London Riots. (The BBC will never replay this. Send it out)

[wndycty]

Run time: 04:24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o   Posted on YouTube: August 09, 2011 By YouTube Member: mYcHeMiCaLrOmAnCeGaL Views on YouTube: 315   Posted on DU: August 09, 2011 By DU Member: wndycty Views on DU: 15012

 

[stockholmer]

1. the mask is coming off the smiley face of British official tyranny, the BBC is a projection of it

better quality video of same exchange

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WoFak7MRBJw#at=283

[Pooka Fey]

7. +1. very well said.

[reggie the dog]

2. that is on top of my facebook

great find

[neoconn]

3. Have respect fotr a old negro!!!

That ole man really gave that newswomen the biz!!!

[Javaman]

12. say what?

"old negro"?

[guruoo]

18. I took it as sarcasm related to his treatment by the BBC talking head.

[ZombieHorde]

55. It's a quote from the video. "Have some respect for an old, West Indian negro." nt

[axollot]

110. That is what the guy said to the BBC woman.

On another note, I am so torn over this - I know people this is hurting, people this is scaring and I do not condone riots to get a message out but then how many times have the folks in the UK peacefully taken to the streets? Dunno.

cheers
Sandy

[TalkingDog]

16. "Have some respect for an old West Indian Negro" is more accurately what was said

and I agree. She tried to marginalize him as a criminal and he set her on the straight and narrow.

[Ken Burch]

69. Although, at age 68, Mr. Howe isn't really all that old.

(btw, I've read his articles in the New Statesman and The Guardian for years now-Darcus Howe is a great writer on the racial dynamic in Britain and many other issues).

[glowing]

4. Notice the Mayor is speaking some truths, and the newsroom pulls up his past

and tries to discredit the man for speaking about the truth as he sees it day to day. The truth that happens to his own family. Tue truth that the 2%r's are losing control of the masses. He calls her an idiot and shames her back for disrespect. The wealthy cannot win. Their goon squads aren't big enough, as it is, the downturn is causing lay offs of their protective police.

It may not look pretty to riot. However, peaceful protests in the Western World are narrated or not spoken about at all. So, people just feel like it's their problem or their town or their county that is getting shafted. If they are shown discontent throughout the world and within their own country, then they may be more influenced to take a stand... Or at least work on electing leaders that are like themselves, rather than a wealthy lawyer who lies to them to be elected and then do the opposite.

Things are heated just like the summer weather. The worst thing these rich people could have done was to refuse to insist on continued tax breaks while the masses have nothing and are being stripped of more "austerity" is what they call it. It's hard to steer the masses when it hits too hard and people cannot expect a decent life at all.

The economic plunge in 2008, should have thrown the pendulum fully the opposite way. Govt should have responded with massive social spending and direct hiring programs. If it had, the big corps would be responging now with investment and hiring to keep up with the demands of the Govt spending programs. It was also the huge opportunity for "energy producers", ie, oil companies to retool their methods. They are in the business of creating energy. Oil and coal could have been weeded out as they invest in solar, wind, and electric. Govt and private business should have worked tirelessly into creating public transit along with transportation improvements... Even if it meant a massive buy back program to have everyone in electric or hybrid vehicles.

It was also the time for all of us to discuss what is a reasonable life to live? With our advancing technology and obvious need for our families to have more time with one another, we should be speaking to cutting down the work week while still being able to live off of the wages, universal healthcare, access to education all the way thru comets levels, affordable quality homes, getting young people into the "farming" business because that's going to be a big issue in a few years, sustainable living, and a humane retirement and/ or treatment of those who cannot work or are I'll.

Instead they protected the rich and now they are getting blowback. Instead of investing in people they forced people to suffer more and ignored that they exist. We are in effect losing tallent and ingenuity of people who can't find work or are stuck flipping burgers. Nits a shame. It's time to turn off the news and fake reality tv and make our own tomorrow better.

[dissidentboomer]

6. Well, well.... Some glowing truth. Good comments.

[snipervictim]

21. You are right BUT

You must understand that to the rich if they can sell you the same widget for 100 years they will sell it .Think of the phone company they didn't get off their butts till they were broken up till then everyone had the same black phone in their house. I think atm we have way to many people who look down on others for whatever reason ,race,money,education,etc... Until people understand that the guy who picks up the garbage is just as or even more important than say a doctor we as a people are screwed!!!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

88. Hear, hear!

However, peaceful protests in the Western World are narrated or not spoken about at all.

