A Christmas Message from Bill Maher.

[Charleston Chew]

Run time: 02:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsqBa03ITlc   Posted on YouTube: December 25, 2010 By YouTube Member: atheistkyo Views on YouTube: 159   Posted on DU: December 25, 2010 By DU Member: Charleston Chew Views on DU: 6199

 
Bill Maher: Religion/ Spirituality = Greed

[Philly219]

1. He's right

People will do anything to acquire things. But, he also knocks anyone who has a genuine religious belief. What's sad is those folks are in a minority.

[zeemike]

6. But he is also right.

And even those that believe must recognize that it was predicted to be so by the bible.
It says that religion will be false and that they will worship Mammon....which is the god of material goods.
No mater what he believes himself he is just pointing what he sees....and that it is the worship of Mammon.

[defendandprotect]

24. He is right ...

in more ways than one --

organized patriarchal religion is the giver of the license to exploit

nature, natural resources, animal life -- and even human beings according

to various myths of inferiority.

That's what "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" are all about --

licenses for the elite to exploit.

It's also the underpinning for male supremacy --

No one needs organized patriarchal religion to be spiritually connected to one another,

nature, the planet -- or the universe.

[Joe Bacon]

43. Religious materialists aren't in the minority.

It doesn't matter what the religion is, every one of them promise you pie in the sky when you die as long as you go with the flow. Christians who talk the Jesus talk, but walk the Ayn Rand walk, Buddhists who chant at an altar thinking its a one armed bandit that will eventually pay off, Hindus who believe in eternal castes, as well as other cults that equate spirituality with materialistic gain--well, they all follow the same purpose--to chain the masses and keep them down.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. I had the same exact reaction to the big Oprah giveaways.....

It appeared to be a prime opportunity for corporations to get a lot of free publicity by donating all that stuff...I am sure Oprah did not buy any of the stuff she gave away....
and it might have been a wonderful thing if it had been a little more within the realm of reasonability..but it was sooooooooo over the top as to appear more like a parody of generosity than actual generosity.

I did not take away from Maher's message any condemnation of those who truly believe, and give of themselves to those in need.

A sad, painful truth...in this country, and many others, I am sure, the only deity with real power is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Maher did not equate true sprituality/religion with greed. He merely pointed out that to many, greed is the new religion.

[Mark D.]

33. Maher Nails It

He's not being anti-Christian, he's pointing out how Christmas has become a 'gimme' holiday. I respect that view, though I'm also Christian. I would enjoy if Maher would outright one day explain his supposedly being 'libertarian'. Since he seems more liberal than that. I mean that in a good way. It's better to be liberal than libertarian. I mean as much as we of faith take our religion seriously, Libertarians have their own sort of faith. Faith in an unregulated free market, without social safety nets. Things I don't think he may not agree with, and he's not the first to call himself Libertarian who also shows some liberalism quite often.

Libertarians most often base their 'faith' on the atheist Ayn Rand. Now before the atheists twist their undies, here is what I mean. I believe Ayn Rand was against Christianity, not for its prohibition on sexuality and reproductive issues (since she had issues with other people's sexuality, and one of her top followers, Ron Paul, is anti-choice). I mean she had problems with the TRUE, and most prominent thing Christians should focus on. What Christ spoke of most. Altruism, charity. Pay unto Rome what is Rome's (pro-taxation as needed). Sell all you have and give it to the poor (income redistribution socialism). Sorry Atheists, it's true.

Jesus was a pacifist liberal who believed government (in his day, Rome) had its place. The Jerry Fallwells of the world have bastardized that. They are NOT Christians. Any Libertarian asshole with a 'let them starve' attitude who claims to be Christian is not. But materialism goes beyond Christians. Many jumping for joy in Oprah's audience were likely not the least bit Christian or even spiritual. Christmas to them was a 'gift giving time', at most, and they are materialist mammonists. As are the sociopathic elite who run big business who run the government by lobbyist bribes, and are running America into the ground as we speak.

[BrklynLiberal]

49. +1

:thumbsup:

[Moonwalk]

63. About that "Sorry, Atheists, it's true...." part....

You said: "What Christ spoke of most. Altruism, charity. Pay unto Rome what is Rome's (pro-taxation as needed). Sell all you have and give it to the poor (income redistribution socialism). Sorry Atheists, it's true."

