voters? Is she beimg blackmailed by bush? The media? Her donars? Or does she just not really care that much what her constiuents want?

Also, do you call it blackmail when a Speaker says to a Member, if you don't vote to pass bill x, then your bill y will never see the light of day? Or is that just 'armtwisting' as opposed to "blackmail" and why?

Also, using your logic, I guess you would call campaign promises bribes, because candidates are promising voters something to get them to vote for them. "If elected, I will work to hold bush accountable," would be a bribe to your way of thinking?

[merh]

195. That's not democracy

IF she wants to run with a chance of making a difference, if she wants to do a better job and represent the base, then she needs to run on the democratic ticket (she has a better chance of winning running against Pelosi in the dem primaries, the repubs would support her to take out nancy). As an indie, she has no shot and that proves to me she doesn't care to be effective, she is just making noise and threats and political blackmail is not democracy. I don't care how you label it. If she wants to make a difference, change the world then she has to start using her head and knowing the system, emotions get tiresome after awhile and folks don't see you as anything more than an emotionally unstable person and discount your message.

[Irishonly]

137. I Don't Know About Everyone Else

I was so full of hope in January. I thought we were finally going to get some things done. I write and call all of the time demanding impeachment, to start getting the law involved on ignored subpoenas and to get out troops out of Iraq. I am tired of trite responses. If I read the original post correctly there may be a lot more than Pelosi challenged. At this point I don't see it as a bad thing. Maybe it will open some eyes and get our representatives to listen. The old system doesn't work and democrats are really making me mad right now. They seemed surprised when they were booed a few weeks ago. We elected them to make a difference. Right now all they seem to be doing is spinning their wheels and if they have to be shaken up to listen to We, the people, so be it.

[John Q. Citizen]

168. I think a shift is taking place as we write. Conyers talked about impeachment today

as a stick to get the administration to comply with subpeonas. The poll was just released showing overwhelming Democratic support for impeachment and a clear majority of independants for impeachment, The Repos are now starting to talk about the war is stupid, lost, wrong, Reid just said he sees a shift on the war, and I think the Dems are getting the message, and the more they do the better. Same for the Repos, but the Dems are in charge of Congress.

People are flooding out of the administration, and the news seems to be only bad for bush. I think we are close to the tipping point, and I think Cindy sees that, and is pressing the issue.

[Yukari Yakumo]

216. It's not the Dems are getting the message

They're seeing the one thing they need to get the ball rolling: The Congressional Repugs are splintering apart.

Cindy has no effect on anyone except the lunatic fringe on both sides. She no longer has the credibility or the support like she used to. The Dems want nothing to do with her since they'd see her as a pariah. The Repukes "love" her since she gives them a perfect scapegoat. Faux Noise Channel can bring up her name whenever they want to demonize by proxy peace activists and impeachment supporters.

[Laurier]

140. What? She can't find a repug to run against?

Unbelievable.

[BlooInBloo]

142. Most irrelevant development of the week.

[Occulus]

159. Well, I'm sure Pelosi is new-milk white with fright, then. n/t

[Vidar]

160. I don't think Cindy can win but this will certainly put the focus on

Pelosi's ignoring the will of both her constituents & the public at large. Appeasement is not a viable strategy. Bravo Cindy!

[proud2BlibKansan]

161. Yes - you get it!

:)

[az chela]

167. Bravo from me too Cindy,you are the bravest person I know!!

[John Q. Citizen]

169. I don't think I'd want to mess with Cindy. She seems very tenacious, and she's smart, and

it's hard to figure out if she's brave or fearless, which makes her even more formidable.

She also seems like a really warm, nice person.

[philosophie_en_rose]

171. I want an oompa loompa. I want an oompa loompa right away.

Because if you don't give me an oompa loompa, Nancy, I'll never talk to you again.

And I'll run against you.

And - if I affect the election at all - neither of us will win.

But that's okay.

That won't lead to the result that I want,

But if I don't get my oompa loompa, to hell with everyone and everything else.

[proud2BlibKansan]

172. You are actually comparing ending an illegal war and holding the men who started it

accountable - to a character in a children's book?

