Michael Moore: Morality Prohibits Vote for Sen. Clinton

[seriousstan]

Run time: 03:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGv6XBxk1IA   Posted on YouTube: February 07, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: February 07, 2008 By DU Member: seriousstan Views on DU: 3290

 

[sam sarrha]

1. my computer wont play video.... can someone give me a synopsis..

[seriousstan]

2. He's Catholic, she voted for war.

[NoPasaran]

7. Yet four years ago he backed General Clark

A candidate who had run a war?

Michael Moore is a sack of hypocrisy.

[qazplm]

12. yes because clearly

if you dont vote for hillary or prefer someone else, you suck. yawn.

[calmblueocean]

13. Catholics aren't pacifists.

The relevant point is that Iraq was not a "Just War" according to the doctrines of the Catholic church. It was opposed by the Pope.

Personally, I think Moore is just blowing smoke as regards his own motivations not to vote for Hillary, but for other Catholics, this is a legitimate issue.

[defendandprotect]

31. Catholics may be pacifists . . . ?? !!! Catholics have individual conscience . . .

argued against by this Pope -- but acknowledged by Pope John XXIII --- Vatican II.

No one can speak for ALL Catholics; however, you can speak for the current dictates of the Vatican heads.

[tabatha]

22. General Clark was against the Iraq war....

and that is why Moore supported him. He was impressed when he heard Clark's reasons for being against the war.

[McCamy Taylor]

29. Generals FIGHT wars. Moore is selling out universal health care but is scared to admit it.

Remember, Moore called Gore the same as Bush in 2000. He makes mistakes.

[populistdriven]

40. Hillary - Friend of War Corporations and Corporatized Healthcare - Even more than *

Senator Clinton has now received more money from corporations whose business is war than any other candidate in history! Even more than George Bush: http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/
And corporatized healthcare http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=6815841748&topic=4508&ref=mf

[progdonkey]

37. Clark RAN a war, he didn't VOTE TO START a war...

Is point out his support of a professional soldier the best you can do?

If Clark had been a senator and voted in favor of fighting in Kosovo, and Moore said Kosovo was a mistake just like Iraq, but supported Clark while criticizing Hillary, then you'd have a valid case of hypocrisy. As it is, you don't.

[mod mom]

5. As a practicing Catholic he can not vote for Hillary because of her WAR vote.

Working on a film that appears to be about the corporate takeover of this country in the last 8 years.

[NoPasaran]

28. And then in the general election he supported Kerry

Who made the same IWR vote as Hillary.

What a hypocritical sack of shit is Michael Moore.

[DutchLiberal]

43. He said he couldn't vote for HRC in *the primaries*, Mr. Rove.

Is foul-mouthing all you can?

[avaistheone1]

47. True. Moore actually worked to get out the vote for Kerry.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

16. "The fancy umbrella in this shit cocktail is... Clinton's 2002 vote.."

You can read what Michael said on the Larry King show at Alternet. Here's an excerpt:

The fancy umbrella in this shit cocktail is, of course, Clinton's 2002 vote to authorize force in Iraq, which she still refuses to apologize for. Senator Clinton should be begging everyday for forgiveness, knowing that her hawkish attitude helped cause the death of over a million people. However, there is no hint of remorse from her. No apology. No acknowledgment of any wrong doing. Instead, she has the audacity to deny all responsibility for what she calls "George Bush's war," and claims that she actually did make the right decision based on what she knew then.

However, we know that Hillary was also presented with evidence that refuted the faulty intelligence she claims to have based her decision on. She chose to ignore that evidence. The only reconciliatory step Clinton has attempted to make was to call on Congress in May of last year to repeal authorization for the Iraq war, a move which would've accomplish nothing other than to help her own image and silence anti-war liberals who've complained about her initial authorization vote. This move would've only repealed her vote, not the actual war.

