Occupy Atlanta Silences Civil Rights Hero John Lewis!

[Rhiannon12866]

Run time: 10:27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI   Posted on YouTube: October 08, 2011 By YouTube Member: conservARTive Views on YouTube: 7398   Posted on DU: October 09, 2011 By DU Member: Rhiannon12866 Views on DU: 6779

 
Unbelievable! :crazy:

[deutsey]

1. Interesting video...wish it wasn't from an apparently conservative source

Still it does show the inherent strengths (real democracy) of a General Assembly as well as the weaknesses (how slow the democratic process can be).

[kmiriam]

2. strategically stupid?

Given the predominant whiteness of Occupy Atlanta I think that the decision to not have him speak was strategically silly and ethically/politically problematic. Occupation NYC has had plenty of famous individuals speak at their forums. If they made the mistake of inviting him to speak during the assembly- they should have admitted the error, but followed through on the decision given that there is already a correct sentiment rising among communities of color regarding the whiteness of the Occupation- and of their thus-far articulated "platforms." I don't think this was constructive given the larger picture.

[Cal Carpenter]

22. OccupyWallStreet in NYC does not let someone famous

interrupt their General Assembly meeting. If the person isn't on the agenda or speaking on-topic within the framework of the GA meeting, they don't speak.

There are plenty of other rallies and other times where more people can speak.

This video is being presented without context.

GA meetings are tedious enough as it is, trying to get through the agenda and making decisions regarding the overall Occupation. It is not a time for someone to show up and make a speech.

Race has absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, I don't know if Atlanta is doing this but at many of the sites they use what is called a 'progressive stack' in which people who want to speak (ON-TOPIC) who are from a traditionally disenfranchised population (eg people of color, women, etc) get first dibs in line, and the over-represented white middle-class college kids get at the end of the line.

This is being blown out of proportion.

[FluxRostrum]

31. this is accurate

this is a movement of the people and famous people who want to participate have no more rights to speak at the GA than anyone else does. Wall Street also rejuected those who just wanted show up and distract from the process. Michael Moore actually stuck around and participated in the Peoples Mic and a GA.

[usaprogress]

30. This was stupid!

Probably one of the dumbest and infantile displays I have seen yet (beside the video of OWS people shitting in the park where they sleep). No wonder so many people have a hard time taking them seriously. The mindless droid-like repeating of whatever the microphone spews out is monotonous and simple minded. It shows that there really is no one in charge. The look on the Congressman's face was classic, "why did I bother to come out to talk to these idiot's?". Embarrassing!

[sabrina 1]

37. Lol, welcome to DU!

Looks like an awful lot of people, like millions, and now worldwide, are taking them seriously. Sorry you are so disappointed that the American people have finally stood up, in almost every state now, and in over 1000 cities.

Don't worry about the rightwing fake reports on Rep. Lewis at the event. He totally understood the procedure and respected it. He could not stay to speak after their meeting was over, but will no doubt be back as he was invited to speak. Of course Glenn Beck would not tell you that.

Enjoy DU, while you are here. Next time though, come with some facts.

The Congressman spoke for himself, and totally disagrees with your and the rightwing media's take on the event.

[usaprogress]

39. First......

Thanks for the greeting. I guess I was offended by the treatment of a fellow Black Person. I am also offended that you would suggest because I did not slobber all over this group I am Right Wing! I am Black and Gay, do you REALLY see me being Right Wing? Ed

[sabrina 1]

43. Why would YOU be offended when he was not and completely

understood the process that was taking place? He was invited to speak at the end of that process, but he could not as he had a prior engagement. Lewis is an intelligent adult unlike the crowd at The Blaze and FR. It is laughable to think they suddenly care about a civil rights hero who was attacked by the far right wachos who were then defended by the same people now attempting to turn this into something it was not. Do they really think everyone is as stupid as Fox viewers?

And btw, what does your (or anyone's for that matter) ethnicity or sexual orientation have to do with anything? Why do you feel the need to bring it up? You are a human being, that is enough, as far as progressives are concerned.

Save your sensitive feelings for Lewis, he was not at all offended and simply wanted to say he supports this movement, and his support is fully appreciated. As for the rightwingers who are trying, though failing, to make an issue of this, maybe the next time they encounter a hero like Lewis they should refrain from the kind of abuse they shamefully leveled at him the last they saw him.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. I know, but I thought it was okay, since it just showed what happened...

