St. Pete Times...thanks for a fair primary article: "DNC chairman Howard Dean is in a tough spot."

[madfloridian]

Adam C. Smith usually comes through on the side of fairness in most cases. I appreciate this article, as our Florida Democrats have been spinning their own rule-breaking to make it look like Howard Dean is the one in the wrong.

The reporter presents both sides:

Don't expect to meet the candidates in Florida

It's pretty long, so a few snips...

There's a reason Democratic Party leaders trying to craft a more ethnically, racially and geographically diverse nominating process allowed only small states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina - to schedule caucuses or primaries before Feb. 5.

Those states are manageable for candidates without massive campaign accounts to mix it up with voters. Even celebrity politicians like Rudy Giuliani, Clinton and Obama can't get away in those states without occasionally taking unscripted questions from voters or reporters. Florida is more of a state for quick tarmac rallies and costly TV ads..

....."Democratic National Committee rules punish states like Florida that violate the DNC schedule. Under the penalties likely to go into effect in late August, any candidate who campaigns in Florida won't win any Florida delegates. Florida Democrats at one point were seriously considering making the Jan. 29 election nonbinding and instead holding caucuses later on.

I am glad he recognizes that Dean's ability to change the rules is very limited. The rules were made by a committee appointed by Terry McAuliffe, and voted upon by the 447 DNC members. They will meet in August, but no assurance things will change.

DNC chairman Howard Dean is in a tough spot. Unless he ignores the national party's clear rules, there appears to be no leeway for him to waive penalties against Florida. Even if he could make an exception for Florida, he risks provoking Michigan - which has long chafed at giving Iowa and New Hampshire such influence on the nomination - to join Florida in jumping earlier.

The rules are different here.

"Florida—The Rules Are Different Here” was a state promotional slogan that began in 1986. It is still used derisively, whenever someone wants to break the rules.

Florida Democrats helped push this through, and they have made sure the press should blame Howard Dean for trying to "disenfranchise" Florida. Even two of my favorites, Wasserman Schultz and Robert Wexler have gone that "warning to Dean" route.

I am glad Adam C. Smith put some common sense on it, even though he does want Florida to be viable.

[madfloridian]

1. Chris Dodd in a taped interview tomorrow here is telling Dean to "fix" things.

That's the problem, he really can't if he follows the rules.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/07/dodd-to-dean-fi.html

"Dodd to Dean: Fix the primary confusion
Count Democratic presidential candidate Chris Dodd among those eager for DNC chairman Howard Dean to resolve the uncertainty with Florida's primary: "They've got to sort this out. Having been the general chairman of this party back in '95-'96, it's a tough job, but the idea that you can't be down here campagning? I'm going to be down here campaigning," he said in a taped "Political Connections" interview that airs Sunday on Bay News 9."

The party here and the candidates should wait until the full DNC meets and let them handle it. They should not use the press to make it sound like it is Dean's fault. It simply is not.

Fair is fair.

[madfloridian]

4. The interview with Dodd will be repeated at 6:30 PM

I missed it today earlier. Just a FYI for any in the area who are interested.

[Cha]

6. Kick for Dean to get

it straightened out in his own inimitable way.

[madfloridian]

8. Agreed.

Florida needs to get itself straightened out. :hi:

[jsamuel]

2. Florida moved up its primary in defiance of the rules, and then complains that it is getting penaliz

ed for breaking them?

I am really tired of the lack of accountability in our government. All this and the voters in Florida are going to lose because the Florida politicians are being defiant.

[madfloridian]

3. If the DNC doesn't follow the rules for Florida, utter bedlam will occur.

I was glad to see this article tonight. It was time someone presented both sides.

[JNelson6563]

5. On the Michigan part

Even if he could make an exception for Florida, he risks provoking Michigan - which has long chafed at giving Iowa and New Hampshire such influence on the nomination - to join Florida in jumping earlier.


