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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:43 PM
Original message
Cops caught infiltrating the Occupy movement
 
Run time: 01:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIpIKrh7Z8
 
Posted on YouTube: October 30, 2011
By YouTube Member: PlanetEarthAwakens01
Views on YouTube: 304
 
Posted on DU: October 31, 2011
By DU Member: Fire Walk With Me
Views on DU: 13778
 
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bayareamike Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. In regard
Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 09:01 PM by bayareamike
to the first guy that it shown, it seems inconclusive IMHO. There is definitely a similarity but I honestly can't say with 100% confidence that it's the same person.

EDIT: Yeah, the second guy is definitely the same.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. Facial recognition software is going to change this infiltration stuff
People will be ID'd in real time. The whole world will look like that "Preppy Riot" photo with all the players identified.
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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Look out Big Brother; Little Brother is watching you.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. hope so.
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
53. Only if people other than the authorities are allowed to possess and use the software.
Besides, I do not have a great deal of faith that the current administration would be on the side of the citizens in such an argument.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Color me surprised?
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you!!! K&R
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R



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Yon_Yonson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. GAW Damn Spies
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vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
55. Spies are fine. Provocateurs are the problem.
The right wing are trying to push a new talking point:

-- "Protesters Have Worn Out Their Welcome Nationwide."

From NeoCon Central, aka The Washington Post.

Generating pitched battles between protesters and police is a major requirement to sell that shit-line.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Funny how this video won't load/play.......
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. If you suspect that someone is a cop, ASK THEM
If they lie to you, they can be prosecuted for false representation, or entrapment.
This is a tactic that they have been using forever.
They get their people into the movement, and they provoke people to get violent, then it gives the movement a black eye.
This is what happened to us when we tried to shut down Shoreham, back in the 70s. The police were unsuccessful in their attempts to turn us into a violent mob though, because we knew who they were. Now that we have the Internet, it's a lot easier to check someone's identity.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. That bit of advice is totally bunk, unfortunately. nt
PB
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smiley Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
63. does it really hurt to ask though?
seriously.
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Aaria Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Sorry total BS. Get a camera and watch and film. Keep someone young around that can run off with
the camera should they get tired of you watching them.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. no, cops can lie about whether they are cops or not.
It's an urban legend, nothing more.

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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. That is not true
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Cracked magazine as a source?!?!
Surely you can do better!
I would not use that as a source, it's a comedy magazine.
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. I wanted to post a Snopes article
But Snopes is blocked here at work.

But think it through. What's the point of doing undercover work if you're required to blow your cover?

Cops are legally permitted to lie about nearly everything.
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. From a law firm
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From The Ashes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. Snopes link:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Then try it sometime,
...and come back and tell us all how great it worked.

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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
50. Sorry, that is not true at all...
Edited on Mon Oct-31-11 02:35 PM by SkyDaddy7
Never has been true & never will be true. Cops can & do lie about everything especially their ID. I use to see it a lot when working for criminal defense attorneys...Defendants would become friends with these undercover cops & on many occasions had asked them & the cops lied only to be busted later on. Defendants would bring pictures of them partying with the under cover cops to our office & there is nothing that can be done...They are allowed to say & do anything they choose while under cover including getting high!

It is one big urban myth that cops have to tell you they are cops when you confront them.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. that myth was debunked in Grand Theft Auto IV
so much useful info in the GTA games, they should use them in school. :-)
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. AND,
...you can can pick up some really great driving skills. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtcITYuG6vA

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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. WRONG! Cops can and will lie to your face.
If you ask an undercover cop if he's a cop, he'll say no. Undercover cops even get hazard pay for doing drugs to "prove they're not a cop".
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. The police are allowed to lie to u... Its how they get so many
"confessions" from people.. that and the wear down tactic of holding for a long period of time, hammering questions at you to break u down.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. delete
Edited on Sun Oct-30-11 10:01 PM by lib2DaBone
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Marazinia Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. To do something that we want them to do...
Why don't I think he's talking about putting on sunscreen and cleaning up our soda cans and water bottles regularly?
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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. It is a given that this is happening
It is nice to see some proof on film for the naysayers.

