Israel Bombs "SAFEHOUSE" It Told Civilians To Go To With 55 Children Inside!

[kpete]

Run time: 01:52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZeFJpHtyKU   Posted on YouTube: January 11, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: January 11, 2009 By DU Member: kpete Views on DU: 1499

 

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Do You Think They Purposely Bombed Civilians? nt

[The Doctor.]

2. They've been making very little effort to avoid doing so.

So either way, they're criminally liable.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. You Are Mistaken. They've Worked Hard To Avoid Civilian Casualties.

For example, see http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html.

Defending oneself against rockets and other things that are unmentionable on DU is not criminal.

You can reasonably argue that Israel is taking the wrong approach by attacking Gaza. However, there's no basis to say other than Israel is working hard to spare as many civilians as possible.

[The Doctor.]

10. Whether you can say that with a straight face is something I will probably never know.

Blowing up schools and safehouses can in no way be construed as 'working hard to spare as many civilians as possible'.

Obviously someone isn't doing the requisite work, and the command doesn't seem to be exercising restraint in the face of the fact that they've been killing many more women and children than they have terrorists.

I'm sure you have a reason, Mr. Goldstein, for turning a blind eye to the excessive measures Israel has traditionally taken, but the clusterfuck that is the I/P conflict cannot be considered even remotely symmetrical.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. War Is Hell

War is a last resort, to be used only when there are no other less-unpalatable choices left. You may argue that Israel should not have chosen this course to respond to Hamas' attacks and threats - I might agree with that. You may argue (and I'd certainly agree) that Israel is at fault for letting things get to this stage. However, but it is pretty difficult to argue that the Israelis want to kill civilians.

There is no way to have a clean war, free of civilian casualties, given the avowed Hamas policy of using civilians as human shields. Hamas is using innocents as shields. They are fighting from among civilians, dressed as civilians. Do you think the New York Times is lying when they report:

"Unwilling to take Israel’s bait and come into the open, Hamas militants are fighting in civilian clothes; even the police have been ordered to take off their uniforms."?

or:

A new Israeli weapon, meanwhile, is tailored to the Hamas tactic of asking civilians to stand on the roofs of buildings so Israeli pilots will not bomb. The Israelis are countering with a missile designed, paradoxically, not to explode. They aim the missiles at empty areas of the roofs to frighten residents into leaving the buildings, a tactic called “a knock on the roof.”? How much easier and safer would it be for the IDF to simply level the building?

Have you read the Hamas charter? Please Google it - apparently, excerpts of it are too inflammatory to put put on DU.

[The Doctor.]

15. Oh, I get your point. But the thinking is Neo-con.

One more time; You don't fight terrorism with an army.

That should be well understood by everyone on DU by now.

When the enemy does not obey rules of engagement, namely because doing so vs an overwhelming force would be suicide, then the overwhelming force must use a different form of engagement.

Hamas is winning right now because Israel has chosen the 'brute force' option. Had Israel attempted throughout its history to be a good neighbor rather than a force to be reckoned with (oh, I'm aware of the embedded interests that have consistently tested Israel), then it might have been able to survive without the largess of America.

Again, not even half the casualties can be counted as Hamas terrorists. That is by no means 'careful'. It's simply impossible to take the course of action the IDF has and claim 'delicate care'.

[eagertolearn]

12. I think your wrong there. I saw a woman being interviewed who was in

that house (and had just been rescued after several days of no one being allowed in to check on them) and she told the whole story. Wish I remembered where I saw this but it was terrible. It was like all the family members of one clan children, women and men. They were told to go in there for safety and then they started to fire on the house and they did over and over. It sounded terrible.

[arikara]

19. You forgot your sarcsasm smiley

Dr Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian Doctor trying to care for the injured in Gaza:

This cannot go on. Its a disaster.

Anybody who tries to portray this as sort of a clean war against another army are lying. This is an all out war against the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza and we can prove that with the numbers. And you have to remember that the average age of the Gaza inhabitants is 17 years, its a very young population and 80% are living below the poverty limit of the UN so this is a (*unknown word*) and very young people and they are able to escabe absolutely nowhere because they cannot flee like other populations can in wartime because they are fenced in and they are in a cage. So they are bombing one and a half million people in a cage. And young people, poor people and you know you cannot separate between the civilians and the fighters in such a situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnV33mYIJOM

[1776Forever]

3. Unfortunately it looks as though the soldiers were trying to help but the pilots didn't know.

I think this is becoming pretty obvious from other reports that there is chaos right now on the ground in Gaza. There needs to be a real ceasefire that will allow for some kind of help for the civilians before this becomes even worse then it all ready is.

Here is a report on the Moyers comment from Salon.com

Saturday Jan. 10, 2009 06:44 EST
Bill Moyers on Israel/Gaza

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/10/moyers/

(updated below - Update II - Update III)

On his PBS Journal Show last night, Bill Moyers delivered a poignant essay on Israel/Gaza (video on the site). The whole segment is worth watching -- it begins with coverage of a mostly ignored anti-war march this week in Washington (while media hordes, down the street, fixated on the Roland Burris circus) -- but Moyers' essay begins at roughly the 2:20 mark.

The most striking aspect is that sober, fact-based, even-handed commentary like this about Israel automatically subjects one to widespread, profoundly ugly accusations of being "anti-Israel" and even "anti-Semitic," to the point where not a single U.S. Senator and no House member other than a handful dare utter anything other than unquestioning support for Israeli actions, such that most members of the U.S. Congress are, literally, far more willing to question and oppose American military actions than Israel's military actions (the establishment discussion rules are virtually identical to those that prevailed in the pre-Iraq-war days, though even more rigidly enforced: one can question the efficacy of the Israeli attack from the perspective of Israeli interests, but may not question its morality, legality or justifiability)

(more on the site)

.........

