I won't be voting for this warmonger either....

[Postman]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/02/america/NA-GEN-US-Clinton-Iran.php

[roody]

1. Nor will I.

[latebloomer]

2. No surprise there!

While repudiating her vote on Iraq, she is ready to cheerlead the next war.

Nauseating.

:puke:

[Tellurian]

226. Huh? She's pushing Bush into diplomatic relations.

Amazing, no one can see that?

She being passive/aggressive towards the Bush Administration.
We all know Bush just want to bomb the World, when diplomacy is the way to go.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[woodsprite]

9. EEeeeeeewwwwww!!!! n/t

[Martin Eden]

162. Will Big Dog be jealous?

My guess is the tongue she gave him was more often in the form of a lashing than a lick.

[DainBramaged]

5. So if it came down to a couple of hundred votes like 2000

Your ego trumps voting in a Democratic president?:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


How did Nader work out for you?

[ima_sinnic]

24. that's a "democrat"?

--I will write in Al Gore or Wesley Clark or even Howdy Doody if that PNAC DLC Trojan Horse is forced on us. I mean, how to begin to choose between endless war and --- endless war?

[DainBramaged]

33. Go for it, we'll have another Rethug because your ego trumps the greater good

Nothing amazes me here any longer. You pseudo-Dem's would rather have another 4 years of Rethuglican rule than vote for a woman. THAT is what it is all about. You can explain yourselves forever, but the fact remains you'd all rather torpedo the election than bruise your precious egos.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. The One Dimensional Thinking Is Pathetic, Ain't It?

[DainBramaged]

44. I hate these hit and run threads

The author posts a disparaging comment about a candidate and then retreats without comment. It is a typical FAUX/Rethug/Rove tactic. Then the wannabees jump on the hate train and have a field day bashing a Democratic candidate when they should be spending their energy bashing the Thugs.


This is MY house too, and I will not stand for this anti-Democratic hate spewing.

[Alamom]

45. OP, disabled profile....n/t

[ima_sinnic]

47. OMC, for once we are in agreement

:hi:

on edit: oh, I guess you meant what you perceive to be MY "one-dimensional thinking"

the "hi" smiley is hereby retracted.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. See What Happens When You Think One Dimensionally? It Ends Up Screwing Up Context.

:rofl:

[ima_sinnic]

62. well MY one dimension is better than yours--so there

[ima_sinnic]

46. my "ego"? or my Constitutional right to vote for whomever I want?

and I notice your "ego" ain't exactly lacking on this board. Who gave you the right to harangue the voters?

there are so many ad hominems and red herrings in your post I don't know where to begin.

Yeah, right, I'd rather have the ass-carbuncles "than vote for a woman" :eyes: -- right, the fact that SHE'S A WOMAN -- however, I AM a woman myself and I vote on merit, not on gender. I haven't seen anything meritorious in YOUR candidate and will vote for mine, thank you, whether that person is male, female, red, green, Martian, or otherwise. If the person is PRINCIPLED and a LEADER (neither of which applies to Pillory), then that person has at least a CHANCE of getting my vote.

"torpedo the election" ROFL --I have The Power to TORPEDO THE ELECTION!!! and I didn't even know it!! bombs away!!!

[DainBramaged]

49. Ass-carbuncles, that's a good one, how do they feel?

I haven't endorsed ANY candidate except the last one the one who gains the nod at our convention. And no matter who it is, I will vote for that candidate, I don't give a flying feck through a flaming rolling donut what they promise or don't promise during the campaign, as long as a DEMOCRAT gains the White House in 2008.

So go ahead, negate your vote and let 2000 repeat itself like Groundhog Day for the rest of our lives.

Oh, and how did Nader work out for you in 2000? I'm sure the 3+ million who thought he was principled wish they'd voted for Gore.

Or do they?

[ima_sinnic]

52. must do as told--must not question--must do as told--must not question

--I guess some people just don't like having to think for themselves ...

[Postman]

64. I voted for Nader in 2000.

Look what we had going into the 2000 election. DLC (Corporate), Republican-lite. When it came to foreign policy, they were given a pass by the "left" regarding the UN Sanctions Regime on Iraq that the UN said was responsible for half a million Iraqi deaths.

What are you complaining about? Gore actually WON the election in 2000 but FAILED to carry through with the contesting of the election in Florida resulting in this fascist taking charge.

I'll vote for an anti-war Republican any day over someone like Hillary Clinton.

Now if someone like John McCain gets the nomination, I might think twice. But what will we be left with?

A warmonger versus a warmonger. No thanks. If the Dems are firmly in control of the Congress that'l act as a check.

[Hardrada]

174. Plus LIEberman in that 2000 DLC Bonus Package.

I thought he sucked the first time I heard him!

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

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[DainBramaged]

147. Stop, go elsewhere and hate Hillary, not here, SHE IS A DEMOCRAT

For you to even try that comparison is pure ideological hate.

[cool user name]

151. Another straw man ...

And you, sir, can't tell me where to go.

[DainBramaged]

155. But I can ignore you, so goodbye

I intend to fill up my list with DEMOCRACY haters who think they control the party.

Cya

[cool user name]

160. I'm proud of you.

Democracy haters?

You're kidding.

:silly:


That's right out of the PNAC playbook. You should be embarrassed.

[RegimeChange2008]

170. Then tell her to start ACTING like a fucking Democrat!!

Because this sure as Hell isn't.

[DainBramaged]

186. Know what, you don't get it

Cya. If you are here for the sole purpose of bashing Clinton (or anyone else) you'll be on more than my ignore list fast.

[Name removed]

201. Deleted message

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[Mojorabbit]

176. So you are saying that if Al Gore

fresh from winning oscars and armed with pictures of drowning polar bears decided at the last minute to run as an independant you would vote for Hillary? Or on edit to make it better say Russ Feingold decided to run as an independant would you vote for a hawk just because they had the D after their name?

[DainBramaged]

185. (sigh) I'm just not going to explain myself to any of you any longer

You bash ANY candidate and advocate the election of a Rethug, you get reported for it. I'm not defending anyone and it is none of your business who my candidate is until we have our convention.

[Postman]

51. It's not about ego's. It's about the war. Get it?

Get out of Iraq. Period.

No war with Iran. Period.

[hfojvt]

144. it's about thinking the best way to accomplish those

is to elect another Republican President. If it had not been for Nader voters in Florida in 2000, we probably would not be in Iraq now. We would not be politicizing global warming. We would have a balanced budget. We would not have two more RW wackos on SCOTUS. We would have had a pro-active response to Katrina. Etc. etc. It's amazing what a nation and a world can buy with one of Ralph's dimes. It's like the Energizer bunny of dimes. It keeps going and going and going.

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
George W Bush, accidentally telling the truth

"I prophesy to you this evil man will plunge our Reich into the abyss and will inflict immeasurable woe on our nation. Future generations will curse you in your grave for this action." Erich Ludendorff

[adigal]

53. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with ego

It has to do with a choice between two candidates, the Republican and Hillary, who both support endless war, and both are bought and paid for by corporations.

The time to defeat Hillary is before she becomes our de facto nominee, shoved down our throats by the powers-that-be in the nation.

[DainBramaged]

57. Then you advocate the defeat of a Democrat?

[ima_sinnic]

60. is this the MO of the Hillary camp? vote for me or be guilty of

DISLOYALTY TO THE PARTY! Oh.My.God! the HORROR!

yes, comrade, ve vill do ass you say

[DainBramaged]

68. You still don't get it do you

One last comment. I haven't thrown my support to any candidate. You have NO clue who in the Democratic party I support. But the simple fact remains, even if it's Joe Biden, I WILL support OUR candidate, and would vote for that candidate no mater what my personal feelings are.