But we know it is happening, it always happens. And now no one in Oakland will talk to those guys again :)

Thanks for posting!
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mwrguy Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Jack-Booted Nazi Thugs
Some things never change.

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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just like they were caught in Minneapolis-St.Paul during the R. Convention...
They were caught busting windows.. infiltrating any movement that threatened their version of the truth.
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big lu Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&R
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. Police state. nt
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Oakland STASI....wtf
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Vestigial_Sister Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. You gots to admit...
the porn background music was something special...
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Pray tell.....
:rofl:
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. They hate us for our freedom
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Full employment???
That's no way to collect a pension...
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
51. Bingo!
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anonymousworldwide Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
23. Tell us something we don't know...
Damn the police.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent. nt
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
28. A cynical reminder of who the real thugs are...
for whom bullying, lying, cheating and theft under cover of badge, is just a way of life.

Honest law and order went the way of the billy goat when criminal enterprise was pardoned by a Crony, good ol' boy president.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
29. everyone should know this!!!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
32. They do this every time a real people's movement gets any momentum.
I'm glad people are watching for it and documenting it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
azureblue Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
35. the way to handle them
was to ask directly, "are you a cop?". Of course they will lie, and you then ask to see ID. Now this will make them real nervous and they will refuse - they may have their badge and cop ID with them. If they start to throw something, start getting in the riot cops' faces, or start talking about violence, get as many people as possible to surround and isolate the agent and "walk" him away for the scene. Take pictures, as many pic takers as possible at the same time, and have somebody take pictures of the person taking pictures. Watch them carefully and note if they are making eye contact with the riot cops, and what the response is. Also,look for color codes or odd clothing, used a a codefor other cops to pick out the infiltrators
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. That's exactly what we did when they tried to deny it
back in the 70s. Not sure about the color code thing, but when they start to stall about their identity, you know that something's up. At the point when they stuttered, I would say, "If you have to think about if you're a cop or not, than I guess that you are." Once they were confronted like this, they always admitted that they were, in fact, police. At that point they were expelled from the group. If something started to get the slightest bit violent during a demonstration, we would use the circle and isolate technique, without even asking the person's identity. There weren't as many cameras around back then, so we didn't take pictures, but the few of us who kind of coordinated things remembered these people. It's easier now, but you still need a core group of people who you can really trust.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
37. Please, recall
the Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971. Zimbardo recruited college students for a sociology experiment wherein twelve students 'became' prisoners and twelve students 'became' guards. The experiment was terminated after less than a week because the 'guards' became controlling and abusive, and the 'prisoners' became passive and tolerant of abuse.

Despite the criticisms leveled at Zimbardo and this experiment, we might consider the fact that twelve ordinary students chosen randomly from the Stanford student body to act as 'prison guards' became controlling authoritarians, and that some were abusive--even sadistic.

I am not surprised when I see this type of behavior among the police who are charged with 'handling' the Occupy protesters. I am quite impressed that the protesters remain committed to non-violence and Satyagraha. Perhaps the Satyagraha will help some of the police officers to throw off the shackles of THEIR oppression.

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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Thich Naht Hanh told a story of something that happened during the Vietnam war...
Americans and Vietnamese were shooting at each other from each side of a foot bridge over some water. Four monks needed to cross, so they did, slowly. Shooting slowed down as they did, and eventually ceased all together.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Even MORE frightening, the Milgram Experiment, 1963
"The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of notable experiments in social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience. Milgram first described his research in 1963 in an article published in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology,<1> and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.<2>

<snip>

The subjects believed that for each wrong answer, the learner was receiving actual shocks. In reality, there were no shocks. After the confederate was separated from the subject, the confederate set up a tape recorder integrated with the electro-shock generator, which played pre-recorded sounds for each shock level. After a number of voltage level increases, the actor started to bang on the wall that separated him from the subject. After several times banging on the wall and complaining about his heart condition, all responses by the learner would cease.<1>