[DeSwiss]

5. ''When the social contract is broken, the people must revolt.'' ~John Locke - K&R n/t

[guruoo]

13. Saving that one. nt

[LiberalLovinLug]

8. Thanks for posting this

All over the western world the news media is controlled by executives that hire these ignorant corporate mouthpieces...yes even on BBC, and on CBC in Canada...that are recruited and honed and over-payed to in order to whitewash any deeper social injustices.

He says he could see this coming from for a long time and so she asks him "does that mean you condone what happened in your community last night?". :crazy:

[defendandprotect]

49. They've been taking down the BBC for more than 20 years .... just like our PBS and NPR ...

and they need to do that because GB and America are right wing/conservative

nations/people!!


:rofl: -- :rofl: -- :rofl:

[humblebum]

80. I'm glad someone else noticed that. She needed to let the man speak.

It's almost as if they were trying to direct his comments. Very poor reporting. Or perhaps they knew exactly what they wanted to do.

[CanonRay]

102. I have a feeling the producer was yelling in her earpiece:

Shut this guy up!

[bread_and_roses]

91. And we have our own cadre around here buying right into the establishment narrative...

as can be seen around this site.

K'd, and R'd earlier

[swilton]

9. Big difference between 'understanding' what the rioters'

grievances are and condoning what they do - the BBC kept interrupting.....

[readmoreoften]

22. +1

[indurancevile]

37. and did you notice at one point she called him "marcus howe"?

[abelenkpe]

38. +1 nt

[defendandprotect]

50. We saw at play the great power of the corporate press to label -- "rioters" ---

and the gentleman comes back with "insurrectionists" -- and he is of course

correct!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Which is what I have been saying for a while

[JDPriestly]

10. I should explain that when I lived in London in the early 1970s,

I am white but I experienced an incredible amount of racial hatred among the British citizens. They have a large number of immigrants from around the world, and at that time they indulged in the ugliest kind of racial discrimination especially in the workplace.

Hopefully things have changed.

But the newscaster was downright discourteous to this elderly man who is worried about the young people in his community.

In my opinion, the newscaster very cleverly hid her true feelings, but she reminded me of the kind of remarks that I, as a white person, heard other white people in Britain make about "Nigerians" behind their backs. "Nigerians" was apparently the broad term for people of African decent who were living in Britain at that time.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

57. I lived there as well and I cannot relate to what you said.

My best friend in England was from the West Indies, St Vincent. We went everywhere together, concerts, shopping, movies, parties, clubs sight seeing..you name it, and even worked together. I never witnessed any racism towards her. In 1974 she came back to the US with me and the thing that surprised me was how we were treated here because we were of different races. We were treated like we were up to no good and it was very unsettling to say the least. I never saw any hatred towards none whites in England. I never heard my fellow Brits refer to anyone of African descent as 'Nigerians'. The UK has never had the awful racism like the US has. There was no segregation at all.

When West Indians came to the UK in large numbers in the 50's and 60's, I remember that we were very nice to them. I can remember hearing remarks from my parents and grandparents as a little girl..all positive. You said you experienced an incredible amount of racial hatred among British citizens...but I never did. I was born and raised 50 miles outside of London and spent a lot of time in the Smoke (London).

[JDPriestly]

62. I worked on the East side -- Broad Street for a company.

That is where I met up with so much racism. It shocked me.

I also experienced it when I worked in a Temp Agency for the Agency itself.

It might have been a class thing. It may have been the business managers I was working for. MBA types, go-getters.

[ehrnst]

11. The racist comments on the video are shocking.

Really.

[MrMickeysMom]

79. You're talking about how the studio "head" ask him questions...

I agree.

It sort of reminds me of, "Are you NOW, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?" a la, BBC talking head.

[katty]

14. ah, the truth is always so uncomfortable

[L0oniX]

15. They think their cops are bad? Shit ...they need to see what our cops do here.

[originalpckelly]

34. By now they would have called in the nukes on 'em.

That is after evacuating anyone who is high net worth.

[defendandprotect]

51. Obviously, racial profiling and a lot of the stuff that has gone on here -- racist stuff --

is moving their way --

[sulphurdunn]

17. When the old man wouldn't

play his part in the narrative, and when he wouldn't be shamed by a false allegation or bow to her appeals to authority, the poor woman didn't know whether to shit or go blind. She probably go fired for failing to control the interview or to cut it off quickly enough. After it was over, she had a look on her face like someone who know she's failed and that there will be consequence.

[LiberalLovinLug]

71. "the poor woman didn't know whether to shit or go blind"

[KurtNYC]

117. she kept cutting him off and reaching for false conclusions

It was less an interview than a series of allegations made by the BBC talking head.