Well, first you have to prove that Christ existed. Can you prove this? Second, you have to prove that everything written in the New Testaments as being said by him was, indeed, said by him. Can you do this? If you can't, then, sorry, Christian, it's not true. What is true is that the "rule book" on which Christian cults are constructed speaks most of these things--that is true. But whether Christ said it? All that's "true" there is that you believe it's true. Which is fine by me, and puts me in agreement with you that the materialist attitude is not "Christian."

My point, however, is that your "sorry" implies that you think atheists don't agree with charity or atheism. Or that we'd disagree that they were "Christian." Why do you assume we'd do that? Last I looked, charity and altruism were a part of Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism as well as Christianity. Why would you think I or any other atheist here would try to deny this?

In short, I'd like to ask you to try to do unto me and other atheists here as you would have us do unto you. You'd find it insulting if I mentioned that the age of the Earth was billions of years old and then added a patronizing: 'Sorry Christians but it's true!" as if all Christians are Creationists who believe only in Genesis. So please don't insult or patronize us atheists by assuming that we all (like Rand) are so stupid that we'd refuse to acknowledge--or agree with--anything, no matter how good and valid, that came from a religious rule-book.

[Lorien]

41. Yep. Down here in Orlando there's an attraction called "The Holy Land Experience"

which is right across the road from a huge mall filled with luxury shops called "The Mall at Millennia". They were both built around the same time, and a friend of mine has noted from the beginning that the Mall is America's true place of worship. People sure seem a lot more excited to go there.

[BrklynLiberal]

50. Bingo. Guess that is why Reverend Billy felt the need to start The Church

of Life After Shopping..
http://www.revbilly.com/

[CrispyQ]

55. it was sooooooooo over the top as to appear more like a parody of generosity than actual generosity.

Perfectly stated.

[Enthusiast]

3. Imagine the good

that Oprah could have done over the years if her program actually had substance. She has promoted reading. I guess that is one positive.

[defendandprotect]

25. When she first began the show, it did have substance, because she was competing

at that time with Phil Donahue who wasn't corruptable --

after Phil was gone, Oprah's show began to change gradually into this.

Think also her efforts re letting the public know about what's realy in "meat"

also pushed her off the tracks -- !! I'm sure many will remember the law suit --

she won, but we all also lost!! Heavy crackdown by corporations after that on any truth

re animals - feed, animal slaughter, contamination of animal products, etal.

But most especially heavy attack on any criticism of the entire industry.

[Enthusiast]

53. You're right.

I had forgotten about her statements on ground beef that so angered the Texas beef industry. Since then her programs have been far less controversial. It appears to me that the corporations have tamped her down, way down.

[AsahinaKimi]

4. Bill is absolutely

Right.

[sirthomas66]

5. Have no use for Oprah anymore.

[ZombieHorde]

22. Because her show is over? nt

[sirthomas66]

54. No, because I think her giving is more for self-aggrandizement now

than appreciation for the needs of others. Just my perception. I could be wrong. She told a story a few years ago about her and Gail King going into car dealership. And it turned me off of Oprah big time.

[timefortherevolution]

7. Thanks Bill. What a great message.

[Paranoid Pessimist]

8. Actually, it shows to go ya how emotionally deadened Americans have become

Remember, ye who are no longer so young, how once an audience could be gotten to that state of excitement because the performance was so good? What it's come to now is to get the shot they want, audience members in a state of tearful hysterical joy, there must be bribes.

Do people who go see Oprah or Ellen Degeneris who don't happen to hit it on a giveaway day leave indignantly disappointed? Do all live audiences now expect "lovely parting gifts"?

When this wears thin and stops getting the great reaction, where will we go from there?

Joy to the world
The host has come
Let folks receive their bling.

Let every heart
Cheer for her
Let sponsors and backers sing
Let sponsors and backers sing
Go home bearing presents
Let sponsors sing

[Hamlette]

9. That's what the whole "war on Christmas" SHOULD be about.

I've long thought real Christians would complain about the gross display that the holiday has become.

But then capitalism would fail. So, on we go.

[BobbyBoring]

17. Real Christians??

I agree 100%. I've reached the point where I hate X Mas almost as much as religion because of the total distortion of it~

[defendandprotect]

26. They've started later now, but this Xmas nonsense still begins in October and

a few days ago, I began getting "after Xmas" sales catalogs!!