No editorializing. And it was the most complete footage that I could find. Somebody on another thread asked exactly what happened, and I thought the video could tell it best. :(

[fasttense]

3. But was it really democracy?

Seems to me that guy with the megaphone decided there were only 2 choices.

1. Let John Lewis speak now or forever hold his tongue.

2. Go along their merry way and continue with their pre-planned agenda.

I got a totally different opinion of the crowd's wants then what the guy with the megaphone had to say.

What about a compromise of allowing John Lewis to speak for a short time and then go on to their so important agenda. Or how about if John Lewis spoke at another time or place where those interested could hear him. And since the megaphone guy decided to go on with the agenda, he should have checked back with John Lewis to see if he could speak another time or place.

Seems to me the guy with the megaphone hijacked all possibility of anything but his 2 choices.

And why are they repeating each other's words if they got a megaphone?

[baldguy]

5. That's the most democratic process I've ever seen.

They were in the middle of an agenda that they wanted to get through. John Lewis showed up and wanted to interrupt that agenda to give a speech. In most other "democratic" assemblies - legislatures, town hall meeting and such - he would have either been ignored, or removed & arrested. Occupy Atlanta put his request to a vote. They didn't have to do that.

"This assembly just voted by consensus to follow the process that we were using. Therefore we will continue with the agenda. This group makes it's decisions by concensious. We do not have a consensus. Therefore we will continue with the agenda that this group has approved."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making



If John Lewis wanted to speak, he could have sat down on the grass & joined the assembly. He choose to walk away instead.

[RBInMaine]

12. But there needs to be common sense exceptions. He's a US Congressman on a schedule. They should have

been willing to yield to him for a few minutes and then move on. It was purity run amok, and they just pissed off a whole bunch of people, especially African Americans, who might have joined the effort. What a fiasco. Every process needs exceptions for special circumstances. It is called COMMON SENSE. And, there was an obvious majority who wanted to pause to allow him to speak.

[baldguy]

18. "...no singular human being is apparently more valuable than any other human being."

Or did you miss that part?

[Erose999]

35. I would think one of the goals of the occupy movement would be to have a dialogue with our elected

officials. I get it that they are on a schedule and that they weren't OPPOSED to having Rep Lewis speak at the designated time. But it does seem sort of counterproductive to pass on the opportunity to engage in dialogue with a congressman.

[Cal Carpenter]

20. He is a US Congressman

He has a platform to be heard far more than most of the people at that site. In addition, these events are non partisan (shit, they're more like ANTI-partisan), there is no cult of personality or hero worship among the vast majority of serious participants.

He interrupted their meeting. He does not get special treatment. If he wants to speak he can do it at the appointed time for 'other business' or plan ahead and do it at a rally. Plenty of people at the Occupy events have other things going on - work, families, outside lives, and they make it to the GA meeting so they can participate in the decision-making process.

I can say from my experience at the Chicago site that plenty of African-Americans would not have supported an interruption of GA by a congressperson regardless of their skin color.

I don't know why you would assume that black people would automatically welcome the off-topic interruption of a meeting by someone just because they are black too.

The meetings are a little tedious, to be sure, but that is the thing with real participatory democracy and consensus-reaching. It's hard work, and you have to stay on point to get it done.

[Rhiannon12866]

32. My feeling was that they could have learned from him.

Who better, with his background? And it sure wouldn't hurt to have the support of someone with his stature, which is what this movement is looking for. I agree with you. I felt like this was a botched opportunity. :(

[Erose999]

15. Hopefully Rep. Lewis will get to speak. I know one of the speakers suggested he speak at another

time. It seems like the crowd were not opposed to hearing him speak at the event, just at the designated time for speakers to address the event.

Hopefully they will work it out. Rep. Lewis is pretty much our only congressman in our whole delegation whose worth a damn. I met him recently at Emory Medical Center. The one weekend I go to Atlanta I encounter their congressperson.

I've lived in Athens for 4 years and I have yet to see our 10th district rep (republican Paul Broun Jr.) anywhere within the city limits of his supposed "hometown".

[sabrina 1]

44. Yes it was true demoncracy. This movement is not about

making exceptions for famous people no matter how highly respected they are, and Lewis most certainly is that. If they make an exception for a US Congressman, what do they do when an ordinary person wants an exception, or a Republican? The same rules apply to everyone, and Lewis at least, understood and respected that.

To do otherwise would have set a precedent that has not existed so far, that if you have 'clout' exceptions will be made for you. This is precisely the wrong message to send as that is exactly the system now in place which is why we have the huge divide we have between the haves and have nots.

