Isn't the "articulate" put-down commonly understood?

[Stephanie]

Why is everyone acting as if it's not? I remember recently when Laura remarked that Condi should not attempt the presidency because she was all alone, with no friends or family to support her. Posters here offered that the only insult missing from Laura's remarks was "Bless her heart." A commonly understood insult in the South.

Why are some implicit insults understood and others arguable? "Articulate" is a classic of the genre, the back-handed compliment.

[Lex]

1. I thought so too.

:shrug:

[Karenina]

158. Thanks SO MUCH, Stephanie

for this thread. Your solidarity with those of us who have been on the "bleeding edge" for decades is deeply appreciated. As the "kid" (see reference w-a-a-y downthread) who first integrated the school back in the 50's, I am grateful to you for your openness to my experiences AND to hearing what I and so many others have to say about them as adults. Thank you for your insistence that we are EQUAL PARTNERS in any discussion.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. Barbara Jordan spoke perfect English.

She didn't put up with slang from her students at the LBJ School for Public Policy in Austin, either.

[Lex]

4. Of course she did.

nt

[REP]

15. Jordan was Eloquent, Articulate and Meticulous

And I mean each of those adjectives in their full meaning! She was wonderful!

[treestar]

29. Well according to some people on this board, you just said a racist thing

Don't you know that by saying Jordan was eloquent, articulate and meticulous, that just because she was black, you automatically added in an unread "for a back woman."

Oh and your statement is sexist, too, because she was a woman too!:sarcasm:

[Karenina]

113. It's AMAZING to me that you have received

so many "articulate" replies to your one-track posts and have been unable to sincerely consider ANY OF THEM.

[The Traveler]

3. One thing is for certain

Obama is a hell of a lot more articulate than Biden!

:rofl:

[lvx35]

35. Hey isn't that a hate crime?

Calling black people articulate? You'd better watch out, the way people are framing it around here you'd think it had nothing to do with everything else Biden said, its just the word "articulate".

[The Traveler]

38. Next time someone calls me "articulate"

I'll know it is just because I'm a long haired white dude, recognize it is a put down, and smack them across the head!

:rofl:

Still, let's face it, Obama has a command of language that puts most politicians to shame. Jeeze, most of these guys can't put together a complete sentence without breaking into a sweat. Damn straight Obama is articulate. And (oh my!) he is even capable of independent thought!!!!!

[lvx35]

41. He is, a great man, a brilliant speaker.

that's why he's actually able to run for president with a shorter than normal political background.

[The Traveler]

44. Yeah

I haven't committed to anyone yet, but I would have to say Obama and Edwards are the two leading contenders for my vote and support so far.

Obama radiates a strength of character I find difficult to resist. I trust him in his intentions. I need to see more about his policies and how he goes about formulating him. I like what I have seen so far. This might not be his year ... but I predict he will be a potent and positive factor in American politics for a long time.

And then again, this might very well be his year!

[lvx35]

45. I like his youth and optimism, to be honest.

I think that could be just what we need, somebody who isn't jaded, somebody who's willing to stand up for what we really believe in without compromise. He certainly brings something to the primaries, though I will probably stand behind Clark this election.

[The Traveler]

46. I can certainly respect that

I was a Clarkinista in 2003. Has Clark really jumped into the ring? I keep hearing rumors.

[lvx35]

52. I've heard he has

but its just rumors too.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Because they're lying. Duh....

(To my fellow white folks - I'll take the race-traitor albatross for you all - you're free go on pretending to be clueless, and slam me for blowing your cover.)

[Katherine Brengle]

6. I honestly didn't know that until this week --

although when explained it does make sense to me.

I guess the catch is that "articulate" isn't something one should feel the need to point out in a public figure - it's sort of a requirement of the field - therefore, feeling the need to mention it implies that you did not expect the person to have such a quality... which is in turn insulting...

Maybe Biden is just an idiot - we've seen it before. But either way, he screwed up it seems.

[treestar]

24. A requirement in the field! LOL, how did Chimpy get through?

It's no longer much of a requirement.
Tune in to any Senate or Congressional Hearing. It's not a "requirement" at all and not even possessed by most politicians.

[Katherine Brengle]

36. It should be then lol.

[Rex]

7. Maybe some insults are regional and people not from the area

just don't get it. I am from South Texas and can HEAR her voice (in my head) saying, 'bless her heart'. Not sure everyone has experienced that certain backhanded compliment.

Okay...time to Zzzzzzz.

[bananas]

8. Uh-oh - I actually mean it when I say someone is articulate

Some people are extremely clear when they express themselves (unlike me).
I hope people don't think I've been insulting them.

[REP]

28. "Articulate" Is Not as Highly Loaded As Other Words

When it's used primarily to describe a black speaker, it usually means "sounds white." Sometimes, as I posted below, it's just laziness on the part of the person using it - they've heard it so often, they've forgotten there are other words that may mean more precisey what they mean - eloquent, effective, lucid, etc. And, of course, there are those who knows what it means and use it to express just that: some who speaks clearly. But when it's grouped in with other left-handed compliments, as it was in Biden's comment yesterday, its use becomes a little suspect. In Biden's case, I do suspect laziness more than overt, flaming racism, mosty due to his history of really lazy speech (ie, filching a Welsh politician's speech as his own!).

[lvx35]

39. Can't you hear the racism in your own writing?!?!?!

Dictionary: articulate (comparative more articulate, superlative most articulate)

1. clear, effective
2. especially, speaking in a clear or effective manner

You: "When it's used primarily to describe a black speaker, it usually means "sounds white."

therefore, by your reasoning we can conclude that to be a clear effective speaker means to "sound white".

Its the same buried racism that lies behind all these arguments which claim words have different meanings based on the race they are describing. Bullshit. 'articulate' is a complement meaning what it says in the dictionary, it has nothing to do with "sounding white"

[REP]

49. You Left Out The 'Sarcasm' Emoticon When Typing All That Punctuation

Yes, I'm the only person who's ever thought that 'articulate' when used to describe a back speaker is a back-handed compliment (for those who thought there was something sinister about my use of 'left-handed compliment'). "Doesn't sweat much for a fat girl" is also a totally positive thing to say, with nothing implied.

[hfojvt]

48. did you really mean there

to insult people who are left-handed? I can assure you that my left-handed compliments are stronger than my right-handed ones. Just like my left hook.

