OK, I'm listening to Ring of Fire, and Terry McAuliffe is saying there are too many Democrats....

[marmar]

who don't want to fight.....:wtf:


What's that old adage about pots and kettles?:think:

[fooj]

1. "Stake out your position and fight for it"

You mean like the "centrists" do?

[omega minimo]

4. "You have to take on the thuggery of the Bush administration. That's what the American people want."

[blm]

21. The THUGGERY was in vote suppression, purged voters rolls and rigged voting machines

and THAT was McAuliffe's job to secure the election process for the entire Dem party, its voters and every candidate.

The OFFICE of VOTER INTEGRITY was put in place because the election fraud was never again supposed to effect another election.

Terry McAuliffe did NOTHING. The problems of 2000 worsened for the 2002 cycle and WORSENED EVEN MORE for the 2004 election.

WTF was McAuliffe doing for 4 yrs? Practicing his revisionism techniques to pretend all blame falls on Gore and Kerry?

[omega minimo]

23. good points. the fact that electoral conditions have still not improved is insane.

As is the public's acceptance of 2 stolen elections.

I didn't know "THAT was McAuliffe's job to secure the election process for the entire Dem party, its voters and every candidate." Who else is responsible for that?

[blm]

24. DNC is in charge of the NATIONAL party and its INFRASTRUCTURE.

They put together the national strategy for all campaigns. That infrastructure was collapsed in many states that the 'targeted state strategy' employed by the DNC under McAuliffe's stewardship, because they were deemed unwinnable and unNEEDED. Unfortunately, many red and purple states DID become competitive especially after Kerry's decisive debate victories, but with no strong infrastructure in place, there was no way to assure the votes in those states were secured and counted. There is NO WAY Bush gained 11 million voters in 2004 - no way. No president EVER gained that many.

[omega minimo]

2. "Too many want to take the High Road. You can take the High Road but you have to Tell The Story..."

Mike P.

Very good discussion. McAuliffe is talking about how he was hamstrung in the campaign, told not to use the "AWOL" story.

"What A Party" is his new book.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. I doubt that.

I really do. I was working for a campaign(congressional level) back then, and the word came down that Kerry had gotten square in McAuliffe's grill, literally nose to nose, over the Swift Boat thing. Told TerryMac that if the DNC did not spend some of the money it was sitting on, to combat it, that Kerry, as nominee and titular head of the party, would show him the door posthaste. Word was that Kerry was extremely agitated and very loud.

Considering where it came from, I believe the story.

[babylonsister]

14. That sure explains McAuliffe's and the DNC 's animosity

towards Kerry.
We're all under one big umbrella my hind quarters!

[omega minimo]

17. fwiw, McA was telling the opposite version

saying that he was directly ordered not to use the AWOL story to fight back against the Swiftboaters, saying he was pissed at how much money was left after the campaign........


RFK Jr., Mike Papp and he were all agreeing that the Democrats need to speak up and fight back when necessary, not "roll over and play dead."

[blm]

20. McAuliffe was supposed to fight throughout Aug knowing Kerry couldn't spend his money till Sept

to stay par with Bush. The DNC was not under any of the same restrictions Kerry was.

[kerrygoddess]

18. Would not doubt it in the least

The Dem Party did not have his back then and they still don't.

[peacetalksforall]

3. So he's calling himself a fighter? The DLC fights? I must have

missed the fight.

[blm]

22. Fought to side more closely to Bush on terror and Iraq than they would with Kerry in 2003-4.

That was helpful.

[Jack Rabbit]

5. I repeat

Hillary Clinton may be the frontrunner now, but I have full faith in Terry McAuliffe to fix that before the primaries start.

[marmar]

6. Teehee.

:)

[Cha]

9. Teeheehe

:)

[lies and propaganda]

7. Ill fight Terry McAuliffe.

How bout that?

[Fovea]

8. How do you say things like this

with a straight face when you are McAuliffe?

Also, should we consider the current fiasco, with the dregs of former Repug admins like Cheney and others to be in any way instructive?
While there are some Clinton staff I wouldnt mind seeing back, these folks aren't them. Either the DLC comes to a new platform and a new agenda, or they drift further into irrelevancy, IMO.

What would suggest to anyone paying attention to the relative successes of the DLC proxy Rahm as compared to the DNC 50 state strategy of the DNC under Dean?

I am at a loss to figure it out.

[omega minimo]

10. He's saying he did what he was ordered to do. The point of the discussion

(did anyone actually hear it) was that Democrats HAVE GOT TO tell the truth about the thuggery and crimes of Repugs-- can't be unwilling to bring up the TRUTH.

They said that if Hillary is the nominee, she has GOT to being up the truth about this administration, this war-- and if she doesn't "she will lose."

[Fovea]

12. I hope that Hillary can do that.

I see the problem like this.

If the Dems tell the truth about the Pugs, they will step on the shoes of corporate contributors.

Can Hillary run a Howard Dean style financed campaign, and make her message about how fundamentally corrupt and corrupting the business of government has become?
She probably cannot win if she runs noticably to the right of Obama or Edwards. The misnamed independent voter is not standing as far to the right as they used to be. The left is bigger than it used to be.