At this point, many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Some test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Most continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. A few subjects began to laugh nervously or exhibit other signs of extreme stress once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner.<1>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. That's its name, thank you, I couldn't remember that. Chilling, isn't it?
I watched those films while I was studying psychology.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ahhh COINTELPRO all over again
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Remember Me Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
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dadzilla Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
43. Not all cops are thugs...
but every cop knows a bad cop. The kind of cop who enjoys his job a little too much, that sees him or herself as the last check on criminals or has simply been at it to long and has burnt out. Cops are people with power, and we all know that power tends to corrupt.

It seems to me that a careful activist could use the same technology as the cops have, it simply takes some effort.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. When "good" cops allow bad cops to get away with their bad behavior, then the
Edited on Mon Oct-31-11 06:24 PM by tblue37
"good" cops become complicit and can no longer be considered truly good, just somewhat better than the obviously bad cops.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
46. In the 60s, we used to point 'em out at the beginning of rallies. nt
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
49. The police use provocateurs more and more
At the G20 in Toronto, and everywhere else.
They know they get away with it because its one of those "if the lie is big enough". Many people just do not believe it happens. And the lazy MSM just hooks onto the story of "violent protesters" instead of actually investigating first.

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vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. most provocateurs are on payrolls of right wing organizations. Not cops, technically.
This surveillance role is different from provoking violence or inciting a riot. Seeing a handful of cops in among the marchers is not a bad thing.

-- No masks

-- No weapons

-- No projectiles

-- Make a connection with the OIC Office in Charge

-- Identify your own liaison people

-- Make an effort at doing your own crowd management

-- "Out" any provocateur. Any call for violence or hazardous action is unacceptable

-- What would King do? Or Gandhi? They were the winners.



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vets74 Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. Provocateurs at Air and Space Museum in DC were privately funded and trained.
Oakland looks to be this week's flash point. The guys wearing masks and throwing bottles were 100% white, young, friendly with each other.

You think Rove's buddies couldn't raise $1,000,000 or $5,000,000 to corrupt Occupy events ???

Similar to the $50,000,000 they spent pumping up the first year of false front "Tea Party" events.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Very true. And it must end.
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civilisation Donating Member (456 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
57. there are many examples of this type of manipulation.
there is loads of times cops have been caught working as provocateurs

http://youtu.be/7S1nHvvkzvA

"Quebec provincial police admitted that three of their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators during the protest at the North American leaders summit in Montebello, Que."

after many denials they eventually admitted that these where their guys,. the state police.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
58. they work against Democracy and don't deserve to live in one
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rgbecker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
61. The Curtain, drawn back, reveals a Police State.
Dorothy, Tin Man, Lion and Scarecrow looking at each other, tears welling up in their eyes, can only hope to wake up soon and find it is only a dream.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-03-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
65. Yesterday rabble-rousers broke windows and spray-painted businesses in Oakland
Edited on Thu Nov-03-11 04:25 PM by Fire Walk With Me
during the marches. They were quickly shunned and protesters immediately went to work attempting to repair damages.

Considering what is seen and heard in this video, and that this is the THIRD time Quan has unleashed the dogs of war, how great of a leap is it to believe that POLICE are the ones doing damage and trying to create an excuse to tear the whole thing down?

Bloomberg has had police sending drunks and homeless and rabble-rousers to Liberty Plaza ("Take it to Zuccotti"). "Authorities" and police have been engaging in disgusting tactics against this peaceful, truly meaningful protest and would not suprise me if they they got even worse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Of course, it will backfire upon them. Fascists all. To any police reading this: If you are taking orders from a corporate-controlled government, your actions are fascist. You are doing the bidding of Goldman Sachs and the corporations the Supreme Court allowed to fully engage in politics. Please consider this before accepting orders to cause harm or to even intimidate those of us who seek to reinstate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Thank you very much.
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