[fascisthunter]

19. that Interviewer is a perfect example of Ignorance

the dangerous type of ignorance that creates and fans the flames of resentment... she didn't want to listen, instead she wanted to coach the guy into saying what she wanted to hear... and when she didn't, she accused him of condoning riots and being a part of them.

to the Interviewer: You stupid fucking arrogant upper crust dumbass!

[readmoreoften]

23. +1

[leveymg]

27. The interviewer is an example of someone who knows the script and expects others to stick to it

"We can't comment about such things until the official inquest is completed." 12-15 months from now, when the incident is all but forgotten. That's how the news gets censored - it waits for the official version, when immediate reality doesn't fit the scripted narrative.

F-ck her.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Not exactly, she knows the script and he deviated from the script

we've seen versions of this here.

[readmoreoften]

20. I was just about to post this video!

[Muskypundit]

24. This video shocked me and gave me a prime time example of I guess corporate media at its worst.

To see a very eloquent, passionate person get spun to be somehow for violence, or somehow an instigator just because that eloquent passionate person was black... was sickening. I sometimes disagree with this site and what/who is racist, but to me that was so blatant it made ME want to tip a cop car.

Moving for all the wrong reasons.. this is what this video is. I hope they all fucking burn.

[TheeHazelnut]

25. typical Wikipedia antics

I just went to Darcus's Wikipedia page to learn about him and saw this paragraph about the incident:

Howe was interviewed live on BBC television<6> on 9 August, 2011 during the 2011 London riots. The interview was noted for the hostile tone taken by the BBC presenter Fiona Armstrong conducting the interview<7>.

Shortly after Howe began lamenting(citation needed) that "young blacks and young whites... have been telling us, and we wouldn't listen..." the presenter interrupts him (citation needed) to ask him if he "condoned the violence". While denying condoning the violence,(citation needed) his attempt to decry(citation needed) the killing of Mark Duggan (widely seen as the spark for the unrest(citation needed)) was again interrupted(citation needed) by the presenter who insisted(citation needed) that "we have to wait for the official inquiry. We don't know what happened to Mr. Duggan."<8>

Howe attempted(citation needed) to present the actions of a tiny(citation needed) criminal(citation needed) minority(citation needed) as a political uprising:

"I don't call it rioting, I call it an insurrection of the masses of the people. It is happening in Syria, it is happening in Clapham, it's happening in Liverpool, it's happening in Port of Spain, Trinidad, and that is the nature of the historical moment....."

At that point(citation needed) the presenter again interrupts(citation needed) Howe in mid-sentence(citation needed): "You are not a stranger to riots yourself, are you? You have taken part in them yourself." Dismayed(citation needed), Howe responded(citation needed) before being finally cut off(citation needed):

"I have never taken part in a single riot. I've been on demonstrations that ended up in a conflict. And have some respect for an old West Indian negro, and stop accusing me of being a rioter. Because I...you don't want to get abusive. You sound idiotic. Have some respect."

Typical Wikipedia editorial petty tyrants with all this "citation needed" nonsense. God help us if anything is actually communicated.

[MODem75]

26. That was some of the most unprofessional journalism I have ever seen.

[alp227]

28. Fire this fool. Very hostile and narrow-minded for the BBC.

She could find a job with (coughcough) a Rupert Murdoch media property more suitable.

[westerebus]

29. Condone?

Condone the riot?

This ain't no riot, this is an insurrection!

Truth to power.

[closeupready]

30. What a clueless, harpy shrew. Egad.

:puke: She just kept cutting him off, sheez. :mad:

[blank space]

31. Come on guys -

what on earth are you talking about ?!

This guy is talking absolute Bollocks. The looters are nothing more than thieves.

To try and paint this as some Noble Cause in a similar light as Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Bahrain is just disgusting.

The protestors there are standing up to years of brutal dictatorships with bullets and torture and death as a response.
They are peacefully protesting for genuine freedom.


These hooligans live in the worlds most advanced democracy, with the most passive police force on earth. They live in the most tolerant society I have ever been - and yes I lived there for years, and years.

These kids are theives and hooligans - to even suggest that this is similar to the Arab Spring is grotesque.

This guy is an absolute complete total MORON.

[harmonicon]

32. I don't think he's a moron for wanting to be heard after being asked to speak.

I do agree with you about the rioters, but he wasn't condoning them. What the presenter wouldn't listen to was a statement he wanted to make about how unrest had been welling up for years, and that the older generations weren't paying any attention to it. As others have said, trying to understand people and condoning their actions are two different things.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blank space]

36. Sorry you're completely wrong.

You appear to have an agenda and cant get past it.

These riots had nothing what so ever to do with the cuts, nor with the student protests earlier in the year, nor the police questioning and detaining people on the streets.