He was invited to speak at the end of the process, but had to leave. Lewis is not offended, I don't know why anyone else is. He will probably be at many of these events, there will be plenty of time for him to do so and I hope he does. His support is very much appreciated and it's no surprise he would understand this movement, given his own history.

[border_town]

6. I understand they whole democratic process

but they should have let him speak, just out of respect for the man and his place in American history.

[stockholmer]

7. if the group has decided to act in the consensus model, there can be no exceptions made,or the whole

thing falls apart. I am not saying I agree with their choice of model, but I do respect their right to follow it if that is what the group has agreed to. I also, (and in this I am much more firm in my opinion), completely applaud the group not allowing a pre-existing power player from the broken, corrupt 2-party sham US system to come in and 'occupy' their agenda.

Lewis was more than welcome to stay and participate under the group rules. He made the choice to leave. I would respect him even more than I do (and I do respect his contributions to the US civil rights movement) if he chose to leave the Democratic Party, and govern as an independent. The whole Occupy movement will only work if it is truly about revolution, not reform. The US system is beyond reform, as the systemic controllers own the votes of the vast majorities of both parties, and thus own the corrupt form of oligarchic capitalism that this political corporate fascist system enables and strengthens.

If all the Occupy movements are co-opted by the foundations of the so-called professional left (so far they have resisted this, more or less), and simply become a quasi-appendage of the Democrat party, then the movement is doomed to failure.

[walerosco]

11. well said

This movement has to be a bottoms up control instead of a tops down and from the video, it seems like the majority decided to continue with their agenda. I am sure its nothing against the man and personally this goes to their credit and shows that occupyatlanta is a non partisan movement

I bet you nobody would shed a tear if they did that to a TARP supporting republican if he came to their event.

[RBInMaine]

16. Wrong. The movement is doomed to failure if it embraces ultra-purity with no means to actually

accomplish ANY of their goals through the law-making process. What do you think, that they are going to wave a magic protest wand and get what they want? You have to actually ELECT people to office, and MANY of them, to get done what you want to get done. Or you have to at least be able to effectively pressure those currently in office to do so. Protest movements only achieve something tangible if they turn into something with real political action and organization, and still it takes YEARS to get much done. This will fizzle out fast if they don't organize for real electoral/political action, and they sure as hell ain't gonna elect the Green Party. So they might as well get real and work with the Democrats. Otherwise, this will be a feel-good moment for a while before it fizzles fast and achieves ZERO actual change. That is the reality of the world.

[stockholmer]

19. well, if you are hanging your hat on the Dems actually doing anything positive, I agree, reality sux

Why does the US, no matter what stripe politically, bash bash bash 3rd, 4th, hell, 5th parties? The American 2 party is broken, it isn't going to be 'fixed', it is designed to simply project and project the power of the systemic controllers.

If Obama isn't example number one of this, well, I simply do not know what it will take to wake you up.

That said, I am so much more hopeful for the American left to adapt and prosper outside this rigged game.

---------------------------------------------
The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

- Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope (1966)

[MNBrewer]

25. Yes, made it abundantly clear that

you think OWS should work within the established, broken, disfunctional, rigged-against-them, $ talks power structure of the Democratic Party. To which OWS has replied with a hearty F that S.

Why would they want to work with a broken, disfunctional, rigged-against-them, $ talks political party?

This has been going on for only 3 weeks and you want it to be a full fledged political movement with top-down heirarchy and Robert's Rules of Order?

I can see why this scares the crap out of Democratic partisans! Oh noes... a group of people we can't control, or brow beat into submission by simply mentioning a Republican candidate's name.

[Chan790]

21. Have you ever seen consensus work?

I've never seen it work anywhere at any time in a group of more than 4 people...it's simply a boondoggle...an invitation to disruption. (I'm guessing nobody else noticed but the RW video-podcaster/video-blogger filming was also participating in the meeting and doing so only to disrupt and sow discord.)

That was a mess...Lewis might be okay with it...but its' further proof of why I refuse to associate with organizations that use that model. It is in-itself condemnation to failure of whatever the agenda is...as soon as they said consensus model, I'd have packed my tent knowing they're not serious about their objectives or else they would have laughed at the person who proposed that they run a large group by mutual accord.

Edit: removing useless punctuation.

[zazen]

8. crap! however unracist this was, Fox now has its silly meme

I can see it now.