You think it's a joke? Then you must have been laughing your carbuncled ass off these last six years as Buh destroyed our economy, reputation, environment, and Constitution. And by reading between your lines, it looks like that's the way you want it to be.

Working against a Democratic candidate is the same as working for the republicans. In the end, you get what you really wanted.

Cya.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[moodforaday]

163. Outside perspective

DainBramaged: take it as you will, but looking from the outside of the US, this kind of thinking is exactly what makes the US a two-party state with no real choice in policies. This is exactly what prevents the rise of a viable third-party alternative. I just can't see the good in being so rigidly partisan.

You are basically saying that whoever the Democratic nominee is, you are going to vote for him or her. So if the party picks a nominee whose policies match Bush's word for word, waterboard for waterboard and bomb for bomb, you'll still give that person your vote.

In my 38 years, I have never joined an organization. Not one. The reason I haven't is that each and every organization soon becomes a corrupt, hollow image of itself: instead of working towards the cause it was established for, it works only towards its self-perpetuation. You can see it everywhere. This doesn't only apply to political parties, but your position stated in this thread illustrates my point exactly. Bush selling out the country to corporations, waging war, ordering torture - bad. A Democrat doing same - good. Maybe this is not what you're thinking, but it certainly is what you've been saying.

[DainBramaged]

192. Today is February 3, 2007. What does the future hold?

NO ONE HERE knows who the candidate will be. No one. I am not rigid, I am realistic. I will not work for any candidate's defeat. If there is so much hatred within our own party for a candidate such as Hillary, God help us. The Rethugs will pick our bones clean and put another troll in the White House before we even know what happens.

And speaking of a third party, it will take generations to build one. And even then, I'm sure it will be occupied by people who couldn't make up their minds what to eat for breakfast, but are sure to tell us how much they hate the eggs.:sarcasm:

[joe_b]

224. I take politicians at their word

When Hillary says she would consider an attack on Iran, I believe her. That's a very calculated position imo but I don't doubt she would follow up on it. Just like her vote for IRW was a calculated vote imo and she shows very little remorse about that. So I take her seriously when she says she is willing to attack Iran over nukes. What's worrisome is the CIA says Iran won't have nukes for 10 years, but Hillary didn't mention that as something she would consider. It was just "all options are on the table."

I agree we would not be in Iraq if Gore had been elected. But it looks like we might be in Iran if either Hillary or Edwards is elected, if they follow up on what they're telling us now.

It all come down to how important is it to you as a voter to have a President who will not wage war except in real self-defense as a last resort. Some people seem willing to make a tradeoff "Ill tolerate a war if we can get the other goodies Democrats usually get us." Other will not make that tradeoff. They won't tolerate a warmonger as President under any circumstances. I guess I fall into the latter group. That's why I'll be watching very closely during the primaries.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

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[LeftishBrit]

199. Is that a joke, or are you really that sexist?

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

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[LeftishBrit]

188. I thought the poster just meant in the primary?

'The time to defeat Hillary is before she becomes our de facto nominee'

That doesn't sound like wanting her to lose to the Republican.

Personally, I don't think Hillary Clinton is all that bad, and would be happy enough to see her as your president (though there are other people that I like better). But are there NO circumstances where a Dem could be bad enough to justify third-party voting? I'm trying to get my head round this as a non-American who lives under a different system. Suppose Tony Blair was the Dem candidate (as he was our Labour party leader)- would you still feel obliged to vote for him?

[DainBramaged]

191. You don't work to defeat ANY Democrat

Let the process work itself out. If you advocate the defeat of any Democratic candidate, you might as well vote Republican. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS.

HOW DARE ALL OF YOU. If a movement spread to defeat Edwards or even Obama, I'm sure you'd be be screaming like little babies over how they were treated.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES, YOU DON'T HAVE A SAY AS TO WHO IS CHOSEN.

Work for change, not for defeat.

[LeftishBrit]

203. I don't advocate the defeat of any Democratic candidate!!!!

And certainly not Hillary Clinton.

I can't vote in America, but if I have any chance or way of persuading anyone to vote against the Republican, I will. I am sure any likely Dem candidate will be better than any likely Republican candidate.

I was just commenting that there COULD be situations where the leader of one's chosen party is so bad that one might not vote for them. Sadly, I've been in that position for nearly 10 years now.

[Clark2008]

217. I wish a movement would spread to defeat Edwards.

He's worse than Hillary.

At least she doesn't change her mind to suit the crowd in front of her.

[scarletwoman]

227. Edwards isn't being shoved down our throats like Hillary is.

I don't think defeating an Edwards nomination will be as hard as defeating the Hillary coronation.

sw

[cool user name]

140. Nice straw man ...

I see plenty from the pro-Hillary crowd.

:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

146. I AM NOT PRO HILLARY I AM PRO-DEMOCRATIC

Jesus Christ on a sub sandwich, if you were talking about ANY of the candidates like this I would be just as furious.

IF YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATE OF THE PARTY WHEN THE CONVENTION IS OVER, SWITCH PARTIES. Don't stick around here a be a phony.

[cool user name]

152. Good for you ...

I actually support progressive issues. I'm not party driven. I'll leave that to the commissars, thankyouverymuch.

[moodforaday]

164. How about this:

How about supporting the CAUSE rather than the party? How about supporting a candidate who wants to end the war, the torture, the deaths? What good is a Democrat president going to be, if the wars continue?

[ikojo]

183. Marekjed you are right on...the reason the

Dems have moved to the right is because they rightly figure that those more progressive people have no other party for which to vote. They take their progressive and more left leaning base for granted and go after the corporate dollar.
As long as people continue to vote for a candidate only because of the D after the name then there is little incentive for that candidate to take on more progressive points of view.

Those who oppose Hillary's stance on war on Iran need to flood her office with e mails and phone calls. The audience she was speaking in front of, I suspect knows NO ONE with boots on the ground in Iraq. If they do it would surprise me. As I've said many times, when the wealthy and well conncted have to risk their progeny or other family members, then maybe war will not seem like such a good idea.

Hillary if war is so good, SEND CHELSEA!

[DainBramaged]

189. And is that your cause or the cause of the officials YOU elected?

Sure, you can read the future. You KNOW that Clinton will never end the war IF she is elected President (which I am sure you will work against).
:sarcasm:

The party can't even decide on ONE amendment (non-binding, I might add) to chastise the Shrub and won't even cut off the funding. Maybe YOU should call Nancy Pelosi and vent on her, not me.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

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[stranger81]

150. It's not about "ego" trumping the "greater good" --

it's not a bunch of egotistical idealists that "torpedo the election" -- it's the possibility that the party itself will choose to run a candidate that has divorced herself from the "greater good" (unless you define the "greater good" as simplistically as whether a D or R appears behind a candidate's name). As members of the Democratic Party, it should be our obligation and goal to make sure the party doesn't make that mistake in the primary.

[DainBramaged]

157. Mistake in who's eyes?

If the party elects a goat to run against the Rethug candidate, it is OUR OBLIGATION to vote for the goat to make sure the Rethug doesn't continue the destruction of this country.


Who are we to decide what is a good or bad candidate? For any registered Democrat to even entertain the thought of voting for ANY Rethug disgusts me. And for any registered Democrat thinking of undercutting or defaming ANY candidate instead of letting the process work makes me sick.

Grow up people, you can't always get what you want, but if you don't try harder, we get another 4 yeas of Rethug rule. And don't think for one second they aren't behind this campaign of hate.