I've lived in London, the reality is that the police basically had almost no authority at all - they could not ask you your name, nothing.

They brought in laws because of completely out of control knife violence - and I mean it was disgusting.

I had many friends who were Emergency doctors in london and all they did, all night long was deal with knife victims - and I dont mean one or two - I mean dozens every single night.

So yes, they stop and search for weapons, they had no choice and everyone in london supported it.

If you listen to what these kids are saying - I have this morning - they are saying its because they are showing the police that they rule the streets, that they are taking their tax like the government does etc.

Its just absolute crap - mindless kids being hooligans and thugs.

This guys comments are just ridiculous, he then pulls the Negro race card - and absolute tool - I would tell this guy to stick it up his arse if I heard that shit.

Here is a thread which shows some of the people who really did protest at the austerity, the bankers the cuts, the political oppression, these are the type of people who were kettled in London, who were beaten and some killed for genuinely PEACEFULL protest over genuine political reasons

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x607764

[indurancevile]

40. lol. the famous "out of control knife violence". what a hoot.

[blank space]

42. Yeah -

do have a comment about it or more mindless posts which contribute nothing.

Wasn't a hoot at all mate - was actually terrifying - did you ever get stabbed ?

Didn't think so, you just going to post stupid, stupid things like "knife violence what a hoot",

Incredibly insensitive and stupid.

[indurancevile]

54. lol, i'm rolling on the floor. question is, was there ever a real increase in "knife crime"

in the uk?

or was it psyops to generate support for the new police state?

[go west young man]

120. Police state? If that was the case wouldn't they at least carry guns?

Psy ops my arse. The only brainwashing going on is you brainwashing yourself that your serious.
And London is notorious for knife crime which has been steadily on the rise. Here's just one example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-453707/Bus-passenger-fatally-stabbed-chip-throwing-man.html

[harmonicon]

48. What agenda do I have?

If you'd looked at my profile, you'd know that I've lived in the UK for years - you don't have to school me on it.

It was not this guy who chose to make race and issue. They clearly chose to interview him, because they wanted a west indian to condemn this violence. He wanted to say something more nuanced, and for refusing to provide a nice sound-clip, was cut off.

My only agenda is to come to an understanding. If these kids want to say that it is they who rule the streets, lets hear it! We get nothing from shutting our ears and eyes and ignoring the cries of youth, even if they are wrong.

I've not once tried to equate these riots to the protests over tuition hikes. Nice try though.

[sudopod]

52. "You appear to have an agenda and cant get past it."

LOL

[civilisation]

86. git

"These riots had nothing what so ever to do with the cuts, nor with the student protests earlier in the year, nor the police questioning and detaining people on the streets."

Yes of course, these riots are completely out of any context, nothing ever happened before the riots, there is no relationship already established between the rioters and the police, as they have had no interactions in the past, because the past does not exist in your delusional dreamworld.

Yes looting, and burning are ugly,. and innocent people do get hurt,. however, there are reasons that so many people brake with societal norms and fight with police, and act out in these ways. Your desire to equate the whole issue with mindless thuggery is BBC spoon fed bollocks. If so many people are willing to risk life and lime to act out then there are much larger issues than simple street punks out for shits and giggles.

[indurancevile]

35. that woman is a stone tight-assed upper-class b---h. excuse my language, but she is.

[blank space]

39. Your comments make you look like a snob

who simply judges people based on their accent.

The woman was absolutely right and this West Indian Negro - (pathetic race card) - was way out of order and sickened my to stomache hearing him compare these mindless, disgusting thieves to the genuine political struggles of the Arab spring - I would have shut this guys mic off at the first chance and then berated him on camera without any right of reply for being such a total tool.

[indurancevile]

41. lol. keep it up, it's very clear who you are.

[blank space]

43. And who that be ?

Seriously do have anything to contribute or is this mindless trolling your day job ?

[indurancevile]

46. you're doing a swell job of outing yourself. i'll leave you to it.

[abelenkpe]

44. I don't understand why she wouldn't let him tell the story of Mr. Duggar?

He was killed and this sparked the riots? Why isn't he allowed to say why he thinks the riots were started?

[blank space]

45. The riots

and his death have absolutely nothing in common.

His family was holding a peaceful vigil outside the police station trying to get information, they had a microphone.

The UK police do not even carry guns, they have to call in special ops to deal with guns. The idea that this guy was just gunned down AMERICAN STYLE is simply ludicrous. Doesn't happen. (Mendez aside which caused a massive out cry and was done by under cover agents straight after the July 7 bombings).

These riots are not in response to that - just absurd to even suggest that it was.