The only thing that seemed strange in Biden's comment was 'clean'. Also, it was tied together to make it sound like previous black candidates have not had those qualities. Sorta when I was watching CNN and they said that they would talk about how homeland security was interested in four men who came into America, but first ...
Only the announcer said it without a comma so it sounded like those four had entered the US butt first. Biden, otoh, had a longish pause that was not put into the transcripts.

[REP]

50. Nothing Sinister About Me Using "Left-Handed Compliment"

I simpy used a phrase derived from main gauche, a dagger carried in the left hand whose attack was usually not foreseen.

Edit: French syntax

[Gormy Cuss]

106. I beg to differ.

It's completely "sinister."
;)

sin·is·ter :
etymology: Middle English sinistre, from Anglo-French senestre on the left, from Latin sinistr-, sinister on the left side, unlucky, inauspicious

[The Straight Story]

9. Biden needs to clean up his white-american act, may I suggest:

[REP]

10. Yes and No

I agree that "articulate," more often than not, is code for "doesn't sound black."

I also think it's used for both black and white candidates out of sloppiness; it seems that many times when 'articulate' is used, what is meant is 'eloquent.' Articulate means doesn't mumble (more or less) and eloquent means more than that, but 'articulate' sounds neato so it gets overused.

Note I am not denying it's too often used to refer to 'nice things about my black friend,' such as Colin Powell and others (I really got tired of hearing how 'articulate' Powell is during Powellmania).

edited to close quotes.

[Katherine Brengle]

13. I would have to say that Obama is one of the most -eloquent- speakers I've

had the pleasure of listening to in my lifetime - he has it in him to be a great orator in US history.

[REP]

18. I Agree; Eloquent Should Be Used To Describe Him

I haven't caught Obamania, but he is a talented writer and speaker.

[pampango]

77. Obama is indeed eloquent, but why is "eloquent" less of a

racist term than "articulate" apparently is?

[Katherine Brengle]

111. Okay, nevermind, he's absolutely nothing.

Since anything anyone might say about him is now racist, nothing can be said.

For the record, eloquent, afaik, does not have a negative connotation ever. Of course, I could be wrong.

[bananas]

17. I have said that Bush isn't articulate

Hope nobody misunderstood, I really was referring to his inability to express himself clearly.

[REP]

21. "Inarticulate" Is Being Polite

Between his inadvertant manglings of the language and his deliberate dissembling, I'd say his speech is a clear as mud.

[ktlyon]

80. fortunately we are spared the true Bush most of the time

Can you tell when he speaks form his own head and when the ear piece voice tells him what to say?

[treestar]

22. And if you don't know the code

You're a racist? Not necessarily.

Isn't it a little sneaky to have a "code" and use it to test white people for unsuspected "racism" that they don't even intend?

It's ridiculous to take a POSITIVE compliment that way. There's a line or a limit to everything. There are real racists out there, who will flat out say Obama should not be president only because he is half black.

[Stephanie]

26. Even if you weren't aware of it Biden defintiely should have known.

No excuse there. Seriously, this is common knowledge. Understood. If Biden called an Asian colleague "Oriental" it would be s similar gaffe. There are things that are just known, that are understood. This is akin to the Democrat/Democratic thing. You can plausibly plead ignorance, but everyone knows you should have known better.

[Beaverhausen]

56. Why do you think Biden should have known?

Seriously. Why would he know that calling someone articulate would be interpreted as an insult?

[Karenina]

127. He's from Delaware.

He's a politician.
He has black constituents.
He has likely interatcted with black people.

[REP]

33. Not What I Wrote

I also wrote about lazy overuse of a word.

[Richard Steele]

11. "Commonly", yes, but apparently not UNIVERSALLY, even here at DU.

:shrug:

[Bucky]

12. Thank you for sharing this articulate post.

And bless your heart. :evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

131. What is with the bless your heart dealie? Just sounds like a stupid sap to me.

[sandnsea]

14. Yes

I've lived in the goddamned sticks of Montana and Oregon since 19-fucking-80 and I knew this. I do not understand these people who live in denial about white racism. Of course it exists. I've got family in St Louis and Little Rock, grew up in California, so I don't even buy the 'not where I live' bullshit. I can possibly understand somebody very young, but anybody over 25 knows this is unacceptable.

[Katherine Brengle]

16. Um, are you kidding?

I'm not in denial about racism, and I had absolutely never heard of this word being used as an insult in my entire life.

Did it ever occur to you that not everyone who doesn't understand it is a raging asshole?

[bananas]

19. Same here. nt

[sandnsea]

34. Are you under 25?

You get a pass. Otherwise, there is no way to have missed this unless you're intentionally obtuse.

Forget the objection from the black community, over and over again.

Forget Chris Rock laying it out quite clearly in his comedy.

Are you telling me that YOU didn't personally notice that white-like African Americans are ALWAYS referred to as 'articulate'?? Have you been running around 'complimenting' black people in that manner? Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Sidney Poitier...

"Articulate is really a shorthand way of describing a black person who isn't too black -- or, rather, who comports with white America's notion of how a black person should come across."

My god - duuuh.

[Katherine Brengle]

37. Eh, okay I am exactly 25 so I will take that pass --

learn something new every day I guess.

[sandnsea]

40. Given

I think it is entirely possible to be young and not have heard as much racist bullshit as some of us who are older. I was reading Hamden's thread earlier where he was talking about being called a pickaninnie (sp) in the 60's. Argh, yikes, I remember my mom calling them cute little chocolate drops. Now she worked very hard to overcome the racism that she grew up with in Missouri - but what a horrible thing to say. I knew at 8 years old it was wrong, nobody ever called me a cute little marshmallow. That's why it's hard for me to believe people don't get a twinge somewhere in their gut about these things. But maybe if you haven't heard quite the kind of racism that used to be common place, you might not 'get it'. Which could be a good thing, as long as you remember older people came up way different.

It's kind of like women's lib - who would have ever thought we'd be fighting birth control again?? I think minorities are ever-vigilant too.

[Katherine Brengle]

42. Good points. nt

[Hardrada]

135. Cute little Marshmallow!!

I'm going to remember that. And use it sometime.

[Beaverhausen]

54. I'm 47 - could you be any more insulting?

I didn't know it was considered a put down.

[sandnsea]

59. It's pure denial

You need to be insulted if you haven't noticed the 'articulate' stamp of approval white people give to African-Americans - which really means not one of those 'uppity' negroes who is going to be ranting about affirmative action and slavery and reparations.

[Beaverhausen]

60. Jesus christ on a trailer hitch

You just can't entertain the idea that some people don't use the word in the racist context that you insist on putting it in, can you? Well, some people use the word as it is intended. It doesn't mean they are racist.