Now, I've made some pretty big mistakes on the job but never one big enough to cause genocide, and if "faulty intelligence" ever did lead to a clusterfuck of that magnitude, I'd like to think that I would feel enough shame to at least step down rather than demand that I be promoted to the highest office in the land. However, if there's one positive thing I will force myself to say about Hillary - it's that she's smart. Despite Hillary's "foolish consistency" being "the hobgoblin of little minds," as Ralph Waldo Emerson once remarked, she is much smarter than to allow herself be tricked by George W. Bush into any war.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/76270/

[0007]

18. You have cookies problems perhaps.

[graywarrior]

3. I can't get past the war votes either.

[mod mom]

6. Me either as well as her attempts of whitewashing those votes.

[Hepburn]

24. I can understand being lied to by Bush and supporting the IWR in the beginning....

...what I CANNOT FUCKING understand is at this time not admitting the mistake of voting for the IWR, not apologizing and, most of all, making excuses for supporting what the motherfucker Bush did.

JMHO

[DutchLiberal]

44. I can't understand being lied to by Bush.

She knew the people who engineered the Iraq War (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc.) were the very same people who had tried to convince her husband in 1998 to violently overthrow Saddam Hussein. She knew they had plans to attack Iraq long before 9/11 and they used the attacks as an excuse.

[sam sarrha]

11. did you ever actually read the proposition that was voted on. you should, i dont think it mentions

invasion.

[calmblueocean]

14. It authorized the president to use military however he wanted, no limits.

Here:

AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION.—The President is authorized to use the
Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary
and appropriate in order to—
(1) defend the national security of the United States against
the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.


This language is handing Bush a loaded gun and saying, "Do with this as you please." Completely irresponsible.

Watching people try to defend this resolution is just unbelievably sad to me. What has happened to DU?!

[Gonnuts]

19. Please ... stop

15 million people that marched against attacking Iraq knew it was wrong along with many millions more that couldn't join them on the streets around the world. This old man sitting on his couch knew it was a bad idea, with the word "invasion" or not, and I don't have the supposed access to information Sen. Clinton had, yet we're supposed to believe she was misinformed?

One of two: either she is a warmongering lying cretin or she's too damn dumb for the job because by her own admission she said she was fooled.

Anyone that votes for this women is voting for bush all over again.

[tridim]

21. Every thinking person in the World knew Bush was going to war.

Including Hillary Clinton.

[bvar22]

25. These 154 Democrats KNEW it was WAR!

Are you saying that Hillary "just isn't as bright" as all the following?
Hillary "just thought it was a good idea to join the Republicans and ignore her own Party"?

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

[defendandprotect]

32. Thank you -- quite revealing . . . !!!

And, note Sen. Harry Reid seems to have voted for Bush's war --

QUOTE ....

Democrats KNEW it was WAR!
Posted by bvar22
Are you saying that Hillary "just isn't as bright" as all the following?
Hillary "just thought it was a good idea to join the Republicans and ignore her own Party"?

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

[Aviation Pro]

4. Oh, no....

...I'm not falling for that again Michael. I admire your work, but the name Nader keeps cropping up.

[LeahMira]

8. Nader?

He said that he cannot vote for Hillary in the primaries.

Ask yourself why Dennis Kucinich is no longer in the primaries. That's why people voted Nader... to have their voices heard.

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. so we hate him now.... right?

:eyes:

[peoli]

17. yes he cant vote for the queen, toss him in the gutter.

[whistle]

9. Michael Moore's new film is "While America Slept, American Corporations Ate America's Children"

[bvar22]

36. Can't Wait!

"While America Slept, American Corporations Ate America's Children"

[Tyler Durden]

15. SHOW ME how we can vote for Clinton OR Obama under strict morality.

Did Obama vote for any resolution that contained War Funding?

Yes.

Did Obama vote for any resolution that contained Defense Department Funding?

Yes.

Therefore, Obama votes to support the war.

One step further:

Do you pay your taxes?

Yes.

Does even ONE PENNY of your taxes go to support the Iraq War?