[RegimeChange2008]

169. If the result is a continuation of this insane, genocidal, imperialist, fascist foreign policy...

Then what does it matter which label you put on it? There is no "lesser of two evils" in this case, merely TWO EVILS.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

136. ima_sinnic, I think your right, Hillary's a PNAC/DLC Trojan horse.

I’d like to know why Hillary is running in the first place.

Half the country hates both Clintons, and most democrats don’t like Hillary. I can’t understand how the media keeps saying she’s the front runner.

Her running doesn’t make sense. You can’t take such a polarizing figure and make her president.

With Hillary choking off funds going to other candidates, how could anyone go up against her?

So...our choices in ‘08 will be a republican or Hillary.

In the end we’ll have either a republican president or a president that 75% of America hates.

[Individualist]

137. No doubt about it.

A vote for a DLCer is a vote for the republicans.

[RegimeChange2008]

171. Actually, she's no trojan horse at all

A trojan horse - either the historical variety or it's high tech equivalent - is well disguised until it has infected the system, and only then does it's true purpose emerge.

Hillary, on the other hand is actually being very obvious about her intentions to continue the Likud Zionfascist agenda which became the insane, genocidal, imperialist, fascist foreign policy of the Bush Crime Family.

[LoZoccolo]

179. Writing in is lame.

See you in 2008.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[DainBramaged]

54. Then you belong with the Republicans, good bye

[ima_sinnic]

56. oooh--now watch yourself be told to

"find another board"

:popcorn:

on edit: dang! in the time it took me to type that, it happened! (indirectly)

[deutsey]

67. Don't worry, Reagan-Bush appointees on the SC will negate

any votes that manage to register on the rigged voting machines.

And most Congressional Democrats will look the other way, just like in 2000.

[frylock]

153. will you be able to sleep at night after you cast a vote for clinton..

only to find out it's BAU?

[DainBramaged]

156. Will you be able to sleep if a Rethug is elected?

Goodbye.

[frylock]

159. like a baby..

DLC DINO or mod repub, it's all the same to me. FYI, living in Cali affords me the opportunity to vote my consience being that were pretty much solid blue.



GOODNIGHT NOW!

[joe_b]

209. I feel the same way

I will not vote for her in the primary for that reason. She's not strongly enough against war. Attacking Iran would be a mistake, even if they get a nuke. We live with other nuclear countries and can live with a nuclear Iran. This idea that the only option left is to attack is crazy. What I'd like to hear her say is that as President she would work for the elimination of nuclear weapons altogether, as required by the NPT.

Looks like John Edwards feels the same way, as he told the Herzliya Conference: Keeping Iran from nuclear weapons "is the greatest challenge of our generation. ... To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep all options on the table. ... Let me reiterate – all options." And Mitt Romney: Iran is more dangerous than Khrushchev's Soviet Union. http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/235/52/

None of these candidates has the aversion to war that I'm looking for.

[Philosoraptor]

6. Her true form revealed.

I won't either.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. Awwwww, How Cute, A Picture Of Hillary With Red Eyes And Green Skin. Never Would've Expected It!

:spray:

[Hawkowl]

124. She's not a leader

Once again Hilary demonstrates her lack of leadership ability. Just when I think "she's not so bad". She doesn't frame issues or solutions she merely watches Faux news and reacts. Jumping on the "I won't rule out attacking Iran bandwagon" because I need to look tough! WHAT THE FUCK!!!! Idiot! Coward! Fool!! Here she is letting the most evil administration in the history of the country manipulate her attention AWAY from Iraq, AWAY from Katrina, AWAY from the evil corrupt Libby trial and Darth Cheney..to...to call for war with IRAN?!? With what army? Switzerland's?

They are on the ropes. You don't let your opponent catch his breath when he's down, kick him! Kick him until he stops moving. I'm voting for the dem who hammers the rethuglicans the most. Who brings the most corruption to light. Who brings the most solutions to all the problems they have caused. AND NOT to some fucking idiot who is merely going to parrot the goddamn Fox news story of the day.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[DainBramaged]

197. OK, if she wins the primary, don't vote for her, let a Rethug back in

[woodsprite]

7. If Bill is 'like a son' to Poppy, why would

we want his 'daughter in law' to be Pres. We need somebody different. I want a Clark/Obama ticket.

[merh]

40. exactly

She won't get my vote.

[Swamp Rat]

104. merh!!!

:hi: How are you??? :hug: :hug: :hug:

[merh]

117. Hey ya Swampy Baby!

How's my favorite master of green and red? :hi:

:hug: :loveya:

[Swamp Rat]

120. surviving

I just got part of the house rewired, but they aren't done and it's not a very good job... the quality of the contractors available is not so good, and they are charging way too much. Now, I have even more holes in the walls than before. :eyes: I wonder how long until they do my walls and ceilings?... they were paid 50% last July, but haven't yet started the interior work! :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Yes, I prefer green and red, and all the other shades in between, as opposed to the black and white, if you don't vote for EVERY Democrat 100% of the time, you can go to another board. Where have I seen this type of ideology before? :rofl:

[Hepburn]

180. Yeah, I want Clark to run, too...

...and I would like him with just about any solid Dem as the VP running mate. I would LOVE to see Clark-Feingold or Clark-Webb, my last choice would be Obama, but that, too, would be OK with me. And when I say solid Dem...in reference to Webb, he is solid on what appears to be the MOST important issue I have ~~ getting the US the fuck out of the ME. He may not have been a Dem that long...but he is solid on the issues that count as far as I am concerned.

Can you imagine having a Prez McCain or Guilani? I am telling ya, those are thoughts on which nightmares are based in my head. And, IMO, if the Dems run Hillary....our nation is looking at a possibility of having one of those two Repub freaks as POTUS. That scares the be-jeeebus out of me.

[johncoby2]

8. No kidding. Voting for a republican would be better.

:sarcasm:

[bigtree]

10. she's not alone

watch for it . . .

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. How does this stance differ from any of the other serious Democratic candidates?

:shrug:

[rpgamerd00d]

13. It doesn't. They all have this position, as they should.

[BushOut06]

59. Really - you think Democrats should EMBRACE war with Iran?

Tell me, why do you think it's okay to go to war with Iran? Because they *might* someday have nuclear weapons? We don't even know if they are building nukes! The ONLY evidence that we have they are doing so comes from the SAME intelligence agencies who were telling us about Saddam's WMD programs! And even IF we knew for sure that Iran was pursuing nuclear weapons - SO WHAT. Israel has nukes. Should they be the only nation in the region to have them? Seems rather one-sided, doesn't it? If Iran were foolish enough to actually use their nukes, or supply them to a terrorist group, Iran would no longer exist as a nation. We would see to that.

So tell us exactly why you think it's worth sacrificing THOUSANDS more American lives.

[Freddie Stubbs]

70. Saying that an option should be kept on the table is a big difference from embracing it

Good pokers players never show thier cards.

[BushOut06]

78. I'm sorry, but in this case, WAR should not be an option

If sending thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iranians to their deaths based on unproven "intelligence" seems like a good option to you, then I must vehemently disagree. Did the current situation in Iraq teach us NOTHING? We have taken our Democratic leaders to task for supporting the buildup to Iraq, and rightfully so. Our leaders didn't question the intelligence strongly enough, they were in such a hurry to "support" the president and his "policy" - and look where it got us. It wasn't until Americans started dying by the hundreds in Iraq that we finally found the balls to speak out, but by that point it was too late.