Indeed! That was well put! Our chair, Mark Brewer, is not one to back down. He told us at our last State Central meeting that if anyone else breaks the rules/schedule it's on. Michigan will also do so. He is certain no candidate will risk alienating MI and all would be against refusing admittance to half of our delegates at the national convention. Brewer is very smart and knows what he's doing. He's the chair of the State Dem chairs too. I think we are very lucky to have him.

Julie

[madfloridian]

7. And no one could blame him...

I think other states would follow very quickly.

I have been angry since Karen Thurman used the word "disenfranchise" and saying Dean was doing that to Florida. Then Nelson echoes it, and others. Republican talking points against their own chairman.

They actually hurt our state by doing this, I think.

[Cha]

9. I read on DU yesterday

that Karen Thurman was working for a republicon lobbyist in Florida?

It's no wonder she has repuke talking points..her and all the other lazy, pass the bucks.

[madfloridian]

22. Yes...not much being said on the blogs or such.

Except a couple are saying we should not complain that everyone does it. The article tells more about Cardenas's role is ousting Thurman from her congressional post. But it sounds like any of us who say too much will be vilified. So.....

http://www.miamiherald.com:80/418/story/163133.html

[flyarm]

28. here are articles about FDP chair Thurman and her rethug ties!!

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/06/State/Party_chief_s_dual_ro.shtml

Party chief's dual role draws fire
Florida's Democratic leader moonlights as a lobbyist for a firm with Republican ties.
By STEVE BOUSQUET
Published July 6, 2007

TALLAHASSEE – Florida Democratic Party chairwoman Karen Thurman makes $100,000 a year to build a political machine to compete with Republicans, and earns extra income working for a law firm headed by one of the state's leading Republicans, Al Cardenas.

As a former Democrat in Congress, Thurman is paid by the Tew Cardenas firm to build bridges with her former colleagues who now run Capitol Hill, on behalf of Miami-Dade County.

Cardenas was state GOP chairman during the tenure of Gov. Jeb Bush, a time in which Thurman lost her redrawn House seat to Republican Ginny Brown-Waite.

Some party activists who learned of the arrangement for the first time this week from a news article said Thurman should have disclosed it previously, and asked if Thurman has other moonlighting arrangements they don't know about.

"A hundred thousand dollars a year is pretty nice. We're still the Democratic Party. We're struggling," said Janee Murphy, a Democratic National Committee member from Tampa.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Posted on Wed, Jul. 04, 2007
http://www.miamiherald.com/569/v-print/story/159917.html#

The odd couple: Democrat is lobbying for Republican

BY BETH REINHARD
For strange bedfellows in Washington, consider the partnership between two of Florida's best-known partisans: Democrat Karen Thurman and Republican Al Cárdenas.
Thurman, chairwoman of the Florida Democratic Party, gets $3,500 a month from Cárdenas, former chairman of the Florida Republican Party, to help him lobby the new Democratic leadership in Congress on behalf of Miami-Dade County.

Party bylaws do not preclude Thurman from pursuing income outside her $100,000 annual salary. But some current and former leaders were surprised that the party chief charged with turning the state from red to blue in the next presidential election was on the payroll of a top advisor to Republican contender Mitt Romney.

''It, unfortunately, puts her in a position where questions could be raised or asked,'' said Bob Poe, whose 2000-02 stint as Democratic Party chairman overlapped with Cárdenas' tenure as GOP chief. ``There's nothing wrong other than appearance, but appearance is very important in politics.''

Tallahassee lawyer Allan Katz, a member of the Democratic Party's Executive Committee, said of Thurman's lobbying: ``It does a raise a question or two, but I'm not sure to what level . . . It's the kind of thing you would expect to know, and I'm surprised.''

`ALL MY TIME'



Thurman said her lobbying with Cárdenas doesn't affect her party post.

