Chris Hedges: Why I Will Be There

[marmar]

Run time: 03:36 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaCufTW9ID4   Posted on YouTube: August 04, 2011 By YouTube Member: October2011org Views on YouTube: 1930   Posted on DU: August 05, 2011 By DU Member: marmar Views on DU: 6297

 

[Firebrand Gary]

1. Good Stuff

[susu369]

2. Dead center

*nt*

[mahina]

3. The thing is

as much as I agree with a lot of what he said, going to a protest on a pretty Sunday afternoon and going home isn't going to do anything.

Had you asked me 10 years ago, I'd say let's go have a protest!

[marmar]

4. I think the plan is not to go home, from what I've heard about it.

nt

[mahina]

5. Well then, good!

:)

[Fuddnik]

29. I'm going, I'm staying.

Got a sleeping bag, next I'll pick up a tent.

Round-trip on Amtrak, with an open return date.

Shut DC down!

[rbnyc]

46. +1 (nt)

[Chimichurri]

6. k&r

[TomClash]

7. Protests in DC

Civil disobedience? No one will care.

He's guilty of the same white liberal bourgeois bullshit that much of his writing lambasts.

[vrp]

15. Nonsense!

Having read his book, "Death of the Liberal Class", which is the best book on the subject I've ever read, I don't believe Hedges is full of "bourgeois bullshit", as you say. He gets it!. Our current fight is not between Democrat and Republican, but rather between the filthy rich and the working poor. No democrat would ever say that. Bernie Sanders understands this concept, but he's not a Democrat. This is a class war between the capitalist class and the dying working class. The state is terrified of civil disobedience, which is why the state works so hard to prevent it. Educate yourself! Yes, Marx was right.

[TomClash]

17. Thanks so much for the lesson

I have read a few of his books, including "Death of the Liberal Class." I also read his column.

I agree with the "class war" meme of your post, but it really is absurd to say "the State is terrified of civil disobedience." You can sit in, turn on , tune on, protest and shout, but the powers that be couldn't care less. None of that threatens the power of the oligarchy that holds power in this country or world.

[Amonester]

19. I guess Mubarak in Egypt was not part of the oligarchy then.

Look, a non-stop "Tahir Square" like demonstration of peaceful civil desobedience is perhaps all we've got left for REAL hope, followed by REAL change. Nobody knows what good it will ACTUALLY accomplish, but do you really think it's not worth a try?

If not, what in the world else do you suggest?

Peace

[TomClash]

26. A military junta runs Egypt

with Israel's favorite politician at the helm. I don't think that is what you had in mind.

There are intelligent alternatives to the milquetoast DC protests. They won't react to those. You must make them react to your actions or your actions are futile.

I have ideas but I won't discuss them here.

[sabrina 1]

28. The Egyptian Revolutionaries stated when Mubarak was removed

that this was the first step. Did you really think an entire political structure could be dismantled in just 18 days? They didn't. So they continue, but the got off to a good start and those leaders elsewhere who like you, think that protests are 'milquetoast and useless' around the Arab world AND elsewhere, are shaking in their own boots as their own people take to the streets.

But I do agree that once people get to DC they have to occupy it for as long as it takes. Going home after a day won't do a thing. As far as I know, this demonstration will not be ending after a day. People have learned that their governmetns don't care about them. So, the people will have to make them start caring.

I'm sure they will have their robo cops and Blackwater mercenaries and CIA operatives there, which absolutely demonstrates just how much they worry about the people 'peacably assembling'.

[TomClash]

39. I didn't call the Egyptian protests milquetoast

And it's more like 220 days, not 18.

We'll see. I suspect it will fall short of your expectations. They don't need robocops and Blackwater and CIA operatives to do anything. There's no serious threat from "protests."

[sabrina 1]

42. It took 18 days of protests to oust Mubarak. About the same

number of days to oust Tunisia's Ben Ali. My point was that contrary to the claims that the revolution failed because the Military is now in control, Egyptians knew all along that ousting the Dictator was only the first phase of the Revolution. You seemed to think it had failed. They are NOT naive and throughout the time before Mubarak left, most of the revolutionaries said over and over again this was just step one.

And a year ago, Mubarak too thought there was 'no serious threat from "protests". When people are pushed far enough, things change.

[TomClash]

56. Other external forces intervened . . .

. . . to install Suleiman. Mubarak's time was up.

I would love it if everyone on this Board was right and we had real change in the US through sit-ins and protests. It would be great if everyone could say, "Tom Clash, you blockhead, we told you so!" Unfortunately, it's not happening. A sophisticated apparatus has been built to prevent that. The Oligarchy will not allow it. They will retain power by any means necessary.

[sabrina 1]

58. Sulieman was not accepted by the people. And hopefully

he will be prosecuted for his crimes also. Mubarak's time was NOT up as far as his Global allies were concerned. They did everything they could to try to save him until it became apparent that they could not control the people anymore. THEN, they tried to find other means of installing someone THEY could trust. But if you think this is over, it is not. Far from it and it will never again be the same, compliant country it was under Mubarak and his Western allies.