[sandnsea]

63. It 80% of the population does

then the fact that YOU may not, doesn't really mean much now does it? Telling a woman she's pretty is a compliment too - but not when you use it as a key quality of a presidential candidate. Then it's condescending. Quit trying to defend your position and extend some empathy to the perspective of those insulted.

[Beaverhausen]

69. I never said I didn't empathize

I just said it wasn't generally understood.

[Katherine Brengle]

112. Is it really impossible for you to believe that there are individuals out there

who truly DID NOT KNOW THAT THIS WORD WAS USED TO INSULT PEOPLE???

[Karenina]

139. FINE THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW!!!

BUT THEN WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO INSULT THE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO EXPLAIN TO YOU THE CONTEXT OF THE INSULT??? :shrug:

[treestar]

20. I've heard it taken that way before but never understood why

Isn't there something a little weird about taking a positive comment negatively?

And there could be people young enough not to know that this is verboten and to honestly and sincerely mean the compliment.

It is at that level where it seems unfair to people to call them racist for saying something POSITIVE - how do we know what other words lurk out there that will be taken negatively, too?

The point seems to be to have the power over whites, to call them racists at any time. And for no good reason. Why alienate people who are sympathetic?

See, if Biden said he thought Obama was a lousy speaker, that's be racist too, wouldn't it?

This is something that has to be TAKEN negatively to be considered an insult.

Also Senator Obama is half white. Senator Biden was "insulting" the white race, therefore, as much as the black race.

[Stephanie]

23. wow.

I don't know where to start. How's this:

What if I said, you're a pretty good dancer, for a white guy?

[treestar]

27. "for a black guy" is read into the "articulate" word

Joe did not say "for a black guy" now did he? YOU assumed it. And everyone who assumes it is the one bringing the race into the question.

If someone says Hillary is smart, do you read into it "for a woman?"

Geez, man, we can never say anything nice about anybody, except for white men!

And you know what, if I thought a black candidate did not speak well, spoke no better than Chimpy, I'd be a racist for pointing out his inarticulateness, wouldn't I?

This is so unreasonable it wows me.

[Richard Steele]

30. Yes. Hence the OP's use of the phrase "commonly understood". nm

[Solon]

55. You really don't understand, do you?

Context is everything. If someone you just met, who is black, sees you out clubbing and says "Wow, you can really dance." in an incredulous voice, what is implied there?

[goodhue]

70. yes, it is

that is the very point that seems lost on defenders of articulate as innocent complement

[bananas]

47. I took a dance class once

The instructor told me I wasn't articulating the movements properly.
What did it really mean?

[KenHodson]

64. He meant...

Bless your heart!

[Zorra]

25. I don't understand; that was such a nice thing that Sen. Biden said

about Sen. Obama.

What's all the fuss about?
:shrug:
:eyes:
sarcasm

[lvx35]

31. NO! Its not an insult in itself.

I understand the problem with the overall tone of Biden's comment, but it is not generally an insult to call anybody articulate, regardless of race, class, gender or creed.

[Karenina]

129. Why are you UNWILLING to accept

that those of us who have, as people of colour, travelled in elite, predominately white circles have felt the sting of the backhand slap? Are you suggesting that we're ALL just making it up, too stupid to accept a "compliment" or in cahoots to bring a good white man down???

So, now we come to Biden's use of the term "mainstream".
http://afro-netizen.com/ (Feb. 1)

(Click on the article title if you find there are blank spaces in the text. It will refresh.)

<snip>

Mainstream is one of those funny words like love and racism, because everyone seems to have their own definitions. For me, my sense is that what Biden wanted to say was that Obama is an assimilitated negro. And the set of criteria for this assessment are Obama's image as non-ministerial Black politician who is smart, clean-cut, telegenic, broadly charismatic, light-skinned, well-educated and one who speaks standard English-speaking as well or better than most whitefolk (i.e., the all too familiar racist compliment: "he's sooo articulate!"). This, on top of the fact frequently noted fact that his mother was white (and from the heartland) and ostensibly may have a split racial allegiance or cultural identity that many hope transcends race entirely.

However, this is not an image or political identity that Obama has to verbalize, but is attributed out of the neurosis of racism that compells its victims to twist reality in such a way that conforms to their socio-political dementia.

Within seconds of ending his seminal public address at the Democratic Convention in Boston 3 years ago, a fellow (white) blogger standing next to me in the nose-bleed section there exaltingly sighed, "He's the Tiger Woods of politics!" A revealing comment meant as compliment and taken (by me) as an insult; code for: he's not really Black. He's just like one of us, only with a slightly darker complexion. He's an exception because he's exceptional.

Blackfolk, just like other oppressed people in this society, are expert in deciphering linguistic and non-verbal codes. And the simple fact remains that to many (but not all) of us, Biden's initial remarks, lengthy protestations and rote genuflection to the arbiters of racial correctness evince the most common strain of unintentional racism that make us question the motivations of the most stalwart white supporters of Obama.

[nam78_two]

32. I am not white and honestly I didn't realise "articulate" by itself was a put-down

I agree that Biden's statement, taken in its entirety was offensive("clean"?:eyes:). But, "articulate" by itself I always just thought of as referencing someone who could convey their thoughts/ideas well (unlike Biden).

Like I mentioned in another thread, I always thought of articulate in terms of liberal arts majors vs. science majors :).
As a science/engineering major, I always felt that the liberal arts majors were much more 'articulate'/had better communication skills..
Of course I am only 27 and maybe 20 years ago things were different..

[Quantess]

155. I'm guessing

the implication is that, for a black man to be articulate, is noteworthy.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Coded words.

There are many things in the English language that can have different meanings depending on situation, background, education level, and a variety of other factors. The use of 'articulate' when speaking about someone who is African-American (or other ethnicity not described as "white") is what I call "accidental racism." What I mean is that the person may or may not understand how the term is racist or offensive, but with out the 'race" factor, it is not offensive. I had no idea about the Biden 'gaffe' because I didn't really read the threads about it, so I was really confused. The other word seeming to cause issues is "clean." I can't speak for him, but I feel Biden was meaning that Obama had no "skeletons in the closet," i.e. he was "politically" clean.