''He has his views, and I have mine,'' she said. ``I've known him a long time. He's a nice guy.'' (right!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Thurman also represents eAppeals, an online company that helps patients recover health insurance claims. She earned $100,000 from eAppeals in 2005, according to the most recent records from the Center for Responsive Politics.





i can say this infuriates me..as an elected delegate in 2004 for my county of Florida..i am outraged!! as are other delegates i served with!!
this same lady screwed our real wonderfultried and true democratic candidates in 2006 election cycle by only helping DLC candidates!!

i am mad as hell!!

fly

[madfloridian]

33. The Florida Dem bloggers are saying we should not care...business as usual.

that it is business as usual. She has her own lobbying company Karen Thurman LLC which works with Tew Cardenas to lobby Homeland Security for more funding for ports etc.

I think it raises a red flag on several fronts.

Business as usual. Isn't that why we are stuck in Iraq? Isn't that why we have the bankruptcy bill? Isn't that why we have a right wing supreme court now?

[flyarm]

36. THAT IS NOT HOW MANY OF US FEEL ON THE OTHER COAST FROM YOU!!

PEOPLE ARE PISSED..AND MANY ( opps caps) of us are writing letter to deans people to get her recalled..

i will pm you a DC email address..

please write also!!

another delegate and i are working on it..don't want to say more i will pm you..

this is not acceptable..

but remember karen is tied directly to DLC,,she doesn't give a shit about grassroots or on the ground hard working dems..they have people conned!!

anyone with an ounce of sense knows ..this is wrong..dead wrong!!

i will pm you in a bit...

fly

[PassingFair]

20. I agree with you about Brewer, Julie.

I like him. He speaks candidly and he IS smart!

[cobalt1999]

10. I've got mixed feelings on this one

IMHO, the concept of a handful of smaller states first is flawed. It doesn't do what it is supposed to do and hasn't proved to be a good strategy in the past couple of elections. Furthermore, I think that having a couple of larger states like Florida and Michigan early demonstrates a person's ability & strategy to campaign nationwide. Even more, I feel if Florida had been early in the last two presidential elections, it would have built more enthusiasm for voting here (potentially swaying both elections).

On the other hand, while I strongly feel Florida should be early, they did it in a way that puts Dean into a corner. That isn't fair either.

If I was Dean, I'd say I'm not enforcing the rule and let Michigan and Florida go early. He can't alienate the state he needs in 2008.

edit for typo

[madfloridian]

11. So he should break the party rules?

That is the point I am making, and that Adam Smith is making. It is really not his choice to make.

We either have a national party or we don't.

I think my state is just wrong on this. We will have to disagree.

[cobalt1999]

12. I'm actually not disagreeing with you.

I said they did this in an improper manner and, yes, my state is WRONG on this. You are preaching to the choir on that point.

The milk has been spilled, so I don't see how complaining about it anymore helps at this stage, we can't undo it (as far as I know).

Looking forward, either Florida doesn't count at all and we risk alienating a bunch of people, or we do count and violate the national rule.

So, where do you think we go from here? IMHO, I think we should ignore a bad rule.

[madfloridian]

13. The state is ignoring the rule.

That is my problem with them. They are doing it in a way to make the chairman look bad for following party rules. So basically we agree on that part.

They are doing it that way on purpose. There is nothing I can do now. I can have all the opinions I want, and you know what they say about opinions.

But I can speak out when someone gets it right. Florida has gone a long way in the last year to discourage activists. I thought change was on the horizon, but the attitudes are basically the same.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/904

[FogerRox]

14. Time for FLorida DFAers to run for county commitee

[madfloridian]

19. Many did, some won.

Some are still there, some retreated to fight another day when they won't get so battered and bruised.

Some who tried to run for chair were manipulated out of the race before they even got started.

[FogerRox]

23. In Nj4D we are putting together a county commitee training project

I might be running for town commitee, even county in '08.

[madfloridian]

24. NJ for Democracy is amazing.

I keep up with some of the more active groups at DFA. Many in Florida are going strong.

Good for you, and good luck.