Do you really think we should make the SAME mistake in Iran? There are many other things we can try. Like TALKING to Iran. Negotiating. Face-to-face talks. You know, the sort of thing that this administration is so goddamned reluctant to do.

[Dhalgren]

12. So we must be willing to go to war because some country's

president is a Holocaust denier? And, again, this article repeats the misinformation that Iran's president said Israel should be "wipe off the face of the earth". We don't need an escalation of the Bushian war rhetoric coming from the Democratic side. No more blood-thirsty militarists - regardless of party!

[B Calm]

14. As President of the Young Republicans at Wellesley College,

I don't think she has ever forgotten her college roots...

[DainBramaged]

15. Of course you won't spreading hate and distrust is the Republican way

[peacetalksforall]

17. Accepts an invitation to speak to AIPAC? What follow that is

doing what she did - saying what THEY want to hear.

Did she tell them that the IAEA says they are years away from having nuclear wmd? Did she tell them that our own NSC said they were 10 years away (said in July 2005)? Did she tell them that some said that the remaining 8 1/2 years could be reduced if they were able to purchse the right parts? It boils down to being years away. Sooooooo.....

DID SHE TELL THEM THAT THERE IS TIME FOR IRANIANS TO CHANGE THEIR LEADER?

DID SHE TELL THEM THAT THERE IS STILL TIME FOR PEACE SEEKERS AND WAR MONGERS TO NEGOTIATE AND FIND PEACE FOR THE GOOD OD CHILDREN? ALL CHILDREN? ALL CHILDREN IN THE VILLAGE?

Has she joined those who want to jump start the clock on the risk?

DId she tell them to read the articles about our VP dealing with groups who sell parts to Iran?

[bigtree]

114. SHE DID INDEED!

thanks for bringing that forward, higher class.

[annabanana]

18. Tell her how you feel here:

http://clinton.senate.gov/contact/webform.cfm?subj=issue

I know I have.

[NEOhiodemocrat]

27. Thank you for the link

I just sent off an email to her expressing my dismay, and that I will be searching the primary field for a candidate to support. I sure hope it doesn't come down to her winning the primary now, I would have a very hard time voting for her after this. It was iffy before, but this is too much. Bush does not need a democratic nominee giving him support on a war in Iran, which is basically the effect of her words.

[adigal]

61. I just sent Madam Fundraiser this email

Senator Clinton,
Now I hear you banging the war drums for Iran, saying that no option will be taken off the table. Yeah, bomb Iran, and oil will go up to $200 per barrel, our economy will crash, more will be killed. And you are a Democrat??
Unless you stop this warmongering posture, I will spend every penny I can spare against your candidacy, and if you are the Democratic nominee, I will vote for Mickey Mouse before I cast a vote for you. You seem to be unable to break away from war talk, and you love the corporations who are supporting you, so unless you discover that you are a Democrat after all, and act like one, you are not for me.
Regards,
Adigal

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. You're Talking About Not Voting For Her Only In The Primaries I Presume?

I certainly hope that's all you're advocating.

[bonito]

20. And if she wins the primaries

depending on her opposition, I might vote for them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. Just Don't Advocate That Here. There Are Other Sites You Can Advocate Voting Republican.

The fact that you think this nation will be better off with a Republican president in 2008 speaks volumes to me.

[bonito]

25. The fact you can make that generalized statement

in lock step fashion is revealing to me.

[LSK]

32. whats revealing to me is that you learned NOTHING from the 2000 election

And the previous 6 years.

[mike_c]

43. like never vote for warmongers or their enablers...?

Regardless of party.

[Hosnon]

167. No kidding. I voted Nader in 2000 and you can bet I learned my lesson. nt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Yes. It Reveals That I've Been Paying Attention The Last 6 Years And You Haven't.

And just know that come election time, I will not hesitate for a second to alert on any posts advocating against OUR candidate or for the election of OUR opponent. I will do whatever I can to make sure that they are dealt with quickly.

Like I said, if you want to do such advocating you have a choice of many other sites on the web to do so. But it is against the rules to bring that shit here. Hopefully when the time comes you will remember that.

[adigal]

65. What are you? The Thread Nazi???

If someone feels the Democratic candidate is a warmonger, and her opponent (Chuck Hagel, for instance) is not, and since something like 86% of Dems are against the war but you LOVE Hillary, you will scurry around like a rat reporting on threads?? You had better donate 42/7 to this, because I can guarantee if Hillary is the nominee, most activist Dems will not be happy.

Yeah, you are some Democrat, censorship and all.

;)

[LSK]

69. you have it reversed, if you folks are so concerned about war mongers

I assume you are contritubing to the Kucinich Campaign because he is the only candidate so far to NOT call Iran a threat.

Instead of LAME statements saying you will not back a democrat, how about going out and making sure your candidate wins the nomination?

[adigal]

126. I plan to...and Hillary is NOT my candidate - warmongering Fundraiser

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

72. Take Your Issue Straight To Skinner. Ask Him If It's Ok For You To Advocate For Hagel.

I'll abide by his response, ok?

:hi:

[DainBramaged]

77. Hear hear, granite sandwich it should be

A reposting of TWO simple paragraphs from the "rules"

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

[adigal]

128. Stop misrepresenting the rules

"We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned."
I am not opposed to the goals of this site. I don't think Bush is doing a swell job, I think he is a warmongering fool. I do not want to see Republicans win, but I might prefer ONE anti-war Republican over a warmongering Democrat. I am not supportive of any republican ideals. I am a rabid Democrat, which is why I can't stand Hillary, the ultimate prevaricator.

So stop your nonsense.

[paulk]

143. it isn't nonsense

if you advocate for voting for anyone but the Democratic candidate after that candidate has been chosen, in any election, state or federal, you will be banned from this site. It's happened to many, many posters here.

If you don't believe me, ask Skinner.

[adigal]

149. That's fine - if I have to vote my conscience

I will just post at daily kos and some other sites where you don't get banned for taking an honest stand on the most important issue of the day.
;)

[DainBramaged]

145. OK, I'll ignore you too, goodbye

[moodforaday]

165. Hillary is not a candidate yet

Hillary is not a candidate yet, not a party nominee. If the rule meant what you're suggesting it means, you guys could never discuss *any* strenghts and weaknesses of *any* Democrat.

Right now the issue is, should Hillary be the nominee. Arguing for other potential candidates is not arguing to defeat the Democrats. Even arguing about potential Republican nominees isn't.

But again, as an outsider, my instinct would be to vote for the candidate who has the highest hope of ending the war, ending the torture, ending the renditions, ending the meddling in the affairs of other countries. My instint would be to vote on policy, not party line. And if the Democratic platform were more war-mongering, then I guess yeah, a lot of folks would go looking for a different forum.

[Postman]

83. No one is "advocating" for Hagel, it's an example of possible scenarios.

If Dennis Kucinich were to get the Democratic nomination, then I would vote for him in a nano-second over ANY republican.

What is more likely however, is someone like Hagel going up against someone like Hillary...

If Barack Obama gets the nod, I'm 100% behind Obama. No contest.

It's all about the War/Wars/Domestic Policy/Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Get it?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

90. Sure They Were. Plain As Day. Hell, You Even Just Hinted Such.

It was quite clear to deduce in the original response I replied to that if it was a Hagel vs Hillary matchup the poster would have no problem voting for Hagel.

In fact, based on what you just posted above, it appears you were hinting that if it were in fact a Hillary vs Hagel matchup that you would vote for Chuck as well.

