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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:51 AM
Original message
Moyers Special Comment to Obama: "No more Mr. Nice Guy, Mr. President. We need a fighter."
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 08:55 AM by kpete
 
Run time: 05:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8IeZHZRwC4
 
Posted on YouTube: September 04, 2009
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: September 05, 2009
By DU Member: kpete
Views on DU: 13520
 
Transcript

BILL MOYERS: The editors of THE ECONOMIST magazine say America's health care debate has become a touch delirious, with people accusing each other of being evil-mongers, dealers in death, and un-American.

Well, that's charitable.

I would say it's more deranged than delirious, and definitely not un-American.

Those crackpots on the right praying for Obama to die and be sent to hell they're the warp and woof of home-grown nuttiness. So is the creature from the Second Amendment who showed up at the President's rally armed to the teeth. He's certainly one of us. Red, white, and blue kooks are as American as apple pie and conspiracy theories.

Bill Maher asked me on his show last week if America is still a great nation. I should've said it's the greatest show on earth. Forget what you learned in civics about the Founding Fathers we're the children of Barnum and Bailey, our founding con-men. Their freak show was the forerunner of today's talk radio.

Speaking of which: we've posted on our website an essay by the media scholar Henry Giroux. He describes the growing domination of hate radio as one of the crucial elements in a "culture of cruelty" increasingly marked by overt racism, hostility and disdain for others, coupled with a simmering threat of mob violence toward any political figure who believes health care reform is the most vital of safety nets, especially now that the central issue of life and politics is no longer about working to get ahead, but struggling simply to survive.

So here we are, wallowing in our dysfunction. Governed if you listen to the rabble rousers by a black nationalist from Kenya smuggled into the United States to kill Sarah Palin's baby. And yes, I could almost buy their belief that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, only I think he shipped them to Washington, where they've been recycled as lobbyists and trained in the alchemy of money laundering, which turns an old-fashioned bribe into a First Amendment right.

Only in a fantasy capital like Washington could Sunday morning talk shows become the high church of conventional wisdom, with partisan shills treated as holy men whose gospel of prosperity always seems to boil down to lower taxes for the rich.

Poor Obama. He came to town preaching the religion of nice. But every time he bows politely, the harder the Republicans kick him.

No one's ever conquered Washington politics by constantly saying "pretty please" to the guys trying to cut your throat.

Let's get on with it, Mr. President. We're up the proverbial creek with spaghetti as our paddle. This health care thing could have been the crossing of the Delaware, the turning point in the next American Revolution the moment we put the mercenaries to rout, as General Washington did the Hessians at Trenton. We could have stamped our victory "Made in the USA." We could have said to the world, "Look what we did!" And we could have turned to each other and said, "thank you."

As it is, we're about to get health care reform that measures human beings only in corporate terms of a cost-benefit analysis. I mean this is topsy-turvy we should be treating health as a condition, not a commodity.

As we speak, Pfizer, the world's largest drug maker, has been fined a record $2.3 billion dollars as a civil and criminal yes, that's criminal, as in fraud penalty for promoting prescription drugs with the subtlety of the Russian mafia. It's the fourth time in a decade Pfizer's been called on the carpet and these are the people into whose tender mercies Congress and the White House would deliver us?

Come on, Mr. President. Show us America is more than a circus or a market. Remind us of our greatness as a democracy. When you speak to Congress next week, just come out and say it. We thought we heard you say during the campaign last year that you want a government run insurance plan alongside private insurance mostly premium-based, with subsidies for low-and-moderate income people. Open to all individuals and employees who want to join and with everyone free to choose the doctors we want. We thought you said Uncle Sam would sign on as our tough, cost-minded negotiator standing up to the cartel of drug and insurance companies and Wall Street investors whose only interest is a company's share price and profits.

Here's a suggestion, Mr. President: ask Josh Marshall to draft your speech. Josh is the founder of the website talkingpointsmemo.com . He's a journalist and historian, not a politician. He doesn't split things down the middle and call it a victory for the masses. He's offered the simplest and most accurate description yet of a public insurance plan; one that essentially asks people: would you like the option the voluntary option of buying into Medicare before you're 65? Check it out, Mr. President.