:hi:

[flyarm]

29. they did and the dlc stepped in and screwed the candidates!!

those candidates got nothing from the FDP!!

except in one case in my county..the FDP and DLC ran a candidate against a wonderful democrat..the DLC candidate.. changed parties 6 weeks before the primary and the FDP &DLC ran this guy against the dem!!

welcome to Fla politics and the DLC!!

fly

[madfloridian]

35. You mean.....this guy?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/904

[cobalt1999]

15. Okay, we agree our state is wrong, now pretend you are Dean...

What do you do?

Enforce the rule and alienate a state you need in 2008, or ignore the rule and have larger states move up?

[madfloridian]

18. That's what I am saying....it is not his choice.

The choice has to be made by the whole DNC...including I believe the 447 who voted for the rules.

They are supposed to have a full meeting near the end of August, already scheduled, I think.

[flyarm]

30. look this was a republican ploy ..the rethugs wanted this because they knew it would screw dean

and the dem party in Fla!!

this was a rethuglican ploy@!

the FDP is so infiltrated in fla is stinks to high heaven!!

fly

[w4rma]

31. If Florida gets to ignore the rules it won't stop with just Florida and Michigan.

There will be many many other states that will move themselves to the front of the line ahead of those two.

[madfloridian]

37. Exactly....our Republican leaning political editor today...

took the opportunity to actually bash Dean over this. He presented it all unfairly, and put the whole thing on him. Then he had the nerve to say Martinez wasn't going to penalize as much...nicer guy.

It was ugly..I won't post it.

I am angry.

[SoCalDem]

16. If elections are under the purview of the STATES, they should be able to hold primaries

when they WANT to..

[FogerRox]

17. The office is federal

Knr, good article thanks.

[pstans]

21. Exactly right about Iowa, New Hampshire, and S. Carolina

when he wrote...

These states are manageable for candidates without massive campaign accounts to mix it up with voters. Even celebrity politicians like Rudy Giuliani, Clinton and Obama can't get away in those states without occasionally taking unscripted questions from voters or reporters. Florida is more of a state for quick tarmac rallies and costly TV ads.

The answer it not to be moving the big states earlier in the process. This only makes these early states more important in the nominating process. The answer is to spread out the nominating process. Have Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina then have a month off and hit the bigger states. We need to spread out the nominating process so our candidates are still campaigning in April and May. The way it is now, we will have a nominee before Valentine's Day and then 6 months until the convention where the nominee can be picked apart by the media and have mud thrown at them by the Republicans.

[madfloridian]

25. His last paragraph says a lot.

"Thanks to our new primary date, don't be surprised to turn on your local news and see presidential candidates hawking their candidacy to Florida 17 months before the general election. Nor should you be surprised to see electoral mayhem and confusion break out among states jockeying for position in the nominating calendar, and Florida yet again in the middle of it."

Yep, Florida in the middle again.

[McCamy Taylor]

26. Florida needs to clean up its rigged elections THEN they can go first.

IMO an early primary--Republican or Democratic--in Florida is just an attempt by the Bush cabal and the mainstream media and Diebold to hack both Republican and Democratic primaries, catapulting Karl Rove's picks for the general elections into first place, making them unstoppable juggernauts.

If Florida can run a clean election in 2008, then maybe they can run an early primary in 2112. But I am not holding my breath. That state has been corrupt for a long, long time.

[madfloridian]

27. I agree. This is the guy in charge of elections.

He answers only to Crist.

http://oss.dos.state.fl.us/browning-bio.cfm

"During his tenure as Supervisor of Elections, Secretary Browning was involved in Florida’s elections community through service as the President of the Florida State Association of Supervisors of Elections; as a member of Governor Jeb Bush’s Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology; and as a member of the State Planning Committee for the Help America Vote Act."

The pattern is they have been secretive....Harris, Cobbs, etc.

[retread]

32. How many Democrats actually voted for this Repug bill? n/t

[madfloridian]

34. I understand the vote was 100% for it.

And a Democrat Jeremy Ring introduced the bill.