"Why are some implicit insults understood and others arguable?" Well, many seem to think that racism or bigotry has to be "in your face" to be offensive. When bigotry is more dangerous is when it is disguised in seemingly non-offensive fashion, and it is then it becomes "arguable." That is what we are seeing with this situation. "Articulate" is not a bad descriptor of someone's speaking abilities. However, it has been used (and continues to be used) as a "back-handed compliment" to those persons who are not white; it takes on two meanings: the person "sounds white" (acceptable), or the person is educated (surprising). Whether Biden meant it as a 'slam' is debatable; I don't think he did, but it wasn't a very smart thing to say.

People say things like this all the time and don't realize the greater meaning. I was once told that I was "amazingly generous for a Jewish person." The person really meant it as a compliment and was horrified when I explained by stating it in that fashion, she was resorting to the age-old myth that "Jews are cheap and stingy."

That said, I have a question for you. Where did you hear that "bless his/her heart" was "commonly understood insult in the South"? I was born and reared in the South and I never heard it was an insult, unless you said something like, "Lord, she is so stupid. Bless her heart, she doesn't have the sense G-d gave a goose!" And, then, it isn't an insult as much as it is pity (well, I guess the last part would be insulting).

[Hardrada]

136. Or: She has such a pretty face. Too bad she let herself go!

Bless her heart.

[HuffleClaw]

51. this is simply getting out of hand

but its some funny to witness.

[Beaverhausen]

53. No- I thought it was a compliment. And since when is "bless her heart" a put down?

jesus christ, I just can't keep up.

[Solon]

57. I'm assuming you never have been in a multi-racial relationship?

I'm a white guy who has dated non-white women of many different races. Now, at least my parents are enlightened, but some former friends would say shit like "She's so well spoken." one of these "friends" even said to one woman I went out with, "You speak English so well." I almost punched him in the face.

[Beaverhausen]

62. No- but I'm a female musician

and I've been told I "play great for a girl" and that I "play like a guy."

You know what, I don't get mad.

A comment like that is about the person making it, not about me.

[sandnsea]

65. You let people get away with that?

Well then enjoy being a doormat I guess. I'd never let that pass, not for one second. I can't for the life of me figure out why you would. And just because other people confront those sort of 'compliments' doesn't mean you can pretend they aren't insults just because you don't want to confront them.

[Beaverhausen]

66. My victory is in the fact that I just keep on playing and don't let the...

...attitudes of other people get me down. Good god, if I did that I WOULD be a doormat.

Why should I expend any energy confronting someone who really doesn't matter to me? I don't base my opinion of myself on what others say about me. I don't give away my power to others.

[sandnsea]

78. Okedoke

Just keep telling yourself you're winning I guess. If you don't mind living in a world that snickers and scoffs at you behind your back, that's up to you.

[Beaverhausen]

81. It's called reality. Fortunately most people just dig the music

How am I not winning? I play my music and don't let people bother me. I will not be a victim.

I know my talent and my strength. You have no clue what you are talking about.

[sandnsea]

86. No seriously

Go be one of the boys. I totally get it. A lot of women think equality is being 'one of the boys'. It's a compliment. Being cool and not rocking the boat with that feminism bullshit, guys dig that. Whatever it takes to be accepted so you can play.

[Beaverhausen]

89. What do you want me to do? Shrivel up in a corner and cry?

I am treated as an equal by everyone I perform with-male and female. I am happy with my music.

If you want to be bothered by this it's your problem. You be the whiny victim. I'm being a strong woman.

[sandnsea]

95. You're accepting a bigoted society

You're afraid to truly confront it, because you know you'll get ostracized for being 'difficult' and what again, a 'whiny victim', maybe having a little 'pms' trouble. You tell yourself you're being too smart and strong to not let small minds get you down. In truth, you're a coward because it takes standing up to those small minds to stop them in the future.

[KenHodson]

98. enough of your bullshit, tough guy/whiney victim

Cowardice would be if she were offended and did not act on it.
Strength is not being offended in the first place.

You are the whiney victim, sandnsea, and I have to assume you are about as much fun to hang around as a bowl full of turds.

[omega minimo]

118. Hey Tough Guy, you just victimized SnS with "as much fun... as a bowl of turds"

"Cowardice would be if she were offended and did not act on it. Strength is not being offended in the first place."

Says who? MEN? Telling women they're "whiny" or "playing the victim" if they object to attitudes and language that are clearly putdowns that keep women "in their place" i.e. relative to men, compared to males as the standard or "normal."

Enough of YOUR bullshit.


sandnsea is right and you are wrong. "Strength" is finding a way to let people know what they said is unacceptable. Beaverhausen can do that with her playing and also with her words. She doesn't need male bullies and phony "feminists" shaming her into thinking it's "whiny" to tell people to quit with the condescending insults.

Enough of YOUR bullshit.

Welcome to DU :evilfrown:

[Beaverhausen]

100. If I was accepting it, I wouldn't still be performing would I?

Did you ever hear this phrase- "Be the change you wish to see in the world"

I am doing what I want to do. No man or men is/are stopping me with their comments and their attitudes. I am doing what I want to do. I don't accept anyone telling me women can't go out there and be as good as men.

If I spent any time letting small minded people get me down, if I bothered to confront them, I would give them way too much power. They have none.

I'm through with this discussion. You aren't worth any more of my energy either.

[sandnsea]

104. You're accepting it in order to play

That's no change at all. The minute a woman demands that people stop making bigoted remarks to her, she'll be ostracized and the truth of your 'principles' will be seen, 'no change in the world'. I imagine you don't want to talk to anybody who isn't buying the bullshit you've told yourself for 20 years.

[omega minimo]

117. Who convinced you that challenging being told you "play great for a girl" = "being a whiny victim"?

Do you see the underhanded game being played on you there? Do you ever think that one through? sandnsea is right, everything sandnsea said here is worth you considering...... and no, "shrivel up in a corner and cry" would not do it. It would take doing what you're doing and going a step further-- finding a way to stay strong and point out to someone that you play great. Period. "Great for a girl" or "play like a guy" are insults. Clueless maybe, but insults. They ARE taking away your power. Straighten them out. THAT takes courage and is a sign of real strength, not "whiny victimhood." I appreciate your attitude about doing what you're doing and staying strong in that. But don't let anyone fool you into thinking that speaking up for yourself (and others) by challenging that condescending attitude means being a "vicitm." That is a total mindfuck to shame you into not speaking out.


"Play great for a girl" and "play like a guy" would be like saying,

"You speak clearly for a black" or "You talk like a white."


:think: :yourock:

[KenHodson]

67. ?????

Um, yeah, she can act as dignified as she damn well pleases. Not being offended is not a weakness, it's a STRENGTH.
And why are you on this thread - insulting people of all things.