[snappyturtle]

30. Amen. nt

[CrispyQ]

10. Life is about the things you do, not the things you have. ~Chris in the Morning

Our society is grossly out of sync.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Mixed feelings about a rich man criticizing a rich woman who is giving

things away to people who can't afford to buy things that the rich man can afford.

[sulphurdunn]

12. Ad hominem fallacy.

The merits of the message (or lack thereof) bear no logical relationship to the messenger.

[Beartracks]

18. You are correct. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

21. He seems to be criticizing the people who are freaking out and seem to be having a

religious experience from receiving gifts.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. I still have a problem with that.

We don't know anything about these people. Who are we to criticize someone else's good fortune when it really doesn't intrude into our rights. Believe me, there's plenty of people grabbing things that do not belong to them. Why get upset with people who have something that might bring a little joy into their lives?

[defendandprotect]

27. Because these people are being exploited to sell a show ....

otherwise, Oprah would be giving them the gifts AFTER the show -- not on the air.

Corporations are receiving "free" advertising for their products based on Oprah and

the audience playign this game.

Remember giving anonymously? That's another point about giving which is important.

It is also impossible not to connect this "ectasy" with the religious ectasy we see

often relating to a religious experience -- most often connected to male-supremacist

religion which sends a message which also has done great damage to nations --

and to minds and hearts of individuals!

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. If this is about a random act of kindness,

he should have made it clearer. If he's criticizing Oprah for being openly flamboyant with her kindness for rating purposes, that's one thing. But I don't agree with exploiting the emotional response from the people in the show. If that's the case, you wouldn't approve of what Maury Povich is doing. I just saw his show and Maury shamelessly video-taped a man who had an emotional breakdown when he found out he wasn't the father of his girlfriend's kid. If it's about the ratings, then let's make it about the ratings.

[defendandprotect]

32. It's about exploitation --

Oprah's exploitation of the audience -- and their reactions -- for her show --

and the manufacturer's exploitation of the show and the audience for free publicity --

and free advertising for their products --

If he's criticizing Oprah for being openly flamboyant with her kindness for rating purposes, that's one thing.

When Oprah's "kindness" and her show's ratings are this closely connected, how would you tell

the difference between them?

But I don't agree with exploiting the emotional response from the people in the show.

Well, obviously that's what's being done -- not only an over the top emotional response, but

one which mimics states of religious hysteria.

I've never seen Maury Povich show -- and hope I never do -- but certainly wouldn't approve

of anything like you're describing!


Perhaps we're all supposed to be grateful that it's a break in TV violence, at least?

[BrklynLiberal]

51. +1000. I think you may have hit upon something there.

Oprah can be kind and generous as much as, and to whom she wants..but the spectacle of it is what is the turnoff.

She could have done all of this quietly and without fanfare, and the recipients would have been just as happy.

Making a publicity stunt out of the generosity sort of makes one wonder about the motivation, and certainly makes the
entire process seem tainted..

[CrispyQ]

56. The macaroni & cheese that was behind the gift box was reminiscent of "Let's Make a Deal!"

:rofl:

[Moonwalk]

36. No, we don't know anything about these people...however...

...if these people are those in need, then (1) they are being exploited by Oprah--as pointedly said in the other post, she's not giving things anonymously, but rather making sure their tears of joy spotlights her generosity and celebrity, and (2) she's using them to sell those products to viewers, and (3) If they're really in need, why give them big screen televisions? If things are that dire for them, can they even afford the cable bill to watch shows on the television?

There was a recent article about how many holiday gift-givers this year are giving groceries because people are that much in need. I seriously doubt that the audience was that badly off, but imagining that they were, wouldn't it be better to give them what they most need? Be it a job, food, gas money, a year's rent, new clothes for the kids? Why a big screen tv? As I think Bill was trying to point out, the delirious joy of these people over things like flat screen tvs shows that our culture has lost it's Xmas spirit. We are forever imagining that we will find spiritual bliss in wealth and all wealth can bring (like flat screen tvs), rather than seeing how good our life is just because we can afford groceries.

Oprah did the wrong thing for all the wrong reasons. And the thing that is most chilling, and--again--what I think Bill was trying to say, is that the trick worked. She not only succeeded in casting herself in the role of generosity Angel, but encouraged American worship of conspicuous consumption rather than using her powers for "good"--i.e. encouraging people to trim back, think of the planet, think of others, and maybe do without to make the world a better place.

