Posted on YouTube: May 14, 2009
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Posted on DU: May 14, 2009
By DU Member: Hissyspit
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MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show - May 13, 2009: Turley says the 2nd Circuit court previously rejected all the arguments used today in his announcement that the administration would argue that the photos should not be released.
Turley: "The problem with having a lot more pictures is that it complete disassembles our previous arguments about Abu Ghraib. We protrayed a small group of peoples as hicks with sticks. And we knew they weren't... What these other photographs indicate... the idea that they were rogue operators is obviously wrong, if there are hundreds of other photos where they weren't involved."
"I think that the ACLU will ultimately prevail, and maybe that's what the Obama administration wants politically, is to be forced to release these photos as a political measure, but by doing this, by putting in this fight, by reversing it's earlier statement to the court, it makes a mockery of the system, it makes a mockery of this country."
we need to get them out of Iraq and if anyone had cared at all about them, they would never have voted for this war.
If the US demonstrates to the world that it will now, with a new administration, aggressively go after those who have so shamed its reputation, that would do more to save the lives of the troops than letting the world now the US intends to sweep these crimes under the rug.
The world has been watching and waiting to see when the US lives up to its claim that 'we don't torture'. If anything will inflame those who already know the crimes of the Bush administration, it will be to lose hope that Obama is going to address those injustices.
Sorry, but that argument just doesn't work in the real world.
The rest of the world already knows that we torcher - after all, prisoners talk and they have families. This is about keeping secrets from the American peoplse so as not to embarrass our fearless? leaders. :mad:
5. I think Obama should have said he'd delay indefinitely the release instead of saying 'not' releasing
at least it would give him some cover - but I think he does want them out but will let the Supreme Court take the heat if they get out or don't get out. he's smart even if it compromises his integrity a little too often to be that smart and play chess with American ideals
6. I know I'm going to get drilled repeatedly for this, but...
...I agree with Obama. Outside being submitted as evidence in a trail against individuals from the former administration, I just don't see what good can come from opening this wound once again by releasing these photos. We all know what happened. Do we really need to live it all over again?
11. I concede the point, but it just seems to me that, by releasing yet more...
...pictures of what we already know went on there is only adding more insult to injury. If releasing these pictures allows the truth in its entirety, then I'm all for it. But, my sense is that we already know who was really calling the shots, we already know that this was more policy than "a few bad apples", and we know that Obama and/or Eric Holder probably have something up their sleeve. A couple of more things that have occurred to me:
1. Obama, by not releasing the photos, will force the ACLU to file a lawsuit for their release. A lawsuit they're likely to win. Perhaps that's his plan. 2. If photos similar to those we're already seen were released but taken in detention centers elsewhere, that would show the breadth of the problem and most certainly should be released. I just don't see the use in drilling more at Abu Ghraib when we already know what's down there.
At some point, somehow, in the minds of us all, there will come the personal realization that we were complicit. Therein lay the importance of our understanding, in it's entirety, of the depth and breadth of this. Our sentience is at stake, you see.
51. Yes, Agreed. Your second point really gets to the crux of it.
Edited on Thu May-14-09 09:40 PM by liberalcanuck
And Turley drove home the point I feel in the video quite well - that by releasing all those photos the argument that these acts were committed by "a few people" is totally obliterated. There are many criminals right now making decisions who were complicit in these crimes who've benefited from the cover of that lie.
I'm a huge admirer of Obama but I fear the ACLU is all we have left on this. I hope Obama is playing the long game as Andrew Sullivan has suggested but the cynic in me is very doubtful.
I am SHOCKED that soooo many people here have just bought the whole - it will endanger the troops - line from Obama. No, being in Afghanistan is what will endanger the troops. What is the goal there? Why are Dems OK with that war? It's NOT about human rights otherwise we'd have been in Rwanda and other various places in Africa. No, this is, once again, about oil. Yes. Oil. So another endless war for oil (pipeline this time - what's the objective in Afghanistan again?) where soldiers WILL die. Maybe these pics would be enough for the public to demand an investigation and might save us from a colossal clusterfuck in Afghanistan. Or maybe not. Regardless - I want the truth. Since when did we all start caring so little about knowing the truth?
who has helped keep this torture issue alive - it's really developed legs. Scapegoating a few low level grunts never did cut it. The Obama administration is being forced to deal with torture as it should, but I don't think they bargained for this much attention and this much light being shed.
It's not up to Obama to push for prosecutions or investigations. We have other branches of government to do that. The AG doesn't work for the White House he works for the people. The president must stay out of the way and let others get to the bottom of it. If he doesn't he'll look like Bush with Gonzales.
19. We don't need photos to tell us that people have been tortured.
The whole world knows that Bush and Cheney are guilty as hell. Cheney admitted that he and Bush knew and authorized detainees to be waterboarded. I do believe that releasing the photos may cause things to flare up and may cost the lives of some of our troops.
Then, the right-wing parrots will point the finger and blame the president. Look, I want everyone involved in authorizing, looking the other way and carry out these vile acts to be held accountable and prosecuted; Including some democrats who may have known. I say release the photos to the Congress and the Senate.
24. How did the last administration live with themselves it's icky enough now it's been handed to us.>
Edited on Thu May-14-09 04:13 PM by cooolandrew
I can part way understand President Obama's decision could be down to the flare up in Pakistan but this is all getting very messy. The truth is love, so the truth it must be. Love in the sense that you are honest to people you care about.
29. The defense contractors want to dictate DOJ policy
Turley is merely restating the law. Obama is trying to present the court with an impossible political dilemna. Repukes are against release, now dems are against release. We dare you to release these pictures. It's going to be a tough judge to order this, we need an American hero here.
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