To diminish the victory of the Egyptian people is not to understand at all what happened there and what continues to happen.

Same thing in Tunisia, and it is spreading, around the world, as country after country rises up against the oligarchs.

South America has been the most successful so far, although the foreign influences that kept that region of the world in the same condition they kept the ME for so long, still have not given up.

Now, it's Europe and the US. We thought we were exempt from the policies that kept these other regions of the world under Global Corps control. When enough people wake up, things will be begin to change here also.

I am sure no one thought the Founding Fathers could prevail against the British Empire either. History shows that when the tide begins to turn, as it is, around the globe right now, no matter how powerful the Empire or the Monarchy or whatever, nothing is more powerful than the human spirit when it unites in a common cause. We are not there yet, obviously. People here are still clinging to their political parties, but it IS changing.

[TomClash]

59. The Founding Fathers triumph against the British

arose from a revolutionary war.

[sabrina 1]

60. Yes, and they were mocked and laughed at throughout

Britain for thinking they had a chance of winning that war. As I said, the most important element in every historical victory by the powerless over the powerful, has been the human spirit. And that is rarely calculated in by the arrogant and powerful as they, for so long, view the powerless as, to use Alan Simpson's words 'lesser people'.

That is the surprise element that always gets them in the end. But we, in the US are not at that point yet. So many other countries around the world are, though, and it can be catching.

[leeroysphitz]

33. Angry letters? n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

34. Why would you admit to "ideas" that you aren't willing to discuss?

Do you think you'll be labeled as a subversive?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

27. Mubarak and Ben Ali would disagree with you.

[TomClash]

38. ThePeople of Egypt don't see it from Mubarak's viewpoint nt

[Scruffy1]

31. They care when the drones quit supporting the parasites.

Politics is a massive fail. It will take direct action to implement change. it always has and it always will.

[TomClash]

40. What does "Direct Action" mean to you?

I think you are right, but some forms are more effective than others.

[KT2000]

47. The 60s and early 70s

showed a very terrified oligarchy. You may reacall that they were so frightened of black people actually having access to power that the FBI infiltrated groups and killed - as in Fred Hampton et.al.

Many groups were infiltrated and moved into violence through the infiltrators efforts.
Kent State was a severely frightened oligarchy.

The difference now is not how the power responds but how willing the people are to protest. There does not seem to be the will now that there was in the 60s and 70s.

[TomClash]

48. I thought of this

But I think it is incomplete. It does not account for 30 years of brainwashing, increased and expanded medication, and an exponential increase in the power of the State in all respects.

They are not afraid of us. At all.

There are ways to change that. "Protest" is not one of them.

[marions ghost]

61. It will probably take every form of protest or

strategy you can think of...together. (Non-violent) They are synergistic. It's not either/or.

[vrp]

49. I disagree.

The power elite spends an incredible amount of time and money to make certain that the passive sheep never wakes up. We haven't seen civil disobediance in this country since the '60s when our cities and college campuses were burning. The state elite IS terrified of civil disobedience, and will do anything to stop it. What do you think the Patriot Act was all about. It certainly wasn't to keep us safe from terrorists. What do you think all those guys dressed up like turtles at the Republican Convention in St Paul was all about. Getting a permit and walking around with a sign is not civil disobedience. Americans have become doped up sheep. I believe Hedges is right on the money. He's a breath of fresh air.

[Bluesbreaker]

44. You're wrong.

Whether the issue is union rights, civil rights or civil liberties, it's always been civil disobedience that was the catalysts for change. It's obviously not going to happen through the electoral process. Look at what we've got now.

[TomClash]

45. Did I say anything about the electoral process? nt

[Bluesbreaker]

51. I didn't say you did . . .

Do I need your permission to add my POV? If civil disobedience is ruled out, that leaves few options. I want to add preemptively that elections are not one of them. That leaves violent revolution and acceptance of a future many find unacceptable.

[TomClash]

55. You were responding to my post

If you simply wanted to add your POV you could do that anywhere in the thread.

I don't see any evidence demonstrating that protests have accomplished much over the last three decades. Much more needs to be done.

[DeSwiss]

57. You are unfortunately.....

...but nonetheless absolutely, CORRECT. And what you say is especially true, now that we live in a POLICE STATE. Once Capitalism gained complete control of our government they had no need to worry about our silly protests and demonstrations. It's way past the time since that was effective.

- We know what the true price of our freedom is, we just don't want to have to pay it......

[certainot]

8. 1000 coordinated UNCONTESTED radio stations are a lot louder than any protest - protest the radio st

stations.

those RW radio stations are driving the republican attack at the local level- that is where the Tea Party get their 'facts'.

politicians don't need to listen to protesters because 1000 coordinated radio stations because those radio stations are much louder.

limbaugh and hannity cheerleaded us into this. they ensure the GOP congress votes lock step. they enforce the grover norquist direction.

those coordinated radio stations need to become the focus of protests, shaming and boycotts of local sponsors. until these carnival barkers are no longer terrorizing US politicians and politics on behalf of RW think tanks that feed them we're fucked and those protests are easily minimized.