Yes.

Can you DECLINE to pay your taxes (even though jail is a likely result)?

Yes.

Therefore, YOU pay to support the killing and torture in Iraq.


I wrestle with this one every time I open my freaking wallet, and I don't have a good answer.

[tinrobot]

20. If Clinton's the nominee, I vote for her.

It's either her or "100 years of war" McCain.

[Schema Thing]

23. So does Michael Moore.

A short clip does not always inform.

Moore said this only in the context of the Dem primaries. He will gladly vote for Clinton in the general election, as he made clear in this same interview.

[The M Double]

26. Barrack in the primary

& if for some strange reason he doesn't keep his momentum & get the party nod. Hillary in the general without even flinching!

[greenman3610]

27. right. because there's no difference between Al Gore and George Bush.

Thanks Mike, thanks Greens.
How many times do we have to
replay this?
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
The good is infinitely better than the evil that
repubs would do in office.
Its about the courts, friends. I beseech everyone
to stop this pious "morally pure" bs.

[defendandprotect]

30. Besides War vote --- a vote for Hillary is a vote for the DLC ---

Do you want to increase the strength of the corporate DLC --- ???

[defendandprotect]

33. Maybe Michael Moore is also trying to highlight the hypocrisy of

the Vatican/Catholic Church in calling for a vote against Kerry because he was pro-choice --- ???

Ah, "morality" . . . !!!

Who can better speak for it ....?

Male hierarchies of organized patriarchal religion --- ?

Or Michael Moore --- ???

Michael Moore for Pope !!!!

[mudesi]

34. Thank you, Michael. (nm)

[ClayZ]

35. K and R

[JoePhilly]

38. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid ...

It's almost as if some Dems have a fear of success, so they'd rather lose EVERYTHING and then whine afterwards.

[booley]

39. I think the problem is

If we allow Dem Politicians to do what the Right wants, then even if we "win" the election", what exactly have we won?

Why must it always come down to the lesser evil?

[JoePhilly]

42. McCain and Hillary are WORLDS apart.

Which one do you want picking Supreme Court Justices?

Which one do you want signing or vetoing Children's health care?

Which one do you want appointing replacements for the incompetent cronies that Bush spread out all over our government.

Hold you nose if you have to ... but we CAN NOT let McCain be the one making any of these decisions.

[booley]

45. You really didn't answer my point

"Hold you nose if you have to ... but we CAN NOT let McCain be the one making any of these decisions."

Again, why must it always come down to the lesser evil?

I wasn't just being rhetorical. Whether we like to admit it or not, a lot of what the Republicans and conservatives as a group have done has been helped by people like the Clintons.

Don't get me wrong (though I think you will regardless), the Clintons are not Tom Delay or Norquist. But to often they are swayable by such people. I know this is heretical The best difference between Bill Clinton and many of his Republican enemies is that Clinton had limits on how far he would go. It's good that Clinton had limits and wouldn't go as far as the Republicans wanted. But he didn't exactly do much to reverse their gains either. And when he was gone, they had no problem continuing to consolidate power.

No matter what spin you want to put on it, a lot for the ground work for what Shrub has done privatizing the government and taking away civil liberties was laid by action of Bill Clinton. Whether Clinton meant for that to happen is irrelevant. It did work out that way.

And again, lets be fair, it wasn't just Bill Clinton. Many Democrats seem to have this issue.

So lets say we elect Hillary Clinton. What's the best we can hope for? That things won't get any worse for 4 years? And then when 2012 or 2016 rolls around and the conservatives will still be there and will have gotten smarter about packaging their crap, we will be in even deeper trouble.

Sorry but all we have been doing these last few years is at best a holding action. One or two issues isn't going to matter. We still have lost even when we win.

[JoePhilly]

46. Sorry, we'd still be much closer to "winning" then if McCain is Prez.

[ToughLuck]

41. Michael Moore, you are a great American...keep going !!