This health care thing is make or break for your leadership, but for us, it's life and death. No more Mr. Nice Guy, Mr. President. We need a fighter.

more:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/5/777377/-Moye...
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks Bill. You nailed it.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good old Bill
Maybe his message would get out better if he yelled and screamed more.

Can you picture Moyers yelling; "Cut off his mic! Cut off his mic!"

Josh Marshall at TPM should write Obama's speech? Good call, Bill!

-90% Jimmy

MOYERS IS A NATIONAL TREASURE!
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. Here Is The Proper Plan Very Simply Explained To The Opposition By A Formidable Health Care Proponen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f9_dnx9ThQ It is verrryyyy simple when you are not trying to PROTECT THE GD INSURANCE INDUSTRY!!!!! :nuke:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. one of the last real journalists
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alterfurz Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. (as seen elsewhere) Confucius say...
Do not reach across aisle with remaining hand.
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jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bravo!
Thank you, Mr. Moyers, for carrying the torch for integrity in journalism.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Attention Obama administration and blue dogs, attention please.
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 09:32 AM by geckosfeet
You would be wise to heed Mr.Moyer's words.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. How can this administration not see that
further capitulation on health care is the same thing as paying ransom to terrorists? Talk about emboldening the enemy!
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Power in American
no longer responds to its obligations regarding the general welfare, the common defense, the blessings of liberty or to anything other than money. However, when power fears not responding to the needs of the majority more than it loves money there will be reform and not before. That is how representative government works and the only way it ever works.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. I am reminded of a part out of Sicko
Where Micheal More is asking this guy why the French have such a great system for health care and work and he siad...it is because in France the government fears the people and in the US the people fear the government.
And it is true.
They don't have to be afraid of us because they know we can't or won't do anything...seems to me we must change that.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
89. We have never stormed the Bastille
and that is the heart of the problem.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
115. Also for the most part I think the French are one people and as
such identify themselves as FRENCH. In America we have let the corporations and our politicians divide us by, race, religion, culture, income, urban, rural, where our parents came from, etc. This divide will last as long as we allow it to and we seem to enjoy the definition of the "other" guy as non-american and our group as "real" americans. I don't hold out much hope for that changing in the near future. I think the thing that the powers that be feared most about President Obama was that he could actually unite the people. But they shouldn't have worried about his ability to overcome their fear machine of the MSM and the fact that they could compromise him and his administration so easily.
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Teacher in SC Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
119. Sicko
Good point about the French. Earlier today I responded to a MM letter asking that he re-release Sicko with a new title more like the one he has chosen for his movie on the banking industry. I believe many people never saw Sicko because the title was all wrong. Many who did see it need a refresher.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. "Dang gum it:
Rasenfragel udgen fraagled eea!"

Quote from the Old Man in Blazing Saddles.

I think this post has the same intent and intensity that Old Man would have wanted, were he not just a comedic pause inside a great movie.
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Let's roll!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. Big K & R !!!
:kick:
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yeah for Bill Moyers. I hope the President is listening.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
57. Here's A Tune For The President... "WE Won't Back Down!" On Health Care
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF3dTsUs9ks Take the advice of someone who knows something about Health Care Reform Mr. President and Don't YOU Back Down!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. My God, how long have the Dems in the trenches waited for a true leader
who would take off the gloves and fight, no holds barred, for a righteous cause. Remember the Chicago way, remember "I don't do intimidation". No more compromising bipartisanship for Republicans who will vote against it anyways.

Obama, lose this fight for healthcare reform or settle for a watered down version and your administration will be a shadow of what it could have been. It's time to bring the Republicans down and to their knees and end their tactics of lies and fear.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
67. +1...Rec your post!
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. "We're up the proverbial creek with spaghetti as a paddle."
You nailed it, Moyers!
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. I hope Obama hears these words and acts on them.
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ut oh Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
90. As it's looking....
I don't share your optimism...

There's been many who've said we gotten head A LOT further down hill to turn it around... I'm beginning to believe it.

Obama sent a message of change and hope in his campaign and quite frankly think he did abandon it days after he entered office...

Sorry to sound so cynnical, but I really am not seeing the 'change'. It seems to be politics as usual.