[Solon]

84. You know, talking isn't the same as being able to play an instrument...

Imagine if someone said that you walk better than a 2 year old. Is that really a compliment?

[Beaverhausen]

91. oh my god- this is getting absurd

:rofl:

Public speaking is not the same as "talking." It is an art and everyone is NOT good at it - see our president. I'm sure you'd agree that he is not articulate.

[Solon]

93. I'm not even talking about public speaking, I was talking about my personal experiences...

You were comparing YOUR TALENT at music with an ESSENTIAL skill that most people learn by the age of 3 or so.

[Beaverhausen]

94. I thought we were discussing the word "articulate" being used to describe Obama

Your post does show examples of extreme racism, as my post shows examples of extreme misogynistic views. I was just saying that comments like that show that the person saying them is the one with the issues. I chose not to let them bother me.

[Solon]

99. I was showing examples of how a "compliment" wasn't really a compliment...

Hence why Biden, if not a dumbass, is really insensitive to what such compliments mean to those who do not share either his ancestry or history.

[Beaverhausen]

102. Well, there are insensitive people everywhere- of every color and sex.

He, as well as a lot of other people, sure learned something this week.

[fishwax]

141. A comment like that is about the person making it, not about me.

which is why people are criticizing Biden.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. That has been my experience...

with the world "articulate" when is it used in regards to black people. I'm white and I have heard that usage my entire life. The sentance would go something like this: "Kevin is so articulate..." and then there was the unsaid but completely understood '...for a black boy' that went with it.

Sadly, my grandparents were from OK and KS and they were ignorant racists. Moving to San Francisco and living amongst people who were "other" than they forced them to rethink their ideas on race, but Growing up I heard the "articulate" thing all the time from them and others in their families. They were just always so "surprised" that a black man or woman could speak in anything other than "Gone With The Wind" patois.

It's historical usage when it comes to blacks is very sad, because there are times when the word in it true usual is entirely appropriate for a black speaker, but it is just too loaded to use.

[KenHodson]

61. No, it is not "commonly" understood

Hell, people spend a lot of time and energy figuring out if they should be offended or not; probably one of the silliest endevours one could do. It really gets weird when you try to think for someone else and wonder if they in fact should be offended.
IMHO (and I am guilty of the above) - when I am offended I let someone know. If I find myself thinking about if I am offended or not, I can safely assume that I am not. And I have given up being offended in place of others for that is particularly tiresome.

[goodhue]

68. apparently not

I find it pretty surprising and disheartening.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. When It's Used As A Put-Down, Sure. But In Politics It Is An EXTREMELY Commonly Used Term To

describe political candidates of any race, gender or otherwise.

Extremely common. Amazingly common. Unbelievably common.

It is that overwhelmingly common and benign use of the term within the political arena as to why I don't believe it to have been used in any racial way whatsoever in this case. It's all about context and objectivity.

[goodhue]

74. So how about some real world examples of its common usage?

I honestly don't recall any white politician being publicly lauded for being articulate. Generally it goes without saying.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. Then You Aren't Paying Attention. Just Take 2 Minutes On Google. You'll Find A Brazillion Examples.

It's used all the time. Allllllll the time.

[goodhue]

82. Using Google, I find this example . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/19/freespeech/main2020911.shtml

* * *

OK, fine, I think the war in Iraq is a disaster, I think this administration has created more anti-American feeling in the world than we’ve seen in my lifetime, and I look forward to the day when they have to pack up and go home. And that certainly includes Condoleezza Rice.

That’s the way I feel — until I hear some commentator describe her as, quote, articulate, which is code for a black person who speaks standard English. Excuse me, you were expecting the Secretary of State to be inarticulate?

That's when I get this involuntary twitch and I want to defend Condoleezza Rice — when she's patronized, the way black pioneers in all walks of life have been patronized. Look, it may be wrongheaded foreign policy, but Condoleezza Rice is making it.

Condoleezza Rice is a major, major player in this administration. So call her whatever you want, but don't call her a token or a puppet. And please don't call her "articulate."

* * *

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goodhue]

90. I'm pretty aware, thank you

Clearly more aware than Biden, who if he had been using Google would have not used the word articulate. Use of Google reveals this prescient column from January 25th, more than five full day before Biden put foot in mouth . . .

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/01/25/barack-obama-is-awb-articulate-while-black/

About This Post
Written by Philip Arthur Moore
January 25th, 2007 at 8:00 am

Barack Obama is AWB: articulate while black
by guest contributor Philip Arthur Moore, originally published at TheThink

Why do I keep finding news articles about Barack Obama that conspicuously mention how “articulate” he is?

Reality check: ‘Barry’ Obama attended Columbia University, Harvard Law School, and was the first ever black American to be elected president of the Harvard Law Review. His educational biography is impressive, to say the least, and when he stormed into the national spotlight at the 2004 Democratic National Convention (part 1, part 2), we should have taken note of how “articulate” Obama was with the English language (his native language, by the way) and moved on. Instead, writers, taking adjectives from the same play book and arranging them just slightly differently, are harping on how well Barack Obama can speak about as much as they harp on how well George W. Bush mangles the English language (which, incidentally, is also his native tongue).

* * *

http://www.racialicious.com/2007/01/25/barack-obama-is-awb-articulate-while-black/

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. Pretty Aware Is Not Good Enough. Accurately Aware Is. Furthermore, According To Your Original

reply to me, you were not aware enough; hence the need for your question.

You can keep posting other's opinions that correlate well to your view but that is utterly useless when undertaking this exercise. Utterly useless.

The point of the exercise was for you to become aware, since your question indicated otherwise, as to just how often the word is used within the political arena towards politicians of ANY race, gender or otherwise.

You seem to have trouble accepting that. Not my problem. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an amazingly commonly used term when describing political candidates. And like I said; a quick scan of google will make this fact readily apparent to you, though based on your subsequent posts it appears you are more interested in op-ed pieces trashing use of the term rather than fact based analysis of how often it is used to begin with.

But guess what... Facts trump your op-ed's. And it is a hard cold fact that this is an extremely common term within the political arena having nothing to do with race.

[goodhue]

103. I'm not aware of articulate being used to describe any other democratic presidential candidates

You asserted it was commonplace, and I suggested you back that up with an example. You chose not to, asserting Google was all I would need. My use of Google confirmed my prior awareness that using articulate to describe a black politician is commonly taken as an insult, and I provided two examples. You have yet to provide any facts whatsoever to back up your opinion.