Duggans best friend was on Australian radio this morning and said categorically his family and Duggan himself would be disgusted at this type of behaviour, and it has nothing to do with it.

Its an opportunity to riot and steal by hooligans - thats all there is to it. Its disgusting.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

53. +1000

Well said. :hi:

Americans are comparing what they know happens in the US with what is going on in the UK.

I find it very scary that these yobs are organizing themselves into looting hoards using twitter, BBM etc, knowing full well the police are spread too thin to stop them. It could happen in any country.

[abelenkpe]

59. That is scary! Nt

[Smilo]

61. The man said it is an insurrection......

...for a few it may be, but when you look at all the newspapers and watch the tv and film reports for many this is pure thuggery - looting and mayhem. And who are the thugs attacking not the banks or the big businesses, but the small people, those who have worked hard and tried to make a go of something.

Did any of you see the poor young boy being robbed after supposedly been helped - it was absolutely sickening.

No these are not insurrectionists - this is destruction, theft and mob violence for the sake of it.

[harmonicon]

67. the picture and audio were both pretty poor....

but I think that he said the Brixton riots of 30 years ago were an insurrection, not what is currently going on.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[underpants]

47. They need some of that Blackwater ...er um Xe there in merry old England

Am I supposed to think that we didn't pay seed money to Blackwater for no reason?

These things don't just pop up on the powers that be. They are planning around them.

[Azooz]

56. "a banana a day keeps the jamaicans away"

I used to hear that phrase growing up in London in the 60s - too young to think about in those days.

[disillusioned73]

58. I kept checking to see if this was..

fox news euro or something. Talk about unproffesional...

[theblasmo]

60. Riz MC

This amazing song by an amazing artist explains it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfXvKKflBoM
Riz MC: "Sour Times" He also played Brother Omar in the also amazing Four Lions.

[FourScore]

63. What a bimbo! HE OTOH, is FANTASTIC!!!

"These are not riots! They are insurrections!"

My sentiments exactly, sir! People do not riot for sport. They are pushed to a breaking point.

[BlackX-068]

64. That's What They Do!!!!

Degrade you to nothing. It sickens me! You are a rioter yourself...WTF??? Let's not help the situation, but include you as the problem.

Probably what is still fueling the rioting there NOW when they see stupid reporting from the likes of this woman.

[Swede Atlanta]

65. Typical right-wing approach.............

I don't disagree that PM Cameron must restore order in the U.K. but nowhere has he expressed an interest in why people are rioting. I would hope that he would at least have the basic human curiosity to ask why people are so upset. Some of the civil disobedience appears to be the work of British hooligans that make sport of disrupting soccer matches, etc. but I sense this is much deeper than that.

The UK government has embarked on a severe austerity program and is cutting significant numbers of public sector jobs, slashing social and educational programs and shrinking the military to historic lows. This, combined with the already anemic economy, means there are hundreds of thousands of Brits, especially young men and women with low skill levels, with no job prospects. What does he expect them to do? This is their outrage at a country that continues to bankroll the royal family.

The same goes for people that rail against young men and women in Palestine and elsewhere that resort to becoming suicide bombers or engage in other terror acts. I don't condone such acts by any means but when these young people have no sense of hope or future what do people expect them to do?

The same is coming to America if the tea baggers get their way in destroying the American economy. Mark my words there will he riots in the streets and severe violence. It isn't a matter of if, just a matter of when.

[southmost]

66. calling this 'reporter' and idiot was too kind an assessment

the reporter was just another M$M asshole

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[go west young man]

70. Just a few points for the people posting here on both sides.

1. Most Americans might not be familiar with the term YOB. It's basically a good for nothing punk who inflicts violence on others. They come in all colors.
2. The boy who was initially shot by the police did have a gun (which is not common in England). However, he did not fire it.
3. The BBC reporter is obviously trying to direct the narrative. As most MSM types tend to do these days.
4. The gentleman was sincere in his belief but that doesn't excuse the rioting and looting.
5. To fully understand how bad it is in East London check out the film "Harry Brown" starring Michael Caine. That is how it really is.
6. Born and raised Cockney here from Dagenham who knows what's up in London. Scumbags are taking advantage of everything they can.
Not because of social conditions or anything else but because they are lazy, selfish, greedy, arrogant, angry, YOBs. Nothing more.
7. The good people of London get up and work everyday and raise families and protest peacefully. They are also challenged to make
ends meet in this economy but they do it with a smile and they work to make the UK and themselves better. They don't destroy things.
They don't hurt others. They don't steal from others. They face adversity bravely.
8. What's going on in the UK riots is pathetic and sad even if this gentleman did see it coming. The gov't may have blinders on but
what these people are doing is only making matters worse and those cheering on the rioters are on the wrong side.
9. Finally the police in the UK are some of the best in the world. They try to talk and dissuade before using force. Hence no guns normally.
As it is right now it would seem necesarry for the police to be equipped with firearms to quell this unrest. Before more innocent people are killed.
10. To those who side with the rioters please do think before you post. You side with violence. Which leads me to wonder. "What are you doing at a liberal website?"
True liberals are kind hearted people. Not hate mongers. Being a true liberal requires a brain capable of critical thinking. The poster who puts a picture up of man
being robbed of his clothes and writes pay backs a bitch is truly not worthy of posting on DU. DU used to be about intelligent debate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-handgun-lethal-weapon