[xchrom]

9. Recommend

[Mosaic]

10. Recommended

Liberalism isn't dead Chris, it's just beginning.

[border_town]

11. I am going to try to

make it up there.

[midnight]

12. K&R

[JJW]

13. Too late

we need real action like, general strike and not paying taxes.

[Amonester]

20. Why not start that general strike there?

Otherwise, where else do you suggest it should start?

Thanks

[matmar]

36. Did you know that national strikes are illegal?

Although I believe they are illegal precisely because they are effective.

Just saying.

[Amonester]

50. Have you ever thought about why it's called civil disobedience?

Simple. Because it wouldn't be civil disobedience if it was, indeed, legal...

Just saying. :hi:

[swilton]

14. kickety rickety

[Riley18]

16. I would like to go if I can afford the trip from Florida. It feels like too little too late though

for my family. I am helping several members of my family who are either unemployed or underemployed. I wonder how many other people are in the same situation as I am?

[civilisation]

18. very passionate speaking,. will anyone actually go?

Excellent sting of thoughts,. indignant poetry.

Having watched the American people do next to nothing to thwart these fascist advances for the last 10 years,. why will they now act?
It seems people range from being too complacent to care ("I gots mines"),. to being resolved to the inevitable.("problem too big") I am not sure there are enough folks left in the middle to actually try. We know voting in a Democratic majority achieved so very little,. or slowed the tide but a drop. Something more radical is urgently needed. a new system perhaps..,

Stop supporting the system as much as possible,. while actively building alternatives to it that work properly, like permaculture. i.e. avoid paying taxes (war/prison funding) while becoming more self-sufficient. Big things die slowly, and may thrash about,. . good luck.

[Amonester]

21. You must be kidding, right?

Washington D.C. is a pretty big enough city by itself. It's not in the middle of nowhere, and there will be hundreds, if not thousands of people there (see the picture of Freedom Plaza at the link in my sigline) on Oct. 6 (if not earlier...).

[fasttense]

22. Meet me in October

I'll be there. I took the pledge. I will not go home until something is done.

For those who have given up already, for those who say it will never work, it's too late to protest. I say look at Egypt, look at Wisconsin. Then look at who is controlling us. They are a handful of evil, little men who have stolen our national wealth and think we are too lazy to do anything about it. They think we are afraid of them. They want us to despair. They want us to give up. They want us to think it wont work because they know in their hearts it will work. It always has worked. The trick is to stay and NOT return to our not so comfortable lives after one day, one week or one month. Stay and be counted.

It will work because President Obama can NOT stand up to pressure. He gives in at every turn to the RepubliCON corporate elite and stupid little teabaggers. He wont be able to stand up to us either. He will give in because that is his nature.

We have tried everything else to change the creeping fascism that our corporate leaders have put into place. What have we got to lose now? Doing nothing will ensure all our Social Security is taken to line the pockets of Wall Street. Doing nothing will guarantee that our social safety net is ripped apart to let our grandmothers and children die in the streets. We can NOT let this happen.

They are just a handful of sick little men while we are hundreds of millions of angry, strong and resilient people. We are use to the lack of luxury. We are use to getting by, we can defeat these petty tyrants who are protected by their wealth. They can not long endure the hardships we face daily.

Don't stand on the sidelines throwing spitballs. Stand up, be strong, be counted and fight back. At least at the end of the day you can honestly say you tried everything.

[Che Billy]

23. I can dream, can't I?

Could you imagine if he was our President right now instead of Mr Spineless?

[Jim_Shorts]

24. The revolution will not be televised, The revolution will be live

Hope to see you there chris

the revolution : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS3QOtbW4m0

[seeker4ever]

25. This is the beginning. Let's work toward a general strike and massive civil disobedience.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[raouldukelives]

30. k&r

[rbnyc]

32. Are you going? Are you thinking about it? Do this poll:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1672532

[matmar]

35. I'd love to go but can't because 10/6/11 is a THURSDAY!?!

Why couldn't they do this on a weekend so that more people could attend?

Or is the point to shut down DC on a weekday?

[marmar]

41. "Or is the point to shut down DC on a weekday?"

Yes, and they plan to stay.

[MrMickeysMom]

37. I don't think my excuse is a good one...

I reserved and paid for an airline ticket to a class reunion at that time.

On the other hand, if people are in Washington as a result of this, it makes perfect sense to join them, as there is no excuse NOT to join them.

I understand the seriousness of this, and it's actually taken me aback, as I have such respect for this guy.

Civil disobedience IS all we have left. That, and perhaps the float time one gets on their credit card. Not too many advantages remain of living in what used to be a free country.

[proud patriot]

52. I Need to fund raise or something I want to be there so bad

:-) I HATE being POOR. ALMS for the poor , I want to defend the American People Please help me to go.

[Douglas Carpenter]

54. kick and recommend