[mondo joe]

108. You've got to be kidding.

Try Google again.

"Edwards is young, smart, articulate and a good Southerner with moderate tendencies and a heart for traditional Democratic issues."
http://www.clarionledger.com/misc/blogs/dhampton/2006/12/john-edwards.html

"Instead, almost all the coverage was founded on the theme of Edwards as an articulate, appealing, and energetic political force."
http://www.reason.com/news/show/33655.html

"John Edwards is bright and articulate and really, really youthful."
http://dir.salon.com/topics/john_edwards/index.html?ti=27

"He’s charming, he’s smart and he’s articulate."
http://www.wikidemocrats.com/page/John+Edwards

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. It Is Commonplace. You Obviously Spent No Time Looking For Anything Other Than Op-Ed Pieces That

suit your agenda in this discussion. Would take you one minute to prove yourself wrong. Fact is, you are unwilling to do that and just simply want to continue holding onto the false assertion that when it is used, it is used racially.

It is a hard, cold FACT that it is an EXTREMELY common term used within the political arena.

[piedmont]

110. Pardon my butting in here, but "articulate" *is* used to describe other Democratic candidates

From a two-minute, half-assed Google search using the search phrase "Clinton articulate" I got this, for example:

"Lorna Bingham of Des Moines said she was impressed by how articulate Clinton was. "I didn't realize she was such a good speaker," she said. But she said she is far from making up her mind. "I'm up in the air," she said, declaring that she is considering Clinton, former Iowa governor Tom Vilsack and former North Carolina senator John Edwards."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/01/27/BL2007012701591.html


Here's a John Edwards example.
"The charismatic, passionate and articulate former U.S. Sen. John Edwards is speaking out about the need to lift more Americans out of poverty and into the middle class."
http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/060302/edwards.shtml

Here's a Wesley Clark example.
"And then there is his personal profile. If you were casting the role of President for a Hollywood movie, you couldn’t do better than General Wesley Clark. Plain-spoken and yet extremely articulate, charismatic and yet firm, Clark looks and acts like an ideal American President."
http://www.princeton.edu/~in/nov2003/clark.htm


Context is what makes "articulate" insulting, not the word itself.

[jeffrey_X]

121. BUT he prefaced it by saying "African American"....that is the deal breaker...

he fucked up, that's the bottom line.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

122. No It Isn't.

Maybe to the narrow and closed minded it is, but not in reality.

[ktlyon]

72. It is so hard to believe what one word can do

wish it was something better than "clean"
I think he meant clean as far a record on issues a clean slate so to speak, a canvass unpainted

So much about nothing

It does get his name out there a little longer.

[mondo joe]

73. Jut because something COULD be a put down, doesn't necessarily

mean it is.

Some comments are unquestionably put downs.

Some could be, but might not be - depends on the intent of the speaker.

[Beaverhausen]

75. I still need someone to explain "Bless her heart"

I say it because my grandmother used to say it and I like the phrase.
Why is this one a put down?

[Stephanie]

125. The explanation is in this thread >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2923570#2923662

[lonestarnot]

134. Ick what a sappy thread. I hate people that can't just say what the

fuck they mean. Bless my ass South! South has no balls.

[lonestarnot]

132. Heh. Ditto.

[Buzz Clik]

79. Not necessarily. No one can deny that Obama is articulate.

Calling an one basketball player "athletic" and another a "smart player" by no means suggests that the athletic player is an idiot of the smart player has no skills. It's simply a comment on their dominant attributes.

However, when a broadcaster consistently and exclusively labels Black players as athletic and white players as smart, then there is more than meets the eye.

The rest is all bullshit.

[sniffa]

83. yes, it is commonLy understood

it's ridicuLous we have to have these discussions, and it's insuLting to hear DUers defend it.

[KenHodson]

88. You are "insulted" because this thread exists?

I made this point earlier. You cannot possibly be insulted because of what you perceive as the lack of wisdom in others!

Would it be insulting to you if I didn't know the reason all of your L's are capitalized?
Sorry in advance if you are!!!!!!!!!!

[Lady President]

85. I never knew

I don't consider myself ignorant to racism in America, but I didn't know that "articulate" was an insult. I took it to mean "well spoken" and nothing more. Last week I posted that I thought Clinton, Edwards and Obama were all bright and articulate. Apparently, I was insulting Obama. Was it still a compliment to Clinton, even though she's a woman? What about Edwards? Is it okay to call white men articulate? So many rules....

Also, to answer some of the questions in this thread: I'm 35, white, from Ohio, and I have spent years in interracial relationships.

[Virginia Dare]

92. I understood it...

perhaps Joe Biden and the chimp didn't? :shrug:

[piedmont]

96. Just like "articulate," it's the context that counts with "bless his/her heart"

I think people are confusing the context with the word or phrase. "Articulate" most certainly is a compliment if it's meant sincerely-- who wouldn't want to be thought of as articulate? But if you say it sarcastically or in a way that implies that you're surprised about it given the person's race, gender, etc., it's a slap. Biden's calling Obama the FIRST mainstream black figure who was articulate was insulting because of what it implied about all other mainstream black candidates.

Similarly, "bless her heart" can be either a genuine expression of affection, or realllllly condescending. If I said "My grandmother's feeling sick, bless her heart," it's certainly not meant as an insult. But if I said "Cindy thinks she can learn calculas as well as the boys, bless her heart," it's condescending.

[Solon]

101. Exactly!

If Biden said something more along the lines of "Obama is an excellent public speaker and a breath of fresh air." we wouldn't even be having this debate. Instead, he had to insert race, as if it even matters in regards to skill.

[piedmont]

107. Yep.

It's not "articulate" that's the problem-- politicians are described as "articulate" all the time. It's the obvious suggestion that no other black leaders have ever been articulate or clean or bright that's the glaringly stupid and insulting remark. Biden should stick being a senator.

[omega minimo]

119. Dingdingding: Piedmont nailed it and Solon undercored it. Everybody read these posts......

Your point about "articulate" is spot on and the answer to the kind of puzzled OP about how could people not 'get' this......

Also, the problematic context of the whole quote was "The First" and that's the point you're making about "suggestion that no other black leaders have ever been articulate or clean or bright...."

I can believe that he didn't mean it as an insult but this is a good example of how clueless white people can be and not even realize (or accept) when they stick a foot in it.

IMHO the word "clean" was most bizarre after "first."