Good grief. Get a grip.

:rofl:

[chknltl]

174. Help me out here...

Is Cindy Sheehan threatening to run as an Independent against both Nancy Pelosi and her Republican challenger, if there is one? I am not clear how that process of election works at the moment.

If that is how this works, I applaud this idea! Threatening to siphon off votes, "The Ralph Nader Maneuver", should get the attention of just about every one of those Democratic "enablers"! If that indeed is how the process works, I hope it is emulated all across our country! Quite likely it will have the desired affect and the "Will Of The People" shall take on a whole new priority!

Again, I am NOT at all clear on this phase of the elections process. I may be mistaken as to how Cyndi Sheehan plans to run against Representative Pelosi. If so, I hope a fellow DUer can help me out here because this all sounds quite intriguing to say the least!

[proud2BlibKansan]

175. Yes she will run as an independent

You got it right.

[gollygee]

183. I Love it!

If she beats Pelosi, that will send a very very strong message to both parties. Go Cindy! The Democrats need to stop being so compliant and gutless.

[dave123williams]

185. Pelosi would eat her lunch.

[emilyg]

211. and spit her out

[Irishonly]

186. Thanks

I don't recall being so frustrated and angry since Nixon. I am not in Pelosi's district but I will contribute as much as I can (disabled). I am really very tired of being treated like I am talking to a wall by the PTB.

[northzax]

199. so I will ask the same question of you

that none of the other single issue people here seem to answer:

November of 2008, the race for President is between strong anti-war Ron Paul or wishy-washy on the war Hillary Clinton. who do you vote for? is it really that big of a single issue for you that you would vote for the guy who is diametrically opposed to everything else you believe in?

[proud2BlibKansan]

239. Because of the Supreme Court, I would hold my nose and vote for Hillary

[onehandle]

202. Will DUers waste their time and resources to overturn a sitting Democrat...

...instead of expanding Democratic control of Congress and making change possible?

Pelosi ain't Lieberman.

Remember Nader and what he brought us.

[BlooInBloo]

203. No-one hates Democrats more than DUers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

247. That's What We Call A Paradox

eom

[saracat]

204. This is stupid and now I absolutely believe Cindy is an attention monger.I am so sorry to see this.I

originally thought she was the "real dael".But I was wrong, or maybe she just changed.First she said she was going to "retire" and now this.She is absolutely no better than the pols she accuses of flip flopping.She is not qualified in any manner to be in Congress.I expect I will be flamed for this.But I remind you I marched with Cindy and promoted her in the beginning but this is outrageously stupid!

[EFerrari]

206. What kind of cred do you need to serve in Congress?

May I remind you that career politicians are a modern invention, not what the founders envisioned?

These attacks on Cindy from people who should know better frankly leave me flummoxed.

[Yukari Yakumo]

213. The type of cred so that the average joe won't think you are a total whack job. nt

[EFerrari]

214. The average Joe agrees with Sheehan about ending the war

and has for some time. :hi:

[saracat]

229. From some of her statements it is doubtful Cindy even knows how congress functions!

What kind of education does she have? Does she know anything about the government? I am sorry but I find her ridiculous.And while "career politicians" may not be favored by some, experience DOES count, and Cindy could never get any meaningful legislation passed.

[EFerrari]

230. Where does this come from? You don't know her background

so assume she'd be ineffective? I'm not really talking about Cindy but about this rush to judgement.

[saracat]

231. I am asking what background she has.My assumption about her lack of

knowledge of the legislative process is based on her statements. It is that lack that I think would make her ineffective as well as a complete inability to compromise.And politics is "the art of compromise".

[EFerrari]

236. Which statements, saracat? And, what makes you believe

she's incapable of compromise? Politics is also about picking your fights and knowing when to compromise and when to stand tall.

[earthlover]

209. good point

Just seems like yesterday that Cindy was ending her movement. I sympathized as did a lot of us. But now this?

Seriously, I don't think this is a time to knock Cindy. I think she has been through a lot.