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Paper Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Right on the mark, I hope someone has asked the president
to listen to this opinion. Simple and to the point.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for posting this.
I sent the link to the White House.

I'm holding on to the hope that Mr. President has been so softly-spoken on this issue over the last few weeks as a way of getting us to be more vocal ourselves, the old "Make me" style of politics. At least, I hope that's what he's been doing.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Same here
but one tends to wonder why take all this crap from the right? why let
them get away with blatant distortion and blatant disrespect of the
Presidency and outright racism. WHY?????
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kmac3 Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. K & R
Mr. Moyer has stated accurately my belief in what is necessary for this President to succeed with respect. Honor your campaign promises. "I will not accept a Health Reform Bill that does not include PUBLIC OPTION" We know the Republicans have already decided they will reject ANY bill presented despite the contents. The only alternative is to move forward without them. Quit mollycoddling these despicable poor losers and show the people you have a back bone and will represent their needs. You respectfully tried the bi-partisan method ... see where it got you!
Time to bring out the gloves!!!
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AusDem Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
73. you mean time to take OFF the gloves yeah?
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Bill Moyers has his Cronkite moment
As I watched this last night my mouth fell open feeling as though Moyers was sharing a Cronkite moment with us. I have never heard Bill Moyers speak this way. I always hear Moyers speak in terms of policies and actions, but last night he gave no mercy to the idiots on the right. He also was not delicate with the President.

I support the President, but this needed to be said. And when Bill Moyers calls you out, consider yourself called out on behalf of the majority of Americans.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
109. Walter is smiling looking over Bill's shoulder!

We need more to follow in Walter's and Bill's footsteps! We need LEADERSHIP America! People like Bill need to be elected to say "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

People say that we live in a "different historical context" and yesterday's solutions won't work today that FDR went for.

Some of that is true, but the spirit of taking on the main obstacles to fixing a problem, and not just putting a bandaid on them, has ALWAYS been the proper solution, and needs to be the solution today that Obama and the Dems need to employ. Yes, it will take courage, and it will need risk taking, but THAT is why we elected you, not to do the power monger's willing.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you Bill
especially for this line;

Poor Obama. He came to town preaching the religion of nice. But every time he bows politely, the harder the Republicans kick him.


Mr President, how many times are they going to spit on your extended hand??? :shrug:

Kudos to you Bill.... :thumbsup:
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
22. Thank you Bill! Truer words were never spoken!
:bounce: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :applause:
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
23. REC
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. Amen! Public Option OR The Corrupt Insurance Companies Win.
Bill Moyers :patriot: :yourock:
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. Obama pegged for who he is lol. Moyers for president, a liberal and progressive nt
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liquid diamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. You're delusional if you think a liberal will EVER be president.
Anyway, I appreciated Bill's statement. He criticized the president's failed bipartisanship efforts without being an asshole.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R. Beautiful. /eom
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. K&R Moyers is one of a few real journalists left in this country. n/t
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. Eloquent and to the point
Well done, Mr. Moyers.

:thumbsup:
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aquamarina Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
29. B.R.A.V.O. Mr. Moyers!
:applause:
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. I hope this gets to the ears of the President.
Just him alone in a room - just him and the video monitor. This is absolutely what he needs to consider.

And during this time Rahm should be sent off on an errand that will allow President Obama time to reflect on this by himself. I hope he has the fortitude and character to be single-minded about this. I mean, for god's sake, people are threatening his life. Being nice never placated anyone who threatened such violence.

Thank you Mr. Moyers for speaking such common sense.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:17 PM
Original message
Kicked and recommended.
 
Run time: 05:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8IeZHZRwC4
 
Posted on YouTube: September 04, 2009
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: September 05, 2009
By DU Member: Uncle Joe
Views on DU: 13520
 
Thanks for the thread, kpete. :thumbsup:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. I have no idea how Bill Moyers video ended up on my previous post above?
:shrug:
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. Well said Mr. Moyers. I caught the end of that show last night
and saw that part. I was upset because I missed the whole show, which I believe was about campaign reform. Really would have liked to see that.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
91. YOu can see parts of it or read the transcript here:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09042009/profile.html...