Her perspective as a machine insider could be important, she has seen how it works for and how it works against politicians who try to tell the truth like Kucinich or Hackett. If she took the candidacy would she empower those who represent the vital center left of the party? If she did, and she had Kooch, Obama, Clark, and Edwards on her side campaigning and helping shape the platform, then the first woman president of the United States will be in a position to do great things for all Americans.

The Democratic party of the 90's is not equipped to address the needs of 21st century Democrats, IMO. As working class Americans, our means and possiblities have diminished as the investor class has swollen like a tick on our daily needs. By taking our jobs to China, and selling us the things China makes via near slave labor with no environmental guards, the investor class has crippled middle class America. Down that road is far worse to come. You can tell me that the original intent was to have labor and environmental standards offset the cheapness of labor. But that never happened in the frantic stripping of our industrial base.

We mostly make weapons now.

Everyone knows we are in quicksand. Is Hillary ready to throw Americans a rope? I would really enjoy seeing her be the Hillary of 92. We need that Hillary badly.

What I guess I would have to say to her is YES! Go tell the truth. Beat these fascists like a tin drum and crumple them like a coke can. But first, go listen to the unofficial DU anthem, MOSH, by Mr. Mathers. Now imagine the Americans you now lead are all chanting it quietly under their breath. That song is America post 911. Speak accordingly.

[omega minimo]

13. There's another example she could look at

"Her perspective as a machine insider could be important, she has seen how it works for and how it works against politicians who try to tell the truth like Kucinich or Hackett."

All the candidates need to look at Russ Feingold, who is showing the character and courage of a true representative of the American people, when no one else will, on vital issues for years now............. He says he's not running, but if he did, guaranteed a groundswell will lift him.

"If the Dems tell the truth about the Pugs, they will step on the shoes of corporate contributors."

"As working class Americans, our means and possiblities have diminished as the investor class has swollen like a tick on our daily needs. By taking our jobs to China, and selling us the things China makes via near slave labor with no environmental guards, the investor class has crippled middle class America. Down that road is far worse to come. You can tell me that the original intent was to have labor and environmental standards offset the cheapness of labor. But that never happened in the frantic stripping of our industrial base. We mostly make weapons now."

I would never tell you that about the "original intent" of NAFTA/GATT because they were obvious shell games from the start-- and predictably would lead to where we are now. Sold out and screwed.

"Everyone knows we are in quicksand. Is Hillary ready to throw Americans a rope? I would really enjoy seeing her be the Hillary of 92. We need that Hillary badly."

The President Clinton of 92 became-- as Malloy says-- the "best Republican president we've ever had" and reinforced the establishment of corporatist rule. How far off that continuing agenda would a President Hillary Clinton be?

"The misnamed independent voter is not standing as far to the right as they used to be. The left is bigger than it used to be."

What the (real) Democrats have to recognize if they want to win is that the independent/bigger left/working class (what Democrats used to represent before corporations made them a better deal) has morphed into what Thom Harmann calls the "Radical Middle." We are all in the same sinking boat. The fact of mercenary corporate rule is an open secret-- and it is unsustainable. Will Americans let themselves be led off the clliff by purty pitchers and hollow soundbites?

This Democratic campaign will be about the Corporatist vs. the Populist. That's why they floated the shitty story about Edwards mansion and jumped on the Biden quote.

Democrats may not have figured that out, but Republicons have.

[Fovea]

15. "This Democratic campaign will be about the Corporatist vs. the Populist."

Well put. If this turns out to be the overarching frame of the 08 contest, then Hillary is not the best situated candidate in the field.

At this point in the race, even a well known candiate has more risk than advantage in exposure. This timing post 06 election running into 08 was probably inevitable considering the state of the nation, but it will be harder on high profile candidates, IMO.

I need to get Thom Hartman's latest book, obviously.

[omega minimo]

16. I borrowed Hartmann's title for the post:

"Screwed"!



"This timing post 06 election running into 08 was probably inevitable considering the state of the nation, but it will be harder on high profile candidates, IMO."


Hmmmm. Given "the state of the nation,"this early campaigning may make it harder on the nation. The investigations, hearings, Libby trial continue... yet competing candidates are not focused as Congressional Democrats to end this misrule. Now.

The already-running candidates support the insane illusion that we have time to waste and pretend to count on "Next time" -- rather than face the immediate deadly crises and solve them as a Democratic body. Their selfish pretense and state of denial are a REAL disservice to the voters and the nation.

And history.

Conyers,' Waxman, Feingold...................... thank god for them.

How insane is it that this administration has not been impeached yet?

[Fovea]

19. Dick and George have actually helped with the current crisis

by not being able to back away from unilateralism and unitary executive.
They all have worked to make the presidency into the decidercy. Now, the fact that they
have not just pushed, but spindled, folded, and outright mutiliated the constitution makes them unable to let due process win out.
The sequelae of that cosmic scale of true believerdom is that we are on a train pointed to oblivion.
We don't get to steer it, we can only stop it or let it run off the end of the bridge.
The most important consideration is that we are all on the train.

But perhaps the only good thing in our current crisis is that Dick and George have
backed Nancy into a wall by punking her attempts at bipartisanism. She either has to drop impeachment on the table with a deafening
crash, or she has to rail impotently against the neocons. We now need all the bipartisanism that is consistent with a good louisville slugger mugging.

They keep pushing, and we keep backing down. I think we are at the point
where we have to simply smack the bastards athwart the nadgers with the bat and have it done with.