:wellput:

[Nikki Stone1]

105. Because some of us had literally no idea. I consider "articulate" a compliment to me, especially in

this part of the nation (SoCal) where no one bothers to be careful about their articulation. There are some Southern California kids (white, native English speakers) who are so damned careless about the way they speak that I can't understand what they are trying to tell me.

In reference to politics, I put this on another thread:

..."articulate" is a word used in reference to politics, especially when someone is not typically in the limelight or is new to the political game in general (or to a particular level of involvement, like a presidential election.) For someone to call Senator Kennedy "articulate" might be insulting because he's been around for a long time and has proved himself time and time again, but to call Jim Webb "articulate" IS a compliment, since he is fairly new to the national political arena and gave an amazing rebuttal to the SOTU address, at a level unusual for a fairly new face, at least nationally. My take on the word "articulate" in reference to Obama is that he is being judged as a "new" national presence, not as a "black" one. (I am not counting Biden here because that whole quote was problematic.)

Now, I am not saying that your observation about the use of the word "articulate" is wrong, I am just saying that lots of people are not aware that it is an insult.

[Karenina]

114. The "issue" on DU is that many are informing

that others BECOME AWARE, only to be confronted with white denial and oh-too-familiar "WE WILL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT."

[Katherine Brengle]

115. No offense, but why should I take something a certain way simply bc I

am told to?

Would you accept it if the majority view was that Biden's remark was NOT racist, and you believed it was? Would you simply agree to toe the line bc a bunch of people thought differently than you?

I didn't know we were at Free Republic here.

[Karenina]

120. Wow Katherine. Just WOW!

:wow: Yes, YOU are a part of the "majority" and dominant culture. I am not a "bunch of people." I am a human being who has experienced the ravages of racism attempting to show you the view from another corner. Thanks for yours, though.

[Nikki Stone1]

124. I never used the word "issue". I just gave you were I was coming from

And I had no idea that "articulate" could be an insult to an up and coming politician. I did not realize that for some people it is a way to be racist without being overtly racist. But don't paint us all with the same brush. When I say articulate, I mean articulate. And when I hear it in politics, I don't assume anything racial about it. However, I concede your point that some racist types may use it in a coded way. But practically anything can be coded when you're trying to camouflage racism. Sometimes, it's just hard to tell.

I personally find Jim Webb extremely articulate and I wish he were running.

[BlooInBloo]

153. Don't bother - it's a lie in the first place.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

116. Good Post. And Though It Can Be An Insult, In This Case It Wasn't.

[Nikki Stone1]

128. Thanks for actually reading my post

Appreciate it.

[Karenina]

130. Perhaps you misunderstood my reply somehow

or perhaps you see me as one too "inarticulate" to have comprehended your post correctly and my reply as simply an attack which could hardly be interpreted as an effort to move the dialogue further along. I don't know anymore. :shrug:

Of course there's that "mainstream" word. Please allow me to offer you more interpretations of that word. Just so if it ever comes up in the future, you WILL be aware...

So, now we come to Biden's use of the term "mainstream".
http://afro-netizen.com/ (Feb. 1)

(Click on the article title if you find there are blank spaces in the text. It will refresh.)

<snip>

Mainstream is one of those funny words like love and racism, because everyone seems to have their own definitions. For me, my sense is that what Biden wanted to say was that Obama is an assimilitated negro. And the set of criteria for this assessment are Obama's image as non-ministerial Black politician who is smart, clean-cut, telegenic, broadly charismatic, light-skinned, well-educated and one who speaks standard English-speaking as well or better than most whitefolk (i.e., the all too familiar racist compliment: "he's sooo articulate!"). This, on top of the fact frequently noted fact that his mother was white (and from the heartland) and ostensibly may have a split racial allegiance or cultural identity that many hope transcends race entirely.

However, this is not an image or political identity that Obama has to verbalize, but is attributed out of the neurosis of racism that compells its victims to twist reality in such a way that conforms to their socio-political dementia.

Within seconds of ending his seminal public address at the Democratic Convention in Boston 3 years ago, a fellow (white) blogger standing next to me in the nose-bleed section there exaltingly sighed, "He's the Tiger Woods of politics!" A revealing comment meant as compliment and taken (by me) as an insult; code for: he's not really Black. He's just like one of us, only with a slightly darker complexion. He's an exception because he's exceptional.

Blackfolk, just like other oppressed people in this society, are expert in deciphering linguistic and non-verbal codes. And the simple fact remains that to many (but not all) of us, Biden's initial remarks, lengthy protestations and rote genuflection to the arbiters of racial correctness evince the most common strain of unintentional racism that make us question the motivations of the most stalwart white supporters of Obama.

[Nikki Stone1]

133. No, I understood you completely, and I understand your tactics

No matter how many times you put a word in quotes, you can't change the fact that a person never said it or never intended it.

[Karenina]

137. My tactics??? Nikki you've COMPLETELY lost me here.

You said you were not aware of the codespeak.

I replied that that lack of awareness has been an issue on this board.
(obviously the word "issue" set something off. Please explain to me as I have attempted to explain to you). I see you bristling on my monitor and don't quite understand why you're hissing at me.

"No matter how many times you put a word in quotes, you can't change the fact that a person never said it or never intended it."

[Nikki Stone1]

138. I'll assume this response is in good faith.

Look at just this sequence of posts, from my initial response to the OP through this one. There is a really discernible pattern in the way you interact with posters.

[Karenina]

140. Please stop being oblique.

It comes across MUCH LIKE the codespeak I have tried to elucidate.

[Nikki Stone1]

143. This last post is exactly what I am talking about

Take a look at your reaction to me. In my post to you, I suggested that you look at a series of previous posts and try to understand your own way of arguing. Instead of doing what I suggested, you imply, instead, that I am using codespeak (or sound like I am like using codespeak). Essentially, instead of actually trying to look and understand the problem, you accused me--in a coded way of your own--of racist behavior. You're not trying to have a discussion, you're trying to pommel every person who tries to engage you in dialogue with an accusation. That is what I meant by your tactic. Add to that your odd use of quotation marks in your posts answering other people. The words in quotes are your words, not the words of your interlocutor. By putting these words, usually politically loaded, in quotes, you imply that the person dialoguing with you actually said these things or intended to say these things, despite what was actually written.

The tactic of ignoring everything your interlocutor says and attacking instead is very successful on the short term. It usually stops people from interacting with you or from being involved in the general discussion of the issue you are concerned about. Sadly, it discourages real dialogue, and, in the end, makes the situation worse, not better.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

147. ...