I missed it too. I attended a lecture on permaculture, which was good but I really hate to miss Moyers on Friday night.
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. Oops. I replied to your thread Uncle Joe instead of the main
post. That's because the video was there. As you said, you don't know how it got there. I thought I was back at the top and hit reply. LOL
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gopsucks1 Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. Suddenly everyone wants to be Simon Cowell. n/t
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I call it being a concerned citizen, which is something we should ALL be
nt
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
33. That was great
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SandWalker1984 Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. Mandatory private insurance is NOT health care reform!
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 12:41 PM by SandWalker1984
Neither is giving up a Medicare type public option to get pre-existing conditions covered by the insurance companies (who would be required to cover those people, but how high would the premiums be???)

Putting in a "trigger" for a public option is not only not reform, it's a corporate cave in of the worst type.

I found a post over at DK web site yesterday by Hunter titled "Your Corporate Bought Government" that said it better than I possibly could. He stated that the insurance companies agreed back in December of 2008 to covering pre-existing conditions if they got mandatory private insurance requirements for all of us in exchange. Here is a portion of that post:

This is likely exactly what we're going to see in a final bill. No public option. Weak regulation, in exchange for making it a United States law that every American has to buy the products of industry that has been unconscionably corrupt, a wildly profitable industry that has served as the defacto "death panel" of every American for the last generation. It would be like solving AIG's woes by mandating that every American give them several thousand dollars each year, or bailing out the domestic auto industry by making failure to buy a new car every year punishable by time in jail, or fighting organized crime by making the payment of "protection money" mandatory for every man, woman and child.

It is a stupid, asinine, corrupt, and spectacularly meanspirited proposal, which is exactly why our House, Senate and administration find it to be far less "controversial" than daring have government involvement with the physical health and well being of its own citizens.

It seems unremarkable to say that yes, the insurance industry would be willing to scrap preexisting condition denials -- in exchange for mandating that every single American in the nation purchase their product. That seems more than a fair trade, for an industry that values profits above all else. AHIP has been broadcasting television commercials touting that very point -- "if everyone is covered, we can make healthcare affordable" -- for at least the last month. And it seems obvious that our Senators, who are so beholden to the whims of lobbyists that they will do nothing, absolutely nothing, that it is not first proposed by those very same lobbyists, would eagerly go for such a thing.

Mark my words -- we are at the point where no legislation can be passed unless it benefits an American corporate sector more than it benefits anyone else. We are that corrupt, and our government is that beholden. No matter how hated an industry may be, or how many citizens of a nation it may have hurt, it will always receive the kind graces of the government that it has paid for.
*********

ARE YOU WILLING TO SETTLE FOR PRIVATE MANDATES AND NO PUBLIC OPTION AS HEALTH CARE REFORM?

ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE THE HEALTH CARE CEOS MORE POWER, MORE CONTROL AND MORE OF YOUR MONEY?

OR DO YOU THINK WE DESERVE BETTER?

Republican or Democrat, if they sell us out, WE ARE STILL SOLD OUT!

This fight is not just about health care, it is about we the people vs them the corporations for control of our Congress, our economy and our way of life. Those worried about socialism should take a long hard look at what the corporations are doing to our country.

I'm far more concerned about corporate fascism than socialism. You, as citizens, can vote out corrupt socialism but you cannot vote out corporate fascism once it takes over.
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Amos Moses Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Whatever "reform" they pass has to be "uniquely American".
:puke:
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kleec Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
52. This is
exactly what happened in Mass. and there were absolutely no cost controls put in place to protect the consumers and those that did not purchase insurance are fined. This happened when Mitt Romney was the Gov. and he was proud of it! The republicans showing their care and concern for the profit industry. We do not want anything to do with that! No way, No How.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
60. Excellent post, you should make it an OP.
I think you're absolutely correct that the Insurance Industry traded 'no coverage for people with pre-conditions' for having the government help pay for those millions without insurance and they weighed which would be more profitable.

I am certain the Obama administration latched on to what they believe will be a big seller with the people, that no longer can they be turned down for being sick.

I remember the Cigna Whistle-blower being asked what the industry felt about the over 46 million uninsured Americans. Bill Moyers was the questioner. I think he was expecting a response that would indicate whether they cared or not. The answer was 'they view them as a potential market'.