But regardless, it matters not to me who does or doesn't advocate that. All I care about is that when the time comes, that bullshit isn't posted here. Nothing more.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

99. That's The Most Hilariously Wrong Declaration I've Ever Seen!

"Then I'm voting for Hagel.

Is that advocating for Hagel?

No."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh, that's rich!

Of COURSE that's advocating for Hagel!

So please, be aware that when the time comes, any posts that declare they are voting for the repub or advocating against voting for our nominee will be PROMPTLY alerted upon not only by myself, but the majority of others here as well.

[ima_sinnic]

103. why do you find it so necessary to keep repeating that?

you feel the need to remind everybody of your "power to alert"?
gee, yeah, that'll keep everybody in line--I am trembling!!!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Because Sometimes It Takes Multiple Hits With A Hammer To Get A Nail Through A Brick Wall. n/t

[Postman]

105. I couldn't care less. It's called holding people accountable for their actions..

Because I happen to be reasonable and sane in my arguments you find that threatening.

Apparently you don't understand nuance.

[ima_sinnic]

107. hee hee -- it must be frustrating when the biggest stick one can

wield is the alert button!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

110. Oh There's A Bigger Stick, A Much Bigger One, But That One's Up To The Admins To Use, Not Me.

:hi:

[Postman]

112. What is it with this person?

I'm the most lefty person I know.

National Health care? Yes.
Large cuts in the Military Budget? Yes.
Free medical care for seniors? Yes.
Increased Social Security payments to seniors? Yes.
Raise the cap on income that could be taxed for Social Security? Yes.
Implement a Dept. of Peace (as per Dennis Kucinich)? Yes.
Cut off Corporate subsidies? Yes.
Withdraw military from worldwide occupation (bases)? Yes.
National project to get off of oil? Yes.

Get out of Iraq? Yes
No war with Iran? Yes.

Vote for a corporate pro-war Democrat? No.
Vote for a moderate anti-war republican compared to (see above)? Yes.

Would I vote for an anti-war Democrat? In a heartbeat.

[ima_sinnic]

123. well, it's that "no" in your 3rd line from the bottom

--that is Just Not Allowed because you're "advocating" and Will Be Alerted Upon if you do that. so Get With The Program, okay? :crazy:

[adigal]

131. I don't get it either

Acting totally irrationally, like he/she is in charge of "ALL THAT IS WRITTEN." Odd, isn't it?

[adigal]

130. Remember the Seinfeld episode with the Soup Nazi?

That is how you are behaving. Like you are some kind of bigshot reporter, sounds like the Soviet Union. Embarrassing, really. Please stop it.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

95. HAGEL IS A REPUBLICAN how do we communicate this to you?

He may have jumped on the anti-Buh bandwagon to save his wrinkled old ass in his district, but HE IS A REPUBLICAN.


THAT is the difference between Hillary and him. No other excuse applies.

Hagel scored a 96 rating in 2005 from the American Conservative Union (ACU), up from 87 in 2004 and a lifetime rating of 85.

HE IS A CONSERVATIVE with a one trick pony message.

[adigal]

129. It depends on how important the Iraq War is to each individual

I, personally, will not vote for Hillary, as she still did not denounce her vote, and is now talking about "all options being on the table" for Iran. I may just sit out, I may vote for someone third party, I may vote for a republican if he/she is anti-war, but I will NOT vote for Hillary unless she changes her tune.

Period. How do I communicate to you that some people must vote their consciences, or do what they think is best. (Besides, compared to Obama and Edwards and Clark and Gore, Hillary is barely even a Democrat.)

[RegimeChange2008]

175. Can you read your own signature?

You end every one of your posts with the words "NO war is worth fighting". Then you turn around and openly shill for a candidate who is planning to expand the MOST USELESS WAR IN THE HISTORY OF THIS PLANET.

How can you possibly justify that discrepancy to yourself, let alone to the rest of us?

[DainBramaged]

184. You either can't read or don't want to read what I've posted

I don't shill for any candidate, I will wait until the Democratic convention but until then, ANYONE who slices and dices ANY Democratic candidate is fair game for a note to the Admins.

Put on glasses and read my posts. Better yet, don't because you obviously couldn't be bothered before you decided to bash me.

[ima_sinnic]

71. somehow I think your "attention" was distracted for a good part of that time

you didn't notice Pillory schmoozing with *co? you didn't notice that the great majority of "democrats" have aided and abetted the criminal in chief? yet we are hereby ordered by you, oh mighty attentive one, to Vote.For.The.Democrat no matter how SOSO (i.e., same old same old) and corporatist-sponsored war-profiteering triangulating that person is. whatever.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. No, You're Not Ordered To Vote For The Dem. Just Keep The Bullshit Adovcating Against It Off Of DU.

As per the rules.

If you want to advocate against the Dem nominee there is a plethora of other sites available for you to do so. But if I see it here when the time comes it will be alerted on, period.

[bonito]

80. Check out post 76

Might help, ya think? peace

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

85. Why? It Was Useless Towards This Argument

Think as freely as you want. Just don't bring the 'I'm voting for the republican' bullshit here.

If you want to advocate for that, there are many other sites in which you can do so, freely. Got it?

[ima_sinnic]

91. who's "advocating"? is your candidate so fragile we can't criticize her

and say we won't vote for her without you accusing us of that kind of BS?
sheesh, if she had anything going for her, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I think your mission, like that of all good authoritarian-admirers, is to put a lid on any dissent about The Party and the nominee who might be forced on us. I am perfectly within my rights to say I.Will.Not.Vote.for.Hillary --primary or otherwise. and I'm not "advocating" for anybody else.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. Some In This Thread Have Blatantly Advocated. And It Is Against The Rules To Advocate Against

the Democratic nominee being elected as well, when the time comes. Hopefully some here who need to will keep that in mind.

[ima_sinnic]

82. hey, guess what? she's NOT the nominee!

and HOPEFULLY she never will be.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

84. Hopefully She Won't Be. But I'm Talking About If She Is. So Stay Focused On The Context Please.

[ima_sinnic]

88. what context is that?

the only context I see around your posts is threats of "alerting" IF someone bad-mouths the nominee and making sure they understand they are no longer welcome here. You seem to have a personal mission of monitoring the posts to make sure everybody understands that. whatever brightens up your day, I guess ...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. It's Not About Bad Mouthing, Per Se.

It's about advocating against their election once they're the nominee. If anyone here does that, I will be alerting on the posts promptly as will many others.

This is a site that at the end of the day has one common mission: Getting democrats elected. Period.

If someone doesn't believe in that mission, no matter WHO the nominee is, then there are many other sites available to them.

[ProgressiveFool]

121. How about waiting until that is the case?

We're what, a year and a half out from having a nominee? Until that time, Hillary is fair game, IMO, and she needs to be shown how strongly against this and future wars her base is.

As to Hillary's comment in this instance, I think it is prudent to leave any and all options on the table, so long as the main option to be tried is diplomacy. Hillary has stated that she believes in talking to enemies.

[adigal]

132. Cool...so if we nominate some crazy Democrat

we all have to censor our opinions and promote that person.

That is the craziest thing I have ever heard of on a Democratic (read: rational and free-thinking) website.

[BushOut06]

63. Are you forgetting where you are?

DEMOCRATIC Underground. Supporting Repugs is strictly forbidden on this site.

I suspect if Hillary does win the nomination, we're going to need a bigger graveyard around here.

[ima_sinnic]

79. yes, that's right, b/c if HRC wins the nominaton I will no longer feel

any connection to the Dem party and will be glad to leave the site so the handful who think party is more important than principle can have their own little endless-loop HRC-worshipping circle jerk.

