Dick Cheney vs. Nancy Pelosi. Dick Cheney just won.

[BuyingThyme]

The more impeachable offenses the Bushes commit, the more the American people will turn against Pelosi and Company.

What she's done to our Party is truly amazing. I hope you all will appreciate it someday.

[babylonsister]

1. UNLESS! Pelosi and Co. do something about it. I know... nt

[dogday]

28. I really think she was too quick to say

we are taking it off the table... Did she really think that we would forget about it once she made the statement? So it's I'm sorry folks, I don't want you to get your hopes up, but we are not going to try to hold this administration accountable for the over, oh I don't know, hundred of laws that they have broken in the name of our country...

Right there, Congress lost the American people... That very moment is where I pinpoint the attitude that is reflected at Congress right now....

We expect a battle even if it is one we cannot win, we expect to see the change we voted for.. That is only fair... At least we know that they agree with us... This way not so much...

[redqueen]

2. Didn't start with her... and she sure ain't the only one. n/t

[BuyingThyme]

3. What Pelosi and Reid have done is truly extraordinary.

It took Bush six years to bring the Executive to the the basement. It took Pelosi and Reid a few months to bring Congress to the same place. And Bush never even had a mandate.

The American people would rather vote for people who decide to do the wrong thing than for people who decide to do nothing at all. If we don't find a way to get Pelosi and Reid out of the way, we're fucked.

[redqueen]

7. What now?

Sorry, but I think the dissatisfaction isn't separate. I think one sort of goes along with the other. In other words if not for bu$hco's horrifying nightmare of a presidency... I doubt people would be so quick to become so angry at congress.

And I disagree with you about people preferring criminals to cowards.

[BuyingThyme]

13. No way. I'll give you all weekend to come up with a scenario

that would have done more damage to the Democratic Party. First they abandon their Iraq mandate; then they spend an incredible amount of time trying to force through the most unpopular legislation in the history of Congress ("comprehensive" immigration reform).

These are truly amazing people. Not just inept, or stupid, but downright dangerous.

I think you're wrong about the criminals thing, too. Particularly when the criminals are using "terrorism" as their trump card.

[Zandor]

22. What Iraq mandate?

If you think the Dems taking over congress was a mandate for immediate withdrawl or discontinuing funds, you're kidding yourself.

The general view, as I see it, is the war was oversold and poorly managed by Bush, and a change in course was needed, with a quicker path to the final exit. That's what the Democrats are doing.

[bvar22]

24. Don't forget the "secret" Free Trade deal...

...written by corporate lobbyists and negotiated by Pelosi and Rangel directly with bush* WITHOUT input from the Democratic Caucus OR LABOR represenatives.

I am madder about this than the complete capitulation on the Iraq War.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[txaslftist]

32. Don't forget stripping the "don't attack Iran without our OK" provision

from the Defense bill.

Greenlighting our attack on Iran may go down as Pelosi's ultimate capitulation and abandonment of the antiwar folks.

[txaslftist]

33. Double dupe

[txaslftist]

34. Dupe

[movonne]

4. Well I don't know if it is all Pelosi's fault...since they got hoyer in, instead

of murtha she has had to fight the DLC group..they did not want an anti-war person in..this is the right wing of the party and they have all the money and influence...they also wanted lieberman in the senate...they would probably like to get rid of her...

[BuyingThyme]

5. Well as long as they spend more time on the issues the people care about.

Like staying in Iraq and providing amnesty for undocumented immigrants.

Nice work!

[Individualist]

9. She's going along with DLC, not fighting them.

[Hubert Flottz]

6. Nancy is better...

Than...

[opihimoimoi]

11. Nancy will win the Politician of the Year Award...She and Reid coulda done better

but what they have accomplished so far is truly amazing...

They will be just fine for now and when its time, others will follow their footsteps and get America on track once more.

Bush and his GOP have truly fucked America...and now they wanna cleanup their act with denigration of the Democrats...This is what they do...

This is ALL THEY DO....Trouble making. divisive, and underminers...classic sign of Self Interest and self centeredness...

The GOP is the BIG PICTURE.....They were the ones who enabled Bush...

[BuyingThyme]

14. It depends on what your criteria are.

If we're talking about the will of the people, Hastert wins hands down.

[theoldman]

8. The biggest mistake that Pelosi and Reid have made is

not getting enough Republicans on their side. When the Republicans had the majority they managed to get some Democrats to vote with them. Without a true majority the Democrats cannot make any progress. The Republicans have been able to stop all important items by closing ranks and voting against the Democrats. I do not see any change until 2008 and only if the Democrats have a majority.