Which is why, I think, that Bill tossed in that comment about us "worshiping Jesus"--because so many say they are Christians and fight for "Merry Christmas" yet their actions--as seen on Oprah--run counter to all Jesus taught and all Christianity is supposed to be about. "And Jesus said to the rich man, 'Go forth, sell all of your goods, come and walk with me'." Bill is an atheist and not in favor of religion, but keep in mind he was raised Catholic. He does know what Christianity is supposed to be about, and what Oprah did on her show wasn't it.

[BrklynLiberal]

52. +1000

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

64. I certainly hope their Oprah shit came with a 1099-MISC

I had to report a gift basket of shit from a hotel on a 1099, I certainly hope the Oprah freaks are too.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf

[Lorien]

40. Maher is merely well off. Oprah is one of the richest women on the planet.

Maher walks the walk by driving a Prius to work while Oprah takes a limo.

[Charleston Chew]

13. if there was ever a reason

to not celebrate this holiday it would be the footage of people "shopping".

[gateley]

14. Amen! nt

[ProfessionalLeftist]

15. Oprah - Pfft

Corprats give her that stuff for promotional purposes so she can dump it on her show. The woman has issues, IMO. What a pretentious witch. Never had any use for her.

[eilen]

37. When she exhorted her "viewers/followers" to continue

to go out to eat but reduce their tip to only 10% instead of 20% to economize... gee, how generous. Stiffing servers. Soon after that they announced she would be ending the show.

[Lorien]

39. She really advised people to cut tips to servers??

Holy crap. That's just evil. Servers barely make enough to get by, and it's exhausting work. I only leave less that 20% if the service was truly awful...and I'm cash strapped too, but it's a matter of "doing unto others", etc.

[progressoid]

46. Yep

She isn't giving away shit on those shows. Those companies are. That's some of the best advertising they can get.

[Quantess]

16. I'll have to watch this when I get home.

[craigmatic]

19. Well he's right now back to openining all the extra shit I don't need. :)

[TheUnspeakable]

20. k&r

[bluerum]

28. Jesus in a sweater. I weep.

[swilton]

31. Ugly Amerikans

[NorthCarolina]

34. He is so right, but when I saw him in the Santa outfit

in the snow globe, the first thing that came to mind was a Santa from an old 70's horror movie

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ANciG41IGJU/TPXGIA_zOeI/AAAAAAAABRc/9qEMLdEXKNs/s1600/all+through+the+house+tales+from+the+crypt+joan+collins.jpg

[martymar64]

48. I remember that movie! HaHa!

My favorite Santa is the robot one from Futurama. It judges everyone Naughty and unleashes a night of terror every Xmas.

[Honeycombe8]

35. So SO true. Excellent message. I'm glad someone said it. All those shows...

especially game shows...have always hit me that way: greed (people frothing at the mouth and acting stupid over the possibility of winning some cash for doing almost nothing).

At Christmas time, of all times, shouldn't the message be to GIVE? Not to get a bunch of crap you don't even need or maybe even want?

We're all guilty of greed to some degree, I guess. But these shows on TV....they seem worse. I can't say that I've ever jumped up and down and frothed at the mouth because I might get a DVD player. I bet you haven't, either.

[Lorien]

38. Agree absolutely. Want to end the desire for "stuff"? Turn off the damn TV!

Truly. It's commercials and commercialism that drive our obsessed consumer culture. Ten years I cut the cable and now only watch videos via Netflix, DVDs from the public library, and stuff on DU like this clip. I don't real magazines either. And ever since I decided to avoid any commercials of any kind I've stopped wanted more than what I have already. Sure, sometimes I need a new software program or book for work, or a new pair of jeans when the old ones get too ratty... other than work related stuff and replacements for things that are broken or worn I manage to avoid shopping, and it's a great feeling, too. Now I focus on things that add meaning to my life, like friends and creative outlets. I admit it; I wasn't completely immune to advertising when I was plugged into the MSM, and that's why I've chosen to UNplug it.

[NJCher]

59. Me, too

I mute all commercials and have for years and years. I only listen to public radio, never regular radio. I buy subscriptions to programs I can put on my iPod because that way the commercials are cut out. As far as my consumer buying habits, they are pretty much the same yours.

The irony, of course, is that I am a university professor who teaches....advertising. I also write and produce it as a freelance. I spent well over a decade in the business so I know how it works. That's a major reason I won't expose myself to it.