[LSK]

81. I AM NOT FAN OF HILLARY CLINTON

BUT I GUESS THE HOWARD DEAN AVATAR THAT I HAVE HAD FOR 3+ YEARS HERE ISNT ENOUGH OF A CLUE????


:grr:

[ima_sinnic]

86. er, I think you meant to respond to the berater-in-chief?

somehow I guess we are not supposed to say ANYthing bad about a Dem even if she isn't even the nominee!

[LSK]

89. no, this is about supporting the Dem nominee in the GENERAL ELECTION

WHY IS THIS A HARD CONCEPT TO COMPREHEND?????

:shrug:

[ima_sinnic]

94. that is ridiculous! as long as that nominee is a highly qualified

candidate who will put the interests of We The People ahead of his or her own interests and those of some corporate sponsors and paymasters, then of course I will vote for that person.

If not, why should I? why should I care about it in that case? what would be different from what we have now? a well-paid toadie is a well-paid toadie regardless of party and will do nothing for me OR you. there is no virtue in blind party loyalty. NOBODY can take my vote for granted, thank you, though I have never once voted for a Repuke in about 45 years of voting.

[LSK]

98. nevermind

Obviously this is going nowhere.

[ima_sinnic]

100. no, Bush got "elected" by SC fiat

you forgot that Gore won the popular vote and had actually won the electoral vote--FLorida had actually been declared for Gore--when suddenly there was a sudden "mysterious reversal" and Florida was suddenly NOT Gore's. Did you forget that?

[LSK]

115. look up the New Hampshire vote in 2000 please

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

106. You Are Well Within Your Rights To Vote For Whoever You Want. Just Don't

advocate against the election of our nominee here when the time comes. That's all we are asking.

[ima_sinnic]

109. gee, that's 21 months away -- could you remind me a few hundred

more times between now and then? I might "forget" and "advocate" and then you will have the unpleasant(?) duty of calling for my tombstone!! Oh.My.God! So don't let me forget your almighty alert-button power between now and then!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

113. No Problem If You Forget Right Now. You'll Be Reminded Again When The Time Is Right LOL

[Individualist]

135. Would you like to use my sig line?

Locksteppers and cultists are wasting their time trying to attack me with their snarky, condescending posts (they do become quite boring when posted ad nauseum). Some of us are quite capable of independent thought.

[BushOut06]

87. Me either, but I'd rather have her than some Repug asswipe

Regardless of her foreign policy views, I trust her on domestic issues (ie health care, taxes, education) a lot more than I would any repug asshole.

I really fear this upcoming election could split the Democratic Party in two, allowing the repugs to maintain control for years.

[adigal]

134. How could you possibly disregard a Democrat's foreign policy views??

A huge part of the problems we are having in this country is caused by warmongering. It doesn't matter who does it, it harms our nation and kills other people. I mean, health care is very important to me too, but if we keep warmongering, we won't have any $$ for health care anyway.

[dweller]

172. we're on an online message board

and i suspect if we nominate a warmongering candidate, the world is going to need more bigger graveyards
everywhere.

are you forgetting where you really are?
dp

[moodforaday]

166. Better off?

The nation will be better off with a president who ENDS THE F*ING WAR, not a president itching to start a new one.

[NavyDavy]

23. then you deserve the repuke you get

[LostinVA]

30. Then you probably shouldn't be on DEMOCRATIC Underground

Supporting R candidates is against DU rules.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

138. My mom has been a democrat all her life, she said she'd vote for Rudy before she'd vote for Hillary.

People aren't as loyal to their party as we are here. They vote for the one they would most likely want to have a beer with.

And if you feel loyalty to the party means everything...how do we get republicans to cross over and vote for Hillary? ...No one here would ever vote for Laura.

[Nutmegger]

22. Yes the warmongerers never seem to learn.

TERRA!

[leeroysphitz]

26. The onion says everything there is to say about Senator Clinton.

"The last thing America needs is a radical liberal who supports the war and the death penalty while opposing flag-burning and gay marriage."

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/hillary_in_08

Satire? Maybe, but it sounds like they are spot here.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

28. I'm all hot for Senator

Brownback.

[Beelzebud]

29. I won't either. I want REAL change. Enough Clintons and Bushes.

[Nedsdag]

41. This isn't a two-family oligarchy.

This country needs new blood. No more Bushes and Clintons.

[LSK]

31. there is only one choice right now DENNIS KUCINICH

[frylock]

154. word up

[timtom]

214. Finally!

I was going to challenge some of the earlier posts on why those who are so in favor of Hillary wouldn't rather argue passionately for the Kooch.

Come to think of it, I think I'll change my avatar back to Kucinich the way it was before the 2004 election.

[timtom]

215. There.

That's better.

[MrPrax]

35. When a lobbyist buys a politician...

two things happen that people tend to forget

1) expectation that the politician will persuade legislation and policy to the lobbyist objectives
2) suppress, threaten, intimidate and actively work against 'other' lobbies with a competing point of view

Clinton will be expected to not only make the case for Iran, but also use her clout to suppress opposition within the Democratic party.

It's undemocratic and as destructive to political parties as it is government itself.

[Gloria]

37. "Bullying Iran" from the IHT......a sane viewpoint/editorial

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/01/opinion/ediran.php

February 1, 2007

Bullying Iran
....

In what passes for grand strategy, the president's aides say he is betting that bloodying Iranian forces in Iraq, and raising the threat of a wider confrontation, will weaken Tehran's regional standing and force its leaders to rethink their nuclear ambitions. Never mind that Bush's last big idea — that imposing democracy on Iraq would weaken Iran's authoritarians — has had the opposite effect.

Bush seems to be grossly misreading Iran's domestic politics and ignoring his own recent experience. In a rare moment of subtlety, the Treasury Department has quietly persuaded some banks and investors to rethink their dealings with Tehran. That has made some in Iran's permanent religious elite — already worried about future oil production — express doubts about President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's defiance of the Security Council.

As ever, the one tactic the administration is refusing to consider is diplomacy. Bush has resisted calls to convene a meeting of Iraq's neighbors to discuss ways to contain the crisis. There is no guarantee that Ahmadinejad can be persuaded that Iraq's further implosion is not in Iran's interest. But others in Tehran may have clearer heads. And any hope of driving a wedge between Iran and Syria will have to start by giving Damascus hope that there is a way in from the cold.

Bush's bullying may play well to his ever shrinking base. But his disastrous war in Iraq has done so much damage to U.S. credibility — and so strained its resources— that it no longer frightens America's enemies. The only ones really frightened are Americans and America's friends.

[Alamom]

38. Hillary says "I think it might rain, maybe a lot , so lets check the weather

& watch to see...take the proper precautions if there is a storm brewing."


Translation by Hillary Haters; "Hillary says the US will have the largest Tsunami ever recorded anywhere on earth."




God save us from Hillary Clinton as she is the only politician responsible for anything & everything bad that is happening in this country and around the world AND for everything bad that has ever happened in the past and will happen in the future. She is worse than any Repuke we can or could ever vote for. Amen:sarcasm:


So predictable.....:eyes:

[Postman]

92. Ridiculous.

You act as though I've put her in the same camp as Hitler.

She is a corporate Democrat, Pro-war Democrat that is sympathetic to the views of AIPAC.

No friggin way would I vote for a pro-war Democrat.

We have too many of those. Period.

[caseycoon]

42. If she is the 08 Democratic candidate

for President I will grit my teeth, shut my mouth & vote for her. Until that time I would not support her at all. She has never been on my 'possibles' list.