[BuyingThyme]

15. What the hell is "their side"?

[PassingFair]

17. I'm sure they BOUGHT those democrats.

Got any extra dough?

[VP505]

29. I think your right

we should cultivate more RePukes. I also think we will ever see a real functioning Dem Majority, that is as long as we have the LieBermans and Nelsons and the other Dino's that vote with the RePukes more times than not.

[partylessinOhio]

10. Having watched Pelosi for about seven months now, I cannot see how

she ever got enough votes to be squeaker. Just mystifying. Was this the best the Dems could do? If it is we are screwed.

[BuyingThyme]

16. Not seven months; over four years.

And she has never shown any inclination to lead. Not for a second.

How does she feel about Gonzales? Libby? Fried chicken?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Oh God You've Got To Be Kidding.

:eyes:

[BuyingThyme]

18. Just more facts. No matter how hard you cheer,

you can't change the game.

[onenote]

35. and no matter how much you complain you can't change the facts

and the facts are that the "control" that the Democrats won in November is a fragile coalition representing a range of views that ranges from a red-state blue dogger like Heath Shuler to a true-blue progressive like Barbara Lee.

The only real "control" that Democrats really got was control over committees (ie the right to name the chairman and to have a majority on each committee). And while Committee chairs and the Speaker control the agenda of the House, they don't really control the members of the Democratic caucus. Thus, most committee chairs will not try to push for something unless they know that they have the votes to get it through. Thus, while I have no doubt that Conyers and Pelosi would both support impeachment, neither is going to use the "control" that they have to push the issue as long as they doubt that they will have the necessary support from within the Democratic caucus. In the case of impeachment, the Democratic leadership also appears unwilling to pursue the matter unless there is at least a modicum of repub support. Presumably this is because they believe that a purely partisan impeachment effort will not enjoy sufficient support.

Those are the facts. I wish every Democrat was a Conyers or a Frank or a Waxman. And maybe we can get to the point where there are enough progressive democrats that we don't need the votes of blue dog democrats, but we're no where near that point now and, quite frankly, letting a repub defeat a Heath Shuler in 2008 moves us farther away from that point, not closer.

[BuyingThyme]

37. You are a talking-point zombie.

Nobody ever gets 67% "control." Stop dumbing down the conversation by repeating complete nonsense.

[onenote]

38. and you are a head in the sand fantasy seeker

Its not about getting 67 percent. We don't even have 50 percent when it comes to progressives. That's the fact, jack.

So howl at the moon and pound your fists. It doesn't change Heath Shuler. It doesn't change Ben Nelson.

Spew the talking points about how ineffective the Democrats are so that the public perception is that the problem isn't with the lack of progressives its with the Democrats period. That'll help a lot.

[Canuckistanian]

19. She'd better speak up fast

This administration is unraveling fast.

If SOMEONE doesn't speak up, ALL the players will be blamed.

Now, and for history.

[Vidar]

20. Nancy leads from the rear, in full retreat.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. What? Our Team Democrat is Doing Great!.

Go Team! Rah Rah Rah!

[ananda]

23. Cheney McSneer is a piece of work.

He and Bush are bullies and abusive, but they
are buttressed by court and justice sycophants
and a whorish media. The media propaganda
and societal conditioning is so pervasive that
I expect most people are unconscious to it in
themselves.. though aware of it in other people
or systems.

Reid and Pelosi are victims and colluders in
this disfunctional complex of system and behavior.

However, everyone is both innocent and guilty of
what's going on.

Bullies and abusers have to be stood up to and
stopped. In a way, that's what they want no matter
how much they might deny it.

Sue

[badgerpup]

25. ...and 8 months ago, Nancy Pelosi was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

How the mighty have fallen...

[dkofos]

26. That was back when everyone thought she would be our savior.

Her actions have proved differently.

[L. Coyote]

27. Why do you spend so much effort throwing stones at Dems? Are you a Democrat?

You say "our Party" as though you are a registered Dem. Are you a Democrat?

[BuyingThyme]

30. Yes, I am a Democrat.

To me, that means I support Democratic values and democratic values.

To you, it means you support whatever a few people tell you to support.

What once made our country different from all others is that the power was theoretically held by the people. That's the part you never learned. That's the part you're incapable of understanding.

You support the kind of government they have in places like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

You support elected Democrats. I lead them.

I'm a true Democrat. You are something else entirely.

[Disturbed]

36. Pelosi needs to sign on to the Kucincih Impeachment of Darth.

She can still have an effect. If she demurrers then she is what I have been saying way before she got her present job. She is weak. She can prove that this assessment is wrong by standing up to this Criminal VP.

[txaslftist]

31. Why do you assume they're on different teams?

Is it just the color of the jerseys?