However, we gotta remember that the way out of Iraq, and the way to prevent future Iraqs is to vote out the Republicans in 08. If we focus instead on attacking Democrats, we will be squandering a wonderful opportunity to win both houses of Congress and the Presidency.

It is not lost on me that the reason we have had a Bush regime, and the reason the Bush regime was in power to start the Iraq War, was because Ralph Nader's votes in Florida. So, in a real sense, the blood of Cindy's son is on Ralph's hands. What a pity, if a future Iraq in Iran happens because we as a party were so divided we could not elect a government that would make for a sane policy for the Middle East!

[L. Coyote]

205. Only one problem. This will deter the impeachment effort and the effort to stop the war.

It may sound like a good idea on the face of it, on an impulsive level. However, this sort of threatening behavior is very counter-productive. It will not have the intended consequence, and likely will have the opposite effect. Unity of tho oppostion is what is needed right now, and divisiveness is playing for the opposite team. It is, for all practical purposes, a perfect Republican strategy, divide the Dems like in '68. We have no memory, it seems.

[earthlover]

212. The Reps funded Nader, they will fund Cindy too if she runs indie

The Reps have no shortage of volunteers to further their cause. Too bad Cindy unknowingly fills the bill

[EFerrari]

215. Do some research on Hillary's funding and get back to us. n/t

[earthlover]

219. The reps will not fund hillary in the general

if cindy runs as an indie, the Reps WILL fund her. Just like they funded Nader.

You present an Apples vs fish arguement.

[EFerrari]

220. Go see for yourself n/t

[earthlover]

225. So are you saying the Reps are going to fund Hillary in the general election?

Think. Things. Through.

[proud2BlibKansan]

240. They are already funding her!

Have you forgotten about the fundraising Rupert Murdoch is doing for Hillary?

[rinsd]

254. You seem to prefer rhetoric over facts

"Have you forgotten about the fundraising Rupert Murdoch is doing for Hillary"

Rupert Murdoch donated $4K to Hillary's Senate campaign and held a single fundraiser for her Senate campaign.

[Imagevision]

232. Go see SiCKO on Hillary Medical & Ins. Co's contributions and get back to us...

right now Hillary has gotten more backing from the medical groups then any other candidate...

[L. Coyote]

227. The Sharpton campaign was a covert Republican operation too

intended to make the Dem candidates look bad.

[EFerrari]

237. LOL!

[paulk]

252. don't laugh

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0405,barrett,50745,1.html

[roxnev]

208. Up cindys

why try to ko a Democrat that just shows Hate for the party. If she hates the Democrats so bad join the Republicans. Cindy talks like a spoiled Republican brat, If it ain't my way I will take my vote and go home. :nopity:

[EFerrari]

218. No, spoiled Republican brats embrace the status quo

they don't buck it.

And, there are more than two choices in our system, whether you like it or not.

[earthlover]

221. Reps will fund Cindy's campaign because they want the status quo to remain

May be the only way to defeat a Dem these days....thanks Cindy!

[Yukari Yakumo]

222. Have to agree with you there

If she does run, keep an eye on where her campaign contributions come from. I'd wager much if it will be from RW sources.

[EFerrari]

223. She was the Dem's to lose. n/t

[JacquesMolay]

217. And I'll be sending her money if she does ...

... Pelosi has totally taken the momentum out our Democratic 'surge'. She's not pushing for Universal Health Care, she's not pushing withdrawal for Iraq. It's not like Sheehan will caucus with the Republicans. But the rest of the party will get the message that we want things done.

Go Cindy Sheehan!

[earthlover]

224. Gees, she is leader of the caucus, not dictator!

Believe it or not....take a deep breath.....but Pelosi does not have magical powers over the caucus. If there are not enough votes on an issue, she can exert some influence of course. But she can't wave a magic want and convert the Democratic caucus into one that is going to vote for impeachment.

And...dose of reality time here....maybe the other Democrats see something that some of the DU enthusiasers can't....like the potential for a backlash, like saddling the entire government time into impeachment when there are other issues to be dealt with that would have to be put on the back burner, etc.