[vaberella]

72. I think the issue is not the rioters. It's the content of the video.

The woman even implied the man was a rioter himself. She was being completely disrespectful and very infusing a lot of stereotyped jargon into her "direction" of the interview. It was offensive. Agree or not with the rioting, the issue is if you agree or not with the interviewer who was wrong in her approach. Admittedly she was right about not knowing the full facts until more evidence is in play. However the amount of times she talked over him and the ignorance of important information on race relations in London----which is a problem. I know for a fact since I lived in Enfield near Tottenham for 5 years and there was always Pakistani/Indian or Pakistani/Black violence not to mention the racism I dealt with, by some of the folks in the area. She disregarded his statements there as though irrelevant to the issue and continuously suggested his statements touching on that is defense of these actions---which is a false equivalent. Then the suggestion that he was a rioter himself was appalling.

[go west young man]

73. I agree she was leading and goading him. She was shameful.

I understand how the media always tries to direct the narrative. Yet I think he is wrong about the conditions people face.
It's a question of choice. I know how Brixton is mostly black and never changed from 1980 onwards. I see his despair.
But I also know many black people that chose to get out and many Pakistani's that chose to be productive while old white
England complained and slandered dark skinned people. I also see many Muslims reacting peacefully and strongly against
these Yobs. Color really isn't at fault nor is gov't policy. It's a matter of choice. These Yobs would just as soon mug the poor
old man in the video. They choose to be bad. That is the real issue.

I don't agree with British government policy in many ways but I've never thought I had to burn down the city to get my voice heard.
That's just bloody sad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Just did

[caseymoz]

77. One doesn't condone people losing their tempers.

But it happens condoned or not. I mean, look at what the US did after 9/11. People usually cut some slack for somebody who loses their temper with a bully. Usually you can report the bully to the police. What happens when the police are the bullies? Or at least, are the hired guns of the bullies.

[go west young man]

78. The police aren't the bullies.

British police are actually quite nice. Too bloody nice if you ask me. They don't work for
any bullies. Most of them are normal people with nice families. Corruption isn't rampant
in the UK police despite what people may want to believe. They investigate themselves
quite well. Hence the outcomes of both the Menezes and Tomlinson cases. Police found
themselves at fault. Would that happen in the states? Most likely not.

[caseymoz]

114. Then they're nice bullies.

I don't doubt that the British police have a somewhat softer touch, and they are more honest and professional. Never mind that there's also no Fifth Amendment in Britain. That makes their lives easier. :sarcasm:

However, I bet one thing works the same in both countries. I bet the police will defer to the wealthy and target the poor. My father rose to wealth from abject poverty. He said he was amazed when the police stopped acting like thugs and became civil servants. (Just to clarify this: he's white and he felt bullied and oppressed). I've never forgotten that statement, and I'm reminded of it frequently, whenever there's been an unjustified shooting or beating by police. Ever note these don't happen to affluent people? Unless it's somebody of color who police presumed was poor? Don't tell me it's because affluent people behave better.


When the wealthy enact massive cuts in services and social programs, and then tell the police to deal with it as happened in Britain? Then the police are being used directly as an instrument of oppression.

BTW, if there's massive rioting in Britain following the enactment of austerity, just imagine what it will be like here where the police aren't as disciplined and professional and where there's more dishonesty in the ranks.

[GliderGuider]

81. The Beeb is unmasked yet again as the propaganda arm of the British franchise of the global empire.

That is all.

[closeupready]

115. Oh totally. Total propaganda.

Didn't realize that until the last few years, but coverage like this just underscores that fact.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

82. FIGHT THE POWER!

Most of these morons couldn't even tell you who Mr. Duggan was. The riot is not in defense of Mark Duggan, and his family has spoken out against it. Anyone who supports this nonsense and the burning down of a mostly minority community by thugs is an ignorant a-hole, IMO. These riots are a disgrace to the name of the young man killed and draw attention away from the bigger issue.

