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Obama campaigns against spending freezes-"we need a Scalpel, not a Hatchet."

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:43 AM
Original message
Obama campaigns against spending freezes-"we need a Scalpel, not a Hatchet."
 
Run time: 02:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyr2noZ57Ww
 
Posted on YouTube: January 26, 2010
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Posted on DU: January 26, 2010
By DU Member: freddie mertz
Views on DU: 2028
 
Is this the son of Obama's flip flop to McCain's position on the excise tax?

I guess we will have to wait for the details.

But it looks like more of the same at first glance.

And a questionable policy shift, at the very least.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. OOPS I did it again?
Not sure yet...but..." Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens. "

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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's a chess move. n/t
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. but who's?



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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. that doesn't work in a game of Battleship
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. When he talks like a conservative, we all lose
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. maybe it is just a scalpel the size of a hatchet?

you know how labels are - they are so labely anyway
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Critics call Hatchet "Old School American Horror!"
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. is that republican or democratic blood I see - that is the question
:)
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Time will tell.
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. It is democratic blood for sure.
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 10:58 AM by TheEuclideanOne
In fact, the hatchet was swung by democrats too. Republicans can now just sit back and watch the Democrats bleed to death.
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ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. Another inflamatory reactionary post...
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 09:21 AM by ermasdaughter
He campaigned against an across-the-board 3% spending freeze. The proposal he's putting on the table is NOT(!!!) that.
Two different things folks....

Again, everyone needs to calm down. You've stopped paying attention....
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. curious if you can point to the parts of the post that are inflammatory and reactionary
I thought the poster was actually pretty forgiving in their comments about wait-and-see and such, but you have a different view and I'm curious about it
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ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Re inflammatory...
I just mean that the comparison of JM's plan and the current plan is not fair or accurate. Every progressive site is making this comparison - it's not helpful or true. I'm as pissed at Obama as the next progressive. But I think propagating headlines that are not accurate is not helpful and just serves to further inflame our already inflamed nerves.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. So you are saying, there are people saying it is identical?
Comparing the message is appropriate, helpful and if it takes into account what you say, there being more to the story, true as well.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I wrote that it looks bad, but we will have to wait and see.
It is true, I have some serious concerns about this policy shift.

So do a lot of people.

We can't just all hide under a rock thinking about ponies.



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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. true
'you didn't say I could ask for a REAL pony...'

I thought your original post was very forgiving and open to seeing the details while obviously placing the words uttered on more than numerous occasions in the spotlight as they should be.
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. false
We can think about ponies. At a certain point, there will be no point of recovery and we may already be there. Massachusetts needed to be a wake up call and every day it is starting to seem more and more like we are just not going to wake up. I would rather close my eyes and think about ponies than watch this train wreck.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Stop reinforcing the pony theme, please and thank you.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Right, McCain, across the board.
That would have been on the military as well? That is what across the board implies.

But Obama wants to have some hybrid McCain policy while preserving certain spending, excising other spending, but an overall reduction in a time where government spending needs to increase significantly?

Tell you what. Let's just zero the budget and let President Obama pick what we will spend on and he can dole out government dollars as he sees fit, so people will more clearly know who to send their campaign donations to.

I am pretty sure, President Obama is not a member of the legislative branch that is supposed to control the purse strings of the budget. Does he know that?

Listen, I don't even know if I am right about this. Speaking about the budget at this level is not my thing, I just don't know enough at the moment. I intend to get educated real fast though but something smells rotten in Camelot.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. I wouldn't call it inflamatory, but I would call it FUD.
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. No reason for anyone to have fear, uncertainty or doubt.
Absolutely none.

No reason to fear losing your family, home or job if you still have those things, am I right?

No reason to have uncertainty that Dem Leadership is in it for the 99%, average Americans.

Nope, no reason to doubt at all.

Must be nice.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm broke and unemployed, and I'm about to lose my home.
And no, it's not the fault of the Democrats. BUSH created this reality over 8 years.

None of this changes the fact that the OP, and now your response are nothing more than FUD.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. tridim, it was not only Bush. Unless you can properly identify
the causes of our current problems, you are helping fewer people than you otherwise could.

It is not about 8 or 9 years of Bush economic policy. It is about at least 3 decades of conservative economic policy. Just because a Dem does it does not make it right. President Obama is reinforcing conservative worldview and economic principles. Is that alright with you?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I wouldn't be alright with me if it were true.
Fortunately it's not.

I have an extra 20 week cushion thanks to the Democrats. The Republicans wanted NO EXTENSION AT ALL.

I also don't exist in a second great depression thanks to the Democrats. The Republicans wanted America to fail after Bush destroyed it. They still do.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. It is not about R versus D. The Dems control the House, Senate and White House.
And no kidding we are better than Republicans and more competent in ALMOST EVERY way, except guts, fight, and use of power.

The fight is over who will defend the middle and lower class, average Americans.

We Dems used to be strongly for the people and the message of who we were was clear, long time ago admittedly. Why do we have to use R's as a measuring stick ALL THE DAMN TIME.

We stand for the people or we don't. We have ideas we will fight for or we don't.

Your argument represents weakness and apology. I am sorry I have to say that, but I didn't want you to flatline.