[LittleClarkie]

226. As someone pointed out, even one of our best speakers

Tip O'Neill, couldn't get that much done against Reagan.

[EFerrari]

228. That's very true. (Lord, he was great!) But, it's not the people's job

to stop rumbling. :shrug:

[earthlover]

233. yes, but wouldn't it be better if the "people" focused on defeating Reps in 08?

Cindy running is so predictable. Every word she says will be amplified by the national media. So when she inevitably says that there is no difference between Reps and Dems, this will get broadcast nationwide. It will be like Nader with a megaphone. And the Reps will think they died and went to heaven. They couldn't have planned anything better for their chances. By election time 08, impeachment won't make much sense as an issue since Bush will be out of office after the election anyway. It will just look partisan and mean at this point to many, and help elect Reps to Congress. Way to go, Cindy!

[EFerrari]

235. Political decisions have consequences. Cindy didn't fund

Bush's war or take impeachment off the table.

[earthlover]

238. Yes political decisions have consequences....

The political decision of Nader to run in Florida as an independent in 00 had the consequences of 8 years of Bush, an immoral war, the Constitution weakened, the environment being guarded by the wolves, and Cindy's son being killed, for that matter.

Now, if enough Democrats, for similar reasons as motivated Naderites, leave the Democratic Party for independents, we will have 8 more years of Republican rule, probably another immoral war, the Constitution will be further weakened, the environment being guarded by the wolves, and so forth. Yes, consequences.

It would be one thing for Cindy to run in the primaries. But when she follows Nader's lead, she only becomes a tool of the very enemies she hates.

[EFerrari]

241. The Nader argument is tired and inaccurate. Nader isn't on the

Supreme Court.

Cindy's was the Dem's to lose and they did that.

[earthlover]

244. Who said Nader was on the supreme court?

If Nader had not campaigned in Florida....then Gore would have won Florida by enough votes that they wouldn't have had to count hanging chads and the Supreme Court would never have had to be involved!

No, Cindy was not the Democrats. Democrats do not own slaves.

Cindy, of her own free will, chose to attack the Democratic Party.

You don't expect those of us who don't like Bush to support someone who acts like Nader, the guy responsible for Bush's "victory" do you?

[EFerrari]

245. How many votes were spoiled or uncounted in Florida? Do

you have any idea?

[earthlover]

246. Point is, Gore would have HANDILY won Florida without Nader campaigning in Florida

Bush "won" by 500 votes. How many thousand voted for the spoiler?

[EFerrari]

248. Greg Palast's estimate is 20,000, iirc. No, they were going to

steal FL with or without Nader. And they'll do it again, too, if we don't mind the election.

[earthlover]

249. Official vote total for Nader in FL: 97,421

Any way you cut it, the 500 or so margin would have been reversed if Nader had not campaigned in Florida. With or without that 20,000 figure.

If it were not for Nader, we would never have heard about hanging chads. If it were not for Nader, just think of how much evil done by the Bush administration would not have been done. If not for Nader, think of how much good that could have been done by Gore if he were allowed to be president.

We have had two terms of Bush because a small number of people bought into Nader's bullshit that there was not any difference between Reps and Dems.

Take a look at Gore. Take a look at Bush. How could a handful have been so friggin blind?

[EFerrari]

250. We've had 8 years of Bush because we let them steal it twice. n/t

[earthlover]

251. Even with their theft, they only "won" Florida with 500 votes.....

compared to nader's almost 100,000 votes.

The Reps stole votes. The nader voters gave them away.

Fact remains, the margin was 500 or so votes. Even with all the stealing.

As a poster said above...I think it was you....political actions have consequences. The political actions of Nader and his supporters had consequences. They took defeat out of the jaws of victory. Consequences we ALL have to live with.

[bigwillq]

242. Go get 'em Cindy!

:bounce:

At least someone is standing up for what is right.

[AZBlue]

243. I don't understand. She's going to replace Pelosi so Bush can be impeached?

But the time Cindy would have gotten into office, Bush would be out of office. And a Dem will be in his place, so the war will be ending (if not sooner).

So, what's the point again??