Suddenly, Fox and company will be falling all over themselves with concern that the Occupy movement is somehow racist, and then 2 million idiot right wing parrots will be shouting it from the rooftops.

[stockholmer]

9. so show all it wasn't racist, don't let a shite pseudo-news organ define you, Fuck Fox

[AnnieK401]

13. Sounds like Fox

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Exultant Democracy]

46. You are right, now they will say look the OWS is just as racist as the tea party. First big mis-step

IMO.

What I really don't get is why they weren't falling over themselves to have a vetern of the civil rights movement speak at their planing meeting about some of the lessons he learned the hard way.

John Lewis has had dogs and fire hoses turned on him, I'm sure he isn't going to lose any sleep over being snubbed.

However the OWS movement is not going to be sustainable is it is just young white people and snubbing a senior citizen African America civil rights hero is not going to help them win the friends that they need.

[ooglymoogly]

10. They might as well have been yelling

We insist on being rigidly stupid and irrelevant.

[stockholmer]

14. I do believe they have decided to allow both the Republicans & Democrats to keep playing those roles

[ooglymoogly]

27. Looks like an effort to thwart any real chance at a peaceful revolution

by infiltrating the crowds with teabaggers and repukes and bringing their bullhorn fox to record the result of...A non happening.

Did not take long for the moneychangers to figure that out....at least it will most likely work in the south where they are still droooooling over bringing back slavery and too, the reddest states.

[Cal Carpenter]

17. It was the middle of General Assembly

In reality, they are trying to stay on topic and get through their agenda.

No one's voice is more important than another's. If he isn't on topic to the issue being discussed, then he shouldn't be able to speak at GA.

If he wants to speak, he needs to do it on their terms, later in the meeting, or at a rally or some other specific event where it is planned for someone like him to speak.

They didn't silence him - he interrupted their meeting at the wrong time.

This type of democratic meeting is tedious as hell for sure, I've been to the GAs at a different site. But there is a reason for this - it is reaching consensus - and there is no way that *any* congressperson trumps the desire of the group to get through their agenda.

[jerseyjack]

23. Its like the first organizatonal meetings described by Orwell in Animal Farm

[jerseyjack]

24. Now watch the Greatest Thread entitled, "To The DNC and all Federal..."

then the video starts to make real sense.

[jerseyjack]

26. Christopher Hitchens made the point yesterday that the problems

are not going to be solved within the framework of the current American political system. That being so, the OWS was more than correct in not letting him speak.

[ooglymoogly]

28. Christopher Hitchens is a drunken sot who dances to anybodies tune.

to sell whatever and usually ends up very close to the repuke viewpoint. The world as seen through gin bottles is of little consequence.

[Chan790]

29. Are we really taking the words of that drunken RW sot seriously now?

If I wanted to know what moderate Republicans think...I could find better ones to ask than Hitch.

Whatever problems are going to be solved will be by-necessity solved within the current political system because whatever support OWS might have among the non-radicalized 99% will dissipate by sunset if they start talking about revolutionary system change as opposed to reforms and equality. People somewhat have an emotive attachment to this political system and its' foundation ideals even if they think the current atmosphere is mere lip-service to those ideals...we're not the French who have been through five republics in the time we've existed as a nation. We're certainly not a socialist nation and thus you're stuck with reform of the constitutional republic and capitalism rather than their replacement.

As a great military thinker once noted, one can choose one's battle or one's battlefield.

[Cats Against Frist]

33. What the hell is this bullshit?

If the alternative to Wall St. is this, I'm just going to slit my throat.

[tishaLA]

47. Thank you. I feel the same way

Mr Lewis has an extraordinary history with nonviolent protests, civil disobedience, and real change. I am saddened that this happened to him.

[Generic Other]

34. No one lets citizens address Congress either

I felt saddened by the scene. Lewis is a powerful ally. Unfortunately, he steps forward on the day when these folks no longer trust politicians.

[Exilednight]

36. This was just a stupid move. n/t

[Enrique]

38. Lewis knows all about this stuff

remember, his organization SNCC was very young and idealistic too, and I'm sure they had similar issues with process.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

40. Lewis has paid his dues and then some

this move was just asinine - and dripping ego and pretentiousness

[wundermaus]

41. Democracy sucks when it doesn't go the way you want it to...

I think Mr. Lewis just got a healthy dose of democracy.
It is a humbling experience.
He was not gracious nor appeared appreciative to what was taking place around him.
I would have thought he would have shed tears of joy upon what he witnessed.
I was so impressed by the civility and respect of that group of citizens.
That my friends, is what democracy looks like.
It isn't pretty.
In fact, it's a little messy and inefficient.
...it's the best we've ever come up with in ten thousand years.