[moodforaday]

168. By the same logic

millions of people voted for Bush, twice. In Bush's case it's because he's "got religion". So people who are about that one thing the most, grit their teeth, bend over and vote for Bush. And the rest is - on the news every night.

Please do not vote against your conscience.

[caseycoon]

177. Voting for Hillary

would be against my choice. Voting Republican at this time would be against my conscience entirely. Haven't they done enough evil?

[RegimeChange2008]

216. And if Hillary is planning on doing the exact same evil

Then what is gained by "electing" her?

[Hepburn]

181. You echo my feelings EXACTLY. n/t

[meow mix]

48. i agree

total warmonger she needs to go away.

[npincus]

58. she sure does suck up those RW Talking Points

[lesab]

66. look at the big picture...

Think about this.....most Americans don't care if the choices are Republic or Democratic. They look at the most pressing issues of the day or who they think is a better person overall. Lots of people on this site get upset if you are thinking about voting anything but Democratic and that's ok because that is how they feel about the issue. But....it is also ok for the other people to feel like there is no way that they can vote for a particular person because of an issue that is close to their heart. WE THE PEOPLE are still free and can make our own individual choices. Being diplomatic and trying to convince others about their choices are fine but sometimes I think that people just get too irate when someone disagrees with them. That isn't the way to get others to see your point. I am hoping for the next president to be a Democrat, but the issue that I care about is the war and I want the killing to stop, I want people to respect us as a country again, and I want to feel like my children have a future of opportunity, with a clean earth, and hopes for world peace where people care about each other and money becomes a secondary concern. I only see that happening with a Democrat but if I could see that in an Indy or even a Republic, then that is where my vote will go. I Hate Pary politics that divides people as a whole. I will not under any circumstances vote for someone, even if they are a democrat, who does not feel as I do about the above items listed. I am so tired of holding my nose to vote for someone I really don't care for and then losing anyway because the majority of average people just choose who is the lesser of two evils and that splits the vote. I want someone I can believe in....at this time that person is AL GORE. I am really not impressed with anyone else.

I got my hopes up when Dems took control, but now I see them losing their spine on the war issue and impeachment. Someone better stand up and fight for what is right, (not pary politics) if they want to win. If not then everybody is going to just hold their noses and choose. Don't be upset with people who make choices based on what is right, be upset with people who make choices that put blah - blah politicians on the ballot in the first place.

I miss Howard Dean as a candidate. If Al doesn't run, I'll vote for whoever matches my criteria and hopes for the future, regardless of pary.

FLAME AWAY!!!!!!!!!!

[Postman]

93. Amen. Good post.

Vote your conscience.

[diamidue]

118. Amen. That's how I feel, too

I cannot vote for more of this unnecessary occupation. There is no way I personally would be able to look at the photos of all the women and children with their bodies blown to pieces, and live with myself, knowing that my vote was implicated in their deaths.

I do get the sick feeling that Hillary has already been annointed; already been bought. I get the sick feeling that the fix is in.

[EFerrari]

173. I think I'm 'way left of mainstream Dems and disagree with them often

but isn't it a little soon to say they're lost their spine? What has it been == three weeks or so? lol

I just saw Henry Waxman kick ass in his hearings on the censoring of scientists. He looked pretty upright to me. :)

Senator Clinton seems to be going by some formula that doesn't accomodate the basic insanity of the "war on terra". I hope she has a moment of clarity.

But, her strategery doesn't generalize to ALL Democrats.

[lesab]

219. why I think they've lost their spine...

I think they have lost their spine because they are fighting over whether to vote for a non-binding resolution that says they are bit unsure if Bush should have a troop surge.

DUH!!!

Stop the war NOW. Don't show a bit of disappointment, show the rage. Show outrage that this President is being so stupid. Don't whine and discuss and compromise. DEMAND!

[EFerrari]

236. On this issue, I'd have to agree with you. They are making a mistake

by ignoring the will of the people who gave them the majority.

Bring them home NOW. :hi:

[bonito]

76. A great source for a daily read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought Peace:hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

101. Save us Hillary!! The bogeyman is gonna get us!

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

[judaspriestess]

111. the borg or is it illuminati

sorry....... just thought of that when I saw the Borg, which is a great reference.

[EFerrari]

116. PLEASE don't nominate her. n/t

[Clark2008]

119. So who pressed more flesh there. Clinton or Edwards?

[BuyingThyme]

141. Clinton.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BuyingThyme]

133. Wrong, Mrs. Clinton. The most despicable bigots and historical revisionists

are those who murder based on lies.

[buff2]

139. I won't either

Can you imagine what it would be like if she were to win? It would be one big HUGE bu$h/Clinton lovefest. Jr. and poppy would be included in EVERYTHING going on in the White House and it would be non-stop photo-ops of the bu$hes and Clintons fawning all over each other. My stomach couldn't handle it. :puke:

[Adelante]

148. Sounds just like Edwards to me

What has Obama said about Iran?

[Martin Eden]

161. We need to STOP the impending war with Iran.

Anything less than taking a firm stand against this next war betrays the American people.

Hillary's comments amount to carrying water for the warmongers.

[Hepburn]

178. What concerns me about the 2008 election?

The choice will be between Hillary Clinton and John McCain. OMG! Talk about literally having nightmares over something. I out and out do not like either of them ~~ but my dislike for McCain would cause me to go to the polls and vote for Hillary as the lesser of the two bad choices. I cannot get on the Hillary bandwagon because of her support for Israel ~~ and I come from a Jewish background so being anti-Semitic has -0- to do with that ~~ and her wishy-washy, johnny-come-lately anti-war stance. Frankly, IMO, she is anti-war right now because politically it is a good thing for her. She just blows with the wind too much, IMO. I do not find her sincere...and I just plain do NOT like her. But hands down over McCain, I would vote for her. But....let's face it: ANYTHING is better than McCain, so that is not saying much good about Hillary.

[ikojo]

182. Her husband regularly bombed Iraq

during his eight years in office. Hillary is no peace monger but she IS a war monger. Chelsea will never see a battlefield, unless you call working for a New York investment firm a battlefield. Hillary and her class are more than willing to send the working class to fight their wars of oil and conquest.

[VelmaD]

187. I hope a lot of you on this thread have read the rules

Because if Hillary wins the nomination (which would not be my personal preference) you WILL NOT be allowed to stay on this board and advocate a vote for any other candidate.

If she is the choice of Democratic primary voters and you chose not to support her and your party...then how does that make you any different than Joe Lieberman? It's the same kind of petulant "fine, I'll take my toys and go home" attitude.

[Roland99]

190. If that's truly the case, I expect a LOT of users won't be posting here anymore.

Myself included.

No way can I vote for that pandering POS.

[VelmaD]

193. it's so nice to know we learned nothing from 2004

It's like some people around here have never gone through a primary season before in their lives. It's really very simple. In the primary you vote with your heart and your conscience and your convictions. You work like hell for the candidate you believe in most. But once it's over and the primary voters have selected our candidate...if your person didn't win you suck it up and work for the party nominee. If you go and vote for someone else or advocate against voting for the Democratic candidate...then are you really a Democrat?

And if you honestly think there's no difference betweeen Hillary Clinton and any of the potential Republican nominees...then you need to do some actual research on ALL the issues...not just the war. On about a thousand issues Hillary is better than any Republican. Not that I'm gonna vote for her in the primary...not far enough to the left for me. But I can at least acknowledge the reality that she votes the right way on a lot of issues.

On edit: I'm down with the flu today so this will likely be my last post for a while. Anyone who wants to come comment, feel free...just re-read my two posts...everything I have to say on this issue is pretty much there already.