So, if this is what we get, it is what the Insurance Corps. could have only have dreamed of in the past. And the people will pay the Insurance Ind. over and over again. Once when they are forced to buy premiums, and again when their taxes pay for those who can't afford it, and once more when they are fined if they refuse.

This is not acceptable and I hope it is not what will be offered. It is the Mitch Romney plan. I know people who moved out of Mass. because they could not pay the premiums, or the fines. But if this becomes national, there will be nowhere to go.

If this is the plan, it would be a cynical betrayal of the people who elected them. But for the Insurance Corps who bought them, a bonanza. They didn't spend all that money for nothing.

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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #34
93. What is conveniently left out of your little tirade is the gove, "Mandatory" means
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. those whoe refuse coverage and end up getting ER treatment they can't afford must
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. pay a penalty for not having coverage so the rest of us end up paying the ER bill thru higher costs
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. It doesn't amount to much but is set up not for those who want but can't afford as they will be subs
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. subsidized but only for those who "refuse" to get HC ins coverage
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. Single payer would be mandatory if it were to include all even though it is not for profit.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. Priv.ins.will not get everyone through mandates unless they too are not for profit
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. something your comment fails to mention..not for profit mandates. Yours is fear mongering
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R Been saying we need someone to fight for us from the beginning.
Holding hands with thugs does not work.
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bluestateboomer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. He should be the Whitehouse Chief of Staff!
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #39
101. It's the WH chief of staff selling us out so to get ins.industry money for elections
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #101
102. trying to find some way to not piss off these profiteers so they donate only to repubs.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. That's why Rahm screams at the progressive caucus but praises blue dogs
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. Moyers response to this situation was excellent.Obama can't ignore it
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. We elected Obama to get rid of these policies nto compromise with them
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. Republicans should not even be included after the disaster they brought us.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #106
107. They should sit down and shut up and let the majority legislate unimpeded by failures.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
42. Obama is not playing nice - he is selling out to his corporate masters

Obama is not stupid. It is as plain as day that the Republicans have no interest in health reform or any other legislation that will actually benefit people. The Republicans sole goal is to destroy Obama, and regain their majority. Period. End of story. And, Obama damn well knows this...

He isn't playing nice. He isn't being 'bipartisan'. He isn't caving to Republicans.

He is selling out to the corporate masters that buy and sell elections.

Plain & simple.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
61. I KNOW that's what it LOOKS like, but maybe it's an elaborate game of CHESS!
:sarcasm:
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Krashkopf Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
43. We should ALL forward this to the White House
I just did!
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
44. This from Gentle Bill Moyers - One has to believe Obama has to start getting fucking tough
with the take advantage motherfuckcing corporate, fuck-the-people lying republican assholes!
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
45. k&r
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
46. it's definitely what we need right now.
when another party petulantly says no to everything, you need to stand up for yourself and others.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
47. As always Bill Moyers speaks for me.
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azureblue Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
48. President Obama- you know their tactics---
Keep you on the defensive, even if they have to lie and smear.
Attack you over anything, no matter how far out.
Make you apologize for anything they deem offensive (even though they have said far worse, many times)
Do anything to keep the spotlight off of them.
Try to cripple you by "death by a thousand cuts".
Bully, and bully some more.
Refuse to reason or use logic.
Pretend to want to meet you halfway, when all they want to do is water down or delay your agenda. They have not the slightest interest in bi- partisanship. It's all a lie.

When are you going to get a spine and some thunder? When are you going to stand up for America, and say "no more!"?
When will you call them out for what they are- name by name? Loudly. In public.
When are you going to tell America how the Republicans are accepting bribes, and how much per Gooper? And ask each Gooper to stand up before America and tell us why they accepted this money for their vote?
When, in God (ess)'s name are you going to put them on the ropes and hit them hard? You know how to play hardball politics. We know you do. It's time for you to hit back and quit being nice. They interpret nice as a weakness, and they have proven over and over to see nice, civil, reason, etc. as weaknesses.