[Township75]

83. AT least you get it.

This is all an excuse to riot, steal, and have fun for little boys. I bet most of these rioters would be more likely to jump Mr. Duggan than give a damn about him if he were alive today.

If those losers want to steal anything, how about stealing some decent pants. Look at that freaking eye soar on the left in your photo. WTF is he wearing???

[Lint Head]

84. The ruling class is doing this to themselves.

[go west young man]

85. No Yobos are doing this to themselves and others like them.

Go live in London and then get back to us. You'll have a different opinion in no time.

[Lint Head]

89. If I were black and lived there I'm sure I would have a realistic opinion.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

90. If if if....

You're not and you don't! There are plenty of "blacks" who are calling for an end to all of this. A lot of the shops and apartment complexes being burned down are owned by working class blacks or lived in by working class blacks. Its actually pretty racist and disgusting of you to turn this into a "black" issue. You're clueless.

[Lint Head]

119. The man killed by the police was black. Apparently you haven't

seen the video of the grandfather making a fool out of the BBC news reader. It is racism, poverty, disenfranchised youth and class that has caused this. I am not racist and I refuse to get involved in your name calling.

[go west young man]

95. You don't have a clue.

The UK is full of successful black people. It's a matter of choice.
Maybe you've heard of Lewis Hamilton one of the top Formula 1 drivers in the world?
Maybe you've heard of Rio Ferdinand who plays for Man United?
Maybe you've heard of the great actor Idras Elba?
London shops have loads of black landlords. England is very multi cultured these days.
Nigerians have been in London since the 1960's. They came in much larger numbers in
the 1980's. Every country has race problems but color is no excuse for what's happened.

Watch the film "Harry Brown" starring Michael Caine for a realistic view of Yobs.
They are not just black by the way. They come in all colors and they don't give a fuck about anyone
but themselves. Many of the videos posted about the London riots show white thugs.

[joeglow3]

87. NPR had some good interviews on the riots on my ride home yesterday

The majority of the people sounded like drunk teens looking for an excuse to trash a neighborhood. There were a couple who also said it was an assault on the rich (hence, why they were trashing businesses).

The sad reality is that the majority of the individuals taking part have NO political message. It is an excuse to trash and steal.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

93. Its terribly sad.

And its terribly sad to see so called American "progressives" cheer on the destruction of immigrant, working class neighborhoods. It makes me wonder who's side they're really on.....

[go west young man]

97. Your so right.

Progressives don't cheer for violence. DU has become a sad place seeing some of these posts.

[a2liberal]

92. Since when do BBC anchors act like Fox News talking heads?

She wouldn't let him speak!

[mwooldri]

111. Fiona Armstrong should have known better.

She is no talking head. Her past should have given her insight as to what questions to ask. But a couple of dumb questions were asked by her.

Yes it was a laggy satellite link and they spoke over each other.

Also if a point of view is stated by an interviewee and there is an obvious counter-argument, in a post-Hutton BBC it has to be said that there is this alternative view too.

It has been acknowledged that this was a crappy interview and the BBC have apologized. But then Darcus Howe is one smart guy.

[a2liberal]

118. Sorry, I don't believe it was just the satellite link

I don't know as much as you seem to about this anchor, but it was pretty clear to me from her words that she was purposefully cutting him off when he was trying to make his points.

Doesn't a satellite link usually result in gaps/delays and not overlapping communications anyway?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

94. Disgusting.

Three men died last night, protecting what little they had from looters. They weren't rich men, they weren't bankers or stock brokers. They owned little shops in the communities which they worked and lived. Most of the looting going on here is in working class neighborhoods, often full of minorities and immigrants. Working class housing has been torched, small mom and pop shops have been looted and burned to the ground. Some of you need to search down deep in your soul before supporting this thuggery. At one point I considered myself a proud progressive, but if progressives support putting people out of work, burning down their housing and destroying their way of life (especially if those people live across the ocean and THEY themselves don't have to deal with the consequences) then I guess I'm not a "progressive" anymore. Some of you people are really sick.

[NOLALady]

98. So,

if the rude behavior of the anchor person is denounced, it means we support violence. OK.:shrug:

[ForgoTheConsequence]

101. That's not what I said.

If you read some of the threads here there are plenty of people cheering on whats happening like its a revolution. One person posted a picture of a young man getting robbed of all his clothes in the middle of the street and praised what was happening! The death of a young man who was shot is buried in the back page while these thugs get the front page, it's a disgrace to his name.