Anyway, what I wanted to say about this video clip is that I really can't understand how anybody can get so excited about getting a "thing." Anymore, my attitude toward "things" is that I don't want them. It's aggravation--just have to find space for it, clean it, etc.



Cher

[Lorien]

61. Heheh, I used to work in advertising too, and that was my minor in college

it's funny; when you know what a manipulative mind fuck it is you really don't want to expose yourself to it.

And I feel the same way you do about "stuff"; I see most of it as aggravating clutter. I've been in the process of downsizing since I went TV free, and I'm looking forward to the day when I only have things in my home which are either useful, beautiful, or have deep sentimental value (photos, favorite books from childhood, etc).

[UrbScotty]

42. My religion has kept me from being greedy.

And others too, I'm sure.

[AnneD]

47. ITA,

so much of Christ's message has been subverted and perverted.

It is not dominion over, but stewardship of and the wise use of our blessings.

It is not about our treasures here on Earth, but our treasure in heaven.

It is not about giving for aggrandizement, but giving from the heart (anon helps assure that).

It is not giving in hopes of a reward, it is giving to make you a better person, closer image of our God. And ALL are made in the image of God and have worth.

It is about sharing with a cheerful heart and willing hand even those who despise us or whom we despise.

It is about rising above our selfish nature.

That, IMHO, was the message that has gotten lost. I love Christmas because I have the chance to ramp up my giving. All I get is maybe new under ware, maybe something that I can use, but our real joy is giving a large donation to several food banks, help a young kid with a semester at the local community college, helping a unemployed professional pay their licensing fee for the year so they can still try to get work in their field, help a single mom get some safe tires on her car and get some basic maintenance on it, giving a generous anonymous gift to an unwed mom to be on top of your small gift. The feeling that I get from doing these things is far better that the feeling I get from anything I could ever receive. I truly feel sorry for folks that have never felt that deep joy. If folks had that experience, this argument on the thread would not be happening and those that profess their Christian faith would be some of the most generous people on earth.

[Hissyspit]

44. That really is good macaroni and cheese, though.

[Kurovski]

45. Merry Christmas, Bill.

;-)

[baldguy]

57. The best things in life aren't things.

[1American]

58. Bill Maher

Although the basic tenents of his comments I agree with, his manner of expressing himself with cuss words is a real turn off and tends to lose me after all is said.

Oprah Winfrey's give away is, cynically said, a tax write-off for her and a sudden tax burden for those getting her "gifts" which were probably donated to her by big corporations seeking good-will publicity.

I am convinced she does that for absolutely pure self-centered gratification, and, incidentally, to promote her new cable network.

An atheist myself ( I hate that word since it means "without god" which eventually means that one doesn't believe in a god which doesn't exist to begin with), I am a fan of Maher. I just don't like his language. It's not necessary, adds nothing to his comments, and gives the impression that his fans are foul-mouthed jerks.

I live in the South where the biggest (and fattest) hypocrites who cash in on religion live. I have yet to meet a true Christian--one who actually practices the religion--here yet. Most of those little old church ladies that you see going to church in their big white cars are about as Christian as the hair-dos and fancy clothes they wear to compete with the other little old church ladies.

And if anyone of you tries to give me that baloney about no atheists in fox holes---phooey on that. I have been under the knife twice and found no need for a deity. I did find the need for a talented and expert surgeon however.

[KansDem]

65. "...that baloney about no atheists in fox holes"

Truer words were never spoken!

I used to believe that tripe until I realized we were "in fox holes" because of other mortals, and if there was a just God, why did the greed and lust for power by these "other mortals" go unchallenged. Why would God want us blown to pieces for the wealthy, powerful few?

Having said that:
I have been under the knife twice and found no need for a deity.
...A couple of years ago I accompanied my wife for her colonoscopy. She was prepped and ready to go when the hospital chaplain walked into the room. The conversation went something like this:

Hi! I'm ________, the hospital Chaplain!"
Hi...
Do you folks need anything?
No, thank you...
(pause)
Is there anything I can do?
No, thank you...
(pause)
Well, if there's anything I can do, just let me know!
Thank you...
In the meantime, here's a brochure about services provided here at the hospital (hands us brochure)
Thank you...

I think she expected a little different response from us.

Oh, and the procedure came off without a hitch...

[bjobotts]

60. DUH!

[ProgressOnTheMove]

62. It truly is it's a wonderful world if our focus is always on the positive constructive things we can...

do for others than ourselves. There is no depression if our lives revolve around making others happy.