One can only pray and hope there will be some real peace initiatives soon that can fine a basis for some kind of relief for everyone involved in this tragedy.

[leftchick]

5. I think it is pretty obvious

2000 lb bombs on schools, mosques, hospitals, so called safe houses, ambulances, aid trucks, press tv, not letting civilians in the line of fire escape, etc., etc. So many "mistakes". What do you think?

[Duckhunter935]

6. most bombs are not 2000 pound bombs

If they are unguided munitions there is the CEP to deal with. Really true in a built up area. Do not fire or store rockets or munitions in schools, mosques and fire morters around civilians. The stated policy od Hamas is to use human shields and they have done this in the past. This would help and the IDF is not without fault either.

[leftchick]

8. um, Gaza is a highly populated area

Probably the largest slum in the world. I heard one person describe it as making South Africa during Apartheid look civil. How the fuck could you avoid civilians in that atmosphere? Israel knows this and uses the "hamas did this or that" excuse to purposely target civilian areas.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Bombs As Small As 60-80 Pounds

"The bomb, which is very accurate, has a small explosive, as little as 60 to 80 pounds, to minimize collateral damage in an urban area."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html

[leftchick]

11. yeah, right

I find it incredible that americans defend this slaughter of innocents. WTF? Israel is the fourth largest military state in the world. Against a totally impoverished and immobile victim. What a fucking ruse.....


As night falls on the 15th day of Israeli offensive; 854, including 230 children, 90 women killed


http://www.imemc.org/article/58418


author Saturday January 10, 2009 21:25author by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC & Agencies Report this post to the editors

As night fell on Gaza on Saturday, the Israeli Army continued its illegal offensive for the fifteenth day, killing 854 Palestinians, including 230 children, 93 women, 92 elderly, 14 medics and three journalists. At least 3,681 Palestinians, 50% of them children and women, have been wounded, 500 seriously, Dr. Moawiya Hassanen of the Palestinian Ministry of Health reported.


On Saturday, Israeli shells killed eleven Palestinians, including several children, after the soldiers continued to pound several areas in the Gaza Strip. The latest three casualties were killed when the Israeli Army shelled a house in Beit Lahia, in the northern part of the Gaza Strip; ten residents were wounded.

Medical sources reported that among the slain residents were the following children; Salman Salman, and his brothers Rami and Abdul-Mo’ty.

Two more children, identified as Ali and Amer Al Nather, were killed, and their father was wounded along with ten other residents when the Israelis fired shells at a group of civilians near al-Sultan residential tower, east of Jablia, in the northern part of the Gaza Strip.

Medical sources reported that two children of the Al Hilo family were killed when the Israeli Army shelled their home in Beit Lahia, in the northern part of the Gaza Strip.

A fighter of the al-Qassam brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, was killed in Sheikh Radwan neighborhood in Gaza city, and a fighter of the al-Quds brigades, the armed wing of the Islamic Jihad, was killed in Beit Lahia.

In Rafah, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip, one fighter, identified as Ahmad Al Sha’er, was killed and another fighter was wounded when the Israeli air force fired a missile at them.

Six civilians of Abed-Rabbo family, including two children, two brothers and a member of Hussein family, were killed, and at least one resident was injured when the Israeli Army fired artillery shells at them.

The slain residents were identified as Hamed Mahfouth Abed-Rabbo, age 17, Yosry Mahmoud Abed-Rabbo, age 16, Ramiz Jamal Abed-Rabbo, age 38, Mustafa Ribhy Hussein, age 18, Sami Mohammad Abed-Rabbo, age 25, Randa Jamal Abed-Rabbo, age 45 and Sufian Abdul-Hai Abed Rabbo, age 47.

Also, the Israeli Army pounded with artillery shells the al-Sikka area, in the Jabalia refugee camp, and killed Daoud Ghanim Asliyya, age 37, his brother Ibrahim, age 40 and Ibrahim Mohammad Abu Hmeidan, age 60. The body of Mohammad Jaber Oleyyan, age 16, was found under the rubble of his parents’ home which was shelled on Friday at dawn.

[WhiteTara]

7. yes.

[baldguy]

14. Yes, I believe Israel is purposly targeting civilians.

After all, they're only Palestinians. Its not like they're humans.

:puke:

[Seldona]

16. Yes.

If they told them to go there, and then bombed them, what other conclusion can one reach?

Same with the UN school. They had GPS coordinates for goodness sake. How can they claim some sort of mistake?

[Loudmxr]

17. Here is how the IDF makes mistakes all the time. I was amazed to find this out.

In Alan Durshowitz's friday article he tells of a video he saw where Palestinians fire a rocket in front of ... lets say a school or something something with women, children or furry animals in it ... then run away.

Then the Israelis get the co ordinates and bomb everything that lives there into death.

The trick works every time. It fools the Israelis and they wipe out innocent women children and sometimes men too.

One would think the military would play them some Road Runner cartoons for training films or something. :smoke:

[KansDem]

18. Propaganda

...he tells of a video he saw where Palestinians fire a rocket in front of ... lets say a school or something something with women, children or furry animals in it ... then run away. So this whole act can be videotaped and the Israelis are oblivious to it?

It fools the Israelis I don't think the Israelis are "fooled" for one second.

The trick works every time. How many times must this "trick" work before the Israelis figure it out?

Or are you saying that, like Bush, the Israelis "got the intelligence wrong?" No, the Israelis are using terrorist tactics. It's obvious.