President Obama, you are not playing a game with rational opponents. They lie to your face. They hate you because you are a successful black man, and, even more, a successful black man with the majority of America behind you, and they will do anything to turn this country against you. This ain't the NBA, this is Harlem ball, complete with elbows, hits to the face, and more. These are winner take all at any cost schoolyard bullies, and they will not respond to anything but brute force.

This country is back on the edge. This country's future and its return to a world leader, depends on you. You must win this- if you lose, you will have lost the rest of your term, and you will be a beaten man.

You know how to fight back. Let's see it. Now. Before it is too late. The longer you wait, the more they win.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. K & R!!!
:kick:

From one who is genuinely proud to have been a Peace Corps Volunteer beginning in 1964 after Bill Moyers was a Deputy Director there. He would likely still have been there when I served but for the JFK assassination. Among others during that era, he helped to set the standard for public service.
His words should be heeded. It's the right thing to do.

:applause: :applause: :applause:
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
87. Thank you....
Whenever I meet someone who has served in the Peace Corps it strengthens my belief in the spirit of goodness in humanity. It's getting more difficult as I get older....I've seen too much.

You just lifted my spirits.
Thank you for being you...


peace~
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #87
117. Thank you for being a believer!
There are quite a few of us now and we still stay connected, both nationally and through groups associated with our countries of service. The sad thing is that in some of the poorest countries of the world, Peace Corps represents the US's only investment in "foreign aid." In fact, the most expensive US "foreign aid" is military. Sigh.

http://www.peacecorps.gov/index.cfm?shell=resources.for...

I was one of the very fortunate ones who was able to continue my career in the international sphere. Where one has one's belief strenthened in the spirit of humanity is when one sees how many truly dedicated individuals from countries all around the world serve in humanitarian capacities, especially in some of the most desperate situations and often at significant personal risk.

I was also one of the very fortunate individuals who benefited from the idealistic visions of Deputy Directors like Bill Moyers and another truly wonderful individual called Warren Wiggins, for whom I also worked many years later. Sargent Shriver, JFK's brother-in-law, was wise enough to listen to both.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
50. "Times of great need, we are told, are the times when true leaders emerge...
and display the ability to separate fact from fiction and the courage to set aside political agendas for the sake of the common good. The challenge facing health care reform in the U.S. demands that kind of ability and courage from each of you..."

From the Canadian Union Writes Obama & Congress...
http://www.healthcare-now.org/canadian-union-writes-oba... /

K&R for Bill Moyers!

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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
51. K & R n/t
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Lena inRI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
53. (((((((((((((( B O I N G ! ))))))))))))))
. . .

THE TRUTH. . .TRUTH. . .TRUTH AT LAST !



LET IT BE.. . .

LET IT BE. . .

LET IT BE FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA !




:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
55. We have a winner!
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
56. "Malcom X" is on PBS tonight, Mr. President!
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
59. Dear Mr. President, please listen to this man!
Please listen to the majority of Americans who want a public option.

Please stop listening to the bullies on the right, and to the Blue Dog Dems. They only care about money. They don't care about us.

You said you cared about we, the American people.

It's time for you to step up and honor what you said.

It's time, Mr. President.

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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
62. Not
Anything to add to that, it says it all, now just get our so called leaders to hear it and believe.
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change_notfinetuning Donating Member (750 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
63. Moyers nails it. And to DUers who think President Obama is playing chess,
maybe you could let him know that this is not the time to take another pawn. Taking only pawns is an interesting, but unwinnable, strategy.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
64. We need Sherman's march through the slave states -nt
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
65. very well said!!
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
66. It's sad when a nice guy like Moyers has to tell the president to grow some balls.
I love Moyers he's the last of the old Cronkite style liberal reporters. Obama really does need to put his foot down with the blue dog and the conservative dems in the senate. But he probably won't and the result will be a weakened bill that does nothing and leaves out too many.
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harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
68. I hope Obama heard this - it was GREAT!
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 06:48 PM by harvey007
Bill Moyers knows how to tell it like it is...very eloquently.

President Obama -- are you listening?