[ooglymoogly]

42. If Lewis had been allowed to speak, even briefly, it would have been

a clip on youtube, reaching hundreds of thousands and played on this and every other smart website and would receive many comments; Pushing the movement that much more into the spotlight, something it desperately needs. An agenda can hold for five or ten minutes without any damage.

[sabrina 1]

45. Lewis will speak at many of these events I am sure. He completely

understood, was invited to speak at the end of the process, but had a prior engagement. This is being pushed negatively by Glenn Becks blog and the far right media. It was a nothing event, no one was offended except those who are looking desperately for something, anything, to try to stop this movement.

They do not NEED famous people actually, although it is wonderful that so many HAVE offered their support. They have managed to occupy over 1,000 cities in this country, and many more Globally in solidarity with them when everyone thought they would be gone after the first weekend. They have been able to turn out tens of thousands of people on the streets in the middle of the week in NYC, and thousands in cities like Boston and Denver etc.

This is not American Idol. It is totally a people's movement which is why it has been so successful. Everyone is welcome, but to turn it into a celebrity event, would simply be going back to the old ways, none of which have accomplished much, no matter how many celebrities supported them. It needs to be kept non-partisan and totally people-oriented, and without leaders who would only become targets of those who fear such a movement.

I am thrilled that people like Lewis supports them, but this is not about individuals, it is about the American people.

It is clear, despite the whining of the Corporate Media and the far right and even some on the left, that their message IS understood and that it resonates with millions of people here and abroad. Which means they should keep doing what they are doing, it is working.

[ooglymoogly]

49. You know Sabrina, on many things, I tend to agree with you, but on this one I do not.

It was a silly and smug thing to do, for the aforementioned reasons.

Though it is of little or no consequence; To pretend Lewis was not, somewhere between offended and disappointed, is living in lala land. It is on video for all to see. Lewis is an important ally. What else can he possibly say but "I am not offended, and I understand and I applaud their pluck etc. Even though I took time out of my busy and vital schedule to be here; But that too is of no consequence.

This movement belongs to us all.

This movement must be catapulted at even the minutest opportunity.

Lewis came to lend a hand and offer his substantial voice and soapbox.

This movement is life and death to this democracy and the moneychangers know it and they will do everything in their power to marginalize it.

Why give them any opportunity?

This incredible happening will succeed or fail on its own collective intelligence and the many it can gather to a cause that is vital to us all. It needs all the symbiotic cheerleaders it can get to keep it foremost on the conscious of the world.

It was nothing for that gathering for him to have spoken for a few minutes, gathering even more plaudits to the cause.

[sabrina 1]

50. Hi ooglymoogly, I generally agree with you also, and it's okay

if we don't agree on this. But if you have been watching the way these events are organized since the beginning, they did have to ask Rep. Lewis to wait as so many others have been asked to do. The reason I have no problem with it is because Rep. Lewis doesn't. He issued this statement through his spokesperson after some people tried to make a big issue of it:

"As a veteran of the Civil Rights Movement, Congressman Lewis is very familiar with the dynamics of protest, and he respects the right of protesters to choose to follow their own pre-organized agenda. He is not concerned or offended in any way by what happened Friday. In fact, the group's process reminded him very much of SNCC, so he was not disturbed at all by what happened."

They have invited him back and issued an explanation of the process and how it works and how it was not in any way meant to disrespect Rep. Lewis, or any of the many other people who have throughout these weeks, been asked to place their names in the 'stack' when they want to say something. HE was not offended, because when you understand how these GAs work, he understood it completely.

I know he will be attending many of them, all over the country, and I look forward to that and so, I'm sure, do most of the people involved.

Anyhow, that is my take on it, based on HIS take on it. If he had been upset, then so would I but I really did not think he would be, he is far too intelligent a man not to understand the situation. :-)

[Enrique]

48. Lewis responds by complimenting the group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2090133

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2011/10/10/occupy-atlanta-john-lewis-is-invited-to-speak-were-sorry-if-we-offended-ya

"As a veteran of the Civil Rights Movement, Congressman Lewis is very familiar with the dynamics of protest, and he respects the right of protesters to choose to follow their own pre-organized agenda. He is not concerned or offended in any way by what happened Friday. In fact, the group's process reminded him very much of SNCC, so he was not disturbed at all by what happened."