:applause:

[Karenina]

150. You are SOOO off base here, I hardly know where to begin

Let's just run this back in slo mo.

In your post #105 you state that you were unaware that the word "articulate" could be problematic.

The communication intent of my post #114 was to explain to that over the course of the past few days MANY OF US who have been treated to the "articulate" backhand slap and have tried to explain have been dismissed out-of-hand, further insulted, and told our understanding is NOT "mainstream." :evilgrin: THAT (issue) is the reason for the numerous threads.

You post #124 reiterates that you didn't know, but you react to the word "issue." You acknowledge that codespeak might exist. In your nex post you allude that YOUR post has FINALLY been properly read and understood.

THAT ruffled my feathers as if you were unaware of "articulate," "mainstream" might also pose a problem. I responded to your snark with a bit of my own while providing you with info that I though you might find interesting.

Then you launch an attack on my communication intent, integrity and assume to instruct me, while accusing me of some dark agenda. RE-READ THE POSTS YOURSELF. They were NOT about YOU using the aforementioned codespeak, rather that your allusions to my communication style being unacceptable were indirect and as such, like codespeak. For you to conclude that I was in any way, shape or for ACCUSING YOU of racist behaviour is so far beyond the pale I can only repeat:



I tell you what. This exchange is making me sick to my stomach. I truly thought we understood each other better than this. I've had a belly full of bullshit the past few days and it's enough now ESPECIALLY from someone I considered a kindred spirit. Roger 10-4. Signing OFF.

[Nikki Stone1]

152. Sorry kid, I did my best

But quite frankly, you are more interested in attacking than in understanding what a person is trying to tell you. Easier to accuse, snark, post bunny and pancake pictures than to actually understand what someone is trying to say.

I'm done. Good luck in life. No hard feelings.

Nikki

[UTUSN]

142. Ding DING DING!!1 for posts #28 & 130.

I seldom read beyond the o.p. of threads with many replies, but did this one, and #s28 started to nail it, and 130 *did* nail it.

#28 set out what the connotation of "articulate" was: That OBAMA "sounds white." Then in 130, was the clincher, that the connotation was that OBAMA was "assimilated." BINGO!!1

That's also what "mainstream" could be taken to mean. Who is NOT "mainstream"?---why, that would be GHETTO BLACKS, RAPPERS, non-Standard-English/SPEAKERS-OF-BLACK-ENGLISH!!1

THAT's what the connotation was, that "articulate" meant OBAMA does not speak BLACK ENGLISH!!1

To the many posters who said "articulate" is not a put-down: BIDEN used it SPECIFICALLY about a Black. Add the words "mainstream" and then to the word "clean" add clean-CUT, and it all adds up to, "This is a Black LIKE US-Whites."

It's a LOADED statement full of CREEPING CONNOTATIONS. What it says about BIDEN is that he's OUT OF TOUCH, tin ear, a fuck-up (because he's done it before with other cultures, besides that plagiarism thingy).

I jumped on EDWARDS for the SAME THING: That it wasn't the HOUSE, it was the STRATEGY FUCK-UP. Same concept with BIDEN: It warn't the literal words, it was the STRATEGY FUCK-UP!!1

We need a candidate who WON'T FUCK UP STRATEGICALLY!!1

[Nikki Stone1]

144. That is an interesting interpretation.

I am not certain that the word "articulate" means this for everyone complimenting Obama. It is certainly possible that it means this for some.

[UTUSN]

145. No, not for EVERYONE complimenting OBAMA. We're talking BIDEN's statement.

That's why it was pointless to start amassing lists of "articulate" Blacks: Jesse JACKSON, SHARPTON, et al.------because they speak a Black(er) English than OBAMA (in the context of BIDEN's statement).

[Nikki Stone1]

146. The context of Biden's statement lends itself to your interpretation

The word "clean" bothered me more than anything else because there was no good way to interpret it. It is because of the use of "clean" that I buy your interpretation of Biden's "articulate" statement.

[UTUSN]

149. Yep, "clean" = "clean-CUT". Fits with all the ASSIMILATED language.

But I can't concentrate on the topic because your handle, "Nikki STONE" just screams "Roger STONE"!!1 That lovely couple, the Swingers of the '70s (80s?). Roger STONE having been Bob DOLE's strategy dude, the one who came up with the "family values" theme. Then in the middle of the camapaign, he and wife Nikki were exposed for being Swingers.

Here's the lovely couple, with Alex CASTELLANOS thrown in just because he's just as slimy. Tucker was featuring Roger frequently during the last campaign.

[Nikki Stone1]

151. LOL!!!

Nice to meet you.

[Dastard Stepchild]

123. I understand that it is... but I wish it wasn't used in that way...

because it is theoretically quite a nice thing to say to a person. I would love it for someone to notice that I said something with clarity and eloquence... particularly if it was a prewritten speech or something of that sort. :)

[Cleita]

126. I never thought of the word "articulate" as a put down.

Not many of us are, so when we come across someone who is, I thought of it as a compliment. You'd never hear me refer to Bush as articulate, or even "double speaker while saying nothing" Condoleeza Rice.

[uppityperson]

148. I've heard it applied to kids, teachers, GALs, etc.

GAL=Guardian ad litem (appointed by court to sort of be child's advocate, or investigate child, or act in child's interest, in legal things like contested divorces).

That is where I have heard the word "articulate", talking about kids who can articulate well. Missed the putdown racist aspect. Backhanded compliment depends on how ANY compliment is used. Any compliment can be backhanded insult if used properly. Missed the racist part of articulate, though I can understand how it can be. I have always lived in the northern tier states.

[nemo137]

154. which is why it's an insult in some contexts.

When someone like Biden uses it, it has an air of "aw, precious, they're so grown up." Although, in this context, "they" means "minorities" and "grown up" means "white." It's the kind of racism you get from people in suburbs, even (especially?) in the northern tier states. It's a retreading of the old racist trope that black people are somehow less evolved than white people. Using a word that, like you said, otherwise gets applied to children is insulting. Does that make sense?

[LeftishBrit]

156. I wasn't aware of it; but then I'm not American, so am doubtless unaware of certain issues

By contrast the use of 'mainstream' in that same comment immediately struck me as quite offensive.

[CarbonDate]

157. I have never heard the word "articulate"....

...used to describe a white politician. Ever.

It *is* a back-handed compliment, like saying that someone is "punctual". I don't see why that's so hard for some people to understand.

[piedmont]

159. Well, it happens all the time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=112653&mesg_id=112653