[Roland99]

194. Like Hillary would really end the war in Iraq?? BULLSHIT!

I don't trust her one bit.

She's the worst panderer I've seen in decades. PATHETIC.

[DainBramaged]

200. Pandering POS?

My ignore list is going to be huge come election day. I guess Kerry Edwards and Obama aren't pandering to anyone? Don't bother to reply, I don't care.

[Roland99]

202. Just look at her stance on Iraq. It changes with the wind. And censorship?

She is pro-nanny state, pro-war, pro-corporatism. She's uber-DLC.



Screw her.

[DainBramaged]

205. Then you have no choice if she wins the primary

I think that anyone who is a registered Democrat who openly advocates the defeat of any Democratic candidate should switch parties. We have put up with Bush and his minions for six years, and a Republican controlled majority for 12. We hold a razor thin margin in the Senate. If we don't take back the White House, the future of my daughter and all the children is bleak, and if your personal hatred is more important than that, we're done.


Besides, if you are so sure she is going to be elected by the party, maybe it's time to leave anyway?

[Roland99]

206. Who says I'm sure she's going to be nominated? I don't think she will.

I think she'll run, hopefully, on a very negative campaign and that will doom her.

And, I'm not a registered Democrat. I'm a registered Independent. I won't be able to vote in the primary here in KY.

[DainBramaged]

211. So, you hate Hillary, but aren't a registered Democrat?

Which means you aren't committed to any Democrat? Cute.:eyes:

[Roland99]

222. Right now, I plan on doing more research on Obama and might volunteer for his campaign

So, take your little rolling eyes and stick 'em! :P

[timtom]

196. We're gonna get flamed big time, but...

I'm on board with you on this. It just seems so freaking obvious she's a bought-and-paid-for shill in the fashion of Lieberman.

[Meshuga]

198. I will be voting for this person if this person wins the nomination

But I will most likely be voting for someone else in the primaries. Saying that Iran is a threat does not mean that she plans on starting a war with Iran.

[DainBramaged]

207. ALL of you Hillary haters are playing into the hands of the Reich-wing

This is what they want. Place a few trolls and lurkers here and start the ball rolling downhill. Who have they targeted? Obama and Clinton, the two candidates they are most afraid of. And they are afraid of Hillary even more because she brings Bill back into politics.

Keep bashing her. We as a beacon of light in the world of Right-wing controlled media are sounding more like them every day, and we're certainly doing their work for them.

[Roland99]

210. AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Yeah, way to win minds there. Insult us all.

Bravo.

Yeah, we're all trolls.

Yeah, I am actually a Freeper at-heart (that's why I have all of those stickers like that on my car - and more on the back window)

Get a grip.

[DainBramaged]

212. No you are ignored, goodbye

[Roland99]

220. Run away! Run away!

:woohoo:

[scarletwoman]

213. What the hell are you talking about? We haven't even had the primary elections yet!

If people want to advocate against certain candidates getting the Democratic Party nomination they are completely within their rights to do so -- AS GOOD DEMOCRATS. How in the world is that "doing the Right-wing's work for them"?

Not wanting either Hillary or Obama to be OUR party's nominee does NOT make someone a bad Democrat!

sw

[Roland99]

221. Careful now. Logic like that will get you... *gasp* ... ignored!

[scarletwoman]

225. Oh NOES! Not THAT! Not IGNORED!

:rofl:

To tell the truth, I would consider it a badge of honor to be on *certain* peoples' ignore lists. It would only bother me to be ignored by someone whose opinions I actually respected.

sw

[Roland99]

233. Hear! Hear!

[leftwingnut]

223. I agree.

She's Campaigning!!! All of 'em pander on the campaign trail...that's what it's all about, we just have to deal with it unfortunately.

I'm a Dean man at heart and I don't agree with Clinton on a lot of issues, Iraq Invasion for example, however, I want to WIN. I'm going with whomever is most electable. Period. And right now, to me, Clinton as the most electable.

Next choices:
Vilsac
Richardson

Actually I like those two more than Clinton...but...risky. We must win in 2008.

[scarletwoman]

208. I will do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent her from being the Dem nominee.

And I would hope that all anti-war progressives will do the same. We need a groundswell of people across the country to loudly and persistantly declare that they will NOT support a corporate-owned war mongerer.

We need to make it clear to the media and the power brokers that we will NOT accept a Hillary candidacy as a fait accompli.

sw

[DainBramaged]

232. HAHAHAHAH everything in your power, that's funny

I'm sure you'll vote for the Reich-winger if she is nominated. Hate knows no bounds. :scared:

[scarletwoman]

234. You're hysterical. No, really.

Working to prevent a Hillary nomination (which presumes that some OTHER Democrat WILL get the nomination) = "hate"?!?!

What color is the sky in your world?

[joe_b]

218. I like Clark

From what I've read, he is flat out against attacking Iran. That shows balls and a lot of common sense. I can vote for that. Edwards is like Hillary -- "all options are on the table."

When watching WWII documentaries, the thing I'm always struck by is how the survivors, almost to a person, say "we must never let this happen again." They've seen firsthand the evils of war and they understand that you simply have to avoid it at all cost. Neither Hillary nor Edwards show that kind of understanding. They are way too casual about war, of course neither one has ever served in a war or in the military. And it shows. It showed up in their IRW vote and now in these "all options on the table" statements.

[Tinksrival]

229. I agree completely.

Wes Clark is the only choice for me. The only voices of reason out there are Clark and Gore and of course Dennis. They speak from the heart. They are not out there triangulating. Hill is going to start swinging left to win the primaries, "I will end this war"......yeah right! And trial lawyers are better actors than most in Tinseltown. Obama needs more time. I just want the smartest most experienced this country has to offer to get us out of this mess. I have three children and this is very serious for their future.

Welcome

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

228. I voted for her as Sen in her first run & after she voted for the IWR I feel as if I have blood

on my hands.

I pulled the lever this past November for every Dem on the ticket but her.

[Madspirit]

230. Blame

Just like I partly blame Nader and everyone who voted for him, for the Republican in office and all who have died at his hands, I will blame, (and hate), anyone who doesn't vote for the Democratic nominee, this time.
There is more at stake here than the war in Iraq. There are people in poverty, homeless people, uninsured people, people with NO health care, gay folks who need some rights, PEOPLE DYING IN OUR OWN STREETS, etc. I will vote for the Democrat because these people...WHO ALSO MATTER...will be in better hands.
If you don't vote for the Democrat just go change your standing. Admit you're as evil and ego-centric as a Republican. Confession is good for you.
Madspirit

[sweetheart]

231. Nor will i, i'm voting Gore/Clark '08

On the flat-earth world of american politics, i don't believe
anyone else of the lot has come to the deep deep global realization
that we need from an american president.. both gore and clark are
the most world-wise of the lot, IMO, and we need that on the table.

Hillary comes off not genuine, oddly not learning the lesson gore
has taken to heart that makes him the stalking horse indeed.

[joe_b]

235. You know, that Gore Clark combo

would be pretty tough to beat. Also Clark/Obama or Gore/Obama. I would say Obama/Clark, but Obama at this point looks a little too green. But by next year at this time, he might look like a seasoned veteran. Anyway, any of those tickets would be great.

If Gore comes in, Hillary is going to have to change her position on the war. For the life of me, I can't figure out why she just doesn't say "I made a mistake, I shouldn't have voted for it, I counted on the fact that the President was telling the truth, it's time to get out." And then support a withdrawal plan like Kucinich's. Go figure.

[Moderator]

237. locking

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