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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R
Great commentary. It's a shame he had to give the president a pep talk on how to lead.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
70. K & R
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
71. Maybe Obama can find a fighter
in someone else...he owes Big Pharma. Maybe he could be good cop and let someone in the Senate by bad cop. Don't these people think? Develop strategy? I am so tired of dry powder.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
72. Very good nt
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
74. Absolutely Awesome
K&R
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
75. it's just interesting that none of the unwavering "fans" of the WH comment in support of this guy.
some people adore a tad too much the aura that is the very likable person we call President Obama.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
76. Wednesday night we will learn who is Barack Obama.
And can he keep his word at all.

Sadly, I think after eight months I don't think he can or will.

Bill Moyers is operating under the premise that Obama wants to do the right thing, but can't.

I think that can't lives on won't street.
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WyoHiker Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
77. K & F'n R!!!
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
78. Moyers was great his last time out on Maher's show too....
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
79. Maybe Obama will be himself and say
what he has always said



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soryang Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
80. Obama's waffling bipartisanship is a cover
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 08:36 PM by soryang
...for his role as a shield for the insurance industry as a major component of the hedge fund and investment banking sector. Just where do they deposit the hundreds of billions of dollars in premiums every year? The financialized sector has captured control of the democratic party. They're not giving up a red cent. When all is said and done this will be an insurance bailout bill.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #80
110. He still has the opportunity to use it as a way to get back on track too...
Edited on Sun Sep-06-09 03:37 AM by cascadiance
He's not been blatantly corporatist the way others have (though I'm losing that sense every day that he's held back from doing anything substantive).

He still has the opportunity to take on the special interests, and saying something like "We tried to negotiate with the other side in good faith, but they've not made any efforts to respond to us, so today the gloves come off and I'm doing the will of the American people the way our constitution demands me to", or something like that. On that day, perhaps he could fire Rahm Emmanuel, and do a number of other symbolic things to show that he's going in another direction that will reignite the base to work for him, instead of feeling brutalized and unmotivated to get off the sidelines to do much of anything to work with him, and instead speculating on how and when they might have to work against him to get things fixed. After that DELIVER on some big promises to show that he's not going to be muscled around by the K Street crowd any more. And if the media doesn't like it, then go after them with media reform legislation too!

Come on Obama, time is running out, but there STILL is time to do the right thing! Seize on this opportunity, don't let it go. Everyone will be thankful if you do!
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soryang Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #110
123. thanks for your response
I appreciate that you know what I'm talking about and I respect the fact that Obama could change course if he so desired. I just don't think it's likely, but I could be wrong. In fact I wish that I am wrong. In fact, I have concluded that he is totally corporatist. He is corporatist beyond my most depressed expectations. But still hoping for the best.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #123
124. I'd like to think that we could push him into a corner where he sees "divorcing" himself...
... from the corporatists as the only option to stay in office and be remembered as a decent leader of this country.

He might not have the inner fight and leadership qualities of FDR still, but if we can push him to the point that he doesn't have much choice, at least our country hopefully will get started down the right term before his term is up, and hopefully perhaps he might actually grow in to being a good leader with a heart to fight against the corporatists. The latter is probably too much wishful thinking on my part though, since as you note, I think he's showing his corporatist spots a little too much to think that it is all a masquerade for a "nice suprise" later. At this point there's no real evidence that he's going to have that inner revelation or "play his cards" later...

Like you said, we can hope. But perhaps either by threatening to start a new party or through other means, we can push him in a corner tighter than perhaps the corporatists have him in now so that he realizes he needs to change course to survive.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
81. This, of course, is from Lyndon Johnson's Press Secretary during the escalation of the Vietnam war.
That might have been a time to show some courage and fortitude as well, but I don't know...
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Ah the old GOP tactic. Attack the messenger.
For stuff that happened over 40 years ago.

Ted and Bobby Kennedy supported the war back then too.

Should we throw them off as well?
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Oh bullshit.
Edited on Sat Sep-05-09 10:19 PM by NNadir
Let's be clear on something too. The Kennedy's were no heros on Vietnam, OK?

Your black and white mentality is disgusting, frankly, so much so that it borders on fundementalism and hero worship.

I'm a Democrat, but not as an item of religious faith. One of the more famous Democrats who held the Kennedy family at arms length because they were way to conservative and right wing was Eleanor Roosevelt.

Ever hear of her?

If you want to know something about fucking history, why don't you open a fucking history book?

Or would you rather just do cartoons?