The view you presented is really not far from mine, just seeing it from a different angle but as I see it a self-defeating one. I am sure you might see my view the same way, but I will risk it.
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ermasdaughter Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. I agree.
I'm as disappointed as anyone with the compromises but I think it's a huge mistake to turn on him now and risk letting the Repubs regain control. Constructive pressure is good. All this vitriol is not at all helpful or progressive.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. The vitriol you may be sensing is the clash of ideas for the most part
From my pov, we are identifying the areas of the argument where pressure would most effectively be applied.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. That started very early on
with the tax cuts (but no tax increases at the top kicking in at the same time, increases that were/are desperately needed).
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Absolutely true and if Obama doesn't let the Bush bonuses die
we are in for an even wilder ride.

The bar we should be talking are the Reagan bonuses.

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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Just 50% would be a huge step forward.
I mean, it's much closer to the actual middle ground of the historical top marginal rate. Although the bracket would have to be raised to kick in at a higher income level.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Has the administration EVER said they're not going to let the Bush tax cuts expire?
Why even bring it up? Just more FUD for your gasoline fire?
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Absolutely not without reason did I bring that up.
I was on the way to the doctor this morning and heard on Seattle Progressive Radio am1090 the hourly news cap which was full of White House slant about the SOTU announcement, YES IT WAS THE SAME MESSAGE I HAVE HEARD attributed to the Obama admin. They made a couple additional comments that irritated me to extreme but seemed to just be a part of the announcement. I will try my best to remember how it was precisely phrased but something like "the Bush tax cuts are very popular and unlikely to be allowed to end."

Tell you what though, I am glad you questioned it. I will call up the am1090 employee in charge of news who I have expressed my displeasure with before and ask her to either confirm it or stop the bullshit. Will not be the first time I have contacted them.

Know what though, I have a strong feeling it was accurate and reflects the Obama admin's attitudes. Won't stop me from raising a ruckus though, k, tridim.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Bwhahaha, that's awesome!
In a completely unintended way I'm sure. :rofl:

Psst, the media is not on our side. They lie CONSTANTLY. It's mind-blowing that don't you know that.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I know that. Have you contacted the media
when you heard bullshit or you just feel comfortable laughing at DU'ers? I keep hearing bullshit from the Obama White House. When the media says exactly what the White House is arguing that contains two statement that I even have the gall to question, you laugh at me? I don't even know some White House staffer didn't say it, I just had the nerve to question it. And most people would just assume the full stream of bullshit was from the Obama admin, but I questioned it.

I told you the source and it was only a couple hours ago and I am irritable at the moment and I may be misreading you but wtf is your problem?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. My problem is that you're spreading FUD based on a freaking radio newscast.
I have to laugh because it's such an insane thing that you admitted.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. tridim, I made one IF STATEMENT and I have always done my best to represent
Edited on Tue Jan-26-10 04:42 PM by Mithreal
myself and others with honesty even when it hurts. And tridim, I said "if Obama doesn't let the Bush bonuses die." Why does that bother you so much?

I admit to hearing an idea on progressive radio and that is funny, whatever. I treat your question respectfully and you mock me. I don't think you are interested in an honest discussion, go see for yourself who is advocating those "tax cuts" not end. President Obama would never listen to those people, would he?

SO YOU ARE 100% CERTAIN they will? We'll see and I believe without doubt that if they do let those tax cuts die, pressure from us will have made a difference.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. This is not contrary to his "scalpel" approach to the current so called "freeze."
:hi:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. People are growing weary of all the compromise talk
and nod and wink toward the conservatives.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. But this was part of his campaign platform. I understand the desire to see Obama say
we've tried to compromise with Republicians, but they're not interested so we'll move forward without them. But I don't understand the shock at his approach, frankly.

That said, I also want to see him get "tough" and lead with some passion. And that means passion against the obstructionists in the house/senate who represent corporate America.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. I appreciate what you are saying, this may be a counter argument.
Wall Street, the TBTF Big Banks, TBTF Big Insurers, PhRMA and the Military Profiteers have been given every consideration and comfort, not so much the middle and lower classes.

Now that it is extremely clear we are in a Great Recession or worse and are continuing conservative economic policies, cutting public spending should be off the table, but it isn't, is it. Not only should be not be cutting, but we should be talking another stimulus and fast tracking spending of dollars set aside from the last.

In addition, the President is reinforcing the conservative worldview that government spending is something that must be cut even during a recession. President Obama has conceded to playing by the conservatives' rules for Dems without so much as a fight.

The Two Santa Claus Theory also explains how Dems just walked into the Republican's trap.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Some might say he's beating them at their own game?
I think it's ok to govern smart, regardless of what Republicans say. It is smart to cut waste, though not to freeze spending.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Agreed.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Please see this thread
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. True, but reinforcing conservative worldview is what Obama is doing.
I am starting to think some DU'ers are more foolish than I previously supposed.

Is it that easy to sell compromise? If it is, then the message needs to be VERY simple. I won't sell compromise or betrayal, hope you all have enough corporate money to buy the votes next time.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Actually conservatives haven't balanced the budget. They "feign" a desire to do so.
:hi:
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-26-10 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. I absolutely agree. You must have misunderstood me, that's alright.
Here is a resource on Two Santa Claus Theory.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/26-0
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-27-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
47. Kicking.
There is still much to be learned about this policy.
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