[chervilant]

107. Perhaps DU is a mirror?

We humans are manifesting a level of mental dis-ease that is both frightening and corrosive. Far too many of us are in react mode, driven by inchoate fears and resentments. Far too many of us are willing to pollute our spirits with negativity, eagerly engaging in blaming, name-calling and other forms of vilification. Far too many of us are willing to glorify violence or resort to violence, often just for entertainment or personal gratification.

We seldom acknowledge the import of overpopulation, but Calhoun's research with rats has proven that when a critical level of overpopulation occurs, the outcome isn't pretty. With rats, abnormal sexual behavior, hyper-aggression, eating their young, and increased mortality are a few of the problems that occurred. With humans...well, isn't it past time we acknowledge that our species has passed a critical tipping point?

When I was younger (and naive) I thought our species was in its adolescence--obsessed with sex, drugs, and all other forms of self-gratification, especially as regards our economic behaviors. However, I've come to understand that overpopulation is THE macro-level manifestation of our species' hedonism.

Regardless of how much energy we devote to denying the ravages of overpopulation, they are writ large in our increasingly sophisticated, increasingly corrosive socio-cultural and technological constructs--the very same constructs we use to remain in denial, and to externalize responsibility for our collective hubris.

Bearing this in mind, I feel overwhelmed with disappointment about the choices we humans (as a collective) have been making, because we seem to be moving inexorably back into 'balance' on a planetary scale. When it's time for Gaia to roll over and scrape us off Her backside, we’ll just have to go along for the ride. The inevitable consequences of our hedonism and denial of personal responsibility promise to be extreme.

[go west young man]

99. Welcome to DU by the way.

Sorry some of these commenter's are so pathetic. I've never seen it this bad to be honest.
I've posted here since 2004 and it used to be much more thoughtful and insightful.
I honestly can't say why so many people agree with the yobs here. I put it down to them
not knowing the terrain. If they lived in Hackney or Brixton they would have a completely
different take. I think they would be kissing themselves some police arse.

[Roger Floyd]

103. I agree.

[NYC_SKP]

96. The news woman said "your grandson's being searched countless times is no excuse to riot".

Countless times without cause.

His grandson said he couldn't even put a number on the times he's been searched by the police.

She says it's not an excuse.

I see it differently.

x(

[felix_numinous]

104. A real journalist would allow this man to tell his whole story

-and go out and collect whole stories from everyone, and then compile them into a narrative that would allow everyone to understand the event. These TV personalities are only pretending to be journalists.

In this way all the vital messages, stories and learning opportunities are swept under for so long that people give up trying to be reasonable. Everyone out in the streets is out there for their own reason, some to loot and others to express pent up rage from being profiled all their lives.

People can only be abused for so long, global social unrest is evidence of this. Then one event, a botched election, or blatant murder of a citizen will spark the layers of anger that exist right under the facade of peace.

People become irrational when pent up rage finally erupts, and do things in groups and crowds that they would never do individually. This has happened in this country too, and as long as people are forced to live in squalid conditions with no hope of jobs or homes or healthcare, while they watch an increasingly privileged class make off with all the goods--it is inevitable to happen again.

People in the US are dealing with SO many overwhelming personal issues, from being profiled to lost jobs, hospital bills, foreclosures, lost farms, ecological disasters--that I cannot for the life of me understand why our representatives do not see the writing on the wall.

Social Equality=Domestic Security!! FDRs 2nd Bill of Rights needs to be made permanent law--or our country will be in dire trouble.

[go west young man]

105. Another DU'er with no clue of the facts.

You say a "blatant murder of a citizen". I say an unfinished investigation into the police shooting of a gangster with a gun.
The UK's social problems aren't even close to the civil unrest in Egypt or Tunisia or Libya. England has plenty of opportunity
still. These gangsters choose their own path as we all do. Social inequality does exist but it's no excuse for violence or thievery.
Don't lower yourself and condone it. It's beneath DU.

[felix_numinous]

106. I do not condone violence.

I am just commenting on how social unrest happens. Wow,

[go west young man]

108. You commented that the police blatantly murdered this gangster.

[mwooldri]

112. A quick interview, a poor link and poor questions.

Fiona Armstrong has had many years working as a journalist, and as a news anchor. So she is no talking head bimbo like Fox News.

However, those questions she asked were very poor.

The BBC has publically apologized, on air and on line.

This was a live event, with witness reports and commentary from on the scene. Things go wrong, and they did on a number of levels.

As for compiling narratives and capturing all sides of the story - that happens later on for later reports.

[LeftishBrit]

113. +1

[NOLALady]

116. Correct.

People with no hope have nothing to lose. Things can only get worse as long as inequality is not addressed.

[nxylas]

109. Good to see that Mr Howe is still around

Last I heard, he was terminally ill.