From 1965 until 1967 Bill Moyers job was to "explain" the escalation of the Vietnam War. As such he certainly has no right to moralize excessively about the President of the United States now.

Even Abraham Lincoln had to make compromises that seemed in his time - to many - as too compromised. That's why he's Abraham Lincoln.

If you wanted to elect the holy man Bill Moyers President, you should have nominated him at the convention and have seen how many votes he got.

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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #81
92. If only all public figures had the untrammeled purity that you possess
On the balance, given the good and bad things that Moyers has done over the past 40+ years, I'd say that he's well ahead of you, me, and pretty much everyone on this board in terms of trying to shine a light on those who would subvert democratic process for their own ends.

Purity doesn't exist, except in the minds of zealots. We're all compromised at some point in time. The important thing is whether we still strive, in the face of our failings, to become better men (and women). On that count, at least in terms of the 4th estate, Moyers has few equals.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #81
108. And look at how much he's grown and learned to be so progressive now.He's wonderful
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
82. thank god for Bill Moyers. one of the few journalists left willing to speak truth to power with the
moral and intellectual authority to pull it off. The great society is not just a dream.
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Serial Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
83. Nothing simpler... would you like the option of buying into Medicare before you're 65?
No thousand page bill, no amendments, no compromise, a simple bill that would have not wasted all the time these idiot who are supposed to be representing us spent the past 2 months! They are being paid woth OUR MONEY and they should listen to the answer to that simple question!

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archiemo Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
85. Thanks for helping me get through another day of frustration by offering
hope as I hold out for his speech before Congress next week.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-05-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
88. KandR.
peace~
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
111. Say Amen...
Somebody!
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truthrocks Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
112. WHICH PARTY IS RUNNING THIS COUNTRY?
WHY IS OBAMA ALLOWING THE CONSERVATIVES TO CALL THE SHOTS?

This adminstration needs to get SERIOUS about confronting the rt wing's blatantly anti-Amerincan rhetoric and actions against the President of the U.S. Press Secty Gibbs needs to STOP being CUTE and stop passing off the public debasemet of President Obama as "silly."

Yes, the behavior of the rt wing radicals is often so ludicrous as to be comical, but they have the flat-out support of most of the Republican party, letting the "crazies" do the front-line dirty work of beating up the very personhood of President Obama, along with the office the President of the United States.

This is disgusting on both sides: the perpetrators of these outrageous assaults and the refusal of the recipients to express justifiable outrage in response.

:banghead:
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #112
120. That's an easy answer -- the incumbency party (nt)
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
113. Why does Obama seem to disappear into the woodwork when things get heated?
What's up with that?
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
114. Ha!
Governed — if you listen to the rabble rousers — by a black nationalist from Kenya smuggled into the United States to kill Sarah Palin's baby.

:eyes:

Elect Bill Moyers.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
116. Good to hear theres still a voice of reason ,Thank you Bill.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
118. meanwhile, pukes gear up campaigns based on less gov't involvement in citizens' lives...
oh right, except for when they decree state religion, write the scripts for our "news-fo-tainment" shows, separate women from their bodies and commit us all to slave labor in the cubicles of their brazillionaire corporate sponsors.

It's less gov't involvement in corporate theft that they really want.

Sure hope our President sees this.

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tooeyeten Donating Member (441 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
121. Do it now
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zenprole Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
122. Outstanding
Kudos to Moyers for this extra-base hit in the late innings. I would only add that Obama's performance (if you'll pardon the pun) has been highly predictable. The disappointment and frustration at his administration repeatedly dropping the ball is misplaced at best. That some voices blame insufficient public support for his blunder-fest is astonishing.

Justice Brandeis once said there is no shortcut to evolution. 99 44/100% of our political system represents the long way around. Can we change? Here's to it.
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bdtd22 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
125. Get Doctors On Board for Universal Health Care
Let's just say it...it is doctors and insurance companies who are fighting universal health care because they are afraid of losing profits. Get Doctors on board by eliminating their need to pay $200,000 a year for liability insurance. I told my doctor this and she suddenly had a change of heart. And a big smile.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-07-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
126. Too late for a rec but not for one of these